2 speed transmission in MB Sports

What is everyones take on the 2 speed gearbox in the MB sports models? How well does it work? How reliable have they been? If they are as good as they claim, why haven't the other manufacturers jumped on board as well?

This is my opinion!!

You don't need the two speed on any other wakeboarding boat out there, but you do on an MB! Why? Because you have to weight the boat down so damn much to get a good wake, that is why!!!

MB supposedly has this patented, however you can buy a top of the line two speed tranny called the Powerglide that will literally bolt to all our current engines. Sanger had the two speed way back when... Mike probably took the idea from his dad's boat building days at Brendel, a lot of the old Brendel Hydros had two speeds in them too. They use to be very common in v-drive boats, specially those that had the casale v-drive in them. I had a Sanger double bouble with a Powerglide in it, it was pretty cool, but not necessary! Similar things have been done with a two pitch prop like the one Land & Sea use to build.

For about $1300 you could get a Powerglide that will outlast any PCM tranny or other variant out there.

haha, Bocephus, you crack me up... here is my opinion!!!

Bocephus hates MB and will take any chance he gets to talk s**t on them.

The two speed tranny is simply not needed.

I've never owned an MB so only from riding in one...
I can't stand the "clunk" of the two speed. It seemed like you could smooth it out by backing off the throttle a bit but the sound and feeling in the boat was way too awkward.

Opinions are always welcome. We just got our first MB dealer in Alberta (As far as I know) and was wondering from other areas peoples thoughts and opinions. Good or otherwise!

I want to point out that OnlyInboards is sponsored by MB Sports. (just so no one calls BS or something)

However, I was impressed with their boats and thought that the wakes were great with stock ballast. I had a chance to go out in the V23 and the Tomcat and was impressed. I'm going to MB in March to film/document the building of my 2008 Tomcat and will post links to the videos when they are up so you can see the build quality on these boats.

This is just my opinion of course and it's hardly unbiased as I mentioned above. But, even without the sponsorship, i would feel the same about their quality.

Hopefully some other owners will chime in!

I don't know much about it, but from an economy standpoint I never understood why boats didn't have multi speed transmissions. It would make sense that you could gear it so the boat could be cruising at 40mph at 3000rpm instead of 5200rpm.

I don't know how much the B-52 has changed in the last couple of years but I have spent some time in the 05 models. They seemed to be built fairly well and it's a nice boat overall. Great surf wake if your into surfing. The wake for wakeboarding was adequate but not one of my favorite wakes out there by a long shot.

The tower was nice and tall and had a great bimini top but it swayed way to much. One of my friends had some pretty bad stress cracks in his gel coat from all the movement.

The ballast pumps may of been the slowest I've ever seen but they always worked. Who's in a hurry at the lake anyways.

My biggest peeve would be the bow rise and slow plane time. I'm 6-4 and couldn't see over the bow on starts. I found this to actually be dangerous at times because you flat out couldn't see what was in front of you on starts. Keep in mind that we were only running stock ballast. It seemed to be less of a problem in the 23 from what I remember.

If you think MB's have a lot of bow rise you have not been in a V23 or any B-52 they have built in the past few years.

Alan,
Did Mb make a change on the B-52 since 05 ?

I am pretty sure the tower issue was addressed by MB for their new models. When i was in the V23 and Tomcat loaded, i did not notice the bow rise. In fact, i thought one of the cool things about the boat was that you could actually sit in the seat and see through the windshield and drive... didn't need the bolster seat at all. The hull just changed for 2008 on the V23 FYI.

Yes the B-52/220v is a completely different boat, as of 2007 models, basically a shortened V23 with a different transom.

the 2 speed makes sence for cruising and for boarding. The reason I personaly think others have not offered it is becouse they dont think out of the box like MB. As far a quality the only boat who is even close to them are Natique. But thats my opinion I own one.

"This is just my opinion of course and it's hardly unbiased as I mentioned above. But, even without the sponsorship, i would feel the same about their quality.

Hopefully some other owners will chime in!


