Glass and Powder is a B.S. Shop.

I just went online to oder a Hardline DHS handle. I was ready to purchase it and then the shipping cost was 15.00 dollars. That is rediculous. I called them to see if they would charge me exactley what the shipping cost was and they said no 15.00 dollars is a fixed price. It would cost less then 5.00 to ship a handle using ground. It's just B.S. So who wants to sell a Hardline DHS handle or buy from me 2 brand new grips for a Hardline handle.

I was going to tell you to try Boarder's Paradise but their price is $10 more so you'd end up about the same after shipping.

You might want to go with B.P. anyway since their pricing/shipping system seems to be a little more up-front and honest, i.e. not trying to entice you with low prices then making it up on the shipping.

I don't know that I would call G&P a "bs" shop, they take good care and give great deals for a lot of people.

Check out Wakeside.com. They don't carry Hardline, but they do carry Accurate and Straight Line ropes and handles.... and more direct to your complaint with G&P, Wakeside offers FREE shipping for all orders over $50. Check em out:

WAKESIDE.COM

(Message edited by D_O_double_G on August 23, 2004)

www.buywake.com

I sell Gator Grip and let me tell you there is more to just the shipping cost than you think. It's the cost of the box, time you spend creating a shipping label and then time involved in handling. So, I would agree that $15 is probably a little bit high but, $10 to ship wouldn't be unreasonable.

Chris
Get the Grip you Deserve
www.wakejunky.com

they'll get you one way or another won't they?

BoardStop has tons of options on on how you have it shipped. I believe they have the handle you want in stock as well. http://boardstop.com

That's strange. I just ordered a pair of Temet bindings and shipping was only $9.50. Maybe some of it depends where they are shipping to, but he confirmed the shipping amount with me before he sent them. Good price!

I'd just like to point out that Boarder's Paradise and Boardstop are the only shops in this thread that carry Hardline stuff. Since it's obvious that Greg needs a Hardline DHS handle (he already has grips for it), I don't even know why people are mentioning other shops.

Thanks guys Board Stop got the sale.

Greg--Your 29 and complaining about $5-10? Come on man and grow up.

five buck is five bucks Tim, ever heard the saying money doesn't grow on trees? how old are you?

i wouldn't complain about the shipping...it seems like they are having great deals. I bought my Drake Matrix bindings there at the end of the winter for a good deal!

It's not about the prices. It's about the integrity. For a more extreme example, check out Ebay. You'll see stuff on there for really cheap BuyItNow prices but if you read the fine print (which they hope you won't do), the shipping will be $35 for something that weighs 4 ounces. As far as I'm concerned, that's a scam. It's legal and people should always read the fine print, but it's still dishonest.

It looks to me like Glass and Powder lowers their prices and jacks up their shipping because they think people will compare prices, see that theirs are lower, and go to check out. Only after entering all their info will they see the high shipping charges, at which point, most will probably just go ahead with it. It's almost like a bait and switch. Once your already in there, you're probably not going to bolt when you find out the deal isn't as good as you thought.

It would be a different story if the shipping charges weren't hidden until you're already almost all the way through checkout.

Salmon, to make matters worse, it appears that a great deal of their 50% boards and bindings (below MAP) are no longer in stock, yet the website was not updated. Yet another example of bait and switch - suck you in and voila! Item not available - and you don't find out till after you order them.

Why is G&P bs? It tells you right off the back what the shipping chargers are and it also tells you to call to make sure it's in stock.

I wanted an 04 absolute so I called and they were out of stock. No bait and switch.

I think people get all happy that the board they want is so cheap and then get all upset when it's out of stock.

I also think it's cool as hell that shops like this one hook riders up like US!

Tim H - It's not about the money...

Salmon - That is exactly my point. It has nothing to do with the amount of money but how it was marketed to me. I still spent $90.00 bucks for the handle but at least they were honest about it. Shipping is not expensive if your not in a hurry.

ant bug, i am in complete accordance with you.

Ant Bug - I could ship a wakeboard handle across the country for 2.00 that is why it is B.S.

