Fins

I know jeff is into fins here are some I found .

Cool JL, although what is that last one! I like the Nomex or Nidacore that Futures is using on those clear hex. Especially the new Vector II SB's.

Thanks for sharing!

I'm a big fan of the hand shaped plywood fin.

LMAO

Saw this over at RFC. The airplane vortex is what Show sees towards the end of winter after he hasn't ridden in 4 months.

Jeff shouldn't you be working on someone's taxes?

Ya, about a month away from riding.

James found these on the Futures site. The, as yet unavailable, Elevon - with...Wings?

craaaazy one

Isn't that Elevon just weird, Petr? I do like the Carbon/Kevlar hybrid fabric they are using, though.

We picked up a pair of the Black Stix 2.0 and got a chance to ride them...still slow in trim, not as slow as the first iteration, but slow.

However, true to it's predecessor, once you start pumping, they come alive.

I like hybrid fabric too. I guess that James is flying higher this year. What about to shoot some video Jeff?

That last pic is what you call f'n boost.

Saw this clip over at wakelounge of James that you posted. Unreal.

http://www.wakelounge.com/video/194/James-Walker-Wakesurf-Aerial

I put the 3/2/1's on my ja mako yesterday and it was awesome! The board felt a little slower put pumping and carving it would zoom forward! Tons of fun

Hey rhawn - Thanks! I couldn't remember posting that, but Ed over at wakeboarder.com took care of that for me. I like this picture of James. He's liking this compsand better than the board above! Go Figure. The off axis aerial is tough and tends to reduce height.

Duffy - the 3/2/1's are an interesting fin aren't they? They don't trim all that well - well, not any better than an sb1, but when you turn they take off. The Scimitars have a little less squirt than the 3/2/1's but are ON all the time. Those trim faster than any non-VII based template.

They are very weird feeling, but I think I could get used to the speed and drive.

held a pair of the elevon at the last surf x , not the same color

So speaking of fins, I've got the stock fins in my Walker Project 5.0 Composite X. Is there a fin that will give me more speed?

And are the two pics of the 3/2/1 the same fin? Can't be.

In the picture above, the fin on the right is the Hatchet trailer for a thruster fin pod. The fin on the left is the rail fin and there are two - left and right.

Faster fins...I'l try and NOT be verbose, but if you can imagine we have a "fin box" in the boat - it's a small tackle box that we have filled with fins.

There are a few types of speed. One is squirt or drive - that is the acceleration from trimming to some increased speed with a single pump. The 3/2/1's have that squirt or drive. They don't trim all that fast, but pump them and they take off. Another type of speed is how fast they'll trim. If you've ever looked at an Inland board they are the kings here - straight up and down and straight ahead - more vertical and less toe will typically give you more trimming speed, at the expense of lift and turning ability.

Lastly is speed through a turn. The 3/2/1's and Scimitar's have variable cant angles I think the Scimitar's go out to 18 degrees. The greater that cant, the longer the fin will hold in a turn - probably more than we can ever get behind the boat.

The Scim's and 3/2/1's have a good amount of squirt and turn on at slow speeds. I like the Scim's alot. We played with the Black Stix 2.0 and those trim marginally, but REALLY snap with a pump or two...they have more drive than either of the two fins I mentioned earlier.

Brewkettle mentioned that I got more drive out of the SB1's 4.00. I've not experienced that, but it could be a function of lift. The cant in the fins causes lift, which can help release part of the rail of the board AND make it feel faster. If you're on the edge the weight limit for your board a bit more cant CAN make the board feel faster down the line. This lack of cant is also one of the major limitations on some of the mass produced boards. Without the lift, a heavier person loses speed pretty quickly as the rails sink.

So...my recommendations would be the Scim's first, the 3/2/1's if you're surfing hard and want that squirt.

So I failed on the lack of verbosity attempt, huh?

Are those are for a quad fin board? Or do you put one type on each side?

I'm definitely on the heavy side of my board @ 6'5" 240, are the Scimitars are a better choice than the 3/2/1 because of the lift?

