W2W Question

I have been trying to go w2w and have made it to the downside once or twice but crashed so it didnt cound. I feel like i have bad control in the air and i know you have to keep the handle in at your hip but once i am up there i feel out of control and my body wants to fall forward or backward or side to side. Also I edge all the way out untill i cant get any farther and hit the wake square, like head on. If i hit it at more of an angle i feel like i will never get the distance i need. Thanks.

I have always done the same thing...hit the wake square and hard. I had a hard time getting air....just flashed across the back of the boat very fast.

Monday a pro and instructor told me to do the opposite. Instead of concentrating on cutting by pulling on the rope and hitting the wake lip at 90 degrees, he said to think sloooowwww....

He said to think about not hitting the wake at 90 degrees...try to hit it at more like 45 degrees...but edging harder than you ever have.

So, I go out not as far as usual, then think slowwwww.

Lazily start the carve, then dig deeper, but keeping my front foot towards the boat more....but dig deeeeep.

Anyway, I flew. The best part was that I was in control in the air for the first time. I kind of popped up, no effort, then landed.


After that set, I went from being tired after five minutes to being able to stay behind the boat for much longer.

For what its worth...from a guy who sucks.

I have had a similar problem. It's my first summer wakeboarding, and I've tried nearly every piece of advice I've recieved and still I struggle to go W2W. I've always leaned back, rolled my knees over the board, and pulled the rope to my hip. Yet when I hit the wake, I get little to no pop. I usually try to go straight across the wake, any others have better luck going at a 45 degree angle rather than a 90? I've tried standing tall at the crest of the wake, i've tried readjusting my hips, and basically tried anything that I had read about edging. Any more advice would be great.

Hey guys, there are loads of posts about this very topic, so it might help to search out some of the others for some information.

But anyway, are you all using non-stretch lines? If you're pulling to your hip with rubber band, it will still pull you off axis. Also, going at the wake hard is not the way to go because it doesn't allow you to ride up the ramp of the wake. You'll never get pop with that kind of speed. Slow your cut down, ride up the wake, and concentrate on pushing down with your legs (mights be easier to visualize that 'standing tall').

If you're already pulling to your hip, you've already got the hard part.

Yea, I'm using a SL Ultra lite.

That's probably my problem, I'm cutting @ 90 degree's, rather than thinking about ramping up.

Then again, I don't know how many times I've said, "I know what I'm doing wrong."

Check this instructional on the home page under Wake 101, it should help. It has detailed instructions and a short video.

http://www.wakeworld.com/Tricklist/TrickTip009.asp

If i dont edge out all the way and hit the wake square, i feel like i have know speed at all and no matter how hard i pop i will go up and right back down in the middle of the wake. I dont know it gets frustrating because i am so close and have watched so many instructionals. The thing that is hard is there are like 2 kids here who ride and i am the most advanced so i cant even watch someone who doesnt suck so i can learn haha. I have a SL static line so i think it has some stretch but i just ordered a SL thermal line.

ok so here's my two cents.

every time I read one of these wake to wake posts I almost always see the folks who are having trouble state they are edging properly. I think the real issues is their conception of edging vs proper edging. If your edging properly line tension and control in the air are almost a given and you dont need to stand tall or really put much effort into it to land even way out in the flats.
I know cause I was recently in the same predicament.
I could go wake to wake, rarely land in the flats, and usually get 3-5 feet of pop and would wipe on half the landings... only three weeks ago.

I usually wont plug a product but this one is well worth the money and has made a huge difference in me and my wife's skills almost instantly.

I bought "The Book" dvd and they have some really good edging drills that really work well and in our case we started seeing a difference after only a couple sets.

