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Old    Predrag Vilotic (VLXPV)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-18-2016, 6:46 AM Reply   
Hi guys,
i have a problem with bigger air / pop.I don't understand HOW Murrey, for example*because i've seen his clip, but many others do the same* ,when he is going toward wake, how he has rear leg that deep in the water?Please compare his clip from you tube,with mine...You will see that my board is not even close to the position he has.My board engle is almost flat, while trying to build edge.
I tried ,but i don't know what exactly should i do...and he is saying that "both legs, same pressure"...kinda strange, because rear leg is much deeper...?
I clear W2W ,but i am not satisfied with the height.Any help will do, thanks
p.s.i know i should "lock legs and be tall"...but still...
also,help with backroll....any suggestions,thanks
his clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXa6lmilQrI
*its actually for raley, but i want air like here...
my clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awww...ature=youtu.be

thanks
Old    Daniel Bragg (twowake)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-18-2016, 2:32 PM Reply   
Slow down the cut in and stand up taller at the wake. Focus on going up not out.
Old    Chase Rummans (ChaseR720)      Join Date: Jul 2015       07-18-2016, 5:03 PM Reply   
Yeah. Knees are still a little bent at takeoff.
Old    Chase Rummans (ChaseR720)      Join Date: Jul 2015       07-18-2016, 5:45 PM Reply   
Also a good video to watch for pop.

Old    Eric Anderson (e_rock32)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-18-2016, 5:59 PM Reply   
I think you have some really good basic skills to progress your riding. I would suggest slowing down the boat, the wash should be 1-2 feet behind where you hit the wake. Slower speeds make it easier for you to dig deeper and can help you focus on your form of pushing off the wake to get height.
Old    Eric Anderson (e_rock32)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-18-2016, 6:19 PM Reply   
Also, you would be surprised how nice the VLX wake is at slower speeds with stock ballast and the power wedge. Extra weight can certainly be fun, but it doesn't always help progress your riding.
Old    Bcd D (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-18-2016, 6:59 PM Reply   
Stand tall at the wake, both straight legs AND hips up (think squeeze your butt cheeks). As others have said, you are absorbing some if the pop when you hit the wake by bringing the board up. For your backroll, she thing on standing tall. Try taking a little smaller cut into the wake, you are hitting it at 90 mph. Most important, wait until you feel yourself getting popped up into the air before you even think about starting the rotation. Once you get the patience to wait and get the pop, the trick will become so much easier. You will have plenty of time to get the rotation around. When I come into one, I just think pop then roll.
Old    Predrag Vilotic (VLXPV)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-19-2016, 2:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_rock32 View Post
Also, you would be surprised how nice the VLX wake is at slower speeds with stock ballast and the power wedge. Extra weight can certainly be fun, but it doesn't always help progress your riding.
this clip that i posted is from last year.This year ,i removed stock ballast,and added 550 Lbs x 2 in rear,and around 350-400 lbs in front.Anyway, i am keeping at the moment only center stock ballast full and bow ballast.I'm not overloading boat now,because i am certain that wake is not my biggest problem i will gladly increase it when time come...I am not using wedge at all ...
regarding speed, i am driving my boat 22-24 mph.What do you suggest?
I tried slower,but thats just way too slow...i doubt i can even clear W2W with that slow speed>please correct me if i am mistaken...
Old    Predrag Vilotic (VLXPV)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-19-2016, 2:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by twowake View Post
Slow down the cut in and stand up taller at the wake. Focus on going up not out.
i am trying to get higher, not further, i am aware that my height is really ...low.
But when i see other boarders, theirs knees are not 100 straight....?
also, i think that will throw me out of balance at top of the wake...?
when i try to lean back,like Murray in this clip, i get extra speed and then i just go further instead of higher.And even him , on the clip, he says that this is "wrong ,and feeling scary"...and i agree xD
Old    Predrag Vilotic (VLXPV)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-19-2016, 2:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcd View Post
Stand tall at the wake, both straight legs AND hips up (think squeeze your butt cheeks). As others have said, you are absorbing some if the pop when you hit the wake by bringing the board up. For your backroll, she thing on standing tall. Try taking a little smaller cut into the wake, you are hitting it at 90 mph. Most important, wait until you feel yourself getting popped up into the air before you even think about starting the rotation. Once you get the patience to wait and get the pop, the trick will become so much easier. You will have plenty of time to get the rotation around. When I come into one, I just think pop then roll.
You mean, to stay tall when i hit top of the wake ,or ...?what do you mean, by "bringing the board up"?
regarding 90 mph, i am affraid that if i go slower, i will not have enough speed to rotate.When i look at other backrolls, they are all higher in the air, so i guess they have enough time to rotate...
But if i first JUMP then Rotate, how should i even start it...i think i should move balance bit more higher to the rear leg to initiate invert...?at least thats what i think
Old    Bcd D (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-19-2016, 4:47 AM Reply   
You are landing into the flats with no pop, you need to slow down a little to learn how to get the correct pop. Once you have the muscle memory down, you can go back to charging at the wake. Just try taking a few cuts, not so aggressive. Don't worry about whether you clear the wake, just focus on the tips above and see what happens. You will feel the difference. You can also shorten the rope if you are worried about clearing the wake.

