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Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-17-2009, 8:07 PM Reply   
I don't understand this at all. Why do so many beginner riders buy a pro model board? I see more and more people doing it. When there are more intermediate boards then ever. I get buying stuff to support a favorite rider but riding their board when you are learning just lets you use bad and form bad habits.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-17-2009, 8:10 PM Reply   
bad habits can come from both beginner and advance level boards. i tell them to buy upper level boards, one that they can advance on.
Old     (h2oterroristo)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-17-2009, 8:19 PM Reply   
To me it's simple - If I'm genuinely interested in something at a serious level, it's worth it to buy pro-level equipment. Wake/kite/surf/snow boards- all gear I've paid top dollar for and been satisfied instead of buying a beginner/cheaper set-up only to return for a better/typically more expensive set-up later.
Old    justinh            08-17-2009, 8:20 PM Reply   
"Intermediate" boards are usually Pro boards of past years. Some boards are more specialized than others, but just because it is a pro board does not mean that is easier or harder to ride than others.
Old     (ericdizzzle)      Join Date: May 2009       08-17-2009, 8:36 PM Reply   
ur gonna be spending more money in the long run anyway, so ur a beginner and grow out of the board ur gonna be dumping that board and going to buy another, "Buy nice, not twice"
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-17-2009, 8:41 PM Reply   
the good thing about a intermediate shape is that it lets the rider develop their own style and get used to riding. and then when they figure out what they want in a board then they can throw down the big bucks and get a board that fits their description
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       08-17-2009, 8:43 PM Reply   
Because those "pro" boards will most likely be sold as "beginner" boards about three model years later!
Old     (cheesydog)      Join Date: Mar 2009       08-17-2009, 8:47 PM Reply   
I reckon a board is a board, makes almost no difference to a beginner, asides from maybe a center fin to help them balance.

The only thing you could say is that a pro level board is a waste of money on a complete beginner since they could just as easily learn on a cheap board from a season or 2 ago.
Old     (ffmedic)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-17-2009, 9:30 PM Reply   
who cares...they should be able to buy what ever board they want...its there money...do you want someone telling you u shouldnt have the best epuipment because your just learning..oh wait.. I dont understnad why people that are not pros riding pro boards..this thread is lame
Old     (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-17-2009, 9:35 PM Reply   
You can learn on anything. And you should buy what you want since its your money.
Old     (bogartsomeday)      Join Date: Mar 2009       08-17-2009, 10:53 PM Reply   
Its unfortunate that someone is actually bothered by beginners buying pro model boards! A pro model board is typically a "signature" board, so that being said, the pro model board is shaped to handle like that specific pro wants it to ride. So its not like its "off limits" to beginner riders. So what if its a 3 stage rocker or continuous or any other feature that a board may have. Im not understanding the whole "bad habits" argument Scott....im sure not many pro have "bad habits" so idk how their board would create bad habits. And besides, a board is not gonna create anymore bad habits that whoever is teaching (if the teaching is bad). But i completely disagree that a board will cause bad habits....
Old     (tx51210)      Join Date: Aug 2009       08-18-2009, 5:00 AM Reply   
Most beginner boards are bundled with torture devices disguised as boots. The beginner boards also tend to weigh more and can really tire you out fast when you are trying to learn. I have found that a lightweight more responsive board can often compensate for fewer or smaller fins.
Old     (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-18-2009, 5:16 AM Reply   
If your just learning, the little quirks of a pro model board aren't very apparent. If you plan on sticking with it, why not get high level equipment? You won't outgrow your board's ability, and it saves you the trouble of having to buy a 2nd if not a third board when advancing from beginner, to intermediate, to advanced stuff. I taught a TON of people how to ride on my '05 Parks and they didn't have any trouble on it.
Old     (mx118)      Join Date: Dec 2002       08-18-2009, 5:51 AM Reply   
I buy the board that has the coolest picture on it.
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-18-2009, 6:42 AM Reply   
I didn't say that it bothers me I just don't understand. It is true that many of those boards get pushed down a companies product line and may one day be a beginner board. For the most part these boards are designed with a few exceptions to be faster or got more pop land softer in the flats. What I often see is when people ride a "better" board for them they get lazier about their cut or edging through because the board does a little more they do a little less. I don't care what you buy or how you ride I will pull you as long as you are having fun. I don't care if you ever get better or never want input. I was just simply curious.
Old     (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       08-18-2009, 7:44 AM Reply   
As to why, because they can afford it and for those that just forked out the big bucks for a wakeboat, the gear is a drop in the bucket or is thrown in as an incentive. Bottom line the deck is not going to make a big difference in riding but if anything a 'pro' model deck may get them down the path to a more proper technique because most high end decks are set up to rely more on the rails and a lot less on the fin(s) to edge than the entry boards. Also the high end binders have comfort value any rider can appreciate.
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       08-18-2009, 7:46 AM Reply   
Because they want to...
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-18-2009, 8:18 AM Reply   
Scott when was the last time you paid for a board? :-)
Old     (spearing)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-18-2009, 9:57 AM Reply   
That is awesome these beginners support the sport and the pro wakeboarders, i assume the pros get a percentage of the sales?