Nice come back there Bubba. Sounds like you don't want to loose your sponser or advertizer or whatever you call it ! HA HA HA

uh, no... Do you really think my sponsorship deal with MB hinges on a thread on wakeworld???

I just figured that since i was commenting, I should point out that there could be a perceived bias.

(Message edited by wakereviews on January 18, 2008)

v23 is the best stock wake there is.

2speed tranny is way better on gas.

lmao he called you bubba.

I had an MB and I would own another.

I have an 07 B52 without the 2sp. The bow rise in mine is much less than my 06 Malibu VLX and I think the wake is the same or better. I really like the ballast being in the hull and not taking up storage. I like having the ballast (1800#) completely on the sides for surfing. They didn't take any longer to fill than the Sanger I test drove.

I like my boat and would buy it again.
Just my opinion. I'm not a boat expert or supported by MB.

Message me if you have any questions.

OK, this is just my opinion, but I have looked at and ridden/driven most of the boats on the marketplace and I have to say the only boat I would never consider buying is any MB boat. I just don't like the looks of them, the feel when driving, nor the wakeboard wake (although the surf wake is pretty good). I don't see them as being the "innovators" that several people do. In particular their pickle fork Tomcat. It looks like they merely took a normal hull and added the fork on the front as opposed to the design look of the X-Star and even the Tige. For those of you old enough, I find it very similar to the comparison of the L-1011 and the DC-10. The rear, tail engine on the L-1011 was fully integrated into the tail design. The rear, tail engine on the DC-10 looked like it was retrofitted in (like the pickle fork front end on the Tomcat).

Like I said, just my opinion. I know there are many MB owners out there that feel otherwise and I am glad they are proud of their boats. Whatever you own you should be happy with.

I could find something wrong with everything if i wanted too-but live and let ride.one of my best friends has a MB...I think its a great wake and its a great boat ,i have rode it all winter since i winterized my centurion. Dont see nothin wrong with an MB........and what they said in the magazines about the wake is something to (cut your teeth on) is B-S . sorrry to rant my 2 cents worth. quit bitchin and ride more!!!!

Wakeshoe, wow, I never expected to hear a 1011 and DC-10 reference on a wakeboard board. But I'm glad I did. I love the 1011, probably the prettiest airliner ever built. (And now you know that your comparison was understood and enjoyed by at least one person.)

bah if it's not Boeing I ain't going. I don't have anything "constructive" to add other than I appreciated the aircraft refrence as well!

My buddy has a 06 B52 V23 Team. It does fine with the single speed tranny, even when fully loaded. He has the 6.0L engine.

OK to preface this yes I do have a Tomcat that I bought this fall. I mention that so everyone that wants to hate or continue the MC or Bu's are best debate can quit reading.

After test driving several, being all over a bunch more I felt that the MB's were the strongest / best built (yes I concede that there will always be exceptions, there's probably a rock solid bayliner out there that will never have a problem and a POS Ocean Yacht that's nothing but problems), I live around a lot of 100+' er's and crossing that wake in a couple of the others while fine didn't install the same confidence that the rock solid hull of the MB's did. I will agree that the fork on the Tomcat isn't for everyone but I liked a couple things about it, first it's one of those things that invoke emotion, generally either you love it or you hate it not much in between and I like that emotional draw of it(I used to own a Prowler which was the same way, I actually miss that car), on the trailer it's a take it or leave it design, on the water I really like it, it adds to the big beefy look, and I like the functionality it adds to the boat, yes the pickle looks GREAT on the MC's but can you honestly fit 4 adults up there comfortably, no, also would you trust just anyone to drive it and not worry about them stuffing the bow especially in a decent size chop, I doubt it, I can do both and we haven't even started the topic of usable storage and no extra sacks everywhere I should be able to stow gear all of which to me are a big deal.

