1984 Supra Rider Ballast Fun!

Boat is a 1984 Supra Rider (almost identical to a Sunsport) w/ Chevy 400 small block, 13x12.5 3-blade prop. Manually adjustable wake-plate.

Hey everybody! Finally got some good weather here the past few weeks so I've been getting out to the lake once in a while.
I've been adding a little more ballast each time I go out. (Mosly random stuff I find laying around. Hehehe!)
Last time I went out my impeller broke before I could get a set in so I didn't really get a chance to test-out what I'm running with. (Wake-plate is adjusted up about 1.5 inches from level.)

So far this is what I have:
Fixed weight:
I put 3 old cylinder heads under the center floor in the back. I'm guessing about 45# each. 3x45=135#
I have 5 75# sand bags in the very back corners (3 port and 2 starboard.) 5x75=375#
I found an old differential carrier with gears. LOL! About 30#. By the cylinder heads. 1x30= 30#
I also found an old lawn tractor weight and stuck that up under the bow on the port side. 1x40= 40#

So total fixed weight is about 580#. (165 center/aft, 150 starboard/aft, 225 port/aft, 40 port/bow)=580#

Water weight:
I bought some 6-gallon water jugs that fit under my rear seat (1 port and 1 starboard). 2x48= 96#
2 more 6-gallon jugs under the bow (1 port and 1 starboard). 2x48= 96#
I also rounded-up a couple 5-gallon buckets for in the back (1 port and 1 starboard). 2x40= 80#
I like to fill the cooler all the way full with about 10 gallons (center/bow) 1x80= 80#

(Currently 176# bow and 176# in the back) So far total water weight is about =350#

So right now I'm at about 950# total. (23% Front to 77% Rear, and 60% Port to 40% Starboard.)

For you guys who have weighted Sunsports and Riders, what kinds of ballast moves effect the wake in which ways?
From my understanding, you're supposed to put all the weight in the rear, then add to the front until the wake cleans-up at you desired riding speed. Is that right? Also what kinds of adjustments effect the "rampiness" of the wake?

I know there have been quite a few threads on this and that, but most of those are on the newer Supras. I noticed that most the newer v-drives use way more weight up-front. With my engine sitting right in the middle, I'm assuming there should be a large bias towards the rear. Would love some input please!

I dont have asunsport but have a 2000 Supra Launch DD so its close.. I put nearly approximately 2500lbs in her for nearly 11 yrs with not many issues..

I have a 1100 lb bag that maybe holds950 discounting air and space limitations up from under bow playpen area, then another 200 on the front bow seat .. In then have all other weight way back 300 in trunk, 300 under back seat( stock tank) 350 on back seat and 350 bewteen seat and engine box..

so near 2300-2500 .. all forward and back.. i tried early on with around motor box etc etc nothing created wake like this one and i really really like my wake..

bill

The ratio is usually 40% bow 60% rear. More weight in the rear makes a steeper wake. More up front will make it rampier.

ive also got a 2000 dd launch, i run the axis bow sac(like 950-1000 lbs), a 750 on each side of the engine, and the rear 500 tank, so almost 3k total and the wake is awesome, but the boat is about maxed out there

shawn i dont think our back tank is 500 lbs but i could be wrong..??

Thanks for the info guys!

bcrider; what do you mean by "rampier"? You mean not as steep but still "big"?

Just got back home from the lake. We ran a couple quick sets after work today.
Keep in mind I'm still learning to jump so I don't need an OMG WTF huge wake.
With the weight as I described it in the first post (roughly 950# + my GF driving, 2 buddies, and 2 kids in the boat) the wake still seems pretty small to me.
It doesn't seem very steep either. When I get a decent jump going, I can clear the wake pretty easily. If I cut-in fast, I end-up landing in the flats a few feet. Right now I'm probably getting about 2.5-3' of vertical according to the people in the boat.
I think I would like to steepen-up the wake more and make it bigger. Basically I would like to get more vertical air without cutting-in super fast and landing way out into the flats. Part of that should come as I get more consistent with my form and popping with my legs too.

I'm riding at 65 feet and about 20mph. (Speed could be off because my speedo is pretty inconsistent.)

I'm thinking about putting about 300-400 lbs more in the rear locker. That should steepen-up the wake some and give me a little more vertical lift right?

Thanks again for the input guys. I'm glad there is a forum like this where I can learn from people who have "been there, done that".

what have you done with the wake plate? I have my 86 sunsport stock.... no ballast.... i find the wake plenty big for now. Good to see you on here.
try this link
http://www.wakemakers.com/shop-for-wakeboard-ballast/ click on step 1

Rampier: meaning there is more of a transition going up, less steep. The size of the wake won't really change, just the shape.

Thanks Dave! That's what I thought you meant.

Am I right to assume that I will get more vertical air from a steeper wake?
I assumed that I wanted a Rampier wake at first because I though it would be a smoother transition and easier to jump without getting thrown off-balance. I think now though that I would prefer the wake to be steeper because I think I will be able to get the hang of-it with practice.

Obviously more skill is worth thousands of pounds of ballast, so I'm not too concerned with a LOT of weight. My main concern is just figuring-out how to get the shape I want and keeping it consistant from ride to ride so that I can progress more easily.

Jamie; Thanks a ton for that link! That's very helpful!