For the back roll, Google low impact back roll, and watch that video. They have a lot of good pointers. Watch at how small of a cut he takes and still makes it. Also see how tall he stands going off the wake. His knees might not be locked out straight completely, but notice the don't buckle either. You are buckling and bringing your board up like you are going to do a grab, but your are bringing it up before you finish the jump. Your legs don't really have anything to do with the rotation. The rotation all comes from throwing your head towards your rear shoulder.
Old    Predrag Vilotic (VLXPV)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-19-2016, 5:50 AM Reply   
here is this year tryout when i checked Murray video,but still kinda "the same"
https://youtu.be/bQf6-ETIm64
Old    Bcd D (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-19-2016, 6:30 AM Reply   
http://www.learnwake.com/videos/hs-j...erfect-set-up/

What rope length are you riding at? Is the wake curling over where you are hitting it? It kind of looks like it in the video. U think you would benefit from a shorter route length. 60-65', 70 max. You can always add length once you get the foundations down.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-19-2016, 6:37 AM Reply   
Learn Wake has the BEST video for this man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckkf840HZE4

I thought I posted it yesterday, but I guess I didn't. I went through this exact issue end of last year. I wanted more height. These things helped me.

1. Crouch down really low before starting the approach. Cut out toeside, drift and crouch down, THEN start your cut. Stay crouched.
2. Slow down the approach
3. Explode off the wake with the legs, from the crouched position. You don't have to extend your legs all the way, but you must push off HARD.
Old    Eric Anderson (e_rock32)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-19-2016, 3:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLXPV View Post
this clip that i posted is from last year.This year ,i removed stock ballast,and added 550 Lbs x 2 in rear,and around 350-400 lbs in front.Anyway, i am keeping at the moment only center stock ballast full and bow ballast.I'm not overloading boat now,because i am certain that wake is not my biggest problem i will gladly increase it when time come...I am not using wedge at all ...
regarding speed, i am driving my boat 22-24 mph.What do you suggest?
I tried slower,but thats just way too slow...i doubt i can even clear W2W with that slow speed>please correct me if i am mistaken...
I use a GPS perfect pass and I ride at 19.8 - 20.0 mph at what I think is 60 or 65 feet. Every 1 mph I increase, I add 5 feet to the length. Every boat is different, every rope/handle has small variations, and perfect pass/speedos can also be calibrated differently. You really have to find what's right for your boat.

With the slower speed, you'll have to do more work: edge a little harder, push off the wake, pull handle in and push it down. At the same time, everything happens slower so falls hurt less and you can concentrate on what fundamentals you're having troubles with.
Old    Eric Anderson (e_rock32)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-19-2016, 3:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLXPV View Post
here is this year tryout when i checked Murray video,but still kinda "the same"
https://youtu.be/bQf6-ETIm64
In this video I see your line is out at least 10 feet, bring the line in so you can slow the boat down. The wake gets small when you have to go that fast meaning less height on your jumps (then to get more height you will need to add more weight). I used to think that I needed to ride 70-80 feet out with tons of weight, then I stopped progressing and have also injured myself a few times.
Old    Eric Anderson (e_rock32)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-19-2016, 4:00 PM Reply   
Also about the weight, don't fill the front unless you fill the back full. We used to ride a 2008 vlx all the time for our camps, but didn't have the time to add extra weight besides stock. Stock was 200 lbs. x2 in rear and 500 lbs. in center. We would put the power wedge down (Not sure on the setting, I think it was maybe 4?). We would ride at 60' - 65' rope length and ride at about 21 mph (calibrated - not gps), we could pretty much do every trick we knew.
Old    Predrag Vilotic (VLXPV)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-20-2016, 4:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_rock32 View Post
I use a GPS perfect pass and I ride at 19.8 - 20.0 mph at what I think is 60 or 65 feet. Every 1 mph I increase, I add 5 feet to the length. Every boat is different, every rope/handle has small variations, and perfect pass/speedos can also be calibrated differently. You really have to find what's right for your boat.