No beef here. When I told the guy at G&P my concern with the shipping issue, he told me that he would call UPS and verify the exact amount before he processed my order. He called me back less than 10 minutes later and told me that it would be $9.50 to ship my new Temet bindings. I said that was cool that they are on their way.

I can understand the frustration though, but you should always call to verify orders. I hate just purchasing something online not knowing final pricing, if it's in stock, etc.

That's it...my $.02

Greg ~ I agree with you but people are not ordering handles here. We are talking about Wakeboards. I am not trying to defend a shop I don't even work for but my local shop doesn't even hook me up like this and if I have to pay a little more (in shipping) to support a shop that looks out for the riders, then they are going to get my business.




That is if it's in stock

I called myself and asked if they would charge me exactly what shipping cost and the owner (or said he was the owner) told me he had already cut the shipping cost 50% and that $15 was non-negotiable. I would much rather give the same amount of money to any company or shop that is honest with me...don't lie...you lost a sale.

Wow, is it beat up on Glass and Powder week or something? I've seen like three threads so far that have dumped on the shop.
About the shipping issue, last time I checked, Ski Limited, Overton's, Bart's, and Boat US, had set shipping costs based on the cost of the item, not the weight. So if I bought a piece of paper that cost $200, it would cost me like $20 to ship it. You guys are getting boards and gear at 50% off retail and you are complaining about shipping.
As for the integrity of the shop, myself and many of my friends have ordered gear from Glass and Powder and the staff have always been awesome to us. All of the people that own and work at G&P ride, the sponsor several local events, and give more back to wakeboarding than I could ever hope to.
Oh yeah, YES I AM SPONSORED BY GLASS AND POWDER. Just so everyone knows, so you can flame away saying that I'm only sticking up for them because they sponsor me. HOWEVER, I wanted to get sponsored by G&P because of my past dealings with them. Before I was sponsored by them, before they even knew who I was, they went out of their way to help me pick out a pair of short over the phone. From that day on I knew I wanted to ride for them, and was lucky enough to be able to now.
Ok, that's my spill, don't hate me for it.
Tiffany

Antbug, it is a deceptive business practice to suck in prospective buyer with low low prices only to find that the item is not in stock.

The GnP website was a prime example of this - GnP looked really, really bad to a bunch of people who placed orders on the 50% sale, only to get an email a day or so later with an "out of stock" message.

GnP is a big enough shop - they should have had that website up to date after whatever blowout sale they had at their retail location so that unsuspecting buyers were not plugging in credit card info into the website and paying for items that were not there in the first place.

You can argue that GnP is great, but it does not change the fact that it was a poor business decision and many potential customers (and the ensuing referrals therein) have been turned off by it.

Well it looks like G&P updated the website. Most of the boards I just looked at said SOLD OUT.

FYI I'm extremely please with G&P. I just got a new parks board for 50% off, shipping was only $15, and I got a pair of reef sandals for 11 bucks plus $3 shipping. I fail to see any ripoff in this scenario. Thanks G&P!

There is no rip-off going on at G&P. I checked their web site during the sale and found a smoking deal on a new board. Anyone who runs a web site should know that it is a lot of work to update it everyday. I know that when I called to order my board (and to check to see if it was available), they said they had been selling over 15 boards a day during the sale, not to mention bindings, etc. You can not expect the web site to be accurate to the day during a blowout like this. How much effort does it take to pick up the phone and make a call? Could save you a lot of grief. As far as shipping charges, all you have to do is ask about it. Like on one of the previous posts, the shop adjusted the shipping charges. THAT'S customer service if you ask me. I got my board, a t-shirt, and a DVD, shipped for $15, and a hell of a deal on all of it. Many of the other sites had the same board I ordered (04 HL TFD DNA for $275) still advertised for close to retail. I called a couple of them and could not get a better price out of them. G&P will get more bussiness out of me. I checked around, and could not find anyone having a sale as good as theirs.

G&P is the shizzle my nizzle. I just bought an 04 Temet DNA for 290.00. Thats a smoooooking deal. So I want complain about the shipping.

