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Old     (oakley84)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-24-2009, 2:33 PM Reply   
This should be interesting....

http://www.alliancewake.com/brown_trout_details.php?id=4406
Old     (liljohn)      Join Date: May 2007       01-24-2009, 2:42 PM Reply   
LMAO... Tige realy needs to come up with something on its own..
Old     (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-24-2009, 2:49 PM Reply   
the checklist is a joke IMO
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-24-2009, 3:01 PM Reply   
That checklist was written years ago and made a re-appearance. $.02
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-24-2009, 3:03 PM Reply   
shortcut: http://www.tige.com/downloads/demochecklist.pdf
Old     (malibuboats4)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-24-2009, 3:04 PM Reply   
ha, good luck tige....
Old     (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       01-24-2009, 5:52 PM Reply   
here is all i need to know....

how fast will it plane out with 4000+ in it. how solid and clean is the wake. how tight can i turn a dub with that much weight and how many cup holders!!! lol
Old     (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-25-2009, 7:48 AM Reply   
"Tige takes up Malibu's challenge" Zzzzzzzzzzzz. It's a re-hash of Tige's old Demo Challenge. 'Let us tell you, Mr Boat Buyer, what to look for ... like TAPS, comfortable seating, planing time... that our boat floats.' Zzzzzzzz. A demo tells many of the boat buying general public very little because most people don't have enough experience with different boats, their wakes and handling characteristics to know the differences. Don't get me wrong, I understand there are experienced buyers that test drive many boats especially on WW. However, I think a majority of people buy a particular boat because of brand name, reputation, "curb appeal", the dealer, fit and finish, perceived quality, resale, image, recommendations by friends, "cool factor", reading WW and so on. Tige just hopes they can get a customer on the water, get them on the "ether" and they can close them. Let's just say a customer demoes a Bu and a Tige. Even if that customer thinks the two boats are comparable in wakes and handling, chances are they would go with the Bu for several of the reasons above. Wake me up when the "Challenge" is over.
Old     (saceone)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-25-2009, 8:13 AM Reply   
what's with all the tigé hate on WW?
(I don't own one)
Old     (chall8143)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-25-2009, 11:28 AM Reply   
Yeah. I agree. I don't own one either. I don't own any of the good wake boats talked about on this web site. I have a sea ray for now. I will never understand why people dislike stuff so much. Ford vs. chevy, mastercraft vs. malibu. Tige vs. whoever. Who cares one way or another. If you have a boat to ride behind thats the important thing.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-25-2009, 11:46 AM Reply   
I challange Tige to give me a boat for a year... that is the only true way to check and see if I reallllllly like it.

I love Rz2/Rz4 if Tige is listening.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-25-2009, 11:56 AM Reply   
Is there a published Malibu challenge to which this is directed? Where?

I guess here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/malibuboats/3199309373/sizes/o/

Everyone is slamming Tige' for posting a reply to Malibu. Is anyone going to slam Malibu for issuing the challenge?
Old     (calexan)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-25-2009, 1:37 PM Reply   
That blonde is smokin hot.... no way in hell id bash Malibu after that.....
Old     (calexan)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-25-2009, 1:38 PM Reply   
Plus they didnt make a gay checklist.... they are just trying to get people out to demo a boat, not telling them what to look for like they are retarded.
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-25-2009, 3:45 PM Reply   
^^^ Chance, what specifically is gay about a checklist?

This one should be interesting....
Old     (calexan)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-25-2009, 3:59 PM Reply   
Would you really take a checklist and pen out with you went to demo a boat? Cause if so I would probably laugh.

If you dont know what to look for in a boat, you probably should do a little more research than a checklist that the boat company created.
Old     (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-25-2009, 4:05 PM Reply   
Does this mean that a Tige and a Malibu will go out on the water at the same time and compete in multiple categories involving wakesports? If so, that would be awesome. How will a winner be determined?
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-25-2009, 7:04 PM Reply   
Apparently you don't know what checklists are for. They are there to make sure you don't forget things. For example: when you pick up your new boat, the service department has a checklist not to mention when you are taking over the boat, the saleman has a checklist so they don't forget something. You should also sign the checklist certifying that you understood and the salesman went over all the details of the boat.

Personally, I don't need a checklist and I am sure a few others on this forum do not need checklists either. However, the newer boat buyer definitely could use a checklist but if they don't want to print it or use it, it's totally up to them.

For what it's worth, I am sure Malibu has a checklist also somewhere that they provide to their potential buyers. If not, I would advise that Malibu has one. When the buyer walks away, marks that checklist, the buyer can weigh his/her options.

