Still don't get why I "need" an inboard

I've searched these forums pretty thoroughly, and obviously, most everyone here reccommends an inboard over an IO.

Not to say that I doubt the general consensus here, because everyone seems pretty well educated on the topic, but I still dont know exactly WHY an inboard is so much better for wakeboarding.

Can an I/O with a powerful engine and a few sacks not throw up a wake that's comparable to an inboard?

Also, which is better in respect to fuel economy?

And why do inboards have such better resale value?

Thanks, all.

"Can an I/O with a powerful engine and a few sacks not throw up a wake that's comparable to an inboard?"

No.

"Also, which is better in respect to fuel economy?"

I/O but who cares given the answer to question #1.

"And why do inboards have such better resale value?"

The same reason a BMW has better resale value than a Chevy Aveo.


I hope this helps! You can still have tons of fun behind an i/o and get a decent wake, but the advantages of the inboard make it more than worth it.

Hey Jack,
Have you gotten out in an inboard or v-drive & driven one or rode behind it yet?

It's night & day different.

The resale is due to the demand. People buy I/Os then realize they dont want to just cruise around the lake so they bite the bullet and get an inboard. My memory of my inlaws I/O bayliner was that it was pretty turdless and took along time to get me up in skis at the time. I could only imagine that thing probably wouldn't pull anything sacked out.

I'm with Bill. Get out there and try it. It is the "feel of the wake and pull" and the boat response that make DD and VDrives a notch better at All towed watersports.

KV

After buying my first inboard, I realized quickly that the main reason I bought mine was the AMAZING handling in reverse.

I went from an I/O to an inboard and I think there is a lot of difference. Granted I went from bayliner to MC but I notice a difference with all the towing from tubes to wakeboarding it just seems to tow better. Pulls right out of the hole with ease.

Also with the kids I like the prop being under the boat and you don't have the stern sticking out of the back of the boat to nail you foot on.

Certainly the handling is better too in my opinion. Especially in reverse ... I hear ya C.R..

I believe the hull makes a large difference for wakeboard boats and that of most stern drives. Stern drives typically have a deep v design and the wake boats have a flat or near flat bottom at the back of the hull. This effects the wake shape etc. Depending on what you want stern drives serve a purpose.

Besides the things mentioned above...is anyone crazy/stupid enough to wakesurf behind an I/O. The safety matter is also a huge selling point to me. I will gladly give up my reverse capability for a better wake and a much safer transom.

wakesurf on your i/o a few times and let me know how things go

MOX (uofamox) on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 9:55 pm: Besides the things mentioned above...is anyone crazy/stupid enough to wakesurf behind an I/O. The safety matter is also a huge selling point to me.

As close as some people surf to the back of the boat? I'd say YES, an inboard is much safer.

There is talk of a 10' limit coming. Meaning that you have to surf at least 10' away from the boat or get a ticket.

I jumped from a 1987 Reinell to a 2008 Malibu VLX…. Like others have said, night and day!
The pull behind the VLX is something else, I can’t even explain…I love it… Then again I came from an 87 with no tower and a v6…
The way it handles in choppy water… The more gas you give it, the better it cuts the wake… In an I/O you bounce all over the place while in choppy water, and the more gas you give it, the higher you get…
The room/comfort of an inboard v-drive is the best…
Just my 2 cents…

Bill,
Sick profile pick but i sure hope you are wrong about the 10' rule. That will sure change the wakesurf movement.

Yea, I hear ya, Mox. But I think what it will change is how people weight their boats, and the shape of a surf boat's hull that boat builders make.... the point being to create the surf pocket further back than current boats. The bottom line is safety & a lot of people surf so close to their boat they can walk right on to.... or fall dangerously close to it.

Thanks.... thats Steamboat Rock in Banks Lake in Central WA.

thanks for all the input, everyone. this stuff really helps.

a couple things I forgot to ask, how do the two compare (inboard vs. I/O) in terms of reliability and cost of repairs?

and, my budget will land somewhere between 10 and 15k. should this factor into my decision to go with an inboard vs. IO?

once again, thanks for all of this advice.

15k you can get a v-drive
10k you can get a nice direct drive

all the inboard engines are car engines so parts are the same as an average v-8... my dad's old inboard did 1500hrs without 1 problem... it was rebuilt at about 700 hrs but still...

we sold are old d-drive with 850 hrs and our current has 550 ....neither have even hiccuped

"I still dont know exactly WHY an inboard is so much better for wakeboarding"

Drive one!!! After 9 yrs in I/O's we made the jump 2 years ago.

