wake helmet yes or no

last week i was up at lake san antonio boarding and camping for the week. i was trying a ts 180 and over rotated and took a nice back slap and got a concussion, not fun. it scared the sh*t out of everyone on the boat. now im looking into a helmet

do they help alot? what brands are good. if you have one, say which one u have and if u like it

thanks

i think they do help in that sense. Especially if you go big and all

but i will say that i don't let my younger cousins wear wake helmets. To me, because they are small and don't go big, the helmet just adds extra tension and pressure on their neck when they do fall.

they help. alot. especially on edge catches.

This space for rent. PM for pricing

A Shred Ready or Pro-Tec that fits right. Shred Ready is adjustable too

I got a concussion because i had a helmet on

what do u mean the helmet made u get a concussion?

The fact you are wearing a helmet increases the surface area making impact a lot harder. I think that's right probably not.

(Message edited by homedawg678 on July 22, 2009)

i had to wear a helmet in a comp i rode in and i took a fall that i have taken a hundred times before and got a concusion from the helmet.. the extra surface area made my head slam

i don't think anyone gets a concussion because they have a helmet on. I think it cant hurt, especially if the board hits you. rails it is a must.

i never get an instant headache w a helmet on. without? most of the time. and shouldnt the extra surface area help you NOT get a concussion? if it was the size of a beach ball, the force would be even more spread out vs a ballpoint pen size.

If you got a concussion FROM wearing your helmet that is a crappy helmet.

I think that a lot of the time the padding in the helmet is not accounted for in this argument, if it didn't cushion the shock why bother having it? If the padding did nothing you might as well wear a baseball cap and call it a helmet.


BTW I wear a Protec on rails, they fit nicely, a bit expensive but worth it to stop your head splitting open. I didn't have any problem on falls when I was wearing the helmet but the boat is probably going faster when you're out riding and not hitting rails.

(Message edited by jtnz on July 22, 2009)

(Message edited by jtnz on July 22, 2009)

Plenty of bell ringers without a helmet, so far, none with. Protec here. Fit is crucial.

A helmet is only going to protect you from rails or your board hitting you. By this I mean it will keep you from getting cut or a gash in your head. A helmet will not prevent you from getting a concussion. You hit your head hard enough and it's over. A concussion is from the brain sloshing around in your head and even hitting the skull causing bruising. If you smack your head on something, something has to give, and it's going to be the brain surrounded in the spinal fluid. So IMO a helmet will not help I even agree with some of the arguments on here about more surface area. Because its not just hitting your head. As I said when you take a hard fall and your head hits the water, your head will stop, but because the brain is surrounded by fluid it keeps moving,thus causing a concussion. So the more surface area the harder the impact. So you could make a case for the padding in the helmet but IMO that just offsets the larger surface area of the helmet. I feel helmets are only good for rails and riders who don't want to take a chance on the board hitting them in the head.

Duffy, did you even read any of the other posts? They absolutely help. Personal experience doesen't lie.

You can't sit here and say that the padding in the helmets do nothing to absorb the impact from the water.....because that would be a load of crap. If you hit hard enough, even with a helmet, you can certainly still get a concussion, but the helmet will do wonders to prevent it....BECAUSE OF THE PADDING!!

It's like saying you can't tear up your knee if your wearing a brace. We all know that isn't true, but if by wearing a brace can help delay the process, then so be it.

From personal experience, I have had several concussions without a helmet, and only one while wearing it.

have u ridden with one? not including rails

Me, yes all the time!

"Personal experience doesen't lie."

Apparently some people are unfamiliar with the problem of induction.

Helmet is a must! They are 40 dollars. It comes down to how much your head is worth, They serve a purpose. I figured I wear one Motocross and track racing.

My opinion, for young kids and new riders absolutely mandatory on our boat. Pick up a board and swing it around. Now imagine what it can do to a head. Hopefully young kids and new riders usually will not be going fast enough to get a concussion with helmet on. Both are experts at face plants though. Two years age we had a adult newbe face plant. Her board hit the back of her head. When we went to pick her up it looked like a shark hit her. Twenty six staples and a cat scan later, half oh that vacation was ruined. If you bring your kids friends, put a helmet on them. Besides the safety factor, it's one phone call to their parents I woudn't want to make.

