24' SSV vs 24' Tige

Hey All,

I'm looking to buy my 1st Wakeboard Boat. I want a 24' (because that is the size of my i/o and my wife doesn't want anything smaller) and can afford something around $40k.

The 05-06 Tige and Supra's seem to fit these guidelines.

The only wakeboard boat I've ever ridden behind has been a Tige and I loved it but considering what I normally ride behind I have no frame of reference.

I've been researching them and the Tige seems heavier but don't some with ballasts?

Went to the StL boat show and the Tige dealer says I won't need it where as the Supra dealer seems to think I will want it sooner or later.

Let me know what you think.........

ahhh the tige ballast debate....
as everyone will say demo the boats and make sure you have a dealer you can trust over the long haul... tige sales reps are trained to sell their boats without ballast, but the real point that everyone will say is you will need ballast at some point.... I have been very happy with Supra and that is my vote, but again, don't listen to us... form your own opinion... that is why there are so many on here that own different brands...

They are both good boats. with either boat you will eventualy want ballast. If you can find an 06 24ve tige in your price range I recomend it over the 24v tige model.

The Tige people are B/S'ing you.

You will need ballast at one point or another, I promise.

My vote is for the 24SSV Supra. It's definantly my favorite wake, and Supra quality is top notch. I have never been impressed with Tige wakes. Normally they feel small or poorly shaped, and in some cases, relativly soft.

But wake preference varies from person to person. Demo both, and decide for yourself, but personally, I vote for the Supra

I have never ridden in a Tige but I shure love how those boats look. On the other hand I also would love to ride behind a 24 Surpa model. I am no help here am I?

WOw I was fast on the tirgger, I do know how to spell sure

Tige puts out a good wake with out ballast, but depending on your riding level, you may find that you want a bigger wake and will need ballast. Even with most of the other brands, everyone seems to be adding a lot of weight on top of the factory ballast to get the wake they want. It's all about personal preference, so a demo is a must.

With the factory ballast, you will loose some of the rear storage, not unlike any of the others. I would consider getting the boat w/o ballast tanks and installing your own sacs. I think the dealer can order it plumbed/wired, but no tanks, and no loss of storage. You will only lose storage when sacs are filled.

A couple of things I like about my Tige: The towers are high, bimini goes over the tower, even with speakers, you have some decent head room. Very deep free-board gives you a comfortable, safe ride. You dont have to crawl over seats to get to the bow, or to the back of the boat. Fuel econ, check boattest.com, Tige gives better fuel economy and performance with less HP. Walk-through transom with transom storage and seating. Tige puts out an awesome surf wake without adding a ton of ballast.......I can surf my 22Ve with 750# and a couple of peeps.

tige.

The 06 22ve and the 08 RZ2 put out some of the crappiest wakes I've ever ridden behind w/o ballast...very small & poorly shaped. The supras I've ridden behind have decent wakes w/o ballast. Tige makes a good family wake boat, you won't find many people going after Tiges for their wakes. On wake alone...Supra is the clear winner.

I own a 24V and it is a great boat. There are a few people on here that have ridden behind my boat without an ounce of ballast (not including me) and didn't seem to complain. I'm not going to lie and say it wouldn't be better with ballast, but they don't have a problem landing their bag of tricks. The one complaint I've heard was about the width.

However, when I was looking I also looked at the Supras and they are really nice boats. The factory ballast is great and I like the playpen seating (I leave my bow cushion in 95% of the time anyway). I just couldn't find a 24' for the same deal I got on the Tige and the Tige dealership was much more established at the time.

You can load the the Supra up with thousands of pounds without a fat sac in sight. Its a tank to drive but will throw a solid wake.

on the hole ballast issue. you need to clasify yourself. what type of a boarder are you and your kids if you have any. if your only cruising around and jumping the wakes you wont need ballast. with no ballast i can do all the basic inverts and spins on any of the tige models. if your looking into getting into the advanced level or above then you will def. need ballast. you also have to think about how many people are going to be in the boat. when i have 12 of my friends in my RZ2 i don't fill any of the ballast. when its just the driver in my boat i fill all 2500lbs of ballast. so really on the whole ballast issue you need to think about what you will want not what other people would want. if it was me buying the boat i would order ballast and uppgrade to the bigger sacks. and also demo the boats. everyones point of views on the site are pointless. i have a tige so acorse i'm going to say buy a tige. anyone who has a supra will say buy a supra. one thing i will say about supra is that they aren't a bad boat but just don't fit my taste.