Back to the 2 speed I test drove a couple MB's with and without it and the 2 speed is nice especially if you have the smaller motor on a bigger boat, it's not required but if you go to the 23' boats I believe you ought to have either the big motor or the 2 speed just to make life easier getting going full of internal ballast. I did a bunch of looking around and couldn't find a single example of someone having a problem with the trans and after driving it a bit you can eliminate the clunk of switching gears if it bothers you, it just takes knowing how to do it, for those that want to disagree and say it should be smooth regardless of experience with it try manually shifting your car without letting off the gas and see if it's smooth or clunk free. After I made about 10 shifts and could do it almost perfectly and lost no momentum but it is something that takes doing a couple times to get it right. Behind the boat I honestly couldn't tell when they shifted gears it was that seemless.

To question those that doubt the wake how would you respond to the following quote from WakeBoarding Mag's review of the Tomcat...

"Wake
Our testers loved the wake behind the F23, describing it as, "just perfect." With ramps that are not too rampy and not too steep, the
Tomcat will please a wide variety or riders, from cautious beginners to pop-hungry pros."}

I love my two speed tranny. Forward works well when I want to pull up a rider... Reverse works well when I need to back into the dock.

MB Sport invented it... Aztec Crow perfected it!

Mike B. nailed it. The 2 speed works well with the small engine (the PCM 330). Probably overkill with the ZR6. We have the B52 V23 Team with the triple up (2,500lbs stock ballast) with the 330. The low gear works great when all of the ballast is full and the boat is loaded with people. Especially when dual surfing.

The first time I shifted under full throttle, the clunk was very unsettling. It's not like a Tiptronic in a car that will smooth the shift via computer software. Just like Mike said, a couple of times of learning to feather the throttle - think shifting w/o a clutch on a dirt bike - and it is very smooth. Is it worth it? If you use it definitely. If you don't want to mess with it, then get the bigger engine. These boats when loaded with just stock ballast are heavy.

doesnt sweeny and buffalo use the MB sport?

and the wakeboard camp that sweeny runs arent they using mbs?

might ask them what they think im sure they put them through the riggors.

I think Jason sent his back after he got hurt. I thought they used Malibu's @ Sweeny's camp ?

according to their website they have this

MB Tomcat 23'

Yhea the Tomcat wake ripped my shoulder apart like the 2nd ride on it. The wake is freak'n huge. Even with stock ballast and like 4-5 heads it is very big and has a great shape. With the smaller motor I would recommend the 2-speed trany. I would prefer to go with the bigger motor however and probably lose the 2-speed and than maybe mess with the prop. I have my sights on the 21' Tomcat schedule for release later this year.

Uuuhhhhhhh 21' Tomcat?

whoops.

Or so the boat show rumors flowed....

rumors galor, but I understand it's probably coming, I think someone said they were looking to take a foot out of the forks and another out of the middle somewhere to make it 21...

Anyone got any spy photo's?

Then why not just put a TH350 or TH400 behind the motor and have a three speed transmission?? If two speeds is so good, three should be better right?? They used to use those in the old v-Drives as well...Hell, you can probably still get one in a Schiada or something.

or hell why not just go for the whole ball of wax and put a six speed with paddle shifter... please

PLEASE... Exactly!! Thank You! The two speed tranny in the MB is a Band Aide for a poor performing boat!

It is obvious that Bocephus has a personal vendetta against MB.

---

quote:

By OnlyInboards.com (wakereviews) on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 7:19 am:

It is obvious that Bocephus has a personal vendetta against MB.

---

I don't have a vendetta. I owned an MB and as a result have an opinion of them and the company owner. This opinion is the result of my experience with the product and my experience with the owner of the company. Just because you sell them doesn't make your opinion more valid than mine.

It is obvious that Onlyinboards.com has a personal interest in MB selling boats.

that is a valid statement, but IMO you take it too far.

I own a V23. Iv'e owned several boats. Loved everyone of them. The only thing about the MB that I really don;t care for is the width of the boat. I wish they would have made it a tad wider. Other then that I love everything about it. I have never owned a boat where no matter where I am launching I have atleast 2-3 people come up and tell me it's the nicest boat they have ever seen. If you know how to shift the 2 speed right you won't even know you are shifitng. You have to slightly back off and then gas it again. If someone new is driving and they just shift you will here the clunk.

bocephus makes me laugh.

