What would you do?

Okay, let me paint the picture.

You meet some nice folks online and go out wakeboarding with them for the first time one weekend. Everyone is pretty cool, and you have a great time riding. Ready to walk out the door, and after leaving a generous chunk of change for gas money (not to mention that you brought a case of beer over too), the boat owner asks if anyone has an extra rope so he can ride doubles with a friend of his. You think to yourself, "No big deal, I'll offer my rope. I'm sure I'll be out here riding with these guys again soon." Within a couple of weeks, you email the boat owner about getting your rope and he didn't get back to you - you then emailed a couple of his friends, and they said they'd mention to the boat owner about getting your rope back.

Fast forward 6 months.

You finally email the boat owner again and request that he mail your rope to you. He replies that your rope was broken while using it, and he will not be replacing it.

What would you do?

I guess I'm really at a loss here. I don't think I've ever met anyone who broke something of mine and didn't offer to replace it. If I borrowed my neighbor's weed eater and broke it, I'd buy him a new one. Hell, if it ran out of string I'd go pick up a new spool before returning it. Shouldn't to same apply to a wakeboarding rope? If I asked to use someone's board one day and it broke while I was riding it, I wouldn't say, "oh well, boards break. Sorry." and then not offer to at least HELP with replacing it.

Where is this so called "wakeboarding community" that everyone speaks of where everyone helps each other and we all work for the advancement of and camaraderie in this sport?

I'm not going to be specific with who this involves (although some reading this will know), and I don't even think posting this thread will do anything positive to help this situation (except give me some input on whether me being pissed about the sitution is justified or not), but I'm posting anyways.

Thanks for your input.

I think he/you need to provide more detail. Just how was the rope broken. If you lent him a perfectly good rope - he owes you a new one. Now if it was a ten year old frayed piece - then I say not. If you know his friends I'd say bring them into the picture if everything is as you say. Personally I don't lend anything to anyone I don't know real well. There is a tasit rule in play here - if you lend someone something you are accepting the consequences of doing it, good or bad. But yes, I would be pissed!

As hard as it is... I'd write it off to experience. Even if the rope was new. He clearly doesn't intend to replace it. Unfortunately, not everyone has a sense of "what's right." It certainly won't serve any purpose to stay upset (even though I would be).
What goes around....comes around...
Lloyd

Thanks for the input Lloyd and Steve. For clarity, the rope was new. I had just purchased it a week earlier and it had been used only once.

I'd say you have all rights to be upset..but the advice to just right it off may be the best in the long run. I had something kinda similar happen to me and I just said...oh well..what do you do? If I broke someone else's rope I'd for sure replace it...and maybe something more if I had their stuff for 6 months and didn't do anything about it.........

If it were me, being a passive aggressive, I would write one last letter saying how disappointed I was and leave it at that. Being the better person in the end usually makes me at least feel somewhat better. Forget the choice words and threats etc., and be mature about it. Some people (Not everyone) SUCK!

Lloyd for president I have never seen anything that you have written not be dead on.

...just shows that that isn't the person you or anyone wants to ride with anymore.

This guy borrows a "new" rope and refuses to return it or replace it.

Chalk it up as a paid for education.

You learned the guy is looser.

Sounds like the guy has a problem with responsibility. I would let the People's Court or Judge Judy handle this one.

Thanks for the support.

SCREW THAT! Hunt him down and beat him! UUHHHHHH....I mean stay calm and handle it like an adult............no, beat him.

david, im live in tampa too, north tampa, lake magdalene. if you ever need a pull, i deffinately got a rope and probably the biggest X-Star wake you have ever seen, not exagerating, shoot me an email kyle13930@aol.com

oh and i would pour a bottle of water or two into his gas tank, it wont destroy the engine, but will just be a pain in the ass, believe me, i have water in my fuel injector and it is sooo freaking annoying, i have to put dry gas in every fill up

Dude if you know wherehe lives tehn just go to his house and get it back... if ur right in front of ur face then he cant be like "no im not giving you your rope back" if it helps bring some bing friends that look all tough... that discription fits me... if you need any halp backin you... you got me bro.... id just go talk to him in his face, not over teh meail.... and if that dosnt work.... go with the water in the gas..... but thing large portions (not 2 bottles.... 2 gallons)
Good luck and keep it down to earth with him...