"You can load the the Supra up with thousands of pounds without a fat sac in sight. Its a tank to drive but will throw a solid wake.

No offence GHatfield, but does anyone else read this kind of statement as a back-handed compliment about your own boat??? Everyone claims "buy a boat like mine because it throws the best wake when loaded with 2k of ballast on top of the factory ballast"

If you have to add that amount of ballast to your boat to be satisfied with it, then how dam good is your boat? Dont give me the "the pros do" cause this isn't about how you ride, but about how everyone promotes thier boat as the best. I dont see how anyone can compare thier overloaded boat's wake to a boat that has no ballast or at least only the factory ballast?

GHatfield, not directed at you, but I see this same statement in every thread about wake size.

I am pretty sure that GHatfield is just saying that you "could" load up a Supra with tons of ballast and it would all be hidden. I could be wrong but that's how I took it.

I think we need to know more of what activities will be done behind the boat.

Thanks for the opinions everyone.

To give you all some more insight as to who will be using the boat and what kind of activities.

I would have to say I am an intermediate rider that can do invert spins etc and would like to become an advanced rider. My brother is about the same and my wife is a little better then a beginner but doesn't really do a hole lot other then slides and switches (she likes to stay on the surface rather then jump....go figure). We have a baby but he's only 6 months old so while he'll be riding someday it will be a little while.

These are the main people who will be using the boat however we'll always take friends out and most are a little more at the beginner level and some will want to Ski, tube and all that other crap that I use to do when I didn't wakeboard.

Again I ride behind an I/O right now with no tower so I'm looking for "more air" and I just feel like I will eventually want the ballast.

When I first started looking in the Fall I thought for sure I wanted a Tige, after doing more research I'm leaning towards the Supra.

It sounds like I'll be able to get more air behind the Supra but is doesn't handle as well?

Chad,

I went from a 20 foot I/O to a 24 SSV last year and couldn't be happier. Even though it is 4 feet longer, it handles much better. If you are currently in a 24 foot I/O, you will be amazed at the difference. I have taken my 24 SSV in some pretty big water and my wife has always felt comfortable and very safe. There is a ton of storage in the boat when the Ballast is not filled. We actually have a toilet in one of the rear lockers. Not to mention that Supra probably has the best customer service of any manufacturer. I had a problem with my Supra last year and Rick Tinker (President of Skiers Choice) personally sent me an email.

here's your answer...
"You can load the the Supra up with thousands of pounds without a fat sac in sight. Its a tank to drive but will throw a solid wake."

if you're throwing inverts and spins already then you'll want a boat with ballast, no question about it.

chad ballast is an option that is offered on tiges just not a standard. if your looking to do some wakesurfing(everyone gets hooked on that once they do it once) the 24 foot tige is going to throw one of the best surf wakes on each side for surfing. i've never surfed on a 24ssv. i have on a 21v supra and wasn't as pleased as i was with the tige surf wake. i don't think you'll find anyone that will say tige doesnt' have a world class surf wake.

I run about 1200# in my tige and it still handles really good. No one can stand up to a tige in rough water tho.

I have been in 7 ft waves on lake mead and didnt take any water over the bow. I think thats enough said

Wow dude. You need to chill out. I post every once in a while when I might have input based upon personal experience. The necessity of ballast was not implied at all. I was simply pointing out that on that boat in general there is plenty of room for upgrading the sacks from stock, without having to step over pop up sacks in the middle of the floor. Personally any time I read your posts here, you are arguing with someone. I guess I will just keep quiet from now on so people like you can feel important and all knowing. Once again, not all comments about ballast concern you and your tige. I have no interest in bashing one brand or another and never have period.

As well I have a 21v and not a 24. Completely different boats so check your facts before you make assumptions about people.

You won't have to worry about turning with a weighted Supra.

I rode in a double up contest in July that was pulled by a 24SSV Supra.

It had 3,000 pounds of ballast and around 10 full grown adults piled in.