That statement he make could not be more true. You would think that a site called onlyinboards.com, that sold all types would not be affiliated with one or another.

I don't know a whole lot about MB's particular gearing implementation, but to make a blanket statement that gears on a boat are a bad idea seems silly to me. If you can get a multigear system to work like it does in a car, you can not only save fuel and engine stress, but you could also utilize a smaller engine (cheaper and uses less gas) to get the same or even better performance.

As one example, I know a lot of people that live on huge lakes like Havasu and would like more top speed out of their wake boats in order to get to their riding spot faster. I would think a top gear would be exactly what would make these people happy.

I will go ahead and sum up this discussion with words right from the horse's mouth...

" An MB Sports Boat is not for everyone. An MB is custom-built for a certain, special individual, not for everyone. An MB owner has been through a thoughtful process of design, adding their own personal choices and touches which are manufactured right into the boat. Important touches that are simply not found on a mass-produced boat." - Mike Brendel, Page 1, 2008 Brochure

What percentage of MBs are custom ordered vice bought on a show room floor or at a boat show? I think Mr. Brendel is full of it. These boats are not custom boats. I am not flown into the factory to have the driver's seat custom fitted to my rear end. I mean what does that mean? What about them are custom and not mass produced? If we are talking colors and options, then all boat makers offer these types of choices. What gives?

More than 50% of my customers boats are custom ordered. Yes, I have had customers fly out to CA to visit the factory to design their boats. MB has over 40 gel coat options, 120 Vinyl options, and 8 different designs. We also do not use any stickers anywhere, all of the graphics are made with gel-coat. As far as other manufacturers go, no one currently can do any of that and there are no other butt fitted wake/ski boats on the market today, MB is the only one capable of building boats this way. If MC built a boat like this they would charge you 200k for it.

Alan,

Nice to know. What is butt fitted? I am wondering, given your statement above, how can MB then get away with not charging $200K for a boat? I am not trying to flame, but rather understand. MC's, Bu's, Nauty's are all "Mass produced". If I recall from business class, mass production should in turn drop the price of a product due to the shared cost of common parts. I guess I am still not understanding. Besides the graphics in the gel coat, which is offered now by some mass produced boats to include Sanger, Centurion, etc. and a boat load (get it) of vinyl options, what is different?

Alan,
How many of customers buy an MB after owning a Mastercraft, Malibu or Correct Craft?

Thanks!

Bocephus, can you tell us more about the 'felony arrests' mentioned in another thread? Who was arrested?

I think DW's comments are money. Not an MB owner myself, but I applaud them for at least trying to bring some new, or at least bring back, some engineering that others are not. Given the variances in weight and speed we use our boats, offering a couple of gearing options will allow for greater efficiencies and better performance. With a single speed tranny, the only way to change gearing is by repropping which forces you to give up top end or give up pull.

Onlyinboards - I thought you reasonably disclosed your financial interests and can't see why some can't let it go.

I can let it go, I was merely stating that we have similar personal fair on this subject...

I personally think it is great that there are companies pushing the envelope. Some will go the right way and some will not and fail. Either way, design is good for the sport. I do see gears as being very benificial for any boat, but I personally am not ready to have the technology until it is rock solid. Could you imagine having a car that only had one gear. I would imagine that the first only had one gear.
Other options might be adjusting the pitch of the prop on the run.

