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Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-19-2015, 9:39 AM Reply   
Credit where credit is due... I applaud Obama for this.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...-ban/27547527/

I'm a firm believer in a clear line between our police and our military. My blood boils every time i see local police and sherriff's deputies decked out as if they were just helo-dropped in from afg. or iraq.

The fact that we need a policy that explicitly bans weaponized aircraft, grenade launchers, bayonets, etc is insane. I think the more access to this type of equipment they have, the more likely they are to find a "need" to use it.
These pics are from the recent Waco incident.
In the 1st, what is the neck scarf for? to keep the desert sand out of his neck?
In the 2nd the Marine digi-cam? so he can blend in w/the SUV's and Trucks in the parking lot?
In the 3rd is that Delta? SEALs? oh wait, you can faintly make out the "Police" banner on his chest under his 3 day kit... cuz you never know when he may have to survive on his own for several days until his QRF/Exfil shows up. their looks on their faces is like, "Man, I'm so glad I have an excuse to play dress-up today in this neato gear I got from the army surplus store"
And yes, I feel the same way about the Baltimore, Ferguson, as well as the Cliven Bundy standoff.
Cops should look and act like cops. Yes they should be able to protect themselves and the public. Body armor, yep. Automatic rifles, sure. Should they be playing weekend warrior insurgent fighter 101st Airborne, Ranger wannabe's, hell no. And our ACTUAL military should certainly not be used as a local domestic police either.
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Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-19-2015, 3:37 PM Reply   
Agreed. What is the justification for that camo? Ridiculous.
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       05-20-2015, 1:07 AM Reply   
As much as I can't stand that blood sucking flip flopping America sellout rat we have in the white house.
I agree with this decision he has made.
Old    Jeremy McNulty (RiverRatA20)      Join Date: Aug 2013       05-20-2015, 5:07 AM Reply   
Keep flipping my burger Snyder.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-20-2015, 10:09 AM Reply   
huh?
Old    bigdtx            05-20-2015, 1:10 PM Reply   
Totally agree. When we had that "terrorist attack" here in DFW a few weeks back (aka the two idiots from Phoenix who pulled up to the front door and opened fire, only to be quickly eliminated by one guy who actually knew how to shoot), the "swat team" showed up in full cammo, full auto weapons, wireless com and video links - I thought I was watching "zero dark thirty" again.

Garland is a small suburb of a major city - why the hell are the cops wearing cammo? I'd laugh if it weren't so sad...
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-20-2015, 1:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Keep flipping my burger Snyder.
You misspelled 'doughnut'..
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-23-2015, 8:54 AM Reply   
I was caught in the middle of that mess. Happened to stop there during travel. I just assumed that whatever happened that the military was called in. It wasn't until the next day I realized it was just the local police.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-31-2015, 8:12 AM Reply   
You don't think the police need MRAP's???? Freedom hater. Hahahahahahaha

Obummer makes me sick to my stomach, but I do agree with where we're going on this one.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-10-2015, 9:09 AM Reply   
Then there's this from the search for the escaped convicts...
It's not even a terribly effective ghillie suit. Shouldn't he at least attach some of the naturally growing brush from the area? I bet he woke up very excited that day knowing he was going to get to play dress-up.
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Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-10-2015, 10:10 AM Reply   
Yeah.....2 convicted murderers, possibly armed, creeping around in the woods. How bout you grab your board shorts and a good ol' 6 shooter and go bring 'em in. Oh, and if they shoot at you, make sure you only shoot them in the leg, or maybe just shoot the gun out of their hands. They do that on TV all the time don't they?

We get it, you don't think cops need to have better weapons and equipment than the bad guys.

