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Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-25-2018, 7:12 AM Reply   
I put the boat in the water last night for the first time this year. .... 10 seconds in I noticed a fair amount of water pooling up below the engine. One of the expansion / freeze plugs on the blow (my port side stern plug) was laying at the bottom of the boat.

... I can only imagine this occurred from some water still in the block over winter. I bought a rubber plug to replace the brass one that popped out, so I'll try that, keep on eye on engine temp, oil level, for milkshake oil, and water exiting the block in an obvious crack .... but what are the odds just this plug popped vs. the block itself?!

I'm still racking my brain how it happened... I've winterized my boat(s) for the last 12+ years and no issues ever. Finger crossed it was just this plug vs. the block, but I'm not super confident right now.
Old     (Koolaid)      Join Date: Feb 2018       05-25-2018, 8:23 AM Reply   
What engine is in the boat and what year? What do you mean by blow?
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-25-2018, 8:30 AM Reply   
I think he meant to type Block
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-25-2018, 8:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
What engine is in the boat and what year? What do you mean by blow?
Sorry autocorrect got weird on me... Blow = Block

2004 Wakesetter LSV w/ Hammerhead. The part that popped out was this:

https://www.bakesonline.com/indmar-e...7-8-brass.html

.... from what I understand its a plug put in a hole that is used to clear sand out of the block during casting - but also called a "freeze" plug. Its just pressed into the engine and in some cases I guess pops out when there is water present and can save the block from cracking.
Old     (Koolaid)      Join Date: Feb 2018       05-25-2018, 8:48 AM Reply   
All I can say is put a new plug in and hope and pray. Crank engine while in the water or on a hose and check to see if there is any water spraying out of any cracks. Then check for milky oil after a few minutes. The LS is known for damage internally from freezing than it is from popping a plug or cracking externally. If you winterized the boat and some leftover water ran to the area of the freeze plug, you may be fine.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-25-2018, 9:04 AM Reply   
I winterized it, or at least thought I did... I've done my own winterization for like 15 years now without a problem so not really sure what happened this time / how some water got missed.

Hopefully this afternoon I can give a whirl with the new plug and see. It'll be a bummer to be without the boat when its going to be like 95* all weekend
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-25-2018, 1:25 PM Reply   
sounds like it will be ok. keep an eye on oil. fingers crossed for you, not a good feeling i'm sure
Old     (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-26-2018, 10:41 AM Reply   
I’ve always done my own wiertizing too. Once drained, I always tow it up and down a steep hill a few times to get any water out that would otherwise not drain, hopefully.

Good luck. I have seen freeze plugs pop with no other damage.
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       05-26-2018, 3:22 PM Reply   
I’ve seen plenty of core plugs pop out over the years, while only a handful have gotten lucky and not had any internal freeze damage. Only way to know for sure is to put the plug back in and run it and check for any rising milky oil level. If you winterize your boat with antifreeze this is a result of that. I have seen too many boats that were winterized with antifreeze and still had this happen. I’ve winterized hundreds of boats over the years and I’ve never had freeze damage. I drain them dry and leave the plugs out on customers boats. My personal boats I wait till there is no more water coming out of each port and put the plugs back in so all I have to do is start the boat in the spring. Like others have said, just put back the core plug back in with a little sealant like perfect seal and run the boat to find out if you got lucky or not.
Old     (infinitysurf)      Join Date: Apr 2017       05-26-2018, 7:22 PM Reply   
If you winterize your boat with anti-freeze....you will have freeze damage??? Maybe if you don't drain the water before sucking in the AF, cause there is no way the AF will replace all the water in the system and it becomes too diluted to be effective. (is this what you meant)
I drain all water and THEN suck up AF...some people then drain the AF as well, I do not as I assume it helps to protect against potential corrosion. I know a few dealers that also use that process as well as see quite a few threads on the forums and have never heard of freeze damage doing this method (if all plugs were removed first of course, plenty of people DIY winterization without doing the proper research first and get into trouble that way). IMHO, its double protection so if there are any small nooks that held some water when draining, the AF flushes those areas. To your point I also know plenty of people that drain water only and do not use AF...probably good to bump the starter if you do that (I do that plus use a shop vac to make sure I get every possible bit of water out before I pull in the AF). You probably know a lot more than me if you do this for hundreds of customers, just seems ignorant to post that using AF means your core plugs may pop without specifying the process cause if they drain and then add AF.....your process has already been followed and then some
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-27-2018, 9:16 AM Reply   
Welp, I tihnk the block is toast.

Popped the boat in last night after replacing the plugs and within 5 minutes the oil level was waaaay up and it was a milkshake.
Time to test Skisafe's "Freeze protection" policy.