I'm sorry I was clear about the fins in the picture. That fin set with hatchet fin trailer is for a tri-fin more commonly called a thruster set up. So there is just the one hatchet fin on the centerline of the board at the back and then the two rail fins further forward.

Exactly right about the lift and Scimitar's. IMO, the Scim's offer a bit more lift and trim slightly faster than 3/2/1's. The 3/2/1's are explosive but a bit less drivey if you are pushing the weight limit of your board.

1 more noob question. Will running just the rail fins on a twin fin board like mine still produce the desired results?

are these fins for custom boards only? Can fins like this be put on say a Liquid Force Custom board? Thanks

@rhawn - sure will.

@james04 - The LF Custom uses through bolts for a wakeboard fin, so these fins won't work with that particular board. These fins are manufactured by Futures Ocean Air and require a special fin box. There are a few production boards (meaning non-custom) that use Futures fins, most notable are the Shred Stixx brand. However, you'll mostly find them as one of the fin box options when ordering a custom board, like you suspected.

Hey Petr,

I finally got some video. I don't know how to edit of splice or whatever you folks do, so there are just 5 short clips.

http://www.wakelounge.com/video/383/James-Walker-riding-the-compsand-3

That's a good one - shows James doing that frontside 3. The others are 1,2,4 and 5. I think they are:

http://www.wakelounge.com/video/381/James-Walker-riding-the-compsand-1

http://www.wakelounge.com/video/382/James-Walker-riding-the-compsand-2

http://www.wakelounge.com/video/384/James-Walker-riding-the-compsand-4

http://www.wakelounge.com/video/385/James-Walker-riding-the-compsand-5

(Message edited by surfdad on May 31, 2009)

Ordered the Scimitars, can't wait to see the difference.

Finally rode my Walker Comp with the Scimitars in it today. Completely threw me off. One of the problems I had is carving down the wave from like a slide or a weak air attempt, is I would get shot out into the flats too far to recover, in a hurry. Getting back after falling a little behind in the wave was near impossible as well. Needless to say. I spent alot of time watching the wave ride away from me.

I also felt like I was getting pushed a whole different direction from the wave, wierd.

I've got some learnin to do evidently.

I have some Scimitars and rode them pretty much all last year. I like them a lot, for me they're a little looser but still give you decent drive. I've been riding my Black Stix this year. I've been working on airs and they've given me that extra boost.

I just need to get used to them I would guess, any tips on how are appreciated.

Well you have to pump Scims to get them to come alive as far as drive goes and you'll get use to them being a little looser but thats just a matter of feel.

The 321's are similar but to me are less stable. They do have a ton of drive though. I need a smaller center fin for my ja mako, right now we don't run a fin but I would like to have a tiny bit more stability.

Blair,
What size sidebites were you running before the Scimitars. Going from 3 1/2" SB1 to 4.51" Scimitars will make the board much stiffer. The board will respond when you ride it harder ( more aggressively).
You just have to get used to the bite.

I could definitely feel the drive off of a pump. But they ride way different. Tricky.

My set up this spring was a composite x with scimitars. I could go back in/behind the curl and pump my way up for airs no problem. Maybe you weren't pumping enough? With the feeling of getting pushed away maybe lean I your toes more and use the edge of the board for control as well as the fins. It is a good combination of board / fins, hope you can get it to work for you!

funny ones
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iKvhtBenrJY/SeRkyuX-7dI/AAAAAAAAC5s/5wQhbkk9Vgk/s1600-h/10-3.jpg

Another noo-b question. Just had my new IS Sweet Spot delivered. Fins, flat side toward the center of the board?
Thanks!

Yes and also the sweep or the rake of the fins, pointing backwards towards the tail.

Thanks Jeff. The board came with a large set and a small set of fins. I read on here a lot about everyone changing fins. Overall, what should I expect going from: all 4 - large outside, small inside; to just large outside; to just small outside. Should I even mess around with running either size only in the inner boxes?
I have been riding for about 2 years now and have a pretty good feel, but have never had the different fin options until now.
Thanks!