Some silly rip off artist went to that G&P blowout sale and racked up a TON of gear only to turn around and attempt to sell it again for the original regular fee. MIGHT be why they ran out of all that sale gear so quikly. In G&P's defense, they sure do put on some GREAT tournements. They are good people

A word to the wise....Shipping can cost you..Anyone or store that does not charge for shipping is a fool $15 for handle is not a big deal...Shoping online is a joke...hyperlite boards 50% off it must be a 2nd or a 3rd!!!! There is no way....

JBG

Buzz, you don't know much about e-business do you? I don't care if they sell 50 boards a day, It IS very simple to do if you have a properly built website - and I mean VERY simple and it doesn't take a computer geek to do it.

GnP really needs to take a hard look at how that site works so they can avoid these problems in the future.

Yes they should have updated the site quicker, but common sense people, if you are selling boards and bindings for half off, the cheapest Ive ever seen prices like that then they are going to go so fast. Also, ordering online, it takes a while to process, pick up the phone, order, it is put in on the spot.

Duane

It's actually a great shop in my experience. I started boarding about 3 years ago and talked to a guy at their shop for about an hour on the phone determining the differences between 3-stage and continuous rockers, faster boards for bigger riders, 2 vs. 4 or six fins... very very helpful. I decided to drive down and bought an Origin SwampThing board for like $150 less than anywhere else. Also was just at the Mid Atlantic Regional Wakeboard tourney sponsered by them and they had everything %50 off. Very nice owners and committed to the sport!

Chavez, Buzz had a valid point so it's a bit naive on your part to make that statement. While it is easy to build an e-commerce web site like you say, it's still takes a bit of knowledge to know where to start and what software is apporpriate for your needs. Not something that you would expect to be easy for some guys that are more interested in the wakeboard biz than computers.

All this crap about G&P being a BS shop because of the price of shipping on a handle is BS as well. Get over it and buy the freak'n handle elsewhere if it bugs you.

lucky, i am sure we can round up the extra 3 dollars from everyone online wanting to donate to a charity case like you.

John, if they want to play with the big dogs, they need to come prepared. They are obviously not a tiny shop (anymore), so maybe it's time to call in some real IT people to get it right for them. Like I said before, it is not that hard if done right to the point where you would not need to be a computer geek to do the updates. A simple web-based GUI to update quantity on items as they go.

If they really wanted to do it right they could link the website to real-time store inventory, but I digress...



Oh, BTW, I totally agree with your statement regarding S and H. It does take time and it does cost money - so they either have to raise prices to absorb that cost or charge you in addition to the product. As long as businesses are totally up-front with it, there is no room for complaints.

Wow, I'm glad I was able to log on tonight. My name is Scott, and I am one of the owners of Glass & Powder Boardshop. The shop is the culmination of a ton of dreams, sweat, and hard hard work to give our customers the best possible service we can possibly give. We built it from a tiny shop in early 1999 to a two-shop entity where every employee rides. No exceptions.

We have never, and will never, ever "bait and switch" anyone.

We are a small shop that doesn't have an IT staff (that's me) or a web development team (also me and another person that I outsource to). I apologize that it took us a few days to get all items marked "sold out". The fact is that our sale has been very popular and we haven't been able to update the site as quickly as I would like. In terms of shipping costs, we knew we were going to be busy as hell every day. We also knew that we are already losing money selling items for 50% off. That's below our cost. Not to mention the shipping that WE paid to get the product to us. To simplify things on our end so that we were able to process the number of orders that were coming in, we instituted a quick/easy shipping scale. I'm sorry that it seemed unreasonable to you, but when you come down to it...you're buying things at 50% OFF. Not 25, not 40...50% off!

Please accept my apologies for any undue shipping charges. Our intent was always to say "thank you" to our customers by offering 50% off, and in no way were we trying to deceive or bait anyone with our shipping costs. You have my word on it. There are people in these forums that have known me for many years that can speak for my personal convictions.