It handled very well even with that much weight it. I've seen other brands that cant handle that well with their 21ft boats.

the Supra will throw a tidal wave behind it

weighted the same same tiges wake every bit as good as a supra. unweighted tige is better. as far as ride and fuel economy NOTHING and i say NOTHING beats a tige. i work on all brands of ski boats and when you get down to the nitty gritty you will find tige to be the most complete boat out there. after numerous yrs. as a mechanic and thousands of hrs spent driving boats IMPO you will not find one that performs better than a tige.i have driven them all. drive them both the choice will be clear to you wich boat you would rather spend your time on the water in. good luck!

I had to post after "unweighted Tige is better". KEVIN (kko13) come the f*** on. An unweighted Tige is the worst experience available as compared to boats in the same size range with the only exception being the MasterCraft X2. Seriously I am getting so tired of this Tige Defence Force attitude laden with hyperbole, and this all caps "NOTHING and I say NOTHING, etc". Is it a moderately cheaper boat? Yes. You get what you pay for. End of story. They fact that there are $60,000 Tige's blows my mind. When does this end?

Supra. No question. They are not in the same tier and you should think of them that way. They're a sub-par brand and a sub-par tier. Know this.

(Message edited by boomshot on February 16, 2008)

The truth is an idiot. If anything, supra is below tige. supra is a cheap boat weighted down with 3K to get a great wake, when you can weight down a tige with 1500 and get the same wake

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAH!!!!!

The Truth: You speak nothing but UNTRUTHS!!!!!!!!!!!! You are a NAYSAYER!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHHAHAAH!!!!!!

ok people... they are both good boats. Get whatever you like better when you test drive them. For the love of God... grow up people.

Hey chad, instead of these lets just get the 900 h.p. tri-toon. It will throw up three wakes!

you take a tige 24ve no ballast and a supra 24 no ballast the wake on the tige will be better. supra makes a fine boat but IMPO its not as good as a tige. last i checked i was aloud to give my opinion and stand behind it. so you come the f**k on get your head out your azz and dont be a hatter. TO chad fowler sorry this post got ugly i hope you get a chance to drive both boats the tige speaks for itself you said you have been in 1 and liked it thats great. you cant go wrong with a tige you just cant. but i always say drive everything and let the boat speak for itself. once again GOODLUCK in your search for a new boat.

I honestly LOL'ed at this thread. Come on, guys. We all know that wake is a matter of opinion. Plus there are many, MANY variables that can influence how big a wake is, even unloaded. Gas, people, speed, hull, all these factors matter. So, arguing about wake size on the internet (with not a pic in sight, mind you) is pointless, I think. But, carry on with the battle if you care to.

Anyway, Chad, you just need to get out there in both with regular riding conditions (normal amount of people & ballast, etc.) and decide which boat is better suited for YOU and your family.

Clarke, your a funny man.

I invite you to come to the starting dock at my local INT league and listen to the moans and groans of the riders in any given division when they learn that they have to ride behind the Tiges.

Also, if your worried about gas, concider this;
The 24Ve weighs 4,230 pounds
The 24SSV weighs 3,950 pounds.

Thats about 300 pounds less your towing (less gas in transit), and about 2K in extra ballast you can put into the supra after you get there, versus the "need's no ballast (that's a joke)" tige.

Supra makes top quality boat's, and stands behind everything they make a hundred percent. Their quality is second to none, as are their wakes.

I’ve wakeboarded behind a Supra 21 V, a 22 SSV and a Momba 24. I really liked the 21 V. It was weighted out and loaded. I did surf behind the 21 V. The conditions weren’t great and the boat wasn’t really set up for surfing. I’ve had better surf wakes, but the wakeboard wake was really nice.

The local Tige’ dealer is pretty cool. We’re going to go surfing behind one of his boats this coming season. Tige’ has a really good wake surfing reputation. I’m looking forward to getting a chance to surf behind one.

I think there’s some credibly to the Tige’s TAPS. I think that the hull takes advantage of the Coanda effect. I don’t know if the Tige’ guys agree with me or not but I think that’s the key physics property the hull exploits. Have you ever held a glass horizontally under the faucet? The stream of water gets diverted. The net effect is displacement of the water stream. That’s a mass flow problem. Mass flow is a kind of F=ma problem.