Write your letter on the board you met him on, asking him why he thinks he is justified in not replacing what he broke, and then send him a link.

Another point is this: where did it break, and where is the rest? did the main segment break, and if so, where are the extensions?

If I borrowed a rope for 6 months and broke it, I would feel obliged to replace it with a better one. (unless it was a spectra. then you would get a spectra and a few bucks.)

How about putting his name up in this post somewhere, so other WAKEWORLD boarders will not get screwed over.

That is a pretty immature way to deal with fellow boarders, you would think that he would put himself in your shoes and think about the situation. This person is obviously suffering from "ROPE THEFT SYNDROME" and should be rushed to the nearest penetentiary.

Dills

David, Sorry to hear about your issue. It sucks when people aren't responsible.

Name and shame

Honestly, I don't think putting his name up would accomplish much. His friends on this board should remember this issue - they're really the only ones who know him or his name. I did meet him on this board though.

Interesting point Mike made above - I wonder what happened to the sections? I think the rope was 50+10+10+5 = 75feet total rope.

I'm pretty much writing this whole thing off to experience, but it still sucks nonetheless.

Thanks for the kind replies.

The rope didn't break till about 10 or so days after you left it there. Neighbor actually ran it over while said boat owner wasn't even home, but give me a shout and maybe a few of us can collect a little $$ to help with the cost of replacing it.

KARMA!!!!

i dunno. i would have replaced it for you. ive had similar stuff happen to me. for instance last summer, i was on a buddies boat when the anchor came loose, and BOOM, its at the bottom of lake pleasant along with 150' of rope. now i didnt tie off the anchor, so its hardly my fault. but i still paid for half of the replacement cost. just out of respect, and for him letting me use his boat from time to time.

What I would do wouldn't necessarily be good advice. This guys sounds like a real •••••••.

that sucks. i had 2 friends holding on to the dock while me and the others went up to the store to grab a few things. we come back down and my boat is in the middle of the lake near another boat. when they came back to pick us up, i asked what they were doing. they said the guy's boat stalled and they were gonna try and help out (they know nothing about boats, so i think that was a BS answer). later on that day, i am finished with my run and see a HUGE gash in the back side of my boat. i know for a fact i didnt do it. there was no way possible for me not to feel or hear when it happened. turns out, the one guy that didnt drive my boat earlier said the other one pulled up next to the stalled boat and heard a bang. the boats had hit.

the one friend who did it never confessed and i was out $400 for a nice fiberglass bill.

i sucked it up and realized a few things. either dont leave the keys. specifically say dont move this boat. just sit there and hold it. or....let others go and pay for the food, beer, etc. (probably should have done that anyway)

That deffinately sucks. Like several people have already said, write it off this time, as hard as that is, and don't lend your stuff out to people you don't ABSOLUTELY trust.

Call or email the guy and tell him that you really don't want the rope back if it is truly broke. But if it were 75' long there should be plenty of rope left for the guy to tie around his neck and jump from a balcony or get one last pull around the lake. Just playin man. Write it off and wait to see what happens to the jerk. His turn is coming.

Clay -

If the neighbor ran over it, shouldn't it be his responsibility?? I still don't see why no one bothered to call me after the rope was broken. Seems like it would have come up that the rope was borrowed and belonged to someone else.

Honestly, I'm pretty over it at this point, so don't worry about it. Thanks for the kind gesture though.

If it was something really expensive I would go after it and get it by showing up at his house, taking him to court, whatever. The dude definately owes you a rope and if some neighbor of his ran over it, what was he doing with it to let a neighbor have access to it to chew it up???? Since this isn't major bucks though, I would save your sanity and do what most have said and just chalk it up to experience.