I can almost guarantee if I was not wearing a helmet last Sunday I would have a concussion !
I took two hard falls on my heel side edge and got chili whopped. Was dazed but still alright, Body is still hurting but the melon is good to go.

imo and experience, a helmet won't completely prevent concussions, but it will help to prevent most of them.

I asked some Neurologists and Radiologists that I work with the last time this question came up. According to them and the medical research they have done, they definitely help.

....since we have gone to helmets on my boat 3 years or so ago we have had no more head issues.The argument that the greater surface area will make things worse isn exactly true, for example I use the shred ready helmet scrappy....and although it is wider than my head it only occupies the top portion, also the helmet slopes back so it sort of hits the water gently and pushes the water away, its not like your hitting the surface with a flat surface like your forhead or side of head.

in general anecdotal evidence seems to say they work!

If Mike Tyson was going to hit you in the head, and you had the option to wear a helmet, would you put it on?

^^^^^I like your thinking psudy.^^^^^

No. Lame and unnecessary.

I don't go big but I found that when I have the helmet on, the helmet breaks the water surface instead of my forehead or the back of my head so it does not hurt as much.

Shred Ready...

Search for my posts and you will see my discussion on the physics behind a helmet. I think it decreases your risk of a concussion. In most cases, people who post about increased surface are are only seeing one side of the argument.

if an egg falls on a pillow, does it break? If an falls on concrete, does it break?

In short, the foam in the hemet INCREASES the time duration of the impact event, but greatly REDUCES the peak magnitude of force (or deceleration). If force = -k*x, where k is the the fluid membrane stiffness between your skull and brains, lower Force means lower x (displacement of said brain). Lower displacement means less chance of said brain colliding with skull.

I challenge someone to show me a physics based argument that proves this wrong...

The increased surface area is valid, but in many cases, as in my Protec helmet, there are large holes everywhere, thus reducing the surface area. I tink the math would show that the foam reduces the peak force more than the increased surface area increases it.

Dave Williams.... any word from myth busters?

-Uj

Never had a problem with a helmet on, fit is very important.
Shred Ready makes great Helmets.

I recommend getting one with ear protection

How many guys do you watch in wake movies wearing helmets behind the boat? How many clips of Rathy doing back 9s, Rusty doing 10s, or Danny doing 12s have you seen where they are wearing helmets? My guess is getting stacked on a 10 is worse than any crash one of us will ever take... and they aren't wearing lids. But... if you are gonna be lame and wear a helmet while not hitting rails, at least attempt to look halfway cool doing it:

http://www.shredready.com/

Tom is a friend and a great guy. His company makes some of the best gear out there and it pretty much all looks rad. I ride a Super Scrappy (see profile pic)... but only for rails ;)

my 2 cents...

it may help with a back edge but take a big front edge and it won't do anything what so ever..other than maybe choke you!! Unless you are wearing a full face motorcycle helmet, if "Mike Tyson" punches you in the face, a helmet will not do much!!

But hey, if you feel like cutting out 50% of the concussion chance then by all means were a helmet!

"How many guys do you watch in wake movies wearing helmets behind the boat?"

Dumbest argument ever. I mean, using Luker's line of thought, I might as well ditch my vest too when trying doubles like Chad.

(Message edited by joe_crawley on July 23, 2009)

Ok a vote for shred what helmets are you guys wearing???

luker.....i have also seen pros riding without life jackets......its not cool to wear helmets yet!?(especially in a movie)

many of the worlds best hockey players refused to wear helmets when they first started coming into the nhl.....didn't mean they didnt work

UncleJessie is is correct. But I have a senario where a helmet may be worse than no helmet. This could account for some people insisting the helmet is worse while others insist it helps. UncleJessie's agument is assuming a helmet that fits perfectly snug to the head, and so for the helmet to help i believe it must be fitted right. My challenge is this. If you face plant really hard nose first could the helmet act like a parachute does in air and slow the head down quicker? This may be a case where the helmet is no help or even harmful for two reasons

1. There is no padding to cushion the brain in the area of impact (the face is not covered by helmet and padding)

2. The head deceleration time is decreased making for a greater magnitude force on the brain slamming into the front of the skull and also cause more severe neck and spine strain.

You'd have to go in chin first, anything else and a properly fitted helmet will take the blow in the forehead portion. The way I see it of course..

http://www.shredready.com/products/standardfc.html

I agree with Uncle Jessie and Luke Power makes a great point. I'm surprised there isn't any official test data or study from any of the major helmet manufacturers to put a rest to the debate (or try to at least...)