I think that the convex Tige’ hull is like the glass. The flow of water under the hull follows the curve of the hull upward. If water is diverted up then something else has to go down. That something else is the hull. If the transition from the hull to the transom were more gradual the Coanda effect would be greater.

I think that Pivotal Designs, the guys that developed the Switch Blade for Centurion have developed an add on wake enhancer that takes advantage of the Coanda effect. They will be releasing a new product dubbed the “Razor Blade.” The Razor Blade is like a trim tab except that it isn’t a flat sheet of metal. Rather its curved upward. I think it’s designed to transition the flow of water from the hull to the curve of the Razor Blade, and then upward. Water follows the flow upward. Since every action has an equal and opposite reaction the hull must go down.

Both boats are probably really good. Go climb around on them and decide what you like. Figure out which dealer you like best.

my 0.02.

(Message edited by Bigshow on February 16, 2008)

i'm with brandon on this one. i think THE TRUTH just can't handle the truth hahahaha. don't get all butt hurt about it just having a lil fun.

Edward J Sullivan, you are exactly correct on the physics side of things (I have a degree in physics). When water travels up a surface it creates suction.

What I find is funny is Tige's marketing of this. On their demonstration of the taps features on their website, it states that Tige is the only boat company using this technology. They state that other manufacturers use "old technology" and put a hook on their boats. Have they looked at a wakeboard boat in the past 5 years? If so they will see that supra and moomba's have incoporated this design in their boats for a long time. Supra calls this a stepped pocket and uses a wakeplate to do the exact same thing that taps does. Supra does realize however that ballast is necessary on a wakeboard boat.

I'm not trying to bash Tige boats in any way. I have been in and behind Tiges with very nice wakes. I do have a problem with their marketing.

But back to the topic at hand, go drive and ride behind both and hopefully their will be a clear winner.

go drive. go ride. then decide.

Jon, I’m not sure what the Supra stepped hull is. If Supra has the same system that might be a patent infringement. I'd like to take a straight edge to a boat show and see if boats have a hook, are flat, or if they are concaved. Adding a trim tab to any boat isn't the same as TAPS unless the hull is concaved.

I think the Coanda effect is relatively minor, something that helps. Only the water in contact with the surface of the hull is affected, maybe a 1/8 inch or 3/16 deep. So a sheet of water that is about 100 inches long and maybe 1/8 thick is diverted. Also I think that the Tige’ transition from the hull to the transom is only a little convex. Most of the water will see an abrupt change at the surface and will behave only a little differently than any other hull.

If the Coanda effect was really effective then Tige’ boats would get sucked down making wakes all the time. If the hull was pulled down strongly all the time then the high fuel mileage Tige’ claims that I hear about wouldn’t make any sense.

I’ve never been behind a Tige’ with or without ballast. If I were looking at one I would want to see the wake with and with out it. To be safe I’d buy a Tige’ with ballast. OK, to be honest Tige’ would be high on my list for wake surfing and I’d order it with ballast, but I’d replace the ballast tanks with an Enzo sack.

The coanda effect works more than what you would think. Try driving a supra or larger moomba or a Tige without a wakeplate. They wouldn't do so hot. Without that wakeplate on the boats their whole engineering idea is incomplete.

As far as patent infringement, I think most would find itbfunny to who actually started using this technology first (not Tige). There is one main diiference in the designs though. Tige puts a "rocker" on their entire hull from bow to stern calling it a convex v hull. Supra and moomba only emphasize this upward slope starting at the strut and continuing to the transom of the boat.

Go check out a supra in person and you will see what I am talking about. If you have a friend that knows physics or engineering that doesnt know nuch anout the different nrands take them with you. They should obviously be able to tell you that the effect of the hulls and technology will be the same. And I totally agree with you, you can't put a wakeplate on any boat and expect the same outcome that tige, supra, and moomba utilized.

Due to the simple fact alone that the Tige dealer network misinformes its customers time after time on this, I would go with Supra in this case. There are other reasons too but this thread is already a land mine. My further opinions on the matter aren't going to be helpful here. If you want more details you know how to reach me.

Jon, that's a little garbled by typos. I'm not sure what you were trying to say. I'm an engineer and work with other engineers, physicists, and scientists every day of the week.

