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Old     (thisisbrians)      Join Date: May 2008       06-28-2008, 7:05 PM Reply   
When I decided to get serious about this sport, I took it that knee injuries inevitably came with the territory. I'm still a beginner, and have just come to the point of thinking about doing my first invert(s). I have toyed with the thought of wearing knee braces as a preventive measure...I am 19 now and I would like to be at this for awhile. Any thoughts on this and how effective knee braces might be at preventing knee injuries?
Old     (da_kamp)      Join Date: Jan 2008       06-28-2008, 7:37 PM Reply   
DO IT !

i just busted my knee landing my first frontroll. Not fun at all.

You shouldn't have to worry about it if your knees haven't given you problems in the past unless you go huuuuge or something
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-28-2008, 9:15 PM Reply   
IMHO The first step towards a healthy long wakeboard career is having CONTROL over your board. This control will keep you from entering the "huckfest" zone. This is the typical progression step where you start learning and landing inverts without the control of the board. What generally happens is you start to get cocky thinking "yah, I am the shizz since I got a few flips in the bag".

To keep from entering this "zone" I would learn the basics...well. This includes: at least most 180's, switch w2w (at least hs), 360 or 2, Methods,and a hs bs 180. (most of those with grabs)
Old     (thisisbrians)      Join Date: May 2008       06-28-2008, 9:37 PM Reply   
M-Dizzle, you bring up a great point. And I am trying to build a broad base before I end up doing something stupid. So since the beginning (last September), I've worked both HS and TS. Last weekend, I landed my first HS w2w jumps and grabs, today I landed my first w2w TS. I also work on riding switch quite a bit.

But I think we can both agree that no matter how much board control a rider has, the risk of injury increases with inverts, and even pros aren't immune to this. Lots of pros' knees are shot, and just about every rider I know that can do more than a couple of inverts has had a knee injury of some kind.

So my original question still stands.
Old     (sjmedic)      Join Date: May 2004       06-29-2008, 7:53 AM Reply   
After two knee injuries and two surgeries...I used the CTi Vapor2 while the knees were still kind of loose. I rode the stationary bike and did light squats...building up to heavier squats until the knees could take it. Once they were properly stabilized, I do not use the braces at all. The CTi braces just felt lighter and more compact while still feeling real secure. By the way, I am 45 and have had no knee problems for the past 2 years...knock on wood.
Old     (red220)      Join Date: Apr 2008       06-29-2008, 8:17 AM Reply   
wickedwakes your my inspiration...I went big as I love to do and landed wrong I thought it was just a sprain, so I iced it alot and worked out..lunges, leg press, extensions, etc. As time went on I started to stretch it more and more and I noticed that I couldn't fully bend my knee backwards, and I had a sharp pain. I went and got an MRI and of course my ACL was torn. I bought a CTi OTS Pro Sport online and it seems to work but slides a bit, does your brace slide? I followed the directions as far as which strap to tighten first and so forth but I still end up adjusting often. I plan on getting the surgery when work slows down.
Old     (jpaul)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-29-2008, 8:23 AM Reply   
I think fitness is the best ways to prevent injury. Look at Rusty, he credits strength training for the reason he has had no major injurys. Dont't go out and bulk up, find a few exercises and do em in light weight/high reps for about six weeks at a time then find a few others to do. If you have to think about picking up some braces i wouldn't, but if it keeps bothering you buy em.
Old     (sjmedic)      Join Date: May 2004       06-29-2008, 3:04 PM Reply   
Jared, the CTI did tend to slide a bit, but if you use a neoprene underlay or just get it real tight (loosen it after the set) it stays put. I have ridden with many people who swear by the braces, and it seems to be more of a piece-of-mind thing after a while. Nothing like getting fitted for your brace, adn having it made for your leg. Out of the box braces work pretty well for most people, but I just couldn't get one to fit me right. They are worth the extra expense (custom fitted) and you have them in case you want to try something new and need a little extra strap-on courage.
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-29-2008, 8:11 PM Reply   
Yup, I am rocking dual CTI's personally. The right is for a ACL surgery that is about 1 1/2 yrs out right now. The other is for prevention. I never realized how bad of shape my knees were in until I got one fixed. Now I am sitting at 26yrs old with arthritis and other knee issues related to years of sports use and abuse.

