sticker shock

I have been reading what people have been paying for new boats and been shocked at how high of prices people have been paying. I have infront of me a bank loan value book which shows the bank what the lowest, average, & highest retail values of vehicles are so they know how much people should be paying for things. Example the 2004 MC x-2 has a high value of $47640, thats with every option. A MC x-star has a high value of $64630 again with every option. I know that demand can drive prices up but reading that people are paying 55-60 for an x-2 and 70-80 for an x-star seams ridiculous. The last time I was at a local MC dealer I could get a pretty loaded x-2 for 39-40 and a completely loaded x-star for 64. Just my two cents worth.

I figure higher prices are good, it means fewer boats for you average johnnnny and better water for the rest of us.

Yes JT the average johnnny can't get a tournament boat, so they go out and buy a seadoo and we still lose, LOL.

for every high priced boat there are many cheap ones....

39 - 40 loaded X2???? where?

We were giving some thought to the SV211 at the Triple crown...until they told us it was 58big ones out the door. I guess I need to save a little more!

Eric

Matt,

I bet the x2 is used. If not, please tell, I could use a good investment with quick turnaround.

Jason,

To answer your question more directly, some of us do make a lot of money (obviously). For most of us its a matter of priorities. Most boats can be bought with a ten year loan - or even longer. You can finance 40K at 6% for $450 per month over a 10 year term. With some prioritization, many people can own some of these fancy-dancy boats.

talltigeguy, I understand the 10 year loan, I just don't see too many people who have been buying new boats in the past 4 years keep them for longer than 3, maybe it's just the market up here, but I can't imagine getting a new one with out paying off my old one first. as far as the x2 prices, one of the dealers I visit regularly( I won't say which one because I am working on picking up a new x2 from and getting a deal) in the midwest has x2's priced in the low 40's and I know some people(ie my neighbor at the lake) have picked one up for 39. maybe I should buy a bunch and resell them down south or in CA

39K? Base boat no options not even a stereo is possible for a left over 2004.

You do realize when looking at a bank loan book (I assume you are referring to NADA) that those are USED values not new (even 2004’s as the 2005 model year is now). I have yet to see a $60K X2, but I have seen new MCX X-Stars sell for $65K...$370 not bad depreciation for a ski boat.

Ouch,
Why would you want a 10 year loan on a boat? So you pay on it for 3 years,pay virtually nothing but interest(kind of like a really bad credit card),then sell the boat 3 years later and not only suffer the depreciation loss but all the interest paid to own it those 3 years? Let us not forget your down payment.... Appears to me the winner is the guy who buys the boat you are selling especially if you took excellent care of it. Has anyone done a hours vs cost comparison? I know to some folks it does not matter but if you are taking a 10 year loan so you can reduce your payment amount to afford it, hopefully you are putting a lot of hours out on the lake. Think about it this way
$50K boat
10% down = $5k
10 year loan at 6%, monthly payment appx $450

You put 100 hours first year and pay $750 for the required services. This equates to nearly $100 an hour to be on the lake for the first year. The following years are unknown due to depreciation of the boat.

Just some thoughts......

My brand new leftover 03 was $33k loaded.
$0 down, 15 years at a tick under 6%.
A driving force in me buying this boat, is the high price comparables. The percentage of wakeboarders that qualify for a loan like mine, let alone a $60k loan is marginal compared to the guys that want to buy a boat. If the boat prices level off now, and you can't buy a new wakeboat for under $40k, the majority is going to be looking for an immacualate 4-5 year old boat. If you can buy for under retail, and stay ahead of the loan payoff, then your golden when its time to sell. There is a payment every month, and you will lose that money, but a boat is NOT an investment, its a toy that comes with expenses.
DK

acutully the 39000 boat was purchased this spring with most options, but tbi engine no heater or shower. just a good deal.
Dan - i agree with you on that these boats are really just toys, too bad most of us end up spending all our money on them, but it's worth it

Since I see the actual MC invoice I'd call it more than a "good deal". "Below cost" would be one term that springs to mind.

Funny how these posts go...the vast majority of people on these boards buy, sell and trade in a very narrow range ...yet apparently by your post the dealers and customers (selling used boats) in the "west and south" are killing it. If this regionalized price gouging were a reality why wouldn’t some enterprising individual by 10 boats from various dealers in the Midwest and go make $10K a piece in the west and south? $100K a year gross profit for selling 10 boats…I’ll leave the key under the mat and you can have this place, there’s gold in them there hills!

(By the way I am copywriting this idea, so if you start doing it before me you will have to pay me royalties. I already called the Invention Submission Corporation)

39-40 is pretty cheap for a loaded X-2, but you can definitely get one with everything for less than 45. If not, then your local dealer is hosing you down good. They must be able to smell money.