Again, specifically how is a checklist gay again? You haven't answered the question. $.02
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-25-2009, 7:06 PM Reply   
Mike, I like that idea also. Tige has took Malibu's challenge and they are willing to put their money where their mouth is. Where is MC or the other manufacturers on this. I remember a few people that wanted to do a true testing of boats awhile back with all models. Joe U started that thread if I remember right...
Old     (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       01-26-2009, 4:05 AM Reply   
Any buyer should base their purchase on a list of things which fits their needs , follwed by an on the water test. To blindly buy any brand based on name or style without a test doesnt make sense . The product then has to sell itself. More important is a checklist for the selling dealer, that list can make or brake the product. Check out their service department, years of experince , iformational network and talk to anybody who is their custormer. Thats my 0.02 cents .
Old     (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-26-2009, 7:08 AM Reply   
Well, we'll see how many Tige dealers actually will put their boat next to a Bu at the same time and really run them head-to-head. That checklist, obviously, is biased towards a Tige. It's like Chevy putting out a checklist on their truck that says 'check out the competitors four wheel steering' when the others don't have it. I suppose Bu should put on their checklist 'notice how our Power Wedge increases wake size'. Anyway, I think a majority of people buy for reasons other than a test drive and a water test is probably not a significant deciding factor for many. People buy on emotion .... that's why sex and sex appeal sells products. BTW, I like Tige, I just think this 'Tige takes on the Malibu Challenge' is not very interesting.
Old     (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       01-26-2009, 7:58 AM Reply   
They missed the most important item on a checklist.

sit on the back deck and crack a beer. does it feel right? If that doesn't feel right, then its not the right boat for you.
Old     (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-26-2009, 9:39 AM Reply   
I would be willing to bet all the people on here that systematicaly hate on one brand of boat don't do so at the lake face to face with actual people.
In fact I have never had a single person say a single word about a tige to me or anyone around me.
Of course this has nothing to do with boats just people feeding off conflict.
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-26-2009, 10:42 AM Reply   
My gawd this is insane. Arguing about a check list and Tige' sucks because they suggest having one uggggg. WW is the worse place to ask questions about buying a boat. Once you have said boat not a bad place at all. I personally love the Tige brand and boats and shockingly don't own one. I am not so blinded by my brand that I overlook the pros and cons of other boats as well as MINE. I figure all you Barry Obama loving people would be for hope change and a new wakeworld where its not business as usual. Come on all you young kids its time for change.
Old     (denwbaseball)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-26-2009, 11:11 AM Reply   
Well said tampawake!

So so sooo many people can't be objective! Sorta sad!
Old     (justridin)      Join Date: Oct 2002       01-26-2009, 3:48 PM Reply   
Thanks for the reality check tampawake.

Most of us participate in these forums as wakeboarding and boat enthusiasts. Some of us make a living in the boating industry but probably ended up in that position out of a passion for the sport and the products, not a plan to get rich. This includes the people that started and operate boat and gear companies. Wakeboarding is a small piece of the boating world and wakeboats an even smaller portion of the overall number of boats sold worldwide. How about some overall support for all of the boat companies that are dedicated to building for the activities we value? From the biggest (Bu) to the upstart (Epic, Wakecraft) they are all really small firms, employing North American's, using plenty of products made in the USA, and selling to the domestic market. An overall shift back to that business model might be good for the economy as a whole. It was not that long ago that Malibu was a challenger to the long standing companies and the perception of what made a great watersports boat, but more importantly they too were trying to sell enough boats to build a solid company and prosper. For the sake of this thread, is Tige really all that different? Maybe their advertising and/or claims does not sit well with some but they are doing what they can to sell boats and from what I know Tige is really trying to bring non-towboat owners into our favorite realm of boating, not simply talking potential owners out of buying from another towboat company. For the sake of product quality and product development we all need more towboats sold, so how about a bit more of a positive vibe here on WW?

Good advice dj. If the boat feels right then buy it. Should we call it the "beer test"?
Old     (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       01-27-2009, 4:21 AM Reply   
Well said Jk ( justridin ) , I think to many egos get in the way of logic.
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-27-2009, 5:24 AM Reply   
JK

Would kill for that 24Ve in your profile!!!!
Old     (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-27-2009, 3:36 PM Reply   
JK. Um, ok ..... I actually like Tige and I'm not criticizing their boat. Maybe Tige is an up and coming top contender. They are all trying. I think Tige 'taking the Malibu challenge' is weak marketing. Malibu actually said they challenge the competition to meet them with a customer on the water and go head-to-head. It's really a challenge for Tige Boat dealers to put their money where their boat is and meet the local Bu dealer on the water when they have a customer interested in both brands. I guess if you're number 7 or whatever number Tige is, you have to try harder. I'd like to know how many Tige dealers will actually do it. I think a majority of people buy for reasons other than a demo. They buy because of image, quality, curb appeal and so on like I said previously. In that regard, I think Tige making a 'challenge' is not really significant. I would still like to see Bu and Tige dealers meet on a one-to-one basis and drive their boats on the water with their potential customers or at least put them side by side in the parking lot. I bet more people go with the BU. Now, if Tige wants to have some balls and put out serious marketing efforts against Bu's features or their quality or their power wedge, that might be good, influential marketing. Notice how Bu's brochure explains why Tige's TAPS doesn't work to make Tige's wake bigger? You might call it a slam by Bu, but I bet it's effective. I have not seen that Tige has an answer to that one.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-27-2009, 4:12 PM Reply   
Tige does market against dangerous drag hardware.