Now (after a solid week of drills) I'm consistantly getting 9-11 feet of air, way out in the flats and sticking the landings (harder landings from altitude, now going toe side wake to wake first time last week. My wife can now go wake to wake (first time last week after the vid) ride swtich at will (first time last week) and can ollie 180's to switch coming out of the wake (first time last week), now she almost never falls and doesnt wear out in only 5 min... It was like I traded in my wife for a boarder

back to edging
In our cases, someone told us long ago that most of your weight should be on your back leg when you edge. like 70% back leg 30% front. This is a common misconception. 70% on your forward leg and really drive down that forward leg edge. This gives you the speed and line tension you need to build to take advantage of the pop in the wake. In the dvd one of the pro's states that if your edging properly, the spray coming off the board will be as high as the rider, if its not, your doing it wrong.

The video also pointed out a number of other really bad habits that we had unknowingly fallen into.



(Message edited by kennethl on July 22, 2005)

kennethl, did you purchase Book 2 to start since you had already been wakeboarding. I have a few bad habits that need breaking myself.

just go for broke and buy the book full disc set, comes w/ 4-5 disc's.

defenity watch the intro and the building a foundation. when i was having trouble, i could go wake to wake, but only about 3-4ft of air and i would fall at least 50% of the time, i didnt have good control, so i picked up WakeTrix and that dvd really helped me w/ grabs and staying in control throughout the edge, pop, and landing.

then i got the book, and it just helped me more on how to edge harder and more consistant, the edging drill is the best drill ever, really gets you to feel the edge.

thanks mmobius2001. I saw that they had the box set after my last post. I have Waketrix and it's good, but there could be more drills on building a foundation. You wouldn't happen to want to sell a used set would you?

Buy the entire thing. Think of it this way, if it saves you just 10 hours of frustration while learning (it will the first weekend), it has already paid for itself in just gas.

Most wont think anything of plunking down a hundie for better bindings/board/rope/ballast. Quality education will do more for you than any of those IMHO. I suck, and am new, but swear by training.

I'd like to get a hold of a used Book dvd, eh, if only just the beginners stuff. I think that'd help me tremendously

I'd like to get a hold of a used Book dvd, eh, if only just the beginners stuff. I think that'd help me tremendously

"Now (after a solid week of drills) I'm consistantly getting 9-11 feet of air,"

Kenneth, I think you may be exaggerting a little. I highly doubt your getting 9 - 11 feet of air off a normal wake jump? Maybe during a raley or other invert, but not a normal wake jump. It might feel like 9 - 11 feet but in reality its probably only 4 - 5 feet and maybe 6 on a real good jump. If, when you say 9 - 11 feet and you mean distance opposed to hieght then I rescend my comments.

Don't want to give some noobs false expectations. 4 - 6 feet is good air and with decent speed will easily put you into the flats.

Root...dumb question probably, but how do you get to the flats? I'm first year rider and have no problem now going W2W at 65' and 70' at 21 mph, but I can't seem to get out into the flats. Do I just take a bigger cut and use the same mechanics as W2W jumps?

root, i was gonna say the same thing, i used to get 3ft of air, now i get more like 5ft, the highest i've ever been is about 10ft and it was off the 2nd roller in a double up, and that was freaking high!

about the flats: you use the same mechanics as a W2W, but edge out alittle more i usually go about 8-10ft for normal jumps and 10-13ft for flats, when you start your progressive edge towards the wake, when you are about 4ft or so from it, really throw those shoulders back to load the line and gain speed, you want to feel almost like a skier (speed wise) and explode off the top of the wake, and you might feel like you didnt pop UP as much but you will fly out more which gives you just as much hang time.

ok...thanks phil for the tips. when do you guys start to stand tall and what do you look at while you are edging in? right now, i look at the top of the wake and try to stand tall at the last second (on the very top of the wake), but I think I maybe waiting too long and missing the full pop. i've played around with the timing, and from the few times I feel like I hit it right, I was looking at the trough of the wake (bottom of the wake) and that's when I started to stand tall and made sure I was fully standing tall by take off. This seemed to really kick me up there.

when do you guys stand tall...trough or top of the wake?