Cheers,

i'm one of them. scott is one of the most reliable and helpful person when it comes to dealing w/ shops. which is why i hound him every now and then to open up a glass and powder in the sacramento area. (makes perfect sense, right? glass = river/delta, powder = tahoe)

Scott, I highly recommend you take up some of my suggestions regarding your e-business. Either go slap your external IT guys silly or fire them and pick someone up who can provide you a better solution that keeps track of your stock.

You WILL benefit in the long run with better inventory tracking, sales projections, customer service, and the most important item for a small business owner: overall piece of mind.

Sorry about the bait and switch comment, but on the surface, that is exactly what it looked like.

Chavez - You are definitely right updating a web-site is not hard, but it is very time consuming. A lot of times "time" is hard to come by, especially when your trying to run a business, processing, packing, shipping, and trying to keep your customers, let alone your family happy.

Shawn - we are not talking updating a whole site, rather updating a simple inventory screen that could be done at time of sale.

Hell, they could even use their own website to transact sales at the counter - use it like a POS terminal and bingo! Inventory updates itself! (Assuming the site is built properly)

This is an oversimplification, but I'm sure you see my point.

Chavez, why not just recommend that super easy eCommerce package that anyone, even those who aren't programmers can use to do what you are talking about. It's been my experience that it's hard to find that practically perfect easy to use software because there are so many packages that claim to do what you say but fall far short.

The reality is that you haven't made any suggestions. Hiring and firing IT guys until you finally get that totally automated site built can be expensive. I'm slightly inclined to think that you are definitely oversimplifying and getting a site built properly isn't as easy as you make it sound if you don't get the right direction from the start.

Props to G&P. Nothing but great customer service and excellent prices!! Thanks Scott.

Chavez - Very tactful. I was not trying to claim to be an IT pro (but apparently you are much more knowledgeable than I). The only point I was trying to make is that people should not ASSUME the web site is up to date and accurate, and it would just be a "good idea" to pick up the phone and make a call to check availability, especially during a big blowout sale like this. Nothing more!

Scott - Thanks for getting on the board and chiming in. Hope it clears things for some of the folks who are upset. I spoke with you on the phone when I placed my order (about shipping charges, etc). You were VERY helpful (as well as teh female salesperson who took my initial order), and you even cut me a deal on a DVD just to keep me happy. That's what customer service is about. I am sure you can count on me as a return customer. Thanks again!

Scott, I appreciate your reply, I was not buying an item that was 50% off so not all of your reasoning applies. And I probably would not have been bothered by your shipping cost either if they had been disclosed prior to me putting all of my shipping info in to the site. In my situation I was mad because you wanted 15 dollars to ship something that would fit in a standard UPS package and weighs less then a pound. 15 dollars is fair for a pair of binding to be shipped. Any who; I felt disceived on your web site but flat out insulted when I called your shop and tried to give you the business. I bought the same handle from another shop and did not save much money but I was satisfied that they were straight up.

To any one still giving me •••••••••• a few dollars, it was never about the money....

John, you apparently did not read any of my posts if you think I didn't make any suggestions.

Oversimplification? Yes. This is not rocket science though, it is simple e-business/commerce solutions that all reputable web designers should have in their bag by now. I even talked it over with a few reputable designers that I know, and they all agree that it is not difficult to implement such a plan.

They did however say that a real time inventory management system may be a bit cost-prohibitive at the onset (about $10000 just to get it launched) but in the long run would be extremely beneficial.

BTW - they did like my POS terminal idea. The only problem they saw would be integrating with a cash drawer, but that could be remedied with simple accounting/z-out at the end of the day.

Buzz - I agree that the only way to be 100% sure is to call.

Chavez, I meant suggestions as to how to get the job done as easily as you indicated. Not describing ideally what they should have. You clearly indicated it was a no-brainer by suggesting that it doesn't take a geek to do it. Assuming that "geek" means someone experienced in the field of web design. I thought perhaps you could suggest one or more eCommerce packages that one could choose from.