I definitely think I look like a d-bag wearing the helmet, and I really don't like to, but after several good concussions, I don't want to chance it. I can't say that I've had a hard fall with the helmet yet to where I could try to compare with vs. without. We'll see I guess. I'm wearing the Shred Ready Super Scrappy (backwards).

Is this round 8, 10, 15 of the helmet debate? The larger surface area (neck injury) vs. slower deceleration with padding is always the central issue and haven't actually seen any data to conclusively support either side. Intuition and testimonials lead me to believe a well fitted helmet probably does more good than harm in wake riding but can't proove that point.

Mythbusters are you there????

(Message edited by bmartin on July 23, 2009)

i dont even know why i started reading this thread. same arguments same sides and no winner. /agree with mythbusters

Lets everybody submit this idea to mythbusters.... you can do that i assume

you dont see the pros riding with helmets

true but im not a pro nor do i get paid to ride. I dont get free boards, vests, boats , paid to wear and repersent my sponsors an get paid for vids.

In fact i have a job that i cant do hurt, and have o pay to ride, pay for my boat, gas , boards vest and helmet. If theres even a chance i can save myself from losing work time which means i cant ride or even worse pay my other bills i am going to go for it.

To each thier own. Its a personal choice why should we call someone lame for it?

Lame to me is doing something stupid

Luker... comments like that really show your maturity level.

I am 40, and Rusty is what... 26? I am 100% confident that a 26 yr old can handle getting whacked in the head a few times than I can. If I try a 7 this year at age 40, you bet I will be rockn the lid because I know I will get lit up and I know it will help my changes of not getting a concussion.

I have said this before, I have more respect for those who wear helmets than those who don't, regaurdless of their ability level, because of the stigma associated with wearing one. I know for fact, most people don't wear them because of how they look. I ride because I am addicted to the adreniline rush and high it gives me. I don't ride to look cool.

Being a mature adult means you make your choices based on what you feel is right, not what others think. I know the guys that wear the lids get shiat for it... and I respect them for wearing them anyway.


-Uj

I thought this was submitted to Mythbusters already?

I wear a Protec helmet and I believe if I didn't I'd have a few more concussions added to my hockey ones! ha

If your helmet doesn't fit you properly it won't do what its suppose to do, save you from a concussion and more pounding in the head! Meaning if its to big, if its been to tight, padding has wear and tear, Crack in the helmet, chin strap not strapped. I'm Not Saying AT ALL it's a 100% safe cause its not, but its going to help you more then not wearing one all!

UJ - Notice I didn't personally attack anyones comments on this thread... I just made a statement about how I felt about wearing helmets. What's really mature is a 40 year old commenting on the maturity level of 25 year old on an online forum ;)

Just giving my opinion is all... and my opinion is wearing gloves, goggles and helmets is lame. If your opinion is that wearing a helmet behind the boat will save your life... then by all means wear one. I'll still be one of the guys laughing at you. Everybody knows opinions are like a**holes.

"I'll still be one of the guys laughing at you"...nice... again as I said... showing your maturity level.

I hope you don't have kids so the cycle of ignornace is broken.

-Uj

"I hope you don't have kids so the cycle of ignornace is broken."

super mature comment. and what exactly is ignorNace?

you're argument/points/facts are that you don't see pro's wearing them in vids, and that they look dumb. How does that answer the question on do they help a lot (original post)? You have no idea whether they work or not, and honestly neither do I or anyone else, but you base your suggestion and opinion off of fashion. I don't wear one, my GF does now after taking a bad fall and having headaches, and I don't think she looks any different, and the coolest thing is I overheard some younger girl riders asking their parents for helmets after seeing her ride. It didn't seem lame to them. Also, I know it's required, but Pro's wear them during the Pro Tour heats all the time, and some don't even take it off for the D-up anymore, they also have a lot more experience crashing than most average riders.

Last year a family friend's 10 yr old daughter was slaloming (rip on it all you want), she fell a normal fall, hit her head on the ski, and had life threatening head trauma. She luckily is okay now, but every single person in that family (12) wears helmets, and this has passed on to most younger skiers.