Never seen the transom ripped off a Tige
Old    deltahoosier            01-27-2009, 4:34 PM Reply   
Never seen anyone actually ride behind a tige either.... Just sayin...
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-27-2009, 4:40 PM Reply   
^^^^ That makes no sense, explain?
Old    deltahoosier            01-27-2009, 4:44 PM Reply   
Sure it does. I have never seen anyone wakeboard behind a tige before. Pretty simple really.

Regardless I was fine just reading the goings on here until the ol' "at least I haven't ripped the back of my boat off" comeback when someone is backed in the corner. I figured at that point it was game on to chime in and be a smart A as well. I mean since it appears the thread has de-evolved to hyperbole.

Carry on.
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-27-2009, 5:35 PM Reply   
Hey hoosier go to the damn web site tons of videos out there. I have been to two tournaments where they pulled they have sponsered riders. I have seen Rusty and many pros pulled by them. Hell I have never actually seen anyone pulled behind a CC. The Tige dealer in Tampa / St Pete has taken the challenge he is a Bu and Tige dealer. Go BALL State.
Old     (cbk)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-27-2009, 5:36 PM Reply   
Seriously dude^^^^^^ just sayin

Upload
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-27-2009, 5:37 PM Reply   
OK, so it was just fine to bash Tige till the truth about Bu's Wedge ripping out transoms was mentioned. Sounds like you are the defensive one backed into a corner. Just sayin!

So, again, what is your point with your original post? I guess you didnt make it to, or watch the Tige Pro-Am in Portland OR last June. If I remember correctly, this was an event date that MC dropped and Tige picked up the ball and ran with it.

http://www.tige.com/culture/articles/proam_wakeboarding.pdf
Old    deltahoosier            01-27-2009, 6:15 PM Reply   
Why would I be backed into a corner. I don't even care. I am just here to yank your chain. How am I doin? It's OK for you to be a smart A but no one else can? Nice double standard. Way to represent your brand.

I just made a simple comment that reflected my life experience. On the Delta or few of the California lakes, I have never seen a single person ride behind a tige. Not saying I couldn't have missed them and for a few years there I pretty much road year round. It is just a simple somewhat of a smart A of a statement of my observations. Just like your wedge comment was a simple smart A comment. Capesh?

Difference is I like almost all the brands except I hated my MB Sports Boss 210. I have driven and ridden behind the X Stars (previous model), Nati 210, Malibu VLX, Maristar, Nati Supersport, Supra, Sanger, Centurion, and I am sure a couple or few others. I just did not know anyone that owned a tige or saw them on the water. Pretty simple statement really. Sounds like tige lost the marketing war or they did not have a product that was appealing to a lot of people in our area. Maybe it's different now.

Now, if you really want to go this direction (and sure why not), I am sure Tige makes a fine boat that a pro can ride behind. With that, I just do not see that as a boat of choice in the Bay Area, CA. That is why I have never seen one. I know of a guy who knew a guy that had one in the late 90's and they could not get a wake built that even came close to his sanger at the time. I know a guy who used to be the demo guy for Tige that switched to Malibu. Anyone can pull a event or give a boat to someone and say "see people ride it."

On the wedge issue, the rudder and prop sticks down way below the wedge. So, the ripping the wedge off a bu is a bit of a red herring since you pretty much would have completely destroyed the rest of your boat. Even so, I have only seen a couple of pictures off earlier boats that had that even happen. Nice try and you surely will not get anywhere with bashing malibu to make yours sound better. Many people have a pretty good opinion of malibu (and I think they worked hard to earn it) and you will not get anywhere by bashing people's sensibilities. Heck, I just happened to be reading this thread and look what happened. Maybe this challenge will allow people to see the difference, but so far the reaction and the fact that most people have never even seen one in action may make it hard for some to overcome the opinion of the boat.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-27-2009, 6:27 PM Reply   
^^^ I'm not talking about the ones getting ripped off due to an underwater strike.

If you actually go back and read my post, the one YOU commented on, I did not mention Malibu, that was your assumption
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-27-2009, 6:31 PM Reply   
Which ones are you talking about then. Who's had a wedge rip off without hitting something? If so was it actually installed at the factory?
Old     (justridin)      Join Date: Oct 2002       01-27-2009, 6:42 PM Reply   
Oh crap, I have been severely misled. Weak marketing, number 7, no balls... As you just saw Dave, finding fault with the wedge is not considered "influential marketing" around here. I know you said more than that above and made some valid points but look where the conversation went real quick (set off by a Tige supporter I acknowledge). I think that choosing a marketing direction must not be easy. My experience with the Tige organization has been that the staff and management work hard, care about their customers and are passionate about building better boats. Same traits as the people at Malibu. If you are a potential boat buyer reading these threads, note the passion for which supporters of various boat brands demonstrate. Wakeboarding is a great sport and owning a towboat can be a great addition to your life. Check some out at a boatshow soon and get out on the water if you get the chance.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-27-2009, 6:43 PM Reply   
Ive seen a couple of pics. No strike damage was found. It was suspected to be a turn made while at boarding speed with Wedge deployed.
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       01-27-2009, 6:44 PM Reply   
In reality if a person is lucky enough to have to chose between buying a Tige or Malibu I say that person has a good problem.