Theh owner indicated that he's the web designer. It's not a big suprise to me that either he is doing or some friend that knows a bit about web design. That's why I felt it was naive to come down that critical on G&P over the issue of realtime updates.

Someone needs to post that cartoon of the guy beating that dead horse. Seems appropriate. Where the hell is Salmon??

Scott Dickens, I jumped on a deal for Temet 142 DNA for 290.00 and was charged $30.00 shipping which is fine. However, I received the board today and it has a some scuff marks on top of the board and one ding on one edge where the graphics is rubbed off and all you see is white. Anyway, I called your shop today and the guy told me if I wanted to send it back to exchange it I would have to pay shipping to send back to you and pay shipping again to send the new board to me. I don't understand because the board is damaged. Needless to say I was very disappointed.

Although I received a board from them for a great price, mine too was scratched up some on the top and stuff. It looked like it was a floor model. I didn't call them and complain because I got a good deal. . .but, it's kinda disapointing when you think you are getting a new board and it comes to you with blemishes on it already.

Unfortunately, the best price is not always the best deal. Then again, if all the board has are a few cosmetic blemishes, it will ride the same no matter how it looks.

True, it does ride the same and I'm still happy with my purchase. My only point was that if I buy a "new" board from someone, then I expect to receive a "new" board in the mail, that's all.

There is no question this is a good price, but I bought a brand new Temet DNA period. There is nothing on their website stating sold as is basis. I was so excited about my new board coming in and when I open the box it was like a slap in the face. I just don't appreciate it at all. It is almost insulting.

Lance and Justin: I'm sorry if you guys' boards got damaged in shipping. If there is physical damage to the board from UPS damaging it, then let's file a claim with UPS and get this thing covered!

If you guys are seeing slight superficial scuffs on the top, that could very well be from being on the boardracks in the shop. We display over 120 different boards, and they all sit in the board racks (which have protective rubber holding them in place). Sometimes during the course of customers picking up the boards and sliding them in and out of the racks, they can get VERY superficial scuffs on them. The alternative is to leave them shrink-wrapped, which is obviously hard because customers want to see the board/graphics, so you ultimately have to unwrap them anyway. Usually those scuffs are MUCH less than a typical rider gets on his board the first weekend on the lake.

If the board is not rideable or you think the damage is too much for you to deal with (for the price), then ship it back to us and we'll refund your card. Nothing we sold is "used" or shows any physical damage when we ship. What happens once the board is in UPS's hands....well, who knows.

For the record, we've gotten four physical complaints regarding sale items at the shop other than the message board, so these issues are VERY few and far between given the thousands of sales that we had over the last week or so.

Again, my apologies to those who have had a bad experience with the shop. I will do all in my power to make sure that all shoppers are happy.

I appreciate all the IT advice, too! Believe me, I'm looking into just about everything that's been suggested - I was before the conversation on wakeworld.com ever started. The entire site will see a MAJOR makeover before the end of the year. I think you guys will be stoked. Until then we're dealing with the issues as quickly and efficiently as we can. Thanks for all the constructive criticism. It is appreciated.

Cheers to all who ride,

Scott

Scott,

No problem here. Like I stated above, I'm happy with the purchase. I'm not one to complain about stupid little stuff like this, I was just pointing out it happened to me too. You could definitely tell my board had been handled quite a bit and that it was put in and out of the racks quite a bit. One suggestion might be to only use one board as a floor model and then keep the rest in the back. When you get down to only having the floor model left, then you could sell that board for maybe a little less money. Either way though, it's not a big deal. You guys were great to deal with and gave me a great price on the board. It's just that some people get upset when they are expecting to get one thing and then it ends up not being what they expected.

Scott,
When you say "If the board is not rideable" and "Nothing we sold...shows any physical damage when we ship", it kind of sounds like these could be what some places term as blemmished boards. As you probably know, "Blem" boards are advertised as not affecting performance and only slight cosmetic flaws. If some of the boards you sell fall under the "blem" discription, it would be fair to note it so people aren't surprised.