Why anyone would choose law enforcement as a career in this age of "hug a thug" mentality escapes me, there is no way to win.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-10-2015, 10:16 AM Reply   
And all you guys bagging on the camo.... Tactical gear traditionally comes in black or camo.... Most departments can't afford multiple sets so the officers can coordinate their wardrobe for the situation. Most urban departments get black, most departments that have a lot of undeveloped natural areas to cover get camo. I'd bet that a lot of that gear is probably even stuff the officers have bought on their own to supplement or improve on the department issue gear.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-10-2015, 10:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyder View Post
I bet he woke up very excited that day knowing he was going to get to play dress-up.
Really??? Safer bet was that he woke up that day wondering if he was coming home or if he was gonna catch a bullet before he gets his next mediocre paycheck.
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       06-10-2015, 10:45 AM Reply   
This isn't a Chuck Norris movie. 99.9% of the time these guys are handing out seat belt tickets to unsuspecting cubicle jockeys so they can prop up their department's militarization budget. Don't give me this putting your life on the line B.S. Being a cop isn't even close to the most dangerous job in the U.S.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-10-2015, 1:40 PM Reply   
Look, don't read me wrong here. I fully support law and order. and being a cop in today's climate would SUCK! But there is a strong and recent trend towards matching capabilities, tools and techniques between our domestic law enforcement and our military. And yes, that's wrong.
It's an often repeated excuse to say, "cops need to have better weapons and equipment than the bad guys". But I'm not seeing too many SWAT situations, or standoffs, or general mayhem where perpetrators are using RPG's, IED's, .50cals, etc. The bad guys are still using knives, hand guns and the occasional AR15. which is unfortunate... but nothing new. We've armed the hell out of our various gov't agencies to the tune of billions of rounds of ammo and billions of dollars of surplus military equipment and gear. The size and scope of SWAT/Special Operations type units in our police has grown precipitously over the two decades. (from about 3000 SWAT raids/yr in the 80's to over 50,000 a year today). http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...swat-john-fund
If you put on a uniform and a badge every day as your chosen profession to uphold law and order and protect the citizens of your town/county/state, god bless ya. But if you want to defend America against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that's a different uniform and a different set of orders all together. The words may sound similar, but they're vastly different in meaning.
Old    Boat Driver (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       06-11-2015, 7:00 AM Reply   
@Snyder I agree that being a soldier and a police officer are two completely different things and even though I appreciate those that have served our great country (in the military), I understand that they are all not war heroes. As a comparison there are times I do not understand why the military does things the way they do or why soldiers act or even dress a certain way in some situations. The fact is I have never been in the military and i will never understand and that's okay, that just means I am ignorant. With that in mind I try not to pass judgement without some understanding of what is actually going on and even then my scope of understanding is limited again because of my ignorance.
Consider what you did, or at least it appears this way; you looked at a few pictures and some stats and concluded if something is right or wrong without ever asking why something is the way it is. I understand sometimes people just need to vent and the police and military are both easy targets, its cool.
@Denver I would agree being a police officer is definitely not the most dangerous job in the world and your assessment is close. I'd say 97% of the time it is really boring, 2% of the time Damn dangerous (Chuck Norris movie, probably not), and 1% highly unusual. Also on a personal note in 16 years of patrol duty I never wrote a seatbelt ticket I figure if an adult doesn't want to wear a seatbelt it there choice. The fact is it doesn't matter what I have done or why I did it because you will never understand and that's okay.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-11-2015, 8:51 AM Reply   
^^ Stand up guy. Stand up response. Thanks

Agreed, I do not have all the details on exact circumstances in each of the photos in this thread. But I stand by my principle in a broader, more generalized context of an ever increasing "police state" mentality.

By the way, I'm former military, and I have close friends and family in law enforcement at various levels, local and federal. So my opinions on this are not just from what I've read on the interwebs or seen on the evening news.
Old    Boat Driver (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       06-11-2015, 10:09 AM Reply   
Thank you for your service. Your concerns are understood and shared.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-15-2015, 12:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Really??? Safer bet was that he woke up that day wondering if he was coming home or if he was gonna catch a bullet before he gets his next mediocre paycheck.
10. Construction Laborers
Total fatalities for 2013 (based on preliminary data): 215

Fatality rate (per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers): 17.7
9. Electrical Power-Line Installers And Repairers

Total fatalities for 2013 (based on preliminary data): 27

Fatality rate (per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers): 21.5
8. Farmers, Ranchers, And Other Agricultural Managers

Total fatalities for 2013 (based on preliminary data): 220

Fatality rate (per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers): 21.8
7. Driver/Sales Workers and Truck Drivers

Total fatalities for 2013 (based on preliminary data): 748

Fatality rate (per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers): 22.0
6. Mining Machine Operators

Total fatalities for 2013 (based on preliminary data): 16

Fatality rate (per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers): 26.9
5. Refuse And Recyclable Material Collectors

Total fatalities for 2013 (based on preliminary data): 33

Fatality rate (per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers): 33.0
4. Roofers

Total fatalities for 2013 (based on preliminary data): 69

Fatality rate (per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers): 38.7
3. Aircraft Pilots And Flight Engineers