These boat threads are so old and tired. I hate to say it but anyone taking the opinion, of random people on the internet, seriously has got to be a moron.
Old    deltahoosier            01-27-2009, 6:54 PM Reply   
TigeMike,

I think you are thinking of the bottom piece of the wedge comming off. It was a screw issue that has been fixed. Malibu took care of me right away, no questions asked. The transoms that you was were from object strike in the earlier days.

You don't find the original dialoge funny?

I responded to:

Never seen the transom ripped off a Tige

And I responded with:

Never seen anyone actually ride behind a tige either.... Just sayin...

Actually if you read his Statement and then mine back to back with the context that I have seen dozens of Malibu's on the water at one time and almost every weekend on the delta while I have never seen a tige on the delta (not saying they aren't there) it makes the irony of his original statement even funnier and make my witty retort have even more context and meaning and thus hilarious.

You see, he is bashing the malibu and it's wedge (and you would have to be a complete noob to boats to not know what he is talking about) that has hundreds of boats in our area and comparing it against a boat that has very little to no sample in our area. It's funny right? I mean of course you may see a boat with a transom ripped off because there are SO many while the other has....Not so much? Un picito, si? No one else see that? no.... Not even a little?


Go Hoosiers (if they ever get of probation)

(Message edited by deltahoosier on January 27, 2009)
Old     (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-27-2009, 7:01 PM Reply   
I would like to see the other builders take them up on that challenge? Mastercraft, Nautique, Tige, Bu, Sanger..etc. That would be awesome! On water comparison. With a film crew on hand and judges that are not sponsored or that are not employed by any of the builders. That would be the HEAT!
Old    deltahoosier            01-27-2009, 7:10 PM Reply   
Not sure how to interpret your post JK to dave? If I may step in. I am not sure if you are refering to me saying something in retort about the wedge or not. I will assume you did for sake of discussion.

Being kind of the upstart does require a certain amount of tact (lucky for me I don't sell). Pointing to the malibu wedge and saying it is a failure is highly inaccurate. It has been fantastic for malibu. Malibu has developed a ton of respect from the consumers. I just say it is going to be an uphill battle to bash someone else's breaking the mold product while offering nothing (but on the face of it) looks like a power trim tab. The Malibu can produce a extremely good wake without the wedge. Matter of fact I used to like to run with out the wedge and make the wake more like the Master Craft X Star (X1)(more solid on the top). Then some days I wanted the wedge down and make the wake longer with a nice lip at the top. So, the wedge is nice and has a following but for you to then bash the other product based on very false assumptions. The wedge issues above were two different types of issues with different results. If you are going to bash, don't be inaccurate. I would leave the "marketing" alone and tell how your TAPS is better or just leave it alone.
Old     (justridin)      Join Date: Oct 2002       01-27-2009, 7:29 PM Reply   
Someone Else

Dave said:

" Now, if Tige wants to have some balls and put out serious marketing efforts against Bu's features or their quality or their power wedge, that might be good, influential marketing. Notice how Bu's brochure explains why Tige's TAPS doesn't work to make Tige's wake bigger? You might call it a slam by Bu, but I bet it's effective."

I think he was saying that the quality of the power wedge was open to critique and I disagreed. No need to bash if you believe in what you are selling.
Old     (fullspeed)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-27-2009, 9:46 PM Reply   
The Truth is the Challenge is good advertisement for both parties. Regardless of the out come, any advertisement is good advertisement. It puts both names out there and gets people talking about their product. That's smart marketing.
Old     (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       01-28-2009, 3:42 AM Reply   
Lets load up all the comparable boats with maximum passengers and ballast , with the same amount of fuel and see who can stay on the water longer, pulling a rider?
Old     (highrock)      Join Date: Apr 2008       01-28-2009, 7:24 AM Reply   
The Tige will probably win. Theyre great on fuel. I know for a fact because I had a Z1 all summer and traded it in at the end on a Super Air 210. I can deal with a little more gas for a better wake in my opinion. I mean it is a 50-60 thousand dollar boat, whats 2-5 more gallons?
Old     (chall8143)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-28-2009, 9:35 AM Reply   
These posts have become embarrassing to read. I am ashamed to have wasted the 2 minutes it took me to read this. Goodbye Wake World.
Old     (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-28-2009, 8:15 PM Reply   
LOL! This is getting better! I was not implying Bu has a poor quality PW. I was suggesting that maybe Tige's marketing should be more about how Tige's hull and TAPS does work and how they think the Malibu's doesn't if that is the case. I never suggested any brand should slam another as part of their marketing nor did I slam any of the brands. "Someone": I appreciate your ability to stir the pot here, it has made this thread more interesting. BTW, I have seen Tige's on the Delta pulling riders and I'm not out there all the time. I actually think Tige makes a good boat. I think they have been unable to really find their position in the market; they're not best, not cheapest, not unique (although they say they are unique). I don't like that they copy others (like Bu this year) or that they tend to think they're one of the top boats. Maybe that's why they get so much heat and so many slams. My point was that I think few dealers will meet each other for a head-to-head, that I think Tige's "Challenge" is a bit of empty propaganda and that they could find other marketing strategies, like "Someone" said, how TAPS is better.
Old     (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-28-2009, 10:24 PM Reply   
Dave- I think that if Tige marketed how the wedge doesn't work it would be pointless. Why have a negative vibe going when your advertising your boat. When selling a boat you never want to bring sometime negative into the confersation. You want to sell your product and let the other guys worry about selling theirs. If you do a good enough job at showing your products advantages and how it performs over the rest then your good to go. I'm a tige dealer up in Fresno and i'll put my 09 22ve up against the BU's when i get it in. Just my 2 cents.
Old     (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       01-28-2009, 11:30 PM Reply   
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/659112.html