With the slower speed, you'll have to do more work: edge a little harder, push off the wake, pull handle in and push it down. At the same time, everything happens slower so falls hurt less and you can concentrate on what fundamentals you're having troubles with.
sorry,what do you think with "push off the wake?"to extend my legs at the top of the wake?
Old    Predrag Vilotic (VLXPV)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-20-2016, 4:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
Learn Wake has the BEST video for this man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckkf840HZE4

I thought I posted it yesterday, but I guess I didn't. I went through this exact issue end of last year. I wanted more height. These things helped me.

1. Crouch down really low before starting the approach. Cut out toeside, drift and crouch down, THEN start your cut. Stay crouched.
2. Slow down the approach
3. Explode off the wake with the legs, from the crouched position. You don't have to extend your legs all the way, but you must push off HARD.
2. slow down....to wait with cut towards wake, and to progress toward wake when i am near the wake?
by exploding from the wake with legs, you mean to get up and extend legs from crouched positin,on the very top of the wake?
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-20-2016, 9:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLXPV View Post
2. slow down....to wait with cut towards wake, and to progress toward wake when i am near the wake?
by exploding from the wake with legs, you mean to get up and extend legs from crouched positin,on the very top of the wake?
Your edge out is very important. You should have a good solid toe edge out. Then you should coast for a second, set your body up (crouch down, set your arms in place), then cut in toward the wake using the progress edge technique. You don't need to cut super hard like Shaun Murray every time. But like the video says, you sometimes want to cut hard (sending a trick big and into the flats) and sometimes you want to cut slower (lower line tension, which is good for spins).

Yes, extend your legs. Watch the video above and see how the rider goes from crouched to standing.

Really at the end of the day, you have to play with the two variables and find the right spot for you. But again (I feel like a broken record), watch the video and understand that there two variables, and that the end result is a combination of how fast you are traveling side to side, and how hard you push off the wake.

And as other people have said, spend some time dialing your speed and rope length. I personally feel that behind MOST boats, 65 feet @ 22 mph is the sweet spot for a beginner-intermediate rider.

Last edited by boardjnky4; 07-20-2016 at 9:55 AM.
Old    Eric Anderson (e_rock32)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-20-2016, 7:16 PM Reply   
What I forgot to communicate is that when you approach the wake you will go from a crouch position to standing tall. The timing between these positions is the "push" which gets you more height. I start the push at the bottom of the wake. Think about the wake is pushing you up, if you push against that force, you are using it to your advantage to get more height and pop.
Old    TimelineX (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       08-18-2016, 2:23 PM Reply   
You can continue going the speed your going but just keep in mind that your falls are gonna hurt more and your compensating actual technique with speed. My jumps were just like yours until I figured out how to fully extend off the wake. Your knees should be completely locked out for maximum pop and it should be an explosive motion (not a slow extend).Your doing a TON better than your first video though, so be proud!

To give you an idea of what proper technique will do for you, I've got a 23lsv which I'm guessing is a similar wake to yours (maybe wider since its 23ft?) and at 18mph 65ft I can still go w2w. The cut required looks like a raley cut just to get enough speed, but the point is once you have the technique down you can change the variables to do what you want. I'm at the stage where I am finally getting the basics down, but even then I am still very far from having the massive pop that good riders have. I wouldn't be surprised if they can w2w at 16mph if they really tried! The point is that technique is extremely important. Don't focusing on wake size and speed. Check out this video of a guy doing crazy tricks on a jetski wake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nogr8GCIL9k

Bring the rope to 65 and no more than 21mph. If you can't clear the wake, no problem. Slow the boat down way more and start practicing 1 wake jumps. Focus on 100% full extension. When you finally get it you will know. It will feel like you got blasted into the air. The first few times you might bail because it throws you off balance. It's really hard to tell exactly what's going on, but on some of your jumps it might look like you actually ARE extending all the way but you just extend way too late and slow. You back leg get's extended after you leave the wake. It's really hard to tell though because of the wide angle lens and resolution of the gopro video.

If you want to get the idea of what we are saying when we say extend explosively, do this. Stand on the floor and squat down. Now extend SLOWLY till you are standing up with your knees locked out. Notice how even though you extended you did not get pushed into the air at all? Now do the same thing but when your going from squat to extend, do it as fast as you can while also pushing down into the ground. You will get air. The harder you push into the ground and the faster you rise, the more air you will get. Now transfer that same thought process onto the water.

As for your back roll....Your just hucking it and not actually doing a progressive edge to a release. The technique should be a progressive edge in (the strongest edge should be AT the wake), then at the top of the wake you release the entire edge while looking over your front shoulder and up. The line tension literally does all the flipping for you. At the current time your motion looks more like a mexican back roll than a back roll. Youtube mexican back roll and you will see exactly what I'm talking about.

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