Just for the record, The person who originally purchased my boat was flown into the factory and had his boat designed exactly how he wanted it within reason.. They even took photos for him while it was being built. SO I know this does happen. How often who knows? You have to remember, everyone is different. I have never been a fan of the Nautique, because I think the boat in my oppinion is ugly, especially the towers. That being said I know they are fantastic boats. I could have pretty much bought any boat out there, I went with my MB because it filled my needs as far as what I was looking for in a boat. Someone else may have ended up with a VLX or a Moomba XLV...or a Centurian Enzo etc...The point is, eveyone has an oppinion, their oppinion doesnt make it the right oppinion, only right for them. I drive a Chevy Tahoe, I like it, rides nice and gets me from point A to Point B. Is a Denali better? Not really, What about a Hummer? Pretty much the same chasy<--spelling. Get what you like, most of the boats out there today are 95% the same material. Anyone who wants to argue which boat is better etc...is preaching to the quire. Bu's arent better then MC Mc are not better then MB's The Enzo is not better the the Sanger V115 its all preference. In the end they all do the same thing. One's vinyl may be a mil thicker then the others guys or the engine may be 20 hp stronger etc....One guy may have a little more stock balast then the other guy.....In the end...are you having fun and is your boat performing to the level you need it to? These threads where people start bashing other brands of boats always make me laugh. I think you can find something positive and negative about any brand if you dig deep enough. Be unique, get what you like, figure out what you are looking for in a boat and find what works best for you. Because in the end whatever you come up with...you will always have that one guy who had that same boat and the engine was screwing up every weekend. Then there is the other guy who has 600 hours on his and never ever changed the oil and it still purrs like a kitten lol.

I would say about half of my customers are i/o or jet boat converts, a quarter are newbies, and the other quarter trade in Centurions, MCs, Supras, but mostly Malibu's, new v-rides and old(pre-06)VLX's.

"Alan,
How many of customers buy an MB after owning a Mastercraft, Malibu or Correct Craft?"

I had an 06 Bu VLX, sold it and bought an 07 B52.
I like the B52 a lot better. Not flaming the Bu, I just didn't like it near as much as the MB.
Al D

MB is one of the sickest boats out. Not sure why people want to try to bring them down.

Flight007, that was well put. (besides being one paragraph)

Just the nature of this forum, Big E. Plenty of Malibu bashers, Mastercraft bashers, Nautique bashers, etc. etc.
It happens in other forums occasionally too. But here it happens a LOT.

I dont know how much more "custom" MB's are than others. Whats custom about choosing from "8" different designs?

I think Brendel makes a great boat, just as do most boat builders. The two speed would just take a little getting use to IMO and agree that it probably would help on gas consumption, engine wear etc.

custom
Function:
adjective
Date:
1830

1 : made or performed according to personal order 2 : specializing in custom work

Find another manufacturer that makes a butt joined boat that costs less than $100k, I can't.
Some of the highest end cigarettes are butt fitted but they are all well over 1mil.

MB = very good boat, lots to like and 2 speed transmission is better idea than diesel boat.

Alan S. one of the better boat guys in the VA/DC area and Nautique expert(from what I hear)

Butt end as in the context of making the hull and deck come together?

If so then I can name another that is made within walking distance to MB. Wakecraft (gel and interior is only limited to your imagination for +/- 55k.)

On topic though, I just wish that it was a softer feeling shift without having to back off a sec on throttle. I'm assuming that it shifts fast and hard so it doesn't slow up much?

(Message edited by deltaboy on January 22, 2008)

I think its funny bubba owned an old dd MB and now all MB's are crap, he rode in a Moomba once with a bad tower so all Moombas are crap. A bit narrow minded if you ask me. I'll give it to ya Bo you know your history as far a old school drag boats and the history surrounding boats but you have a very scewed opinion of most boat manufactures and there products in the last few years. I had the same boat Bo had. I had it for sale around the same time Bo had his MB in the classified section. He wrote and I quote "why would you buy this boat when you can buy mine for less" and pasted a link to his boat on the board. Classy I know! I just wonder why you had so many problems with it. Everyone knows the better you take care of your stuff the longer it lasts and stays nice. The only difference between my MB when I bought it and when I sold it was rock chips in the trailer and more hours on the meter. The boat looked as good as the day I bought it as today, the day I dropped it off in prep to receive my new boat on order!
I loved my MB and I took care of it. I just grew out of it size wise. Never had any problems with it. The simple fact is I would have bought another one, but price wise I couldn't afford one with the options I Wanted.
If you don't hear anything from Bo in a while just Post an MB thread. He'll be hatin in no time!

Alan,

I supposed then that customers get to choose then if their MB is butt joined, therefore making it a "custom option". Didn't think so. Still not understanding how it is custom.