very cool :-)
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-18-2009, 10:02 AM Reply   
Does that mean a person new to wakeboarding can't buy a loaded X-Star or VLX or any other new boat. You mean I gotta buy an older boat first.

I'd rather buy a good board at the begining then buy some crap and then have to learn on that piece only to come back the next year and buy something better because I have improved and out grown the S### stick. ( sorry long sentence)
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-18-2009, 10:14 AM Reply   
When I'm geting into something new, I want the latest in technology for that sport. My very first board was a Premier. Eric Schmaltz happen to be working the pro shop. I asked for his opinion on a good board, and that's what he sold me.

I don't really believe in advanced boards or beginner boards. There are a couple of exceptions, but for the most part it's all preference.

I think it's funny that people get butt-hurt over newbies buying the best stuff.
Old     (rmcronin)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-18-2009, 11:02 AM Reply   
Boards labeled "beginner/intermediate" are shapes often just as advanced as pro models.
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-18-2009, 12:03 PM Reply   
I'd rather see a pro model - recognizable model in someone's racks than the Dick's package deal
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-18-2009, 2:35 PM Reply   
Ewing, You know I can't answer that

I will also say that I do ride a pro model currently. I just couldn't spend that amount of money when team boards are typically as good and a more neutral shape. Just preference though. I would ride a piece of plywood if that is what felt good and worked. For those that don't think so I did rocked a chick board for a whole season because it was working better for me to rebuild on. To all those spending money in the industry at whatever level thanks and keep up the good work.

To those that answer just to argue you SUCK as always!

To those that answered as if they cared to THANKS may endless butter surround you
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-18-2009, 2:59 PM Reply   
I hope to get down your way this fall sir.
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-18-2009, 3:47 PM Reply   
I have progressed faster with a pro board than I ever did on a beginner board.

Yes, the face plants hurt a little more when you catch edge but again, that is what boarding is... Learning on the "right" equipment.
Old     (mattjj23)      Join Date: May 2008       08-18-2009, 6:06 PM Reply   
You can grow into it. Why waste the money on a beginner board when you will end up buying a more advanced board a year or less later. Go big or go home!
Old     (wkbrdr)      Join Date: Jan 2006       08-18-2009, 6:25 PM Reply   
most beginner boards all past year pro model boards
Old     (snork)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-18-2009, 7:27 PM Reply   
If I'm going to spend the money I'm going to get something that will perform like a pro not a old used up, retired and antiquated HO
Old     (rubin)      Join Date: May 2006       08-18-2009, 8:58 PM Reply   
shouldnt we support people supporting pro riders? not bash them?
Old     (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-19-2009, 9:54 AM Reply   
Bad day on the boat Sun? As I posted in your "Dawn patrol" thread I can tell the difference between both of my pro models on catching a edge, or stability at times. I don't go down on the Murray near as much as the Byerly. Sometimes the driver gets frustrated having to come back to get your arse when you fall 3 times in a pass ,when you would not have if youre riding a board that's your level. Am I close?
Old     (wakeboardgeezer)      Join Date: May 2009       08-19-2009, 10:54 AM Reply   
I have to agree completely with you Scott.