you cant get this with taps, enough said..........


Upload
Old     (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       01-29-2009, 3:44 AM Reply   
Why dont all the people on here make a list of what they would like to see on a check list for comparing of the different boats?
Old     (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       01-29-2009, 3:57 AM Reply   
By the way Bryan your right you cant get that with taps , thats because taps is a wake shaping device, the hull creates the wake. Convex v makes a boat squat, ballast makes a boat squat, and factory optional ballast with convex v bigger squat, enough said!
Old     (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-29-2009, 5:34 AM Reply   
Here we go again. Why do people think that Convex V is something special. Many boat builders have wakespecific hulls. I don't get it. I am not bashing Tige in any way, but I will say that a 22ve with 3K pounds in it with Convex V wake will not "SQUAT" harder or deeper or throw a bigger wake than a VLX or Xstar with the same weight. See my point. The hull is great in working with the TAPS, but the advantages become nullified when you start to add a lot of weight. At least in my experience.
Old     (ron_mexico)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-29-2009, 7:24 AM Reply   
- Pros use TAPS for wake shaping and refining.
- Pros don't use the wedge.
- Both companies have top pros in the world training behind their product.
- AVERAGE consumers (the ones who have never heard of wakeworld) of these two brands use factory ballast with either the wedge down or taps on or around 8. Both of which work. (how well is a qualified scenario by the end user and their situation)
- NEITHER of these companies advertise or design their wake making/shaping devices for 4-5k lbs of ballast.
- the more weight you add to either hull/wake gimmick, the less that it works in the way that it is marketed or advertised.

Therefore, neither of these companies' marketing messages apply to people on this forum...who are a more *advanced user of the product

*not necessarily more advanced in maturity during online discussion
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-29-2009, 7:40 AM Reply   
Mexico you are dead on. I was thinking that this morning and why my post said this is the worst place to ask what boat should I buy. 10-15% on here are pro or advanced riders that need a lot of weight and a HUGE wake. These riders are very loyal as well and knowledgable. The rest of us are roughly beginner to intermediate/advanced rider in which any of the wakeboats talked about will work just fine. Including just using stock ballast or wedge/taps type systems or no weight at all. Or we are families that have to do a multitude of sports with our boats, tubing, skiing, barefooting, cruising and lots of us DRINKING(yes it is a sport)!!! To me its more important to find the best dealer with support and knowledge then the boat brand second for us 80-75%. All the brands will do the job who is going to support you the best when things go wrong and not take advantage of you when there is a problem.
Old     (committed)      Join Date: Jul 2005       01-29-2009, 8:14 AM Reply   
I'm gonna go ahead and cast my vote for gayest thread of the year (so far). And one poster in particular, Mr.Never-Seen-A-Rider-Behind guy, your in a strong runoff for toolman of the year, based solely on your verbiage. Sorry man, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Like it was said in the movie, "you never go full retard." Ask Shaun Penn.
Some of you wanna-be-haters, I can recall when I would take a pull on anything, I mean anything. Give me a 14 foot skiff with an outboard, and it's on. Now I can afford what I want in life, my attitude hasn't really changed that much. I guess there's a difference in passions for riders vs. boat ownership's. You write without thought, which is par for the Internet these days, but doesn't make you right. You forget why you own a towboat in the first place. So, keep rackin up those goldchains, keep your coolers full, and remember to never go full retard.
Old     (ron_mexico)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-29-2009, 9:12 AM Reply   
thread closed? great.
Old    deltahoosier            01-29-2009, 11:08 AM Reply   
Sorry Ron, thread was almost closed until Chris.