I/O's - Their length includes the integrated swim platform, so a 24' I/O will give you the interior space of a 21'-22' V-drive, a 21' I/O will seem like an 18' inboard (dont think anyone makes one this small tho).

I/O swim platforms tend to be several inches to foot above the water line, Inboards are at the water line.

Any boat with weight can make a big wake, but an I/O just will not track and handle like an inboard with rider in tow. I/O just dont have a means to clean up the wake for all riders, speeds, and line lengths.

I/O's are notorious for wanting to plane out right a ride speed, so the drivers has to make constant throttle adjustments, fighting the on plane/off plane scenario.

-less work involved, no more playing throttle jockey.
-safer, prop under, enough said.
-one tracks like a Ferrari, the other tracks like a Ford.
-as already noted, better resale value.
-more options to do more with.

"I/O's - Their length includes the integrated swim platform, so a 24' I/O will give you the interior space of a 21'-22' V-drive, a 21' I/O will seem like an 18' inboard (dont think anyone makes one this small tho). "

Who counts what in their measurements varies wildly among boat types, manufacturers, and even year models. I seem to recall Ski Nautique counting the swim platform to get to their 20' 01" number.

Back to the main point though Inboard > I/O is not a firm inequality. It's true 95% of the time but not always. I've been on a few inboards that put out no better wake than my I/O. The ones I'm thinking of off hand are a mid-80's Prostar 190 and a Ski Challenger (1990 I think). We darn near sank the Prostar and couldn't get a decent wake out of it and the Ski Challenger was all wash no matter what we did.

I guess my point is that if you currently have an I/O and are looking for a better wake, don't just dump it for a slalom-era inboard assuming you'll get a better wake. A lot of boats from around that time put out fantastic wakes but some will leave you no better (or possibly worse) than you are now.

As far as maintenance goes, an I/O is an absolute nightmare of specialty parts and tools.

As far as resale value goes, inboards have a perception of higher quality (which is very much earned) and the number of potential buyers compared to the number of boats out there is a lot closer for inboards.

Hull design Jack. They design the hulls to be completely different. An I/O is designed to have lift and cut through the water better for a nicer ride. An inboard will leave a better footprint for wakeboarding. A lot of this will depend on how new of a boat you get too. A real wakeboard boat/hulll wasn't really developed until the last 5-10 years. That being said, there are lots of older inboards that throw a great wake. Take a Natique 2001 for instance (2001 -> not the year of the boat).

The wake shape is completely different. On my old I/O, there was no troph before the wake, and the wake was like hitting a brick wall and being shot upward. On my inboard, there is a nice troph that you ride down and then up the wake for a nice clean release.

I/O's wakes tend to wash over when weight is added, many inboards don't have this problem.

Speed control in an inboard is way improved.

Hole shot is much better. No more waiting for the bow to rise and fall and build up to speed with an I/O. Then try adding weight to an I/O and see how much longer this takes.

I agree with with all of the above inboard owners. In my case....mainly pulling young kids and teenagers....I think I get better gas mileage that an I/O. My 325 HP Indmar never has to struggle to get anyone out of the water. Therefore, you don't have to go to full throttle out of the hole to get someone up. Also less drag without a lower unit, more efficient transfer of power without all of the gears inside the lower unit. Just my thoughts.

All the cool kids have them.

Another thing I like about inboards over I/Os.... and every time I get back in an I/O I get reminded of this:

The quality of the throttle. The lever itself, the speed control, throttle response, the ability to go in & out of gear easily, the ability to make small speed adjustments, or even go into forward then reverse, then back to forward.

Now that I'm very familiar with how my boat drives & handles, I find I have better control in low speed situations than any I/O would have. And it tracks & handles at riding speeds much better.

The bottom line is get in one someday. You won't be disappointed.

Do you need an inboard? No, but many of us have owned both kinds of platforms and have now been brainwashed into thinking the inboards are better.

Heres are some contrasts:

Costs, the initial cost of ownership is generally higher with and inboard, but overall, the total cost of ownership is about the same or maybe even less over the life of the boat given the higher resale of inboards.

More pull out of the whole. Inboards are designed specifically for this tasks with more energy going to the prop than through an outdrive and are geared/propped specifically for this tasks. That means more balast, which means bigger wakes. Yes you can prop an I/O to pull, but everything being equal, you will not get the same thrust with an I/O.