I'm not sure what you’re calling the strut on a SC boat. The flow of water along the hull is about the same on most boats, at least what I think you're trying to describe. Where I think the Tige' flow is different and only slightly so is at the last few inches of the transom. A wakeplate works by lifting the transom up and disengaging the water flow before it follows the lip on the transom upward. I could be wrong so feel free provide corrections.

Tige' claims that a traditional has a donward lip

The Tige' hull curves up - a bit

A more gradual curve at the last few inches of the hull would have a stronger effect



The Razor Blade

I think the Razor Blade let's you adjust the amount of Coanda effect


I’m speculating that the Razor Blade also takes advantage of the Coanda effect and the only way to disengage it is to raise it high enough so that the water flow does not follow the curve. Looks like they have installed vortex generators on the Razor Blade. That probably helps disengage the water flow when needed.

sorry for all of the typos as I do not have access to a computer right now. I'm trying to do this by phone, haha. Anyways, the strut I am reffering to is the same as all tow boats. A strut is what holds the prop shaft on the bottom side of the hull. Maybe I'm not describing my thoughts clearly. Go look at a supra hull and you will know what I mean. And you are right on another thing, sloping up only at the rear of the hull definitely has its advantages.

Ed, thats a very interesting technology. How much of an effect do you think a small plate like that would make? As much as the wedge?

Man, this is going to be a long mathy post – sorry guys.

How big or small and much effect? That’s a mass flow problem. Most folks that have been through high school physics recognize F=ma. A less familiar version is F=d(mv)/dt. After a little work you can convert the second equation to F=r*A*v2. Where:
r = density (of water = 62.4 pound/cu ft)
A = Area (cross section)
v = velocity (note that 20 mph = 29.34 ft/s)

I don’t have any dimensional information on the Razor Blade. Let’s assume its 12 inches wide. Let’s also assume that only a thin layer of water follows the surface of the RB, maybe 1/8 of an inch. The total area that the diverted area passes through is: A=12*1/8 = 12/8 inches squared.

Let’s take velocity at 20 mph. Lets also assume that the water is diverted 90 degrees from the horizon to a vertical direction. The resulting force should be: F=(62.4lb/cu ft)(12/8 sq in)(1sq ft/144sq in)(29.34ft/s)^2 = 560 pounds!

I think it’s pretty optimistic to think that the flow of water would be diverted a full 90 degrees. The effect is reduced with the same figures but a smaller diverting. For exaample:
Angle One Blade Two Blades
30 degrees 140 lb 280 lb
45 degrees 280 lb 560 lb
60 degrees 420 lb 820 lb

That seems like a lot. I’d appreciate it if Jon or some one could check my figures and equations.

I've spoken with Scott Adams at Pivotal Designs. He said that the Razor Blade has not been released but it is intended for the I/O market. I don’t know why it wouldn’t work for an inboard, maybe they’d prefer to sell a SB for the inboard market. It sounds like the Razor Blade has less effect that the Switch Blade and the Wedge.

Both the Switch Blade and the Wedge are in prop wash. If your boat is going let’s say 20 mph the prop flow has to be a lot faster, lets say 40 to 60 mph. Since the flow is so much faster behind the prop the Wedge and Switch Blade have a lot more force to work with and therefore must be more effective. It sounds like the guys at Pivotal have the some really good technology and they understand hydrodynamics. Scott didn’t say that the Razor Blade works on the Coanda effect. I was starting to look at applying the Coanda effect myself and realized they had beaten me to it.

So if those figures are correct I’d say there’s a merit to the convex hull. I think that the Tige’ hull and any other that I’ve seen transition too abruptly from the bottom of the hull to the transom. I don’t think the Tige’ hull is taking full advantage of the Coanda effect.

What I’m looking for is a system that will let me switch from wakeboard to regular wakesurf at the flip of a switch. Then I want to flip the switch again change from regular surf to goofy surf. I haven’t seen that system yet but I’m going to key my eye on Pivotal.

I see where you are going with this now. I think that the new blade type wakeplate would work but not as much as calculated above. Unfortunately hydrodynamics is a bit more complicated than simple newtonian physics. I myself am no expert on this so I am unable to shed any more light.