If the rope broke, id still want the handle back. My dad ran over our rope this weekend , but it happens, still got 60ft of rope and a handle, or you could splice it together. Just forget the guy, buy a new rope and handle, and just take it as an experince like everyone else is saying. Live and learn

If I played guitar I would write a song about this....

Clay said: "The rope didn't break till about 10 or so days after you left it there.

I thought the rope was "borrowed" not "left there".

What do you do when you let someone borrow something... you "leave it there" (and yes... hopefully it gets returned !

The accused "boat owner's" boat broke down early AM, so instead of sending all of us home without riding, he made arrangements for us to ride on other boats that day (which is why rope was on neighbor's boat). A few of us who were there found out about this the other day, and decided to offer David some help after finding out exactly what happened... even though we never touched the rope. After reading this thread with death threats, and vandalism threats, and now getting bashed myself... I think I'll quit offering help to those who don't want it!

LATE
CST

Sorry Clay. Your wording bothered me but I can see that you did not mean what I was thinking.

In my book, when someone borrows something, they own the responsibility of returning it or replacing it.

If I could rap, I would rap about this... word!

This whole thing stinks of infidelity. So I wrote this tasty little melody in lymrick:

That gosh damn rope was really nifty;
The color glimmered in the afternoon sun,
But some d@ickhead
With a trailer
Neglected and ran that sucker over in a giffy.

More to come . . . .

Well I have learned a lesson here. Don't let others borrow your gear. Paul and Chad no more borrowing my stuff. Oh ya what would you do if you let someone use your Drysuit and they left in their ski locker for a week . That thing had the funk smelled like a dead animal. Chad YOUR FIRED.

Jeezus! It's even worse than I thought! Not only are there people out there who refuse to take responsibility for their actions, but the majority of this board seems to believe that people shouldn't even expect responsibility! What a load of crap!

I agree that getting mad is never the answer. Anger, IMO, is a weakness. I do believe, however, that a modest amount of pressure to get the rope replaced, eventually culminating in a new rope, public chastising, or maybe Judge Judy (?); is well within David's rights and really the right thing to do.

Indifference to this sort of behavior makes me sick and really reflects poorly on the direction in which our society is headed.

Unnamed Borrower,

If you borrow someone's stuff, you are responsible for its welfare. You usually shouldn't re-loan it but if you do, you are still responsible. It's a chain. Maybe the neighbor bears the ultimate responsibility but then you are responsible for making sure he honors it. Wherever it comes from, David should get his rope replaced.

http://www.judgejudy.com/

thats pretty low class for someone to do that..im really surprised because most of the wakeboard community ive met over the years are some of the most standup people you will ever meet..pretty close nit group..

i would keep asking for it or a fair price for the replacement of it..i would bug him to death about it..

if that doesnt work threaten him with public bashing and letting his name out all over town as an Ahole...

if that doesnt work i know payback isnt always the answer but id make him feel your loss through maybe a nice scratch on his boat or water/sugar in the gas tank..i dont promote this but if all else fails it will make you feel better

I know bill, you think that everyone who wakeboards realizes the dedication that we put into the sport. And if the guy owns the boat, he would realize how much it costs to participate in this sport. Just shows there are some low people in this world. Come ride with us, we wont screw you over.

Question? (sorry to kinda hijack the thread) Just because a rope breaks does it mean that it is worthless? Can't you just tie a proper knot in it and continue to use it? Obviously not at good as before, but still usable?

Wow, everyone needs to settle down over here!! I didn't think this would get so out of hand (with the limericks and vandalism suggestions and such).

For the record, I don't intend to put sugar in anyone's gas tank, scratch their boat, or do anything of the sort for retribution of any wrong doing. I was honestly looking for some feedback on this issue I was having, and at the time of posting, had already chalked up my loss to experience.

I understand that some people will take responsibility for their actions, and some will not. I guess I was just under the general assumption that most people in the wakeboarding community were "good people" and would step up to the plate when something like this happens. I was wrong.