Wake quality: Generally, you will get a more wakeboard friendly wake with an inboard hull than I/Os, but I have been in some I/Os that produced a fine shape wake, but on average much better wake sizes and shapes with an inboard.

Safety: Inboards are hands down safer.

Surfing: Not really a safe option for IOs.

Ride quality / Cruising: Here IOs have the nod. They generally cut chop way better and since they have higher top end speeds, they can cruise more efficiently.

X factor: Styling and layout is generally better in a v-drive than an I0, though I can't say it is better for a d-drive. Of course this is entirely subjective, but most IOs do not have the curb appeal for me at least.

I jumped from my Crownline I/O to a Supra 22SSV. Kept the boat size within 6" (Crownline was 6" longer). The I/0 burned 6-8 gallons per hour as compared to a max 5 gallons per hour with the inboard (pulling boarders). Same engine size and my Supra has 75 more horse power.
Swim platform is right at the water line as compared to a foot off with a ladder. Ladder is a benefit for some.
Bow rise for an i/o is higher than that of an inboard.
Maintenance costs for an i/o for the outdrive alone outweighs the cost of the inboard, one of my reasons for not considering another i/o when I was upgrading to a wakeboard boat.
Those are my thoughts and experiences. I personally enjoyed both wakes, but the ability to shape the wake with the Supra is hands down better than the i/o.

Nobody says you cant ride behind the I/O. I had many good years behind one, but its just not in the same league.

Firstly, the wake of an inboard converges into that nice sharp roostertail, while the wake of an IO with a deep V results in a wake that does not converge in teh same place, it crosses over itself and created that wide flat table of a rooster tail.

Secondly, the shape of teh wake does not curl over nearly as soon on an inboard as it does on an I/O. You can ride further out without worrying that the wake will start curling and washing over at the lip.

Thirdly, the exhaust is not pumped through the prop aerating the water creating millions of bubbles which kills buoyancy. The water behind the inboard is much more firm.

Fourthly, the inboard wakes converge seemingly 10 feet further behind the boat which means you can run a longer rope to hit teh same width wake, which gives you an advantage when cutting hard.

Fifth, inboard hold their speed infinitely better than I/Os will. You constantly have to adjust the throttle on a stern drive. The inboard holds its speed much much better.

Im sure theres plenty of other reasons I didnt add, but you get the main idea.

We "upgraded" this year to a boat 9 years older, with three time the hours, and I couldnt be any happier.

actaully Sanger will make the 210 with an outdrive if you want and it's a damn good boat. Another boat, maybe ski supreme (I can't remember) is a ski boat with the volvo duo-prop outdrive and pulls like a freighttrain, they had one at Texas A&M when I was there. Design and intended purpose mean everything.

The best way for you to figure this out is to spend some time in and behind an inboard. IMO, an I/O is better than nothing, but even a beginning wakeboarder/driver will immediately see all of the above mentioned benefits of an inboard. I have owned all kinds of boats including I/Os. If your buying a tow boat, an inboard is the ONLY way to go. Even on your budget, you can buy an inboard.

Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 1:21 pm: Another boat, maybe ski supreme (I can't remember) is a ski boat with the volvo duo-prop outdrive and pulls like a freighttrain, they had one at Texas A&M when I was there.

Thats actually SkiPro.... designed & built in McQueeny, TX. Tried to find a video of one & this is all I found.

Their real performer boats. Fast, custom built, nimble as can be, insane features, I'd love to drive one some time. Used to be the only AWSA approved I/O out there. Barefooters used to love them. I went to their factory back in like 1997 & talked with the owner. They will custom build just about anything. They had a 20' boat sitting there, 700 hp blown engine, power telescoping boom & pylon, rear vision (in 1997?!), speakers in the transom, Duo-Prop..... he said it would tip out at around 70 mph.

(Message edited by bill_airjunky on August 27, 2008)

Hijack

I know no one cares, but just for kicks:

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quote:

Who counts what in their measurements varies wildly among boat types, manufacturers, and even year models. I seem to recall Ski Nautique counting the swim platform to get to their 20' 01" number.

---

On CCFan Keith (the owner of the website) said that 82 was the 21st year Correct Craft had been making boats, so it was like 20 and 01. The plan was to have the 83 boats be 2002, 84 2003 and so on, but they kept 2001.

Here is the thread.

http://www.skiproboats.com/extreme_exp.php

They now make the same boat in a V drive

Guess I should have mentioned that when I hit the SkiPro site thru Google, it comes up with a page that says that malicious software has been found on their site. Even when I click the link you left I get this screen.