For those thinking about wearing them preventively, remember... if you fall hard enough SOMETHING will break. With knee braces the next thing to go would either be a tib fib fracture and/or a femur break (often times both are worse than an ACL tear).
Old     (thisisbrians)      Join Date: May 2008       06-30-2008, 3:42 AM Reply   
Hmm...I suppose I'll just go the strength training route then. I have been doing strength training for the past 4 years now, more recently with a focus on wakeboarding, and I am also an avid skateboarder (plyometrics, anyone?)...I'll just pick up some new knee exercises and start mixing it up.
Old     (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-30-2008, 10:02 PM Reply   
I have one, never use it. probably should. had an ACL done in 92. I am now 46 years young and still wakeboarding, wakeskating and wakesurfing. granted I dont do inverts, gotta go to work on Mon. to pay the boat payment. I think its a good idea to wear one if you have a weak knee, otherwise ride em till their broke. lol the good ones are pretty expensive.
Old     (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Dallas , TX       07-07-2008, 1:16 PM Reply   
From the time the ACL is torn to the time you are back on the water what is the real long & short time?

I just tore mine.
Old     (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       07-07-2008, 1:27 PM Reply   
6 months post surgery with full clearance to ride from the doctor and PT would be pretty quick. 9 months and almost everyone will be cleared. I worked my ass off in physical therapy and was cleared after 6 months so if you want to get back on the water sooner, it's definitely a possibility.
Old     (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-07-2008, 1:31 PM Reply   
unless you have a bum knee...I say ride without it. This will help build up strength in the joint. I shy away from any braces if I'm not already hurt because I feel like the extra support will over the long term create a dependence on the brace.

My $0.02
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-07-2008, 2:40 PM Reply   
Gene, it depends on a SOOOO many different factors which include: Age, doctor, method, type of tear, atrophy etc. I was cleared at a little over 4 1/2 months but was at the VERY shortest of the spectrum. I still waited close to 9 mos before digging back into the old bag o tricks. The cadaver grafts have been shown to take anywhere from 18 mos to 24 mos for a full graft so keep that in mind when your riding.
Old     (jlembas)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-07-2008, 3:07 PM Reply   
What is the best brand of knee brace for wakeboarding? I'm not too found of the Don Joys (have a custom now and it sucks). CTI's certainly look and fit better, but I was wondering if there are any others?
Old     (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Dallas , TX       07-07-2008, 3:12 PM Reply   
I bought some Asterick Braces for preventative measures which I obviously never wore but I am curious what people think of them overall.
Old     (jay_j)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-07-2008, 3:45 PM Reply   
Luker (xbones) just nailed it. You defintely do not want to wear a brace as a preventive measure, and should only wear one if you need it.

If you start wearing a brace your body will slowly depend on it and lessen the mobility you will develop without it.

Strength and agility training is what you need as a "preventative" measure.
Old     (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-07-2008, 4:47 PM Reply   
from what I understand when forces are great enough to cause an injury...the braces wont stand in its way. Braces are more for people with the injuries to give them extra support (and maybe psychological confidence).....but in the end it wont stop the injury otherwise we would all be wearing them.
Old     (board4ce07)      Join Date: May 2004       07-20-2008, 10:17 AM Reply   
does anyone know anything about the WEB EVS on buywake.com i just tore my mcl and i need a brace
Old     (board4ce07)      Join Date: May 2004       07-23-2008, 10:20 AM Reply   
dude
Old     (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-23-2008, 10:49 AM Reply   
sorry Davis, never heard of it. if you have insurance I'd recommend hitting up the doctor and getting him to write you a prescription for a brace (Durable Medical Equipment). i sprained my MCL pretty bad about 7 weeks ago. i could barely walk for about 3 weeks, but was able to strap on the board six days later (with a custom fit brace).