You guys are awesome. Feel free to give me some pointers about form and all that stuff which will make learning to jump easier/more-consistant.
I feel like I want to concentrate on getting good, smooth, big air consistantly before I start trying spins and grabs.

I was told the stock rear tank is 450 or 500 but I could be wrong?

Steep vs Rampy wake is also a preference. Some like steeper and some like a rampy wake. I have only reall rode one other boat that had a steep wake which was a Nautique which are known for this without a lot of bow weight. For a beginner I think a rampy wake would be easier to learn IMO as a steep wake can buck you in to the air = off balance.

Yeah, that's kinda what I figured.

In my mind, it makes sense to me to taylor the wake to my goals and learn how to ride-it.
It's not like I'm trying to make it super-steep. I just want it to be steeper than it is currently because I feel like if I start popping with my legs a lot I'm just gonna end-up further into the flats. I'd like to have the option of comming-in with less speed (not as hard of a cut), pop hard with my legs and still be able to land on the other wake. Good vertical air, decent hang-time then have a soft-ish landing. Then if I'm feeling gutsy I could still charge the wake hard, do a little less pop with my legs and get out into the flats.

I'll try to get some pics and/or videos posted after this weekend.
Thanks for all the advice thus-far guys! Keep it commin.

Here's a pic we took last night.

This is my buddy Sam behind the boat. This was his first time, and he did a pretty good job!

Wake-plate is about 1.5 inches up from being level with the bottom of the boat.
About 950# of ballast distributed 70% rear 30% front. Myself driving, another guy in the back seat, my GF in the observer's seat, and 2 kids in the bow. So that's about 600# of people basically centered in the boat. I was going a little bit slower than I ride because it was his first time and I didn't want him to have a hard wreck when he went down. Speed's probably about 16-18ish.



It looks pretty good right there but we are going a little too slow. When I ride about 20-22ish it flattens-out some more and gets narrower.

Originally Posted by fizzz

I was told the stock rear tank is 450 or 500 but I could be wrong?

Could be.... but not in an '86. Tanks? what are tanks? lol

Hey guys!

Got out this weekend for some more fun.
I put a big sheet of plastic in my rear ski-locker. I then filled that with water.
BAM! Instant fat-sack!
I put about 6, 5-gallon buckets in there, so that's roughly 250#s.
I also put a little 10-gallon rubbermade tote under the rear seat for another 80#s.

Total weight is probably about 1400#s now.

As I said, I'm still learning, but WOW! When I got it right, the wake was awesome, and I was catching some pretty decent air (for a new guy).
The wake was a little steeper/bigger than before and gave me some nice vertical lift without cutting too hard and ending-up in the flats.
Now I just need to get the spedo working right so my poor GF has a decent chance of keeping the speed steady.

You do realize that some ebay sacks would be pretty cheap right?

Originally Posted by williamburell

You do realize that some ebay sacks would be pretty cheap right?

Yeah, I've been looking for sure.

I'm still trying to figure-out exactly how much weight I want, and where I want it before I start investing in sacks.

Also, this winter the top-cap is comming off the boat and I'm gonna try and re-do the floor and stringers. I have some plans for sub-floor tanks.

So far pretty much everything I'm using for ballast has been free though, so I feel like I'm doing alright. Got about 1400lbs and have spent about $40.

You do realize that some ebay sacks would be pretty cheap right?

theres deals all over for the straight line bags and the 750lb fat sacs are dirt cheap right now. You Might just want to ask around on weight setup but I'm going to say putting that much water in your boat and not in a secure sac isn't really bright man. So what happens when you bust that "liner" holding all that water in your locker? Just seems like too much crap weight to me. By the end of the season you'll prob burn the cost in gas from not being able to empty sacs if you are cruising at all

Originally Posted by williamburell

theres deals all over for the straight line bags and the 750lb fat sacs are dirt cheap right now. You Might just want to ask around on weight setup but I'm going to say putting that much water in your boat and not in a secure sac isn't really bright man. So what happens when you bust that "liner" holding all that water in your locker? Just seems like too much crap weight to me. By the end of the season you'll prob burn the cost in gas from not being able to empty sacs if you are cruising at all

Thanks for the concern. If you saw my boat, you would probably understand why I'm not concerned about water leaking into the locker. That's actually how I drain it when I'm done. The locker has several holes in the bottom, so when I'm emptying ballast I just pull the plastic back and let the locker drain into the bilge. From there the bilge pumps empty it into the lake. Takes about 10 min to empty the ballast and I fill it with a 5-gallon bucket so that takes about 1 min. I know it's "un-conventional", but I had to test it somehow to see if I even wanted weight back there. Low-budget and boating don't really go well together, but I'm doing my best to have a good time and get a good wake in the process.

I know there are a ton of people in the boating world who don't even bat an eye-lash at spending $100 on sacks, but for me $100 = 3 trips to the lake. IMO 3 trips to the lake is worth way more than a ballast bag that I'm not even sure I need.

To give you an idea about what kind-of set-up we're talking about here:
http://www.supraboats.com/bbs/showth...84-Supra-Rider

Next season, I will have a better idea about what sizes and types of sacks I need. Until then, I'm planning on holding-off on any more purchases. Sacks aren't gonna make me ride any better, I just need to spend my $ on gas for that.