I'm not going to post on maturity or anything like that, but please note that many people look to others for recommendations as this poster did, and people's kids will look to others for examples of how to do things (and even read here). Claiming that helmets don't work because they look lame, whether they really work or not, is not a valid argument or point, nor does it help the parent that is trying to keep their child safer and believes that a helmet will do a decent job.

Another great function of helmets are the ear protection option, as many people are beginning to have major problems injuring their ears on crashes.

IMO, everyone should have a helmet as an option, and no one knows exactly to what degree they help, but more than likely they will help decrease brain damage, which to me would be a lot more lame than looking silly.

Well said A-dub.

-Uj

The ear protection is a good point (might be enough to sell me on the helmet after I saw my brother rupture his eardrum and all the eardrum posts I have seen). So after all the debate and points made what does everybody think about helmets? After reading everything I feel like in MOST falls the helm will do more good than bad but there are still those odd ones where the helmet might hurt you(the face plant i mentioned earlier).

I think all of you should wear helmets because after reading these posts, you cant afford to hit your head anymore.

Me and Luke against all you guys, and we'll even let you wear your helmets!

Tampawake, I wear the Shaggy composite, with the bill to the back, you can ride it either way bill forward or bill back.

If anyone is really concerned about a concussion...they should also wear a mouthpiece (boxing type).

Where's that pic of the kid riding the Dirty D that had all the staples from a basic fall and just happened to hit a piece of debris? Yeah helmets are only for rails.

Sparky - I totally agree, if you are riding in a place with known hazards such as large debris the rail only comment doesn't hold.

I've taken to wearing a helmet with ear flaps in the past month and a half, and I personally have noticed that the nasty falls haven't heart nealry as bad in the head region, and it's made me more confident to start trying some stuff.

Boy I knew this thread would get messy.

I have had 8 concussions from wakeboarding in my 15 years standing sideways on the water, my doc says that in line with a Pro Hockey Player. They have been a mix of mild and sever concussions, two that required hospital stays, I have been told most of them were likely from sever whiplash cutting the circulatoin off to my brain causing me to black out. The fact is I have had concussions while wearing a helmet and concussions while not, wearing a helmet, almost a 50/50 split.

I chose not to wear a helmet when wake riding, I ALWAYS wear one when jibbing or doing any other stupid antics on my board. You only get on brain, be smart about it.

I don't think wearing a helmet when riding really helps out at all. I always wear one when hitting rails, and of course when riding cables since its mandatory anyways. But wearing one when just wake riding doesn't do much in my opinion. I've had multiple concussions riding too, 1 that put me in the hospital and I think if I was wearing a helmet, the concussion would have been the same because of the whiplash effect like Andy mentioned. Sure, water feels like concrete when going big enough and crashing at a high speed, but it does have some give to it, where hitting a solid object like a rail with your head doesn't give at all.

"You only get on brain, be smart about it."

Andy nailed it. I'm definitely in this for life. We sometimes get riders on our boat who can't land a stock HS FS 3 who think wearing a helmet is lame. They are clueless to the fact that they suck and that is the lame part.

not being able to land a HS FS 3 makes you lame.... aww I suck. Its alright I would claim that while I suck I am not lame because I know that I am no good and have no issue with helmets.

i wish i could find andy's post re: helmets a while back.

"Andy nailed it. I'm definitely in this for life. We sometimes get riders on our boat who can't land a stock HS FS 3 who think wearing a helmet is lame. They are clueless to the fact that they suck and that is the lame part."

So much for newbies trying to learn or just going out and having a fun day on the boat with you and your friends..."

By Joe Umali (dakid) on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 12:18 pm:

i wish i could find andy's post re: helmets a while back.


Way to call me out. At the advice of one of my sponsors I dont give many opinions on helemts, beside wear one all the time on rails and suck.

just a joke man.

brant - mouthpieces work to reduce force comin from you chin (ex. and uppercut punch) so for most crashes i dont think it will make much of a difference

andy - how did you get your first 3 concussions helmet or no helmet? because research has proven that after 3 your chance for another one increases 75% so that may skew the 50/50 argument. If that happens to be the case of course

i see this as similar to a football helmet. Certain helmets help to reduce the risk more than other due to the padding and shape but no helmet can be completely concussion free. so in MY opinion if the helmet fits right it will help reduce your chance of concussion but if it doesn't fit very well then perhaps your better off not wearing one.