i would assume that you could get a custom fit brace through insurance for about $200-$300.
Old     (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-23-2008, 11:14 AM Reply   
Instead of shooting from the hip, I did a quick Medline search and the evidence of knee brace prophylaxis is controversial. It appears the braces can prevent injury in sports like skiing and football but the effectiveness is not universally observed in all studies. Biomechanical studies show that off the shelf braces can reduce the blow by 20-30%. So will knee braces prevent injury in wakeboarding? No one can say for sure, but I wear them as there does not seem to be a lot of downside and there is a reasonable chance that they MIGHT prevent injury. Yes it could turn out to be a psychological crutch, which as noted in some studies is that most users self report more stability wearing a brace, but when looking at re-tears of the ACL in those that had reconstruction surgery, there isn't much difference between brace and non-braced subjects.

For you readers of the med literature:

J Knee Surg. 2003 Apr;16(2):87-92.Links
Effect of functional bracing on subsequent knee injury in ACL-deficient professional skiers.Kocher MS, Sterett WI, Briggs KK, Zurakowski D, Steadman JR.
Steadman Hawkins Sports Medicine Foundation, Vail, Colo, USA.

The effect of functional bracing on subsequent knee injury in anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) deficient professional skiers was evaluated. A cohort of 180 ACL-deficient skiers was identified from a knee screening of 9410 professional skiers from 1991-1997. An ACL-deficient knee was defined by an abnormal examination (Lachman or pivot-shift) and a > or = 5-mm KT-1000 manual maximum difference. The dependent variable was subsequent knee injury, which occurred in 12 knees. A significantly higher proportion of injuries occurred in nonbraced skiers compared with braced skiers (P = .005). The risk ratio for subsequent knee injury comparing nonbraced with braced skiers was 6.4 (13% and 2%, respectively). Univariate analysis revealed no significant effects of the other covariates. Logistic regression identified bracing status (P < .01; odds ratio = 8) and KT-1000 manual maximum difference (P = .02; odds ratio = 1.3) as significant multivariate risk factors for subsequent knee injury, controlling for covariates.

Am J Sports Med. 2005 Apr;33(4):602-11. Links
The use of knee braces, part 1: Prophylactic knee braces in contact sports.Najibi S, Albright JP. Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit, Michigan, and the University of Iowa Hospitals & Clinics, Department of Orthopaedic Surgery, 01013 John Pappajohn Pavilion, 200 Hawkins Drive, Iowa City, IA 52242-1088, USA.