Lighten up chirs. Call me a tool if you want. You obviously can't read for content and are obviously reading with emotion. I even told the guy I was being a smart A but I was doing it to prove a point. The point being don't bash on other equipment to make yours sound better. More importantly don't bash with half the truth. Oddly enough it is a positive message with some fun sarcasm included to counter the negativity. So, get over yourself. The so called "tool of the year" does ride behind and has driven about every brand of boat. Matter of fact I said I like them all. So, get over yourself bud.

Ron,
I partially agree with you about the level of rider on wakeworld only needed to load up a boat.

I was a first time boat buyer too. Just like we all were. I fell for the marketing well enough and then I found a used boat in my price range. I then hit the water and started noticing many people around me getting crazy air and then pulling tricks on the water. Being the typical guy, I wanted to know how and why they could do it but not me. Afterall, I was a pretty good athlete and never had a problem playing about any sport at a decent level. Why could I not wakeboard that well?

What did I do? I started looking around the internet. I found WW and WB websites. I joined the forums (people on the forum don't just say, "I don't wakeboard but let me join a wakeboard forum anyway").

I started to learn things and hook up with others. I quickly learned like we all do what our boats weaknesses are. I started to notice my boat having issues that others weren't. I started to notice about customer service. I started to notice build quality when messing with my stereo install. I noticed shaft alignment issues that others did not have. I noticed wakeshape and cabin comfort. Most importantly, I learned that a couple of things the salesman did on my demo ride and sales experience that did not strike me at all when I bought the boat, but after talking to other after the fact really set me in a very bad way. Then some of the ways the repairs were done to my boat that may not even needed to be done. They did not quite strike me right away either, but, I learned after. I never went back to the place I bought the boat from again.

During my first boat ownership experience that opened my up to my wakeworld experience, I learned how to wakeboard. I learned how to weight a boat. I learned my boat was a piece of crap. I learn many things. Then I was ready to move on.

Wakeworld did not make any difference in my initially buy experience that is for sure. Of course, that was around 1997/98 timeframe. But, I tell your for sure wakeworld (more importantly) the people involved in wakeworld made a huge difference in what product I bought next.

When I got to ride behind someone elses Malibu at the time I was pretty much sold. The wake was good, the quality and finish of the boat was superior to mine and then when I went to look at the price, I was able to get into a malibu at the time for $10,000 less than the Correct Craft or MasterCraft. I was sold. Trust me, I was salivating at the CC and MC's, but, I could not afford the coin they were asking.

During the ownership I was not plaqued by the little crap that my other boat had to deal with. I'm not going to say it was perfect. Boats never are. I then met more and more people from wakeworld and had the ability to pull a few pro riders from the area and yes we used the wedge contrary to your comment above. We don't use 4 or 5 thousand pounds in the boat. Maybe around 2k and the wedge. You are right you can used the wedge to shape the wake even with the weight (and yes the wedge works with the weight). People who say that they don't obviously don't know how to weight a boat or the boat does not work well with weight. (that unfortunately was the case for my friend who helped a friend with the tige back in the day). I am sure it is different now. Just like my first boat just could not handle weight. My malibu handled weight really well but did not turn as well as it could. I noticed the difference a couple years later when I got to drive my friends weighted down malibu with the new gorilla fins. That thing turnled like a direct drive with no weight almost.

Point is with the story, yes wakeworld may not help the initial sale but many, many, many people quickly find the product they got does not work for them and change within a year or two and wakeworld does influence that. One thing that helped malibe at the time is I got to ride it, it looke great, it had a rep at the time that it was close behind the CC and MC and with that I could afford it (better value). If tige is going to fill that spot now that malibu seems to be very expensive:
- they need to have the features people like
-have a boat that will handle some weight so you can develop brand loyalty as people progress
- don't have them in for mickey mouse stuff and have great dealers that can help tige overcome the second level conception with superior service
- get people out on their boats. I got into mine because those (so called advanced riders) took me out in theirs and I trust their opinion.

Nothing like knee high at 25.

(Message edited by deltahoosier on January 29, 2009)
Old     (ron_mexico)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-29-2009, 11:56 AM Reply   
word.
Old     (committed)      Join Date: Jul 2005       01-29-2009, 1:13 PM Reply   
Lighten up Francis, if you can't spot sarcasm from my words, how in the hell do you expect anyone note yours?
And it's not "tool of the year," pay attention please, it's toolMAN of the year, and you haven't won anything yet. Patience, you have the whole rest of the year to make the case.
FYI-DeltaDbag, your words spoken about Tige, prove without a shadow of doubt, guilty by a jury of your peers, you have no idea what your talking about. So, fan the flames more, because your just cementing your legacy......
Old     (ron_mexico)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-29-2009, 1:21 PM Reply   
thread closed? great.

ladies and gentlemen...please unplug your keyboards. thanks.
Old    deltahoosier            01-29-2009, 1:24 PM Reply   
Jury of my peers? I have no idea what I am talking about? Fan the flames some more because I don't know what I am talking about? Dude, it is my life experience I am talking about, how can I not know what I am talking about? I really have not seen anyone ride behind a tige before. How is that not factual from my point of view? How is my boat setup not factual? Is it not a fact that tige is not as big a player at the delta compared to Malibu, MasterCraft, Natique, Sanger, MbSports, and a few others? In general are you on crack, because you are way over the top hostile?