Also, yes in some occasions the helmet may cause more damage than if you didnt have one, but also in some car crashes the person involved was injured worse because they were wearing their seatbelt but we still tell people to wear them. Maybe a stupid argument but i think it makes sense

Umali I know your were joking! HAHAHAHAHAH Dont worry it takes more than that to make me cry!

Caleb,

First two with no Helemt; 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th with a helmet, the latest two without a helmet. And my Doc (who is the Head Doctor of the US Ski team) told me the same thing, that after 3 concussions you get them fairly easy. That being said, I can tell you that a lot of it had to do with me not understanding the physics of the sport as well as I do now. Back when I was getting a string of concussions, 4 in one year, I was really hucking, Not really know what would work and what wouldn't work. I had no real instruction, I was the best rider in my crew, so learning was massive amounts of trial and error, with little to know coach, besides my buddies saying things like, "dude I think you need more air." For Example, I knocked myself out twice learning Batwings in one month, I did have a clue how to get in that position, so I just tried it over and over and over again. Now that I am far more advanced, I understand the physics of the sport and can learn tricks with far less ball busting slams, because 90% of the time when I hit the wake I know if I have the pop and pull that I need to get the trick around.

I dont know how much fact is here, but there is a point in wakeboarding when it suddently clicks, and you really start to understand the physics of the sport, how hard to cut, how and when to pop, where to put the handle, how much line tension, how to stand at the wake, etc. It just gets easier to learn things. My friends say that it's learning to drive your board not letting your board drive you. I think its all about physics and muscle memory, once you have the muscle memory a lot of the pain is taken out of the sport.

whew! i thought i pissed you off again!

Andy I couldn't agree with you more and right now im kinda of in the same boat you were i got concussion number 3 in April from football and number 4 in June from wakeboarding then took a pretty hard fall last week and now im debating on riding the rest of the summer since one more concussion and its no more football ever and since wakeboarding doesn't help pay for college im not sure what im gonna do so im looking into the helmet thing since ive never worn one

Rails = helmet a must
Wake = no helmet for me
you can never be too safe though...

"if you are gonna be lame and wear a helmet while not hitting rails"

^I just had to say wow after reading this...



As always, some good arguments for and against, but based upon my own personal experiences I'm going to have to say that a well fitted wake specific helmet will help prevent concussions on most types of falls dealing with blows to the head on water. I wear one when trying unfamiliar new tricks.

I know when I ride I like to have the following;

-Football helmet w/full face mask
-mouth piece
-Elbow pads
-Knee pads
-Cup
-Shoulder pads
-2)USCGA Vests
-Chase boat w/my primary care physician aboard
-And my lucky charm necklace
-Oh yea because I live in Florida I bring an Alligator Wrestler who jumps in the water with me every time I fall just in case.

You just cant' be to careful out there when doing this sport.

I have never had an injury wearing all this. It's a little awkward and heavy but worth every pound of protection.

Currently I am working with engineers at NASA and up and coming wakeboard Companies to develop a Hans device for wakeboarding.

I believe in safety first-

^LOL - Thats how I feel about some people around here.

I started wearing a helmet skiing after a friend cracked his head open crashing into a rock. Only about 20% of the skiers/boarders wore them back then. The following year a good friend of my daughter went head first into a tree without one, crushed his skull and died. Now it's well over 50% with the kids leading the way and only the "old school" old f@rts you mostly see without them.

When the pros all start freeriding with them they'll start becoming more mainstream in WBing IMHO. Seems like serious concussions are becoming more prevalent with the bigger wakes, longer lines and higher speeds.

I ride a board constructed 100% out of foam, so any injury from board to head contact is very slim.

"I dont know how much fact is here, but there is a point in wakeboarding when it suddently clicks, and you really start to understand the physics of the sport, how hard to cut, how and when to pop, where to put the handle, how much line tension, how to stand at the wake, etc. It just gets easier to learn things. My friends say that it's learning to drive your board not letting your board drive you. I think its all about physics and muscle memory, once you have the muscle memory a lot of the pain is taken out of the sport.


andy.....knows how to wakeboard .....once what he says comes to your mind....things really change!

but it also shows that wakebaording takes years to master on your own.....but with instruction you can progress faster and prob. safer.

Rich - "When the pros all start freeriding with them..."

Keep holding your breath on that one ;D

At this point most pro's dont even rock lifejackets all the time, I dont see them wearing helmets any time soon.