"highly doubt your getting 9 - 11 feet of air off a normal wake jump?"

define “normal”.

if “normal” is riding up one wake then down the other side I can see where your coming from, 4-6 feet of air would be expected.. 4ft is a little over waist high.. 5-6ft looks about like what root has in his profile pic. If normal is landing 10-15 feet out in the flats then yea, that’s where I’m landing “normally”..

looking at it objectively. if someone were standing in the middle of the wake I could clear them with a foot or two and the descent doesn’t start until after the second wake. Easily the same height as a standard door frame.. So.. if it'll please the forum I'll retract and state 8-10 incase someone's panties get in a knot. I generally try keep the peace.

I'll restate my original point. Get a good video that has drills that teach good techniques and "MUSCLE MEMORY". IMHO “the book” has great drills. As someone mentioned above the “Building a Foundation” disk covers edging drills & entry level jumping. If you are in a position where you’d only like 1 disk, it’s the most relevant to jumps and edging. The drills go in steps and show you how to check to see if you’re doing things correctly. I can only recommend “the book” because the only other dvd I have is “Detention” and it pretty much useless to the point where I decided wake dvd's were a waste of money for awhile.

Reading about how to jump in forums you’re mostly going to get good intentions not necessarily good advice. Even if someone is doing things correctly after reading about it in the forum, how could a reader really know right from wrong. Its only human nature to try to work it out by trial and error. I could have saved lots of frustration and been allot further along in my skills and enjoyment if I had just bought a really good instruction a couple years ago.

best of luck}

(Message edited by kennethl on July 22, 2005)

(Message edited by kennethl on July 22, 2005)

yeah, this is my 2nd year wakeboarding, and last year it took all year to just be able to go wake to wake, just by watching the book and practicing at the end of sessions i can now, go w2w, w2w flats, grabs, toeside w2w, heelside frontside 180, ollie 180 switch and regular, heelside backside ollie 180, land blind, hit the double up.

the book as progressed my riding so much just by teaching me proper technique, and the "building blocks" to try new things. thats the best part about the book it doesnt just show you the trick and then slow it down over and over, it breaks it down to what you need to already know what to do and incorporate it in the next level trick.

(Message edited by mmobius2001 on July 22, 2005)

I just edge out as far as i can then i back off and flatten and coast, then i bend my knees and look back at the wake and start edging and fight the pull of the boat at that same sharp angle and when i hit the wake i stand tall. What is wrong with that that i shouldnt clear it?

This may or may not be your problem, but once I got my hips in the right position, wake to wake behind any boat became easy. Before when my knees were bent coming in, my hips were back over the rear edge of board which left my body position and my rope tension in a weak position.

Now I edge out hard, coast and throw my body back with my hips forward and just edge through the wake. No matter if I had the proper edging, proper handle position or I was standing tall at the wake, the weak hip position was holding me back. My profile pic is from last year and it shows my weak body and hip position. I need to update with a pic from this year.

I just landed my first w2w today and i am pumped now. I edged all the way through the wake and my first time landed in the flats. I only landed 3 out of like 10 because i have to get the feel of the right position in the air because i am having balance problems a little while in the air. I think the reason i finally got it is the new thermal line i just got it is awesome.

For balance keep both hands on the handle low at hip and look at the shore, not down at the water.

"Root...dumb question probably, but how do you get to the flats? I'm first year rider and have no problem now going W2W at 65' and 70' at 21 mph, but I can't seem to get out into the flats. Do I just take a bigger cut and use the same mechanics as W2W jumps?"

Andrew, getting to the flats is actually pretty easy. You just have to hit the wake with a lot of speed. For a beginner I don't think landing in the flats is a good goal because speed isn't the #1 ingredient for a good, technically sound, jump. Once you learn to generate good pop off the wake then slowly increase the speed of your cut. Before you know it you will be landing in the flats on every jump.

Kenneth, proof is in a picture. An 8' high jump is excellent. Most pros don't go much higher then 8' on normal wake jumps. Yeah, when they go inverted or do a double up thats a completely different story. Anyway, I'd love to see pics.

I am getting the hang of keeping ballance a little better. I landed 4 heelside w2w's in a row today. It was tricky because there was like 3 foot rollers.