Every rider is different so I guess it's case by case but if we are talking about the newbie/beginner then,...

Sorry guys,

I don't think it's the "Pro" versus "Beginner" board thingy for the new rider do you?

Most all boards are a little different, it seams to me that its mostly about "function" and how you prefer to ride and your expertise level, isn't it?

Obviously if you are the ShizNit you can ride about anything and perform fairly well but does that actually apply to the newbie/beginner?

If wakeboards were all the same, with similar features it wouldn't matter what everybody was riding but we all know that most choose different boards for different reasons, right?

Most riders I know have way more than one or two boards so chances are the rider that stays with this sport will end up buying several boards regardless. This sport needs to grow,.. the more boards people buy the better as far as I'm concerned (but I could be wrong).

All that go big or stay home stuff is BS for the very beginner, I think. I mean, come on guys, they are just trying to get up and stay up for a few minutes without face planting.

I might be wrong but I would not underestimate the market for less aggressive riders, especially beginners who just want to have a little fun and don't necessarily need to sky to the moon to accomplish that.

If you take away that type of rider or any style rider that means fewer sales, less buisness etc etc (but again, I could be wrong).

Generally speaking it seems to me that the newbie probably needs allot of "Flat water" to start out with and a very stable riding, more catch free shape, and one that is easier than most to get up on deep water starts.

It is possible for some newbies to get up and do some riding on advanced boards but I don't think we really do a "brand new" rider any favors by putting them on an advanced board that has radical rails, an abrupt 3-stage rocker etc etc.

These boards can cause the newbie to do more face planting than learning how to ride. It often (but not always) increases the learning curve for the new rider and at worse some quit because the board is contributing to more falls and less riding which = less fun.

But then again maybe none of that is true and it doesn't matter what board any of us ride.
Old     (ericdizzzle)      Join Date: May 2009       08-19-2009, 12:21 PM Reply   
doesn't matter what board your riding, if ur a beginner your gonna be learning the fundamentals of riding, if they want their own board, then go ahead, i just think that if the person sticks with boarding why not buy nice, instead of twice
Old     (krock)      Join Date: Aug 2009       08-19-2009, 12:59 PM Reply   
i buy older model pro boards for less money believe in start with good board and accel i have a hyperlite belmont 141 2002 and love it
Old     (nautiquetrevo)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-19-2009, 8:20 PM Reply   
Scott,

Does it really matter what you ride as long as your having fun riding it. Stop complaining (wondering or questioning) what other people are doing and just wakeboard.

P.S. don't start a thread about one thing and then change your story halfway through. Stick to your guns or don't post at all.
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-19-2009, 9:46 PM Reply   
trevo,
If you want to try and call someone out make sure that is what you are doing. My "story" hasn't changed at all through this thread or any other on here. I said don't understand and still don't. I do have some reasons now though. A few of which make sense others are just people trying to stir the pot like your punk ass. DING DING
Old     (nautiquetrevo)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-19-2009, 10:12 PM Reply   
I'm pretty sure you are the one stirring the pot with one of the most meaningless post I have ever seen on here. I'm not going to try to argue with you about something that is so pointless. People buy what they want to buy not what some punk ass on wakeworld says they should buy (or thinks they should buy).
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-19-2009, 10:17 PM Reply   
Trevo,
That is what you came back with REALLY? You didn't make any valid point and YOUR BOAT IS UGLY Sleep on that. LOL
Old     (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-19-2009, 10:28 PM Reply   
^^^^ i take you guys know each other^^^^ kinda obvious since you both ride the same lake. but if you dont i wish i could be there the next time you guys cross paths on your home lake, ding ding.

anyway, if your brand new to the sport, imo i feel you should just get a hammy down or something cheap just to make sure your into it. then step it up. and if your really down for the sport go big out of the gate. get something that will perform and last. advanced riders notice specific things about boards, beginers not so much but with time and practice they wont be a beginner any more. and like stated above buy what you like. also, along the lines of buying pro model boards, what about bindings? have you ever put your dawgs in some plastic entry level bindings? they are awful.
Old     (nautiquetrevo)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-19-2009, 10:30 PM Reply   
Oh no because i'm really concerned with what you think of my boat. I'm sure your 04 vlx is a beauty.