I believe tige and supra cannot put any more of an upward slope on the rear of their hulls because it would limit the performance of the boat outside of wakeboard use. I can see it now, as soon as the boat gets over 20mph the boat would start to pourpoise uncontrollably.

While this new plate may be an aftermarket item to keep an eye on, I still say there will be no beating the right combination of ballast and hull shaping.

I'm an EE, this is way out of my field. I've discussed some of these ideas with a few others. You’re right hydrodynamics is really complex. I expect that the Wedge and SB should be much more effective than the RB. My figures seem to be too optimistic. It would be cool to see the RB in action and see some published data. I hadn’t thought about proposing, I’m not sure how that would happen. The effect increases as the square of speed. If the simple relationships that I show above held the effect would be huge at 30 mph.

I don't think the RB is what I'm looking for, but I think the Pivotal is working on some of the coolest wake enhancing tech around. They have a new Switch Blade that they haven’t released yet. Like I said whatever they are up to I want to keep my eye them.

Supra is my choice .and all boats need weight for a great wake..

Go take them both for a ride/drive. Here's a simple test to do for the handling, take the boat up to 30~35mph and do a full turn (as far as the wheel will go), see how each boat handles. Ride behind each boat and see how you like it. Drive them in rough water if possible. They are both great boats and you will probably be happy with either of them.

Also, keep in mind how the dealer will take care of you after the sale. Good Luck!

Timmy is right about dealer support. Both boats seem to be great, and how the dealer supports you is important.

Go look up any number of competitions that a Tige has pulled and see how bad the riders suck. (sarcasm). You will see all of the typical great tricks that you see during any competition. Some of the naysayers here would have you think they struggle to land a simple backroll behind it. Like they don't discover until they are at the dock which type of boat they are riding behind?

You should let your dealer know that you have advanced to the point that you are doing inverts, and expect to get better...then ask if you need ballast. If they still tell you that you won't want it, then they are just out of touch with things, and you might do better with a dealer that understands you.

Test drive and then tell us what you like better.

I don't want to start a wake picture war, but here are a few pics of my 24V with 1600 pounds and 2 or 3 people in the boat.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/513920.html

Pictures never do a wake justice for sure, so don't necessarily go by the size of the wake you see. The point is that you can get a terrific wake from the Tige, and if you are unable to complete a trick, it is not the wake's fault.

Test drive, test drive.

The reason you see Tige's going in the 60's is because after people look at all of their options, many people find it to be the best option. It is a simple supply and demand thing.

Little off subject here but did anyone see the episode of Pull where the Pro's did the retro thing? They used an old MC Barefoot 190 or something with no tower and a skurfer. The wake was barely anything and they were pulling awesome tricks on a hooptie board. It looked like it was a little more work for the riders but they were still able to pull off the tricks.

Timmy - more like way off topic but that is my favorite episode of Pull. Thomas Horell's part being particularly hilarious and awesome.

My point was that you can do the same tricks off of either wake...

I have footage of Scott Byerly, circa 1995 or so, from a clinic I did with him.

The boat?
An outboard Mastercraft barefoot boat. 4 people on board, no ballast. No extended pylon.

His tricks?
Absolutely everything. Mobes, fronts, switch mobes, h-glides, raleys, krypts. Blew my mind. Going up on The Wakeboard Report shortly.

It was so awesome. I can't wait to get it to you guys.

Basically what everything boils down to taste. Personally I think Supra makes a good boat, but cannot stand their seating layout. IMHO it's completely retarded. But the next guy may love it. That's why there are different brands. Different strokes for different folks.

I haven't found another inboard w/ the freeboard like the Tige has. And that's something that's important to me.

Your gonna be able to dial in a great wake w/ just about any of the big name boats on the market. It's how you like the fit, finish, and function. And lets not forget about the looks of the boat ;)

Honestly, we can all knit pick any manufacturer's boat. I can trash a bu, CC, and don't get me started on the MC's. I can pick out things I don't like about my Tige. It's all a matter of what fits you best... that's where the test drive comes in. Don't be afraid to spend some time in the store bouncing around from seat to seat inside the boat.

CHAD!!!
Both are good boats, Ballast will just make it even better both will be an upgrade from your i/o

BUT...

Stateamind Dosen't like to push ballast they lean away from it, I'm guessing thats why you got that answer.