Surrogate knee model biomechanical studies have indicated that off-the-shelf braces provide 20% to 30% greater resistance to a lateral blow when the knee is in full extension. Custom functional braces doubled the protective effects and proved effective with the knee in some flexion. Although functional performance studies are not consistent, preventive knee braces may slow straight-ahead sprint speed, cause early fatigue, and increase muscular relaxation pressures, energy expenditure, blood lactate levels, maximal torque output, oxygen consumption, and heart rate. Two epidemiologic studies have been performed. At West Point, a randomized control study of 71 injuries in 1396 cadets indicated knee brace effectiveness with a statistically higher rate of injury in the control group (3.4/1000 exposures) than in the braced group (1.5/1000 exposures), with the most significance for medial collateral ligament sprains in defensive players. The Big Ten Conference conducted a descriptive study of 100 medial collateral ligament sprains among 987 players in different positions, strings, and types of session. Brace-wear tendency varied directly with the unbraced player counterpart's risk of medial collateral ligament sprain, with the nonplayer linemen experiencing both the greatest risk of unbraced practice session injury (0.0801 injuries/1000 exposures) and the highest incidence of brace wear (85%). During practices, there was a nonsignificant but very consistent reduction in injury rate for braced players in every position and string. During games, there was also a reduced rate for linemen and the linebacker/tight end group. The study concluded that although the issue is not closed, preventive knee braces appear to offer some protection to the medial collateral ligament from a contact injury involving a valgus blow, but there may be negative effects on performance level, leg cramping, and fatigue symptoms.
Old     (dillls)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-23-2008, 11:55 AM Reply   
Tore my ACL riding last month and getting reconstructive surgery on Monday. How much are the custom fitted DON JOY and CTI braces? I think my insurnce will cover them but not sure.
Old     (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Dallas , TX       07-23-2008, 12:00 PM Reply   
I am in the same situation. Getting a repair done soon also. Sucks to be sitting around gaining weight. I had a pair of asterick braces that do not fit quite right so I may go custom also.
Old     (red220)      Join Date: Apr 2008       07-23-2008, 12:02 PM Reply   
I ordered this brace...Ossur CTi OTS Pro Sport Knee Brace $579.95...from jointhealing.com
Old     (jealous_soul)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-23-2008, 12:22 PM Reply   
I used the EVS web brace for awhile after injuring my MCL. It definitely helped, but it slid some after riding (but you have to remember that those braces are off the shelf and not custom fit).
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       07-23-2008, 12:24 PM Reply   
custom CTi's are $1100 each.
Old     (dillls)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-23-2008, 12:35 PM Reply   
Anybody's insurance pick up the cost??
Old     (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-23-2008, 1:13 PM Reply   
both of my custom Breg's ran about $1100 (this is the allowed cost that my insurance & doc have agreed on) a piece. my insurance picks up 80% of the cost. so i paid about $250 or so for each.

(Message edited by ironj32 on July 23, 2008)
Old     (manja)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-23-2008, 1:25 PM Reply   
Check out betterbraces.com Its the DJO site. They have the prices listed. I tore my acl 11 years ago and last month tore my mcl in other leg. Right leg came out of my zeus bindings and left leg stayed attatched. I just got the defiance braces and after a week at Pine Flat Lake I was pretty happy with them. After a little while you don't even remember you have them on. I think I might switch back to my faction bindings since they a looser.
Old     (dillls)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-23-2008, 1:42 PM Reply   
I was actually wearing my 06 Zeus when I tore mine. Tight as balls on my feet. I moving on to something looser fitting for next season too.
Old     (jlembas)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-23-2008, 2:17 PM Reply   
Well, now that this thread is alive again I feel the need to update. My original post bashed on the Don Joy braces. I was certainly not happy with the first brace I received, but things have changed!

I have a PCL and MCL tear. I haven't had surgery yet (long story), but I have rehabbed my knee fairly extensively. My doc prescribed a Don Joy brace so I could continue on a path of self destruction (wakeboarding and dirtbikes). Anyway, the first Don Joy brace I received really sucked. It slipped around and didn't stay in place. When the brace got wet the velcro straps fell off. Basically, the brace didn't do a damn thing.

I contacted my Don Joy rep and needless to say he was surprised at my dissatisfaction. He asked me to give Don Joy another chance to make things right. They did. Within 5 days, Don Joy built an entire new brace and had it overnighted to my rep. He came out and fitted the brace to my leg.

The new brace is a night and day difference. Everything is double strapped front and back. They added non-slip pads. It fits and feels like I was originally expecting. I've ridden twice with the brace now and it's the jam! I appreciate companies stepping up and making things right.

BTW, my insurance also covered 80% of the cost.
Old     (robertr720)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-24-2008, 11:33 AM Reply   
My insurance covered the total cost of my cti custom. The best thing to do is to call your insurance co. and find out what they can do for you. If you have not torn or at least partially torn your acl then there is a good chance that your doc will not write you a prescription to just go and get a brace. Without the px there is little to no chance that your insurance co is going to pay for a brace. If you do have a px then all you have to do is jump on the internet and decide on which brace will work for you and then call that co. and request a # for your local rep. From there you go through your insurance co. and find out which retailer is in your network, and there you have it. Your brace will be paid for. Some doctors will not let you choose what brand you want and some will.

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