Total fatalities for 2013 (based on preliminary data): 63

Fatality rate (per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers): 50.6
2. Fishers And Related Fishing Workers

Total fatalities for 2013 (based on preliminary data): 27

Fatality rate (per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers): 75.0
1. Logging Workers

Total fatalities for 2013 (based on preliminary data): 59

Fatality rate (per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers): 91.3


The new breed of Law Enforcement has been trained to fear their own shadow. That's why it's takes 3 cars and 5 officers to stop,cuff and interrogate the obvious mentally retarded kid a few doors down for not having a light on his bike a half hour before sunset. It's necessary to THROW the 82 year old stroke victims face into the dirt while she reached into her purse looking for an ID you asked for.... The police were called because her face was drooping and she was confused- the store owners were concerned, so they called the police. She was having a stroke. Now she has stitches, too.... Fortunately, you made it home to your family.

Be certain to tip your pizza delivery driver well....he made it to #7.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-15-2015, 3:06 PM Reply   
I'm agreeing with this tread as well. Serve and protect but don't abuse and overreach. It's a job and has risks just like every other job. Way to many cases of trigger and power happy cops taking their jobs as given them ultimate power over everyday citizens. U have to wonder how much crap and abuse we don't hear about going on now! And why on earth are police unions so opposed to wearing body cameras? Why are they opposed to gps tracking in their squad cars?
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-29-2015, 3:34 PM Reply   
In 2010 i went through and graduated from a post academy. It was totally military based. Right down to overbearing drill sargents and shakedown inspections looking in your pockets for threads. During fto i was ordered to search everyone i contacted. This required me to trample constitutional rights...when i didn't they wrote me up.
Old    Terry Redfearn (TerryR)      Join Date: Aug 2010       11-14-2015, 2:22 PM Reply   
I would disagreee with the demilitarazation of the Police.

I can see occassions arise when the local police may be faced with a foriegn military style attack when the use of surplus military weapons may help save lives.

Additionally, the mere appearance of military trained police is important in disuading attacks on American soil. Cowards will gravitate toward softer targets in other more liberal countries.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-15-2015, 9:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyder View Post
Yes they should be able to protect themselves and the public.
Their job is not to protect the public, quite the opposite. Their job is to enforce laws (not safety), the only tool they have to do so is violence. Modern police are essentially welfare recipients, they are paid with money stolen from others at gunpoint and don't provide a service people would pay for (private security exists where policing is required or desired).

These guys have failed at being productive members of society, so do some training to teach them to be terrified of everyone and everything and then are sent out heavily armed and unaccountable for any violence or property damage they do (qualified immunity). Heck, if you're not dumb as a brick the police don't want you (IQ much over 100 disqualifies).

Demilitarization of police is a good thing, but really if qualified immunity were eliminated and every one of those criminals held personally liable for their actions they could play army all they want but the problem individuals would be eliminated quickly. Instead the problem individuals rape, murder, steal and get a paid vacation for their crimes.
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       11-15-2015, 1:15 PM Reply   
We have people and organizations (not the local police) who are trained to protect us from a foreign military style attack. Your local police force is not qualified for this task and giving them military style weapons doesn't make them any more qualified Terry. It only makes them more dangerous to American citizens who made the mistake of allowing their license plate tags expire or were looking at the road instead of their speedometer and accidently exceeded the limit.
Old    Doctor Octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-15-2015, 5:21 PM Reply   
FWIW, there is a solid body of social science research showing that people's mindsets and behaviors will change based upon what they are wearing.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-15-2015, 5:48 PM Reply   
One of the few times where Barry and I are in agreement.
Old    Ifishok™ (ifishok)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-03-2015, 3:45 AM Reply   
Well the police put the armored vehicles to good use yesterday, yes they do need them, thank goodness they have them and thanks to all the police out there doing there job.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       12-04-2015, 2:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverRider View Post
We have people and organizations (not the local police) who are trained to protect us from a foreign military style attack. Your local police force is not qualified for this task and giving them military style weapons doesn't make them any more qualified Terry. It only makes them more dangerous to American citizens who made the mistake of allowing their license plate tags expire or were looking at the road instead of their speedometer and accidently exceeded the limit.
I would expect nothing less from a guy living in the land of the bust out, high on life, poverty stricken utopia called Colorado. Wonder who showed up to help all those innocent people in the latest Colorado massacre????? Bet it was the marines? No wait it was the Air Force they're the closest, no no it was the army? Nope the local police who had to face an armed lunatic and break through the side of a building to get in him in control. I don't suppose you showed up and went running in with your slingshot to help did you?