If butt fitted is so expensive, how can MB afford to do it? Especially since they are a "custom" low volume builder. Going again back to business class, a larger volume builder can spread out the cost due to a higher volume of sales. I think that if this was truly a big deal Nauty, MC and Bu's would be doing it, and it would probably be more affordable for the customer from one of these builders because they sell in high volumes. As for the Gel coat...other builders offer the same thing such as centurion, but don't claim to be a custom boat builder. I am not bashing MB, I ride in a friends B-52 V-2 every other week in the summer. I am just saying, that i have never once stepped of my X-star or my buddy's VLX and into the B-52 and thought, WOW, this thing is custom.

I never said Butt Fitting is expensive, it may be, but I am not a boat builder. All I know is that the 20 some factory workers at MB are very highly skilled at the specific jobs that they have. The deck/hull joiner guy spends all day and or night on one boat and he has decades of experience in doing so. I doubt that it takes a shoebox fit boat builder a long time to teach the group of guys that do their joining to use a rivet or screw gun.

Again, MB's are not for everyone, if you do not appreciate all of the extra touches, they are not for you. The inboard boat market is full of very well built boats, we are lucky that the builders are all as passionate as they are.

That is BS Ryan! Total BS!

They are a well built boat, just not custom in a traditional sense.

Well at least now you know of two butt joined boat companies that sell boats for under 100k ;-)

What extra touches?

what is exactly butt joined?

it's shoebox vs butt fit. Shoebox is like... well a shoebox. The deck comes over the hull and then the two pieces are screwed together at the overlap.

Butt fit there is no overlap. The two pieces sit on top of each other and then are fused together to make the entire structure one solid entity.

At least that is my 2 cent version...

I never knew it was a big deal. I have never heard of a wake/ski boat failing at that point.

Centurion uses a reverse shoe box then plexsus the shoe box joint and then uses stainless screws

Malibu also uses a shoe box then plexsus

So both are one solid entity

I have not heard the Butt fit / shoe box fit argument since Malibu gave up on the butt fit.

I have never understood the argument that butt fit is way better

Shoebox fit boats are fibreglass joined and IMO far stronger, the benefits with a butt join is that there is no need for fibreglass joining, people generally use Probond for the butt join squirted between the 2 flanges, then it is fastened (usually riveted) every 80-100mm. It is far quicker to butt join a boat than it is to do a shoebox fit as well.

I am not an engineer and do not know the merits of each method. But synergy, i do know that MB doesn't just glue and rivet the hulls together. I"m going to video my Tomcat getting built in March and i'll make sure to get that part so you can see.

I have seen 2 boats in my service dept that had their shoebox joinery separate, the symptom on the boats was a lot of water coming into the bilge while getting on plane(part of the beauty in reverse shoebox, is that it prevents this.) Both boats were less than 10 years old and neither of the "big three" manufacturers would cover under warranty. Part of the manufacturing advantage of shoebox is that the is a lot more tolerance allowed when making the hulls and liners, butt has to be perfect.

If you have any more questions about this boat building stuff go the MB factory or call MB yourself, either way, you will be very impressed.

Looks as thought this thread went a little south. I've driven MB's with the two speed tranny's and I didn't like the thunking when shifting. I didn't think the boat got on plane any quicker either. I'm sure there must be a fuel save due to the generally lower rpm rev when underway for long periods of time.

I personally like the ZR6 option better than the Excalibur/2-speed setup, however, the Excalibur/2-Speed Tomcat this summer was the first boat ever to pull an entire tournament on one tank of gas, we usually have to fill up before inverted or open class.

Onlyinboards, I would be interested to know what MB use to bond the two flanges together, Probond is a resin mix which is widely used here in Australia for bonding boats and works well, the rivets are used to hold it whilst curing but are not removed as the rub rails cover it. This is standard practice with many Australian built boats (those with a flange or butt join), and does not generally fail so I was not knocking MB.

I have little doubt that my next boat will be ZR6 and 2 speed...

awesome quote in you profile Mike B!