Congrats on arguing with a 19 year old on wakeworld how about you grow up and become a 31 year old some day.

Beginners do not care about your "expert opinion" if you want to call it that and further more I think everyone is well aware there are intermediate and pro model boards. It's not a big secret. People can make up there own minds about what fits them best that is my point (do you understand my point, it is clearly labeled)

Where is it proven that a pro model board will teach you bad habits?
Old     (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-19-2009, 10:34 PM Reply   
oops, i read that wrong i dont know a thing about florida sorry.
so in that case, lets get it on!!!

trevo, sick 210 btw
Old     (nautiquetrevo)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-19-2009, 10:57 PM Reply   
Thanks Bryan

Nothing against your vlx, i'm sure it looks sick
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-20-2009, 12:31 AM Reply   
Upload
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-20-2009, 7:17 AM Reply   
^^^original
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-20-2009, 8:12 AM Reply   
I love this place! It seems to be the only place on the planet people argue just for the sake of it and not even answer the question posted. If you think my question is lame don't post. Or post and get blasted. That is usually the way it works if you step into the ring you get punched on.
David Miller,
I didn't see your question before. No my day on the lake was great! Worked on my switch toe stuff spins and cleaning up the landing of my crow. I don't understand your last question about a rider falling or driver turning around. But if you fall 50 times I don't care and neither will most people in the boat. That is just part of learning. We are out all weekend and everyday the week after for a few hours if you want o come out.
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-20-2009, 9:03 AM Reply   
Scott it must be tough to be the worst rider on your lake:-)
Old     (radikal)      Join Date: Feb 2004       08-20-2009, 9:12 AM Reply   
why do non experianced kid, want to have sex with experienced MILFS ?

its kind of the same thing, because Ride the pro to be a pro !
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       08-20-2009, 9:33 AM Reply   
Because Pro's Sell Boards, Same thing happens in every industry.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-20-2009, 9:38 AM Reply   
just like in Body Building and Nascar! Whut?
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       08-20-2009, 9:39 AM Reply   
What else would you buy???
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-20-2009, 9:43 AM Reply   
lol...j-rod
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-20-2009, 7:08 PM Reply   
John,
Good news for me I moved up a spot this year to second worst rider! Although I am starting to think this place has some ringers! LOL
Old     (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-20-2009, 7:15 PM Reply   
Scott, Were riding sunday on the Winter park chain but I'd like to grab a set or so on Sat if you have room. After I ride that will move you up the list also..
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-20-2009, 7:23 PM Reply   
David,
If you can come out Saturday we are going to be riding dawn to dusk but so will everyone else on that lake practicing for Worlds. Come on out. Oh and the list only counts for people that either own a house there or live there. Its really more of a joke then anything.
John,
What happened to those pics? Hope you make it down here for some warm winter riding.
Old     (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-20-2009, 7:33 PM Reply   
Hell that's worth just sitting & watching! I'll wait for a less crowded day. You going to Park's premiere @ hardrock?
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-20-2009, 7:39 PM Reply   
David, Its hard to get better if you don't ride with guys that are but I get it since I am almost the worst rider on my lake. The Parks thing for sure!
Old     (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-20-2009, 7:49 PM Reply   
NO, I need to come out,I was thinking about riders getting ready that's all. Lil dave & I are going Fri. I'll see you there.