Clay - sorry you feel like you got slammed in this thread. I appreciate you trying to help, even though I don't think this has anything to do with you and you shouldn't have to cover for someone else. Like I said above, thanks for the gesture - you're a stand up guy.

Anyways, I've learned my lesson. Unless it's a close friend, only lend out what you don't expect to get back.

So the rope was just ran over? tie and knot in it and get on with it.
If it were me who was left with the responsability (sp) and broke it, I'd give you a new one or one of mine. (but that's me)

sorry david... didn't see your response before I piped in last time ! You and your wife were definitely cool, and I was looking forward to riding with ya some more this summer.

BTW... I broke my right binding at wakefest last weekend... got one I can "borrow"

David, this guy sounds like a •••. If I were you I would take a dump on his boat to let him know how you really feel. OUT.

David,

I forgot to ask for the handle do you have that as well you panzy a*& whiner!

Boat owner

Eric -

What happened to, "I'll talk with my neighbor and see about replacing it,"
that you wrote in your first email below?

I think it would be one thing if you and I rode together all the time and
used my rope a lot and then it broke. Then I'd be like, "Oh well, big
deal." But the rope was brand new, and I lent it to you guys as a kind
gesture and never heard back from you for over 6 months. You didn't even
bother to call or email me after the rope was broken.

Please talk with your neighbor again and reconsider. I think under the
circumstances, you are at least partially responsible and should feel
accountable considering the above.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: eric@watercraven.com [mailto:eric@watercraven.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:26 AM
To: David Bricken
Subject: RE: what's up


David,

May 4, 2004 7:26 am , Nothing will be done with your rope. You lent it to
my neighbor. It got shreaded. I am not replacing it. Closure.

Eric

> Eric -
>
> I emailed you on the 27th and never heard back. Get back to me with a
> resolution about my rope. I'd like to get a replacement asap.
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eric@watercraven.com [mailto:eric@watercraven.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:39 PM
> To: David Bricken
> Subject: Re: what's up
>
>
> David,
>
> Your rope got broke last season on my neigbor's boat. I'll talk with my
> neighbor and see about replacing it.
>
> eric
>
>> Hey Eric - how's it going?
>>
>> Hey, I need you to do me a favor and mail me my rope from last fall. I
>> left
>> it with you and your neighbor when you rode doubles that weekend when I
>> was
>> at your house. It's a blue/white blazer shoestring line.
>>
>> Thanks. Here's my address.
>>
>> David Bricken
>> 19282 Wood Sage Dr.
>> Tampa, FL 33647
>>
>
>

So that's the original string of messages? Im brand new here, so I have no idea who is posting what, but from what I can gather, this guy could use a good lesson in "not being an irresponsible low-life scum bag." Maybe you should "borrow" his face and accidentally break it.

DISCLAIMER: That was a joke.

Mutual respect between wakeboarders, have him replace your rope if it was pretty new!!

Eric - I'm not sure what motivated you to put up the string of emails between yourself and & David, but you aren't doing yourself any favors by doing so..

If you haven't already, you need to man up and take care of this.

I've met a lot of cool people on this site which has lead to me riding with a lot of new people. I have riding friends in Florida as a result of this site. Eric is the first exception I have seen so far. That's just wrong man.

I really like to hear both sides of the story before I comment on issues like this. Eric, are you trying to make a case for yourself here? If so, you're not doing a very good job. Send the handle back and get the rope replaced. If your neighbor did it, get him to buck up for it. At the very least have your neighbor contact David, so they can settle it. Now speaking of "panzy a*&'s", it's sounding like you are the one who's too scared to talk to your neighbor and get this situation resolved properly.

Wow. Just.. wow.

I'm very surprised that most of the posters here are so passive. "Chaulk it up to experience"? Not in my world.

Eric- You're lucky that David seems to have a level head. If you would have done something like that to me, I'd still be sitting in jail. Grow a pair, get a life, and send him some cash.

