Articles
   
       
Pics/Video
       
Wake 101
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WakeWorld Home
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old     (OneMoreSet)      Join Date: Aug 2011       11-08-2011, 9:27 AM Reply   
Looking for a new boat - and considering a few different used models, also thinking about the epic 23v.

Heard abit about the 23v when they came out in 06/07 i think. I know the basics about them but no first hand knowledge.

Seems like they went through some kind of redesign recently too - I know the original 23v were like 3000lbs, now they seem to be closer to 4000...? Also went away from volvo engines to merc.

I'd like to know some firsthand knowledge from owners or people who ride them. Quality, longevity, mechanical issues, interior, wake, handling - the basics. Also general info on the different generational changes.

I've heard some rumors about how they dont plane due to the hull type but find that hard to believe.

Cheers
Old     (PrecisionStorage)      Join Date: Sep 2010       11-08-2011, 10:27 AM Reply   
Not sure where you are located but I have a good friend who is selling his '08 Epic 23v here is San Diego.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       11-08-2011, 10:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Also went away from volvo engines to merc.
Every one I have been in/behind has been great.... just try and avoid the 8.1 volvo if you can
Old     (OneMoreSet)      Join Date: Aug 2011       11-08-2011, 12:23 PM Reply   
What is the issue with the 8.1volvo?
That seems to be what most of the older ones (2007-2010s) were running I think they switched to merc for 2011. Other than being non-standard in the wakeboat space - what were the issues with them?
Cheers,
Old     (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-08-2011, 2:38 PM Reply   
The issue with the Volvo engines was oil starvation. When the boat leaned, the oil couldn't get picked up. They switched to Mercs in 2008 or 2009. All 2009 Epics had Mercs.

The original ballast was 4000lbs and was pumped in. The new ballast system is gravity fed and is 3600lbs. The hull and deck have not changed.

They plane just fine. Not sure where you heard that one.
Old     (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-08-2011, 6:21 PM Reply   
Since I ride behind one, I don't want to ride anything else! The only thing I hate about the boat is how much fuel it needs. It's pain in the a s s! I accepted it because of the wake. It's just sick! The boat is sick too!
Old     (fuzzball147)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 8:46 AM Reply   
I have an '08 with the Merc motor. I've had it for two seasons now and I must say it has been great. The only thing I've had to change is a fill pump for the right rear tank and it took me all of 20 munites, most of that being shrinkwrapping the wiring because it has the Tsunami cartridge type pumps that you just twist out and replace. I love the foam floor, and so does everyone else that has been in it. I'm in the process of trying different things to insulate the cooler in the floor (which is awesome) because it gets so hot here the ice melts too fast. The wake with no ballast is great for beginner to intermediate and it grows huge when you start filling the tanks. I've also got the surf wake dialed in and it is awesome. The boat is very sensitive to where your crew is sitting, but no more that most other boats. As far as planing, the 8.1 will yank my boat on plane so fast I have to give a disclaimer and warning to the occupants before I go, otherwise everyone ends up in a pile at the back of the boat. You will find a very dedicated group of owners to pull info from on here, don't hesitate to ask your questions.
Old     (OneMoreSet)      Join Date: Aug 2011       11-09-2011, 1:44 PM Reply   
Thanks for the input guys.

So it seems like the switch to merc happened mostly for the 2008 line. Did they also switch at that time to the merc cruise (forget what its called) with GPS and launch control, or did they use perfect pass for a while. Do all the merc cruise units have GPS and launch control or is that different/separate.

Still trying to figure out when the hull weight increased. The website now lists 2012 dryweight at 4500lbs... thats a huge increase over the ~3200lbs they were quoting in 06+ models. Not sure what they could have changed to affect the weight so much??

So the "old style" pump based ballast was 4000lbs - using tsunami type pumps - one fill/one empy I assume? 1200gph variety? Any valves used on that side of things or just through a bottom of boat mushroom pickup or rear of boat through hull intake?

Did they switch to the purevert gravity style in 09 or 10?

Thanks!
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-09-2011, 1:54 PM Reply   
They have 1 fill, 1 drain for each tank - all Tsunami 1200's. The fill pumps are located on the transom and have screens on them so you don't suck up debris. 1 thru-hull for each located right above the wake plate.
Old     (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       11-09-2011, 2:26 PM Reply   
Epic was the official towboat of 2011 USA Wakeboard Nationals. We did not use the 23V but the new 21V which was extremely impressive. Both had the new Merc 8.2L with catalytic converters and I was very impressed how fuel efficient they were over the old big blocks. There is no replacement for displacement, but to bring those torque monsters up to todays technology with O2 sensors and a real fuel injection, Amazing is all I can say. Indmar, PCM and Ilmore do not have this engine and is pushing the 6.0 and 6.2 upgrades and they don't even compare. You have to supercharge one of those other engines to get that much tourque.