Tell me, what is it that you think you hear me saying and I can at least have a clue and dialog with you on what you are menstrating about?
Old    deltahoosier            01-29-2009, 1:30 PM Reply   
And chris, there is a huge difference between being sarcastic in relationship to a product, than directly addressing someone and calling them names especially if you have not been addressed.
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-29-2009, 1:34 PM Reply   
There are Tige's in the delta but not very many from what I hear. When Tige's manufacturing plant was in CA there was an annual Tige reunion in the delta.

I have been there one time with my Tige and loved the delta. However, the delta is large enough where you will never see a boat 2 times.

However, this thread has turned for the worse IMO. Started out with someone calling a checklist gay.
Old    deltahoosier            01-29-2009, 1:46 PM Reply   
Checklists are fine. You will find most high end/ ISO certified manufacturing processes are checklist driven and I do think that most manufactures of the boats let dealers take things their own way and don't control the company line so to speak. If I were to go to different dealers I would like to have/ hear consistency from dealer to dealer. It give a unified company approach.

The delta is pretty big, but, most common boarders only hang on the lower half south of rail road with a few venturing up north of that (usually the more knowledgable crowd, at least for the south delta people). I know tiges in the delta as there was a dealer in Livermore where the Malibu moved into after them. I really had not seen anyone riding them. Even with that, what prompted me is a somewhat dishonest discussion/ comment about a competitor to even want to chime in.
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-29-2009, 1:53 PM Reply   
Since Tige only has a small part of the market, it is not a coincident that you haven't seen one. The only dealer that sells Tige that I am aware of now is in the Sacramento and Fresno areas. Not sure if the one in the bay area still exists.

westsiderippa - Dave's wake picture there is without the wedge from what I remember reading. It's rather hard to get anyone riding a Tige to put 4-5k worth of ballast in their boat. 1500-2500 lbs is somewhat common in a Tige. One day I might think about adding ballast to my boat but at this time, I am comfortable with my wake.

edit: and I am in no way saying that Dave's wake suck or it's inappropriate to add that much ballast. I am just stating a fact that I have NEVER seen a Tige with that much ballast put into it. The only Tige pro that I am aware that has/might have put that much weight into their boat was Daniel Watkins.

(Message edited by dabell on January 29, 2009)
Old     (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-29-2009, 2:11 PM Reply   
Tigebell,

I would think Santori, Ruck, Errington and Watkins all would run huge amounts of ballast, but I don't know for sure. I would think that the pro riders that ride for Tige would be loading these things down heavy.

I have been in several Tige's that have had 2K-2.5K.bs in em. Mostly 22V and 22Ve's. I have never seen anyone put more weight than that. I personally have never seen more than that in a Bu either. I have only personally seen X-stars loaded with 3-4K lbs. I would love to see a 24ve or 22ve with 4K lbs in it.
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-29-2009, 2:15 PM Reply   
^^^ I only know of Daniel with that much weight but definitely don't doubt the others haven't put that much in. The amount you have seen is what I have seen also but it would be interesting to see my RZ2 with 4k of ballast but that will happen one day but not this year.
Old     (justridin)      Join Date: Oct 2002       01-29-2009, 2:21 PM Reply   
thread closed? great.

Please, can we just move on now.
Old    deltahoosier            01-29-2009, 2:24 PM Reply   
I only ran a couple thousand pounds and the wedge. I would put more wieght in the front. I had the stock tanks in back and the MLS bag in the locker with the wedge. Then I had a few lead tubes in the back lockers, couple lead tubes up front with water bed tubes that pretty much filled up the front storage under the seats. Then I would add on big bag in the front. If I knew I would have a few people on the boat, I would usually fill the front bag up part way so I could still use the bow filler cushion. If I filled up my old boat like that, it would have sunk. The setup I discribed is pretty standard for everyone I knew on the delta. maybe a little less weight in some. If you are the type of person who switched boats to get a wakeboard boat, you are most likely adding weight to your boat.

Bryans wake does look sick. It looks like he is riding a little slow. IF he bumped it a mile or two it will narrow up, ride a longer line and still stay solid. The wake will really get wide and huge if you try and ride around 21 or 22 mph on the old VLX. I would ride at 24.7 on PP but still knee high with a 6ft rider.

Only thing I am saying about Tige is since they are a smaller market share I don't think they can command Malibu, MC and CC prices. When I would stop by livermore they were at the time. No way I could justify the higher prices for a boat(for real or fabricated and lack of a better term) that is a second teir boat in the market. It is not a slam, it is just seems to be where their marketing position is right now at least in the delta.
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-29-2009, 3:03 PM Reply   
Funny that you say that Deltahoosier... I also ride in an older Malibu DD, MB B32, and a F21 Tomcat. So I have plenty of different size wakes and shapes to choose from.