Unbelievable.

Put his name on here so no one else gets burned.

Hey guys, check out Eric's profile, where he list what kind of boat he has

"White Trash Towboat"

I think that explains everything!

Yeah, after reading this post I am speachless. I mean, common. If I let someone borrow a brand new rope/handle I would definatly expect it back in short order. If someone did the same to me, like Trent said, I would be in jail

Put it back into context. I invited David to go wakeboarding on my new boat that I had purchased the week before, out of kindness to fellow riders. In the process riding, my boat malfunctioned therefore require us to use my neighbors boat to allow our fellow riders additional pulls. David lent the rope out to my neighbor to use for doubles. In the next week of getting my boat repaired, I did not keep track of David's $40 rope. To be honest I was more worried about getting my $31,000 boat fixed then of keeping track of some $40 rope that was left on my neighbors boat. When I went to retrieve the rope I found out it was broken. I didn't think it was a big deal until I'm getting BASHED by the "THE BANDWAGON CREW" on Wakeworld for a extending an invitation a guy, I don't even know, for (8) hours of riding on a Sunday afternoon.

David you need to move on. I didn't borrow you rope. I didn't break you rope. You have been worried sick for six monthes about a $40 dollars. In that time, I have spent over $2,000.00 on boat payments to take people like yourself riding. Show some respect.

(making notes) So because I own the boat, I don't need to bother with helping a brutha out? All I gotta do is pass the buck to someone else who was there that day? I been missin' out on all the ropes, vests, boards, towels, T shirts, cameras, watches, and cell phones that have been left behind?

The way I see it, David asked you for a little help getting his rope back, and you basically said that you are above that. Boat owner or not, makes you an a$$

Dun Dun Dun, Stay Tuned next week for.......... Just Kidding! Now with the context changed 'Eric' doesn't seem so at fault. Not that David's at fault but you kinda gotta keep track of your own stuff around strangers. Unless something was specifically said concerning use of the rope no ones going to give it much thought. Just my opinion. I've had stuff happen to my stuff before because I left over at someone house to either use or hold on to for me. I know stuff happens when you rish leaving something out of your control... even with good friends.

So Jeff, If you leave your cell phone in my boat on the lake and a storm comes thru and swamps my boat thereby ruining your cell phone. Would I now be liable because YOU left your cell phone on my boat? OR should I set aside extra }time to wipe your a$$ every time you bum a ride.

COME ON GUYS, THIS POST IS STARTING TO BUM ME OUT. I know I don't have to read if I don't want to but I like this discussion board and like to read everything on it. Eric I see your point from two posts ago (so long as thats really what happend). David I see your point and frustration and also understand you didn't ask for all these posts to happen. Can everyone except things for how they are maybe end with a little mutural respect on both sides. Maybe all three parties(neighbor included) put up equal amounts and use this as a learning block for future times. Shoot, figure out someway of everyone person on this post to donate 1 dollar you'll have yourself a nice rope. I'd do it if it were simple enough and really cost us only 1 dollar. I would just like to see some pictures of ya'll riding together using it. Anyways just my thoughts, sorry to all involved that this happend.

Don't stop. This is like a fight on real world. You just can't look away.

I see both sides. BUT Eric, Why didn't you talk to YOUR neighbor about getting the rope back. He asked you to and you said you would. Whoever broke the rope should pay.(the neighbor) but Eric is the one who hooked him up with the neighbor. Although if eric didn't have anything to do with borrowing the rope he wasn't responsible for it. But Eric sure turned into an ••••••• quick after saying he would check into replacing it.

David
email
www.420EMPIRE.com
Our company will buy you a new rope and handle.

late/jake

Well that solves the problem!


Now this thread can die the peaceful death it deserves. David, don't loan the new rope out to anyone ok?

I dont know if you were involved in the situation but if you were'nt that is a stand up thing 420empire is doing....