You're going to regret asking me to talk fins!

In short, I'd mix and match just so that you can get a feel for what each fin size and location does. It's a slow process, but having a feel for the depth/base length and location can do wonders for adding more fins later to fine tune your ride.

In general, quads offer more drive because there is more fin base. Most folks will talk about the depth of the fin being the drive component and that's wrong. The depth has a correlation, because most fins grow both in depth and base length. The depth provides stability or hold. My favorite image is to think of two yard sticks on the bottom of the board - plenty deep but they offer no drive, instead they prevent the board from rocking rail-to-rail and would actually slow the board down by increasing drag so much.

In general, drive comes from the length of the base. The one thing to remember about depth though, is that pushing a fin hard enough and it will fail - that's the tail slide we all love to do - basically the fin is failing. More depth, more hold...so you must have enough hold to pump the board, or you just slide out.

I think that in general we can say:

Front fins that are too big, or too far forward, can make the board feel overly responsive They will feel "squirrely," and lack adequate control. This "might" be the case with the large fins inboard as IS moves that fin box forward.

That might be what you want, but my guess is that it will effect your timing. I'd start with the largest fin set you have on the outboard boxes and the smaller of the fin set on the inboard boxes. If the board feels over-finned, remove the inboard fins.

For getting a feel for your fins and the locations, I would test them in this sequence, just one set in the boxes indicated:

1) Small inboard
2) Small outboard
3) Large inboard
4) Large outboard

You should notice the difference in hold and drive.

Hope that helps!

Perfect. We are going out tonight. Now I have a plan.

Thanks for the help and I will report my findings.

HR

Jeff,
Went out last night and this is what we thought.

4 fins - lg outside sm inside - Stuck like glue, a little slow but easy to pump right back up to speed. Very solid.

2 fins lg outside - My favorite, loose enough to slide around a bit, fast, easy to pump up to speed, able to drift way back and then catch back up.

2 fins sm outside - Way too loose. I could barely get out of the water, sliding all over the place.

We ran out of time to test any fins in the inside position. Guess we will have to go out again...

Thanks again.
HR

I think that a twin fin is probably the fastest board, everything else being the same. Thrusters and quads add extra drag but different levels of control. Good job on the testing!

Are there any really small fins for my comp 1 rears?

I think that in terms of quad rears the shortest is the 340 and the smallest base is the 375 pivot. If you get the natural composite, you can take a bench grinder to 'em and shape any size you want.

Futures has all their Quad rears here

Does your Comp 1 have the 1/2 inch depth box or the 3/4 depth?

I believe that the SB3, which is 3.25" deep, comes in a 1/2 trailer - no cant and double foiled, but that could be used in the 1/2 box if you bought 2. If your board has the 3/4 depth trailer boxes you could possibly use the SB3 side bites.

Futures page for the SB3 is here

I believe I have the 1/2 deep boxes. I could just shave some fins down or just remove them. The quad gives me so much drive but at a price of making the board feel locked down!

You might try that board as a twin. Often times folks report that the trailers actually slow the board down as it adds a considerable amount of drag. That, no doubt, would require you to work the rail more and not rely on the fins so much.

The FLIP side of the above "report" is that the extra drive comes from that locked down feeling - all of the energy goes to pushing the board forward, unlike a twin where some of that pushing can get lost if the tail slides.

I firmly believe that there is no configuration faster than a twin, everything else being the same. However, quads and thrusters offer different (better?) control mechanics.

I wanted to check on one other fin for you. Turbo Tunnel offers a really small side bite - 2 3/8" base and depth I believe. I'm not sure what box they fit in, I believe it's the 3/4" depth rail boxes.

Yeah, I can't tell if they come in different depth, I believe that it's only the 3/4" depth which doesn't work in the 1/2" depth box, the notch for the set scew in in the wrong place and there isn't anyway that I can see to sand the "grind" the bottom of the fin base to make it work.

The TT Side Bite's are here