Thanks for all the input everyone!
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       05-27-2018, 9:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitysurf View Post
If you winterize your boat with anti-freeze....you will have freeze damage??? Maybe if you don't drain the water before sucking in the AF, cause there is no way the AF will replace all the water in the system and it becomes too diluted to be effective. (is this what you meant)
I drain all water and THEN suck up AF...some people then drain the AF as well, I do not as I assume it helps to protect against potential corrosion. I know a few dealers that also use that process as well as see quite a few threads on the forums and have never heard of freeze damage doing this method (if all plugs were removed first of course, plenty of people DIY winterization without doing the proper research first and get into trouble that way). IMHO, its double protection so if there are any small nooks that held some water when draining, the AF flushes those areas. To your point I also know plenty of people that drain water only and do not use AF...probably good to bump the starter if you do that (I do that plus use a shop vac to make sure I get every possible bit of water out before I pull in the AF). You probably know a lot more than me if you do this for hundreds of customers, just seems ignorant to post that using AF means your core plugs may pop without specifying the process cause if they drain and then add AF.....your process has already been followed and then some
Iím not saying you canít put AF in your engine, that decision is up to you. Iím just stating that every engine Iíve worked on that came from out of state that was done by some professional that winterized with AF, theyíve had some sort of freeze damage. I donít like running AF through raw water cooled engines because it will swell impellers over the winter and as soon as you start the engine back up in the spring they always grenade shortly after startup. True AF like you use in cars is extremely harsh on impellers and the pink rv AF still freezes at a certain point. This is all my personal opinion from my years of experience working on boats. If it gives you piece of mind to go to that extreme to winterize your boat, carry on.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-27-2018, 11:43 AM Reply   
yeah, let us know how that comes out. I also have skisafe's freeze protection...just in case i screw up ever...
Old     (infinitysurf)      Join Date: Apr 2017       05-28-2018, 7:25 PM Reply   
My SkiSafe policy has that rider....it says it is covered IF: "your boat was winterized according to the customary standards of the area where boat is stored"

Be interesting how they decide that and if you can self-winterize and explain what you did so they can determine you "did it right"....or need a receipt to show someone else did it (does not say that of course). The one good thing is that is the only sentence about it and there is not a full page of fine print, which makes you think they like to keep it simple and if you opt to buy the extra protection, then they will give you the coverage as long as you literally do nothing and just let it freeze cause you can.

PLEASE.....let us know how this plays out with insurance so those of us with SkiSafe know how good/bad a company this is. I heard a lot of good things about them and besides great pricing, is a big reason I switched. Good luck, hope it goes well.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-29-2018, 6:36 AM Reply   
Makes me think in future I should keep my receipt for RV antifreeze...Might help make the case if needed.
Old     (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       05-29-2018, 8:52 AM Reply   
+1 for draining, then filling with undiluted RV antifreeze, then draining again. Surest method to prevent a cracked block, IMO.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-29-2018, 1:01 PM Reply   
damn dude. hope they get you taken care of quickly.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-30-2018, 10:03 AM Reply   
Damm that sucks. Sorry to hear that happend. Question do they make block heaters or some sort of
Heated Motor blankets? Here in california if you keep your boat indoors you donít have to winterize. At least I have never winterized my boats in 12 years. But it would be worth the peace of mind to have some sort of blanket in the motor box that could or would kick on it temps got to low. And better yet why not have some device thatís mounted in your motor box that alerts you if and when temps dip down ( I have a home weather station that dose this exact thing)it would be cool to be able to keep a eye on temps via your smart phone. That way you have a heads up if/when things were getting close to freezing.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-30-2018, 10:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Question do they make block heaters or some sort of
Heated Motor blankets?
The usually cheater I see is heated blankets or a shop light in the engine bay can help keep it above freezing.

Quote:
And better yet why not have some device that’s mounted in your motor box that alerts you if and when temps dip down
This would be nice... if you keep the battery on a tender, basically just a small heater that can be powered from that if the temp drops <35* or something.

.... usually for us the boat is pulled out when it starts getting into the 40's at night, quickly winterize, and keep it away from water until the next spring.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-30-2018, 10:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
The usually cheater I see is heated blankets or a shop light in the engine bay can help keep it above freezing.


This would be nice... if you keep the battery on a tender, basically just a small heater that can be powered from that if the temp drops <35* or something.

.... usually for us the boat is pulled out when it starts getting into the 40's at night, quickly winterize, and keep it away from water until the next spring.
Use a lightbulb.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-30-2018, 10:36 AM Reply   
https://smile.amazon.com/Wansview-Wi...words=wansview

I use this at work to keep my eye on stuff at work, and it gives me the temperature.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       06-04-2018, 7:32 PM Reply   
I'm with Tyler. I drain completely and call it good. If there's nothing in the block, there's nothing to freeze.

As far as your question on how to monitor, I got this $15 smart switch off Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Sonoff-Temper...+temp+humidity

Then I bought a 3 pronged extension cord and used it to wire a female 110v coming off the switch and a male 110v to power the switch. There's an app that runs on my smartphone and I have it setup to give me push notifications as the switch turns on and off. The switch is powering a lamp with a 60w light bulb for heat. You can set it up any way you want, but mine was set to turn the swtich on at a certain temp (say 34 degrees and turn the switch off at another temp, say 48 degrees.).

My boat is parked under the carport on the side of my house so it's easily within range of my home wifi for communication.

here's my smart switch, along with a homemade container of damp-rid (actually it's ice melt, but the kind with Calcium Chloride, the same ingredient)


And a screen shot of the app that I have on my phone to control/monitor the switch.

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