Hmm works for me pretty cool video for an I/O :-)

Inboards get better gas mileage.

I/O's weigh more (generally deeper)

I've ridden some very clean and big I/O's

I've ridden some very small and washed out Inboards

I've ridden some very clean Inboards

Its all about taking the time to setup whatcha got.

I have 2 cents to throw into this little discussion.

Certainly inboards are a more reliable solution and take less worry when trying to get a good wakeboarding setup.

However..

There are some IO's that throw a great wake. I rode behind a 25 ft regal with perfect pass one time and the wake on that thing was like an air nautique but bigger. Really steep and firm and big.

So Rob said it right.

Hyrum,
Would you rather have the 25ft. Regal or the Air Nautique?
Just Curious

^^^ HA HA HA!

Hope that damn skipro comes with seatbelts! F' that, you can have that boat.

Jack, the bottom line is if wakeboarding is or may become a significant part of your time at the lake (like 20%) then you will be looking to upgrade sooner than you realize. If not, then get you a runabout and get out on the water. "Boating" can be done in anything, even that canoe of yours. "wakeboarding" needs a to done with the right equipment.

oh yea, inboards hold value b/c there are fewer of them. and ppl buying an inboard know what they're looking for and will pay for it.

I second Nacho I just bought a wakeboard addition I/o and i'm already looking to upgrade to a v-drive and i've had it about 3 months. Stupid me

all the above reasons plus the draft. you can wakeboard in very shallow water (about 16 inches) without having to worry about the outdrive getting ripped off you need much more depth for an IO

"you can wakeboard in very shallow water (about 16 inches) without having to worry about the outdrive getting ripped off you need much more depth for an IO"

Wow wakeboard in a little over a foot of water :-()

You'd foot in that right Kevin ?

Uh I don't think so

I have footed in tournaments with 4 feet of water.
No need for a pick up boat you could just walk out

matt (pstar94) on Friday, August 29, 2008 - 5:41 pm: all the above reasons plus the draft. you can wakeboard in very shallow water (about 16 inches) without having to worry about the outdrive getting ripped off you need much more depth for an IO

Seems like the draft on my Vride (old VLX) is 18", which doesn't begin to account for ballast or passengers. Not sure I'd be willing to risk that.
Would be interesting to watch the guys who would be willing to do it though!

Another thing. When I pull my boat on the trailer we can go. I dont have to remember to raise the outboard. We've all seen the poor guys who forget to do that after a long day on the water. OUCH!

thanks, this is all very good info.

dont know if it was mentioned .....but what other boat can go 40mph + and still handle 3000 lbs of weight with ease for a honkin weight.

Many say you dont need a big wake.......but it sure makes things more fun and easier (believe it or not)

I had an I/O before I bought my V-Drive. The things that bothered me about my inboard outboard were:
1) The boat porpoised or bounced (bow bounce)when you would trim it. Trimming cleans up and shapes the wake.
2) No tracking fins, you could really feel the rider behind the boat.
3) Constant throttle adjustments. (perfect pass would have fixed this problem).
4) The more weight I added to the boat, the worse the bow bounce was.
I still had a great time on this boat though. You can definatly still wakeboard behind an I/O and if that is what you can afford right now then get one. Id rather be wakeboarding behind an I/O than not wakeboarding at all. I dont think you are going to find a v drive for 15k or under and probably not a direct drive either unless it is really old.

I've yet to feel an inboard, but all we could afford was an 10 yr old 18 ft. I/O. It sure beats the waverunner we learned behind! I'm sure in 2-3 yrs we'll want to upgrade but we're having a blast now. We had 8 people (technically overweight) last weekend and it still pulled well and we have a regular prop. The prop is always a safety concern and our favorite thing to yell is "its in neutral right?" Pulling the wakeskate is a little tougher - difficult to hold steady at lower speeds, but I'm also still learning to pull. If we had the money we would have gotten an inboard, but if all you can afford in an I/O its do-able.

I have an I/O and I always kill the engine before switching riders, I won't take a chance if someone is near the prop.

(Message edited by weskel on September 03, 2008)

shallow water footin?
check out don mixon jr watch him wipeout and stand up in thighdeep water at 2:31 or so
take a trip back to the early "fashion" 90's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACJJ7bFpqSw

My old i/o (89 FourWinns 4.3l) that I used to ride behind used waaaay more gas than my direct drive that I ride behind now (91 Sunsport 351 PCM)