Bryan's pictures is of David Williams's boat in Mexico from what I read. They were doing a shoot and IMO, adding the wedge to that wake would have only curled it even more. But again, I haven't riden in a Bu with the wedge yet.

Tige in 2006/7/8 did not command the same prices as the three you mentioned IMO and what I looked around at when I purchased my two Tige's (2006 - 24Ve and 2007 RZ2). Tiges were definitely cheaper (not necesarily cheaper in manufacturing from what I saw) IMO but the 2009 models are apparently off the hook from what I read. Haven't seen on in person yet but want to.

But, the three that you mention are very, very nice boats. However, no one boat manufacturer deserves to be slammed because of someone's opinion. IMO, if I offered someone a ride behind my boat, I would bet you that they would take me up on the offer. Only on WW do you find that people have an opinion and say "they wouldn't" because they hide behind a keyboard.
Old    deltahoosier            01-29-2009, 3:54 PM Reply   
I hear that. We all would trade pulls behind everyones boats. Heck Umali would come down and we would make huge spines for him and everyone would have a blast.

Your right, the wedge would most likely curl the wake at the speed they were going. The wedge is just like adding weight. If you are riding slower, you can make a bigger wake with less weight than you can if you ride faster. As you go faster, you have to add more weight to get a similar sized wake. Also, if you don't weight the boat right you can make the boat undrivable. It won't keep speed correctly. People like to throw a bunch of weight in the back and have a huge peaky wake, but, it becomes undrivable. I made that mistake early in my day.

I assume you meant older B52? My Boss 210 had the same hull as the original B52's. That hull was a old MasterCraft mold that got a little bit of a rear end job if I remember correctly. That boat had a flat bottom on the rear end and had a low nose. It would not handle much weight and with that flat rear end it would not trake the best IMHO. Also, when I started looking at the inside, it had wood all through the upper portions when the sales people marketed a all composite boat. That is when I really started talking with people and noticing other boats. That is where wakeworld ended up with a huge influence on my market decisions.

I have been out of the market for a bit. How much do they want for the newer Tige's? When I picked up my boat I got it with all the stuff in the pick for around $50,000 out the door. CC would not even talk to me about price for a year old 210 with nothing at that price. Xstar too was a no go at that price. As I kept going to boat shows after the fact, I noticed even sanger started to command the price as my Malibu. I was like are you crazy? When I went by the Tige' dealer in the day in livermore I inquired about their costs at it was as much asking or more than for my malibu. I just thought to myself that I would have a hard time justifying (if I had too) a boat that costs more or as much as my boat that has a very good reputation in my area.
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-30-2009, 9:07 AM Reply   
Just got word that the Tri Valley Marine, Livermoore CA Tige dealer is still there. woohooo!!!! Great job guys!!!! Bad economy and you are still around.

Okay, the 24Ve was $56k while the RZ2 was <$52k (can't disclose how much because of agreements with dealer and Tige but let's say I got the Tige pricing )

When I was searching for 24' boats in 2006 they were all over $60k from the three that you mentioned.
Old     (highrock)      Join Date: Apr 2008       01-30-2009, 9:58 AM Reply   
I put 3,000+ lbs in a 08 22Ve this summer and found the wake to be kind of soft even riding at pretty good speeds 23.5-25. I had a Z1 all summer with about 2k in it sometimes more it was a nice wake, little soft but shaped like a CC 210. When you load those boats down there forget moving the Taps though all it does then is soften the wake more, about 3-4 is all you get out of it, kind of diminishes that whole sales point.

Tige isnt really marketed to be a hard core wake boat in my opinion so you dont see many with a ton of weight in them. I do wish theyd make a new hull and have something that would fit into that market.

The new ones are going to be priced right there with the Malibu's I would guess if you get them with similar options. Most of the new stuff deals with the tower, underfloor rear ballast, and graphics, no hull changes in a long time....Still cheaper than Mastercraft and CC by a little, but not much.
Old     (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-30-2009, 10:44 AM Reply   
Agreed Shaun- Tige (nice boats) but I've always felt that no matter what the shape looked like the Tige did always have a SOFT wake. What's a good shaped waked without firmness. Maybe I'm not weighting them properly when I do get a chance to be behind a Tige, but I have alot of experience with weighting boats (B52's/Wakesetters/Xstars/SwitchV/22V/210 name it) and IMO YOU SHOULDN'T have to try that hard. You spend more time adjusting weight than you do enjoying the riding. The new RZ series boats are very clean and great looking boats. So don't take this post as a bash. This is MY PERSONAL RIDING EXPERIENCES BEHIND A TIGE' NOT YOURS
Old     (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-30-2009, 10:55 AM Reply   
dave- my new 09 22ve is about half ways threw its birth(being built). i'm driving out to texas the last week of feb to pick it up. i'll hit you up when i get it all set up so you can come give it a try.
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-30-2009, 1:28 PM Reply   
Ryan have you not read this thread and wakeworld in a while stop your order immediately get your money back do it now dont wait your getting ripped off stoppppppp

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