The wake was one of the biggest I have ever seen in a 21 footer because it still had a 3200# ballast sytem. The duel rudder system lets the boat back up in both directions and should be on every inboard vdrive ever made by all companies. One of the boats had a neoprene interior that was black/tan still blows my mind because it was not hot to the touch on 100 degree day sunlight - I still have not figured that one out.
Old     (fuzzball147)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 2:50 PM Reply   
JD, the towing system is called Smart Tow. It is hands down the easiest system for anyone to learn how to drive/pull a rider. It works completely off of GPS and all of the start/tow/turn off is electronic. You can use the key if you want but there is no need because you just turn it to the on position and hit the start button on the handle. It works better if you use the start/stop button because there is no interuption to the power, therefor you don't lose your GPS fix. It still works the other way when your buddy uses the key, like he's used to, it just takes a minute or so to reaquire so the speed will work. There are 5 launch cycles that pull you slowly or very quickly out of the water. It works on a power curve where all you have to do is slam the throttle foward because the program controls the speed from the time you hit it until you pull back when they fall. It's great for new drivers because they can concentrate completely on driving the boat, not trying to ease up the speed until the perfect pass takes over. I taught my wife to pull in about 10 minutes and my friends wife (who's boat has perfect pass which she won't drive) in about 15 minutes. It's a really neat system that has worked really well for us. I'm not saying perfect pass is bad, I drive my buddy's 21V, because we switch boats every other time out, and I like it. I'm just saying that Smart Tow does exactly what it's advertised to does it very well.
Old     (Eppies07epic)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-09-2011, 4:16 PM Reply   
Yes Timmy is right 3 tanks 6 pumps. Tsunami 1200. I have a 2007 8.1 Volvo.....not 1 problem. Yes they had a problem with the oil pick up out of the hole, all boats with this motor is what I understand. Volvo fix the problem with changing out the oil pans with ones with baffles in them(oil pans). I think it was a recall by Volvo. I was at the plant in Vivian in may and saw some boats without decks on them. The new quick fill system tanks have baffles in them too. I think that is probably some of the added weight. The Merc my weigh a little more than the Volvo too.
Old     (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-10-2011, 3:02 AM Reply   
Old     (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-10-2011, 3:15 AM Reply   
Gravity ballast = best thing in the world. Les than a minute to fill and about 30 sec. to drain
8.1L = awesome power, perfect for the boat, absolutely no complain except for the fuel
Smart tow = dead solide
Smart craft systeme = wow
Trimplade = so convenient
boat itself = big boat with so much place, awesome floor, suprising sound system, impressive handling
I love everything about the boat, especialy the wake

N.B. My friend got a 2009 210 but felt in love with the Epic wake! NO comparison!
Old     (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-10-2011, 7:07 AM Reply   
I forgot, the boat is sick in rough water. It's like an ice breaker! When we took the boat out at the end of this season, i had to drive it in 4-5 feet waves. Soooo much impressive! I was totaly wet after the 20 minutes ride but had a blast!
Old     (Eppies07epic)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-10-2011, 8:28 AM Reply   
One more thing to consider is customer service. I was down in Vivian Louisana(at the plant) in May. From the owners, plant manager, master mechanic, engineer, to the plant workers. Everyone was easy to talk to, and bent over backwards for me. Thanks again Karen, Phil, Gary, Brian, Matt, and everyone down at the plant.
Old     (OneMoreSet)      Join Date: Aug 2011       11-10-2011, 8:56 AM Reply   
That's good to know about customer service.
So when did they transition production down to Louisiana? Didnt they first start off in SanDiego production and then move to Kelowna?

Cheers,
Old     (Eppies07epic)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-10-2011, 10:25 AM Reply   
Yes, SanDiego then to Canada. I think in Jan. to Louisianna.
Old     (0klahoma_Breakdown)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-10-2011, 11:37 AM Reply   
I am curious about these too. JD, hope this isnt considered a hijack but does anyone know what is up with their website? I want to learn more about the brand, dealer locations etc and none of the links work. The web site has said "new website coming this summer" for a long time as well. I really like the 21v and think it will boil down to that or an F21 when I buy but it worries me that there is not more attention paid to at least basic marketing.
Old     (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-10-2011, 11:48 AM Reply   
I am in no way an Epic expert, but I believe that some of of the older hulls had an issue with the port wake. I'm not sure what year or model it was, but it seemed that no matter what was tried (weighting variations, rudder toe in/out, etc) the port wake just would not clean up....basically just a bad hull design) I know of one person in my area that got so fed up with it this summer that he was on the verge of selling it (not sure if he ever did though).