(Message edited by Otown_dave on August 20, 2009)
Old     (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-20-2009, 7:56 PM Reply   
as far as im concerened let them buy what they want. im not a greater ride. but i had an 08 lyman with 08 shanes before i could even clear the wake. i knew what i liked. and that board fir the description. so i bought it. and for the record. it wasnt my first board i had an 06 synergy before it
Old     (liquid_force_girl)      Join Date: Aug 2009       08-20-2009, 8:21 PM Reply   
Who really gives a damn what someone buys... Its not your money why do you care
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-20-2009, 8:38 PM Reply   
Scott I will ask photog about pics...

Glad to hear you moved up one spot...you lake is loaded with some of the best riders in the industry.

I think the question you meant to ask is "Why do people buy a pro board and immediately expect to be better riders or ride like the pro that helped to design that board."
Old     (liv2board)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-21-2009, 7:09 AM Reply   
I am new to wake this year and I bought an 09 watson with o/t transit boots, does this mean I am that guy? oh well, I liked the look of the watson, I love to ride and new I was in it for the long haul so i might as well buy a good board.

On the other hand Andy hit the nail on the head. People buy product in every industry because thats what they see the pros with. I rep/ride for some companies in the snowboard industry like Flow snowboards, ripzone and sessions clothing and I can tell you that when Antti Autti won x games in 05 his boards, bindings, boots and the clothing he was wearing flew off the shelf. Thats just the way it is. Also look at entry level equipment in any industry, it is not the most eye catching stuff in the world. These days it is all about style, graphics and crazy colors (not my cup of tea). Take a Shane and put it against an entry level Dicks Dicks Sporting goods board and ask a person which they like better.

Being in the snowboard industry I can also tell you that there is a huge difference in quality from entry level to pro stuff, and you get what you pay for. Our pro models ride a whole lot better, but I agree that unless you are a very strong rider you wont tell the difference. It wont make you ride worse or give bad habits, your just not going to get the maximum out of that board. I had a guy show up at a resort, he had never been on a snowboard but he bought our Team board ($470), Team bindings ($500) and boots ($330) so a total of $1300, bravo to him he is helping the industry grow by dumping money in it.
Old     (radrachel)      Join Date: May 2009       08-22-2009, 12:40 AM Reply   
Scott, I'm tired of reading about what a WW Hater you are! Cocky bastard, I will come to your house and kick your ass!
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-22-2009, 6:48 PM Reply   
Rachel,
You should let people know you are joking because you sound crazy otherwise
Old     (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-22-2009, 6:57 PM Reply   
Called you today Scott, Got your answering machine
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-22-2009, 7:04 PM Reply   
David,
I called the number that I thought was yours(you didn't leave number) I left message for you to call me and left my number. I didn't even get your message till 8 tonight and I don't know why. We thought it was weird after seeing you guys at Hard Rock last night
Old     (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-22-2009, 7:24 PM Reply   
I'll catch up with you a Worlds,...
Old     (anthemwake)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-22-2009, 8:18 PM Reply   
"just like in Body Building and Nascar!"

Hahaha I just saw this...well played, sir...
Old     (radrachel)      Join Date: May 2009       08-23-2009, 3:25 PM Reply   
Yeah Scott, I thought about that afterwards, but it was too late. Hi everyone, not a crazy ex or anything! See everyone next week at Worlds.

Old     (radrachel)      Join Date: May 2009       08-23-2009, 3:26 PM Reply   
By the way, I like beginner boards, as I'm a beginner.
Old     (reki34)      Join Date: Aug 2009       08-23-2009, 11:30 PM Reply   
I'm kinda with Justin and David on this one. I ride CWB for the most other then my Hyperlite and I'll be damned if my Pures dont closely resemble (if not identical to) past years Absolute boards. I am one that believes in beginner gear and progress. Yeah a beginner will drop down on a proboard but then a year or so later their going to be wanting a different board. I have never in any sport I have taken to seen anyone stick to the saying I will grow into it. Other then my R/C Gas Helis. But then again thats a difference of a few thousand dollars getting into the hobby. And even then we deter new pilots on then notation of "growing into it" Anywho.. Its their moneys.. I learned on a Tempest and am greatful that I did. Made getting up and riding so much more enjoyable.

Reki

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