Most recent case San Bernardino. I bet You were on your way there again right? Maybe you upped to a blow gun. Without that equipment those terrorists go free period. Personally if you want to eliminate bills and incarceration rates bring back the death penalty. There is no reason someone who takes anlife willingly should every get to live a free life let alone live. The world is an ugly place. You don't like getting hassled for your twilight buy you 5 dollar lightbulb like a responsible citizen would. Who was it again that took down these terrorists? Must have been our military again right since the police aren't qualified to handle such weaponry. Yea. Must've been them running in and escorting citizens to safety.



Try and step out of mom's basement into the real world.....Feel free to step outside of the misconception you live in and see the dark side of the world the liberals have created and chose to ignore with no penalties for breaking the law, allowing illegals to come in by droves, having more people then ever dependent on welfare waiting for the government to give them more free handouts at a cost to those working hard. Feel to come to LA or NY where murders and shootings are daily... Better yet come to Chicago where we are leading the country again in violent crime. I'll be happy to give you a ride along and dump you off to have a chat with the armed gangstars in the middle of Englewood. I will gladly rattle off at least 12 different situations here in Chicago alone over the past 3 years were that equipment was essential in saving numerous life's. It's called real life not CNN

Dont even get me started on all the black lives matter BS. What did all the evidence prove in the most recent cases tried in public opinion by our government and media. Oh that the police acted correctly. When you are only given one side and 12 seconds of video it's easy to sway public opinion. Social media has killed this country and the big guy in the White House has done his job of weakening our country and taking racial tensions back 200yrs. It's sickening what this world has become. The rights of normal hardworking Americans have been trampled on and taken away for votes and $$$.

Last edited by xstarrider; 12-04-2015 at 2:36 PM.
Old    David (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       12-04-2015, 7:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
I would expect nothing less from a guy living in the land of the bust out, high on life, poverty stricken utopia called Colorado. Wonder who showed up to help all those innocent people in the latest Colorado massacre????? Bet it was the marines? No wait it was the Air Force they're the closest, no no it was the army? Nope the local police who had to face an armed lunatic and break through the side of a building to get in him in control. I don't suppose you showed up and went running in with your slingshot to help did you?

Most recent case San Bernardino. I bet You were on your way there again right? Maybe you upped to a blow gun. Without that equipment those terrorists go free period. Personally if you want to eliminate bills and incarceration rates bring back the death penalty. There is no reason someone who takes anlife willingly should every get to live a free life let alone live. The world is an ugly place. You don't like getting hassled for your twilight buy you 5 dollar lightbulb like a responsible citizen would. Who was it again that took down these terrorists? Must have been our military again right since the police aren't qualified to handle such weaponry. Yea. Must've been them running in and escorting citizens to safety.



Try and step out of mom's basement into the real world.....Feel free to step outside of the misconception you live in and see the dark side of the world the liberals have created and chose to ignore with no penalties for breaking the law, allowing illegals to come in by droves, having more people then ever dependent on welfare waiting for the government to give them more free handouts at a cost to those working hard. Feel to come to LA or NY where murders and shootings are daily... Better yet come to Chicago where we are leading the country again in violent crime. I'll be happy to give you a ride along and dump you off to have a chat with the armed gangstars in the middle of Englewood. I will gladly rattle off at least 12 different situations here in Chicago alone over the past 3 years were that equipment was essential in saving numerous life's. It's called real life not CNN

Dont even get me started on all the black lives matter BS. What did all the evidence prove in the most recent cases tried in public opinion by our government and media. Oh that the police acted correctly. When you are only given one side and 12 seconds of video it's easy to sway public opinion. Social media has killed this country and the big guy in the White House has done his job of weakening our country and taking racial tensions back 200yrs. It's sickening what this world has become. The rights of normal hardworking Americans have been trampled on and taken away for votes and $$$.
^^^^^^ This!! ^^^^^

Finally someone who tells it like it is.
Old    Terry Redfearn (TerryR)      Join Date: Aug 2010       12-05-2015, 9:27 AM Reply   
I friend of mine lost his wife in the Muslim massacre at the Inland Regional Center on Wednesday.
I would like to thank you swat guy for the work you and guys like you do. It's certainly ok with me if you need a special uniform to face armed invaders who are carrying AR-15 rifles and bullet proof vests.

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