X-2's have definitely gone down in price since the new X came out. A couple of years ago I think 50-55 was a reality, however I don't think they come quite as loaded as they used to unless ordered that way.

(Message edited by guido on August 26, 2004)

Evan, you're not going to find a loaded, or even semi-loaded X2 in California for $45K, unless perhaps it's a left-over, or you own a dealership.

I just watched a used 2004 Red X2 identical to mine sell on ebay for $46K. I paid $48 for mine brand new!

Anything over $50 seems too high to me though.

As for the people who are bringing up the ten year and fifteen year boat loans here's the best way to look at them. You get a 10-15 year loan at 6%. $300-$400 a month payments. Make payments over the monthy payment and pay off principal. This way if you make payments of $500 to $600 a month you put approx. $3000 toward principal a year. Turn around and sell it after 3 years and not lose your butt on paying off the remainder of the loan. This is a feasible way for many people to get a boat when they can't put 25% or more down on it.

Joe ~ My buddy bought his 04 X2 from California Skier in May and paid $46k before tax and license. He has every option but inner cooling and a shower.

Sorry I didn't clarify. I was speaking of out the door pricing. 46K ends up more like 50K out the door.

yeah that would make a difference

Jeff,

To put it in perspective, if you get a 120 month bill and %6 interest, the first payment is $200 interest and $244 prinicipal for $444. After 3 years, the principal balance is down to $30,400. You need an amortization calculator to see it, but because %6 is a pretty low interest rate, you can actually keep up with the depreciation by making your monthly payment.

You ask why wouldn't someone pay it off? Not many people could afford to. The bank gets rich for loaning you the money - in the example above you've paid $16K in payments and have only gotten almost $10K in equity. The bank made 6K for loaning you the money for 3 years.

Jason - what has helped in recent years is that boat values have held up very well, so in the example above the guy could sell his boat after 3 years for more than he owes, and start over his 10 year bill with a new boat for a similar payment. Definitely not a wise financial investment for the future, but it works for the moment. That's why it seems there are so many folks out there who can afford such expensive toys. They won't have any equity when they are 45 years old, but...

TallTigeGuy,
I agree with you. I was really commenting to the people who feel compelled to roll over boats every 3 years. The entire time they are slowly going underwater. I know these, like other toys, are just that TOYS. You buy them for fun and when purchased the thought of actually taking it to the full 10 years does not sink in until the first of 2 or even 3 books shows up. Sadly the bank is rolling in the $$$ as is the boat dealer. Boats have soared in prices. Some to the ridiculous level.

You are correct with your data, you can get close to paying off balance at the 3 year mark if the boat holds a solid resale value.

This is all about priorities. Some sell the store for the now and having nothing but serious debt for later. Short of paying cash for it, I think the best way is to buy it through an equity line on your house(if you have equity). At least you get to write off the interest. For the one guy that goes the distance in the loan, can you imagine what he paid for the boat and what it is worth at that time....YIKES......

I got a 2003 o Hrs. in May for Maristar 230. With the 350 HP, tower 4 speakers, amp, lights trailer and everything the x-30 comes with except ballast and PP. Out the door about 50,500. CASH.. How does this sound, it was down in TSR..(Texas Ski Ranch)

The 10 and 15 year loan programs add flexibility to the payment schedule for people. We have many customers that double and triple payments (deducting from the principle on the overpay); however if they have tight month or two they can make the minimum due.

You also have to keep in mind the buyer who could pay cash but may be better off to finance because his money is working harder (i.e. earning greater interest) in some other financial instrument.

A realistic down payment in the best way to make sure you are in an equity situation at time of purchase. 100% finance is a game of Russian roulette, if something comes up and you are forced to sell…well you get the point. Understand that your down payment is the price you are paying for some level of comfort. The old saying holds true…you gotta pay to play.

I agree with Zedz Dead. I put $8000.00 down on my Centurion with a 12 year loan. I could sell it tomorrow and have some equity in it. However, I have still lost money but at least I can get out something and not totally loose my _$$. I hope to have it paid off within the next year or 2 in which at that time I will probably get a new one. But I think the same as Talltigeguy if you really don't get ahead upfront it will eventually catch up with you. Although I love Mastercraft, I don't think I could ever bring myself to spend 60K on a boat.

Jason, I see you live in Eau Claire, WI. I used to live right near Pewaukee and Oconomowac. an extremely small town called Hartland I dont know if you know where that it, but we had a boat up there. You can't justify any cost of any new boat up there because you only get to use the boat 3 months out of the year. We had a sea-ray up there for three years and put 49 hrs on it. We've had a Malibu in SC since may, and we're at 95 hrs. All i'm saying is that people that live in warmer climates can justify spending more on a boat because the season lasts longer and they get more of their moneys worth.