As I stated above, I'm not an expert on these boats, and am not trying to bash them, just saying do your research and make sure you don't end up with a wake that won't get clean on the port side.
Old     (OneMoreSet)      Join Date: Aug 2011       11-10-2011, 12:37 PM Reply   
No prob Brian, thats why i started the thread so we can find out abit more about these boats.

Jay- I've been searching all over and saw that was a common problem and made me abit leary esp. since I'm goofy. Kind of seemed like they figured it out eventually but the people who were having probs are typically all experienced wakeboarders and know how to setup a boat so that's concerning.

I've been boatless for a couple years now and riding behind various friends, and that's the single biggest issue for me is not being able to jump on a dialed in wake on alot of people's boats. So I dont wanna pick something up that has inherent issues with getting what we all buy these thing for!

I agree they should do a better job on their basic marketing - they are still using the line implying its so much lighter given the resin infused hull, but seems they are heavier than an lsv or 230nauty now...

Also been trying to get on the owner's forum which is a bit of a pain so far... So I really appreciate everyone's responses!

Cheers,
Old     (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-10-2011, 7:01 PM Reply   
We had this problem with the port side wake. We finally found that the wake plade was not straight. We fix it and it's ok. But the port side wake is absolutely easier to wash. I think every slammed boat wash at this weight and speed. Plus, the hull is pretty narrow and made to sink and create a wake. If ou want to slammed it, you got to go faster. I don't load it because I'm use to ride around 23 mph or a bit more. The boat is really sensitive to the weight in the boat but solide to the rider. I never felt any speed change on a straight line run. I got a little vid of me rinding behind my cousin 2011 23V. It can gives you a nice view of the shape and size of the wake. 23,2 mph, 2/3 front, 1/4 starboard, 2/3 portside, 5 peoples, 75 feet rope. I don't show the all potential of the wake because of my 210 ass but.... anyway, it's a great shot of the wake!

Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-10-2011, 7:15 PM Reply   
These are my experiences with the 23V:

The wake is a bit inconsistent, If you ride fast its better (26mph+) but still a bit finicky. When its on the wake is awesome and kicks like a mule but the toe side wake can boot you or grab you depending on how it is feeling. What I find a bit less "dialed" than I would like is to set a good wake board wake you one run rear tank at 1/2, the other at 1/4 and the front full + hand fill a 400 pound sack in the isle. If the boat requires more such a forward bias why not make the rear tanks smaller and the front tank bigger? The boat is long and skinny like the SAN220 and tends to roll around as more aggressive riders cut hard messing the wake up.

It is also quite a wet boat where the slab sides throws the spray up in the front, any wind and you get pretty wet when sitting in the cabin. The boat is very high sided but the floor is set so the cabin is pretty shallow leaving the occupants exposed to wind and spray.

Surf wake is very short and steep with lots of push but not much pocket.
Old     (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       11-11-2011, 9:58 AM Reply   
On my second Epic and love mine. I agree with most of what is said. Had 2011 and now a 2012 and love the new gravity fill. My 2011 didn't have that so if you are buying used get a 2012 with the gravity fill. So much easier. The 2012 (at least mine) doesn't have a cooler in the floor like the 2011 and older styles. We don't mind that much due to functionality of that. Ice melted way too fast anyway. That is my only complaint! REALLY.

I love the 8.2 with the O2 sensors. It is a monster engine and it jumps out of the water when I want to go. The SmartTow is idiot proof and we all love that. The wake, well it is just plain good!
JD if you are in the Midwest hit me up....mine is for sale and I would cut you a killer deal if you really are interested. Not to hijack the thread but wanted you to know. (Black and silver boat, called Tinman from Epic, very nice looking have pics if interested)

You CAN make a solid surf wake with these. I know they may be a bit steeper than other boats but with the right weight setup you can get a killer wake.
Old     (hockeysk8er222)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-13-2011, 2:58 PM Reply   
Does anyone know if there was a way of fixing the issue with oil starvation on the Volvo engines?
Old     (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       11-13-2011, 4:58 PM Reply   
Yes, im pretty sure the volvo motors were recalled and a baffled oil pan was installed.

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 8:08 PM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2019 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us