Eric, I sure hope you know the difference between apples and oranges. Would be more accurate if I let you or one of your friends borrow my cell phone, and then one of you drops it in the water. Again, David asked for your help, and you blew it off. Oh yeah, might wanna hold back on the a$$ wiping comments. Don't want anyone getting the wrong idea about you.

Jake - nice to see some one help a rider out.

(Message edited by socalwakepunk on May 19, 2004)

QUOTE: "David you need to move on. I didn't borrow you rope. I didn't break you rope. You have been worried sick for six monthes about a $40 dollars. In that time, I have spent over $2,000.00 on boat payments to take people like yourself riding. Show some respect."

Dude, he didn't break your boat... your boat malfunctioned. If I were him, I would be somewhat pissed about a $40 rope! Whether or not you are in $600,000 worth of debt due to your own equipment/problems, you and your neighbour are still responsible for his rope.

If I broke a guy's neck and paralysed him, then caused another guy to die... I can't say "Dude, have some respect! I'm responsible for someone else's death, so get off my back about this paralysed guy!"

In the end, you and your neighbour are still responsible for his rope. It's not David's fault his rope got broken, and it's not his fault that he will never get it back.

just coz your a stuck-up little f*ck with enough money to go out and buy himself a "$31,000" boat, (which then "malfunctions" within a week) doesnt give you the right to treat others like sh*t. he LENT it to you cause YOU wanted to ride doubles. he didnt leave it there, stop trying to avoid all responsibilty.

Yo...can I borrow a rope for just a little while, mine malfuctioned. I promise to give it back...someday, even if I break it. And Jeffy, can I use your phone dude, mine malfuctioned. I promise to give it back...someday, even if I break it. Oh yeh...anybody got aboat I could borrow, I promise to give it blablabla**********

yea Eric and ropes are more expensive then 40 dollars now adays..it cost 15 dollars just for the 5 ft extensions on mine..Besides it was you all that were using the rope and you and your neighbor and all who were usuing it should have chipped in 20 bucks each and bought him a new rope..beides if it was only forty bucks as you say then it shouldnt be a big deal getting it relaced..

example last summer i was filling some fat sacks on a friends boat with a 120 dollar rule 2000 gph pump. i let it go for a second to grab a cap off the floor to cap it when splash the dang thing went over the side and i jumped in after it to try and save it,well it was heavy pump and hit the bottom lost forever..

now he had another pump so no big deal right??i own a 30k boat as well so shouild i have told him to just chaulk it up as a loss and it was his problem??Hell no i went out the next week and ordered a new pump and gave it too him next time out..

another example one day last year some friends were all out at a river riding and they were using another friends rope and hanfdle when it got ran over..he was even there using it with them..well the rope wasnt even that bad and was tied back together where it broke but the guy who ran it over and the rest of the crew kept and used the old rope/handle and bought the guy a new one ..

these are just examples.thats stepping up !

if i was to lose my glasses or phone on your boat ,no i wouldnt ask for those to be replaced because those are personal items that we bring on the boat and are responsible for..and if we lose them then we replace them...however if you sit on my 100 dollar Oaks then id expect an apology and maybe some free pulls to make up for it

now if he would have ran over his own rope then we wouldnt be here but it was left with you and your neighbor to use in good faith and it should be replaced ! Period its the right thing to do..

Good points and a valuable lesson learned. I'll buck up and pay for David's rope.

But in (8) years of wakeboarding, boat owning and helping grow the sport by loaning out gear, have I ever asked for one penny for lost gloves, broken bindings, broken fins, broken lifevests, broken ropes or gas.

I guess I have to start getting new riders in our group to sign a waiver indemnifying me against all loss, damage, and bodily injury as condition to wakeboarding on my boat.

EE

You just aren't getting it are you Eric? dumba$$... That's okay pay for the mans rope and I'm quite positive he won't be boarding with you anymore.

KStateAlumni, Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Both points. I'm gettin taxed for something I had no control over.

WOO HOO for 420 empire. That gesture alone earns my business for them. That is a noble offer made by 420 and it tells me that they are customer oriented. Great Offer guys