Scott, I can live with scuff marks but there was a pretty good ding on mine and don't think it was damaged in shipping. Anyway, I'm shipping the board back today and (I think his name was Mike) is holding a Temet 142 DNA for me and he said he will be ship the new one when mine is returned. It is just frustrating because I thought I was getting a super deal and now that I have to pay $90.00 in shipping charges it has turned out not to be a such a great deal. I'm sure you can understand my frustration.

I thought I would add a re-cap post. I'm the author of the thread that originally pointed out the G+P sale on WakeWorld. I thought I'd add that I ordered a 2004 Prodigy Platinum 140 as part of the sale and it arrived yesterday. The entire transaction took place as expected and the board arrived in perfect condition. (I must admit, this thread had me a little worried.) I'M VERY PLEASED WITH GLASS AND POWDER BOARD SHOP! I got a great deal and I appreciate it.

(However, if I had paid double the posted shipping price, I would not be a happy camper -- I'm sorry for all the trouble you're having Lance. It sounds like you're being made out to be a picky guy, when I think all you're really expecting is what was advertised.)

Thanks Matt, your are exactly correct " all I'm expecting is what was advertised" I'm really not trying to be picky. I feel positive that Glass and Powder will come thru in the end and that is all that matters despite paying all the shipping charges. I do not regret doing business with G&P.

Scott - I suggest you check out the other site and browse the General Wake section. Apparently there is another complaint about a board that was sold new but was in fact a blem - staples under the bottom sheet.

As someone who lives near G&P and has dealt in person with Scott and others at both shops, All I can say is that everyone there is super friendly, extreamely knowledgable and helpful! IMHO they are honest and good people to deal with. I can attest to the fact that their Sale cleared out their inventory very quickly. I was lucky to have purchased a TFD DNA at a Very good price but when I went back to get some binding, they had sold out of everything. Like any place there is always room for improvement, but these guys are very supportive of the local wakeboard community and great to deal with.

Todd

Performance (an advertiser on this site) has (had?) a sale recently, wherein they sold their floor and warehouse "scratch & dent" merchandise at lower prices. It seems a similar disclosure on the G&P site would have prevented this thread.
Just sayin'

These are NOT "scratch and dent" models. There are staples under the bottom sheet of ALL Hyperlite boards, and it is visible in about half of them, specifically the Byerly boards! I personally think it's pretty cool to see how the fiberglass is wrapped over the edges and stapled. The staples are also in the topsheet (if you look). Jeeez, it's a LOT easier to log onto message boards and bitch than just call and ask a simple question.

Unlike other shops, we have NEVER bought seconds and sold them as firsts. No exceptions.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Scott

sometimes these threads are so flipping lame!

scott you are the man! i had the privledge of meeting you back in Virgina @ the Bluetorch ride and slide event...in 2000!

so sorry to read some of the posts on this thread...

your posts speak volumes about you. you don't deserve this crap!

(Message edited by martini on August 26, 2004)

I just received my LF Team today in pristine condition. I proudly affixed the enclosed G&P decal to the board. Thanks for leaving the original price tag on the board.(What a great deal!)

Well...After having posted on here several times defending G&P, I regretfully have to join the crowd of haters.

I got the bindings I ordered in great condition, but they don't fit me. I emailed G&P to only find out that I'm unable to return them now. What a shame when they haven't been used and I only would want to exchange them.

I just really wish someone would have told me this beforehand. You assume that if something isn't as you ordered or doesn't fit, that you'll be able to return it.

Well, guess that's the way it goes.

that suck. what bindings are they?

Mini-medium Temets.

Jarret that sucks. I have used bindings before and returned them. I got my new Temet today and it looks brand new. I'm still a little sour about paying shipping 3 times becasue $290.00 turned into $380.00 and it could have been prevented. I'm still happy because even at $380.00 is the same price a buywake.com so I'm fine.This will be the last board I buy for a while so I wanted to buy the DNA and I'm totally stoked can't wait to try it out.

Thanks Lance...glad you got yours worked out.

The thing that upset me was that the manager told me that there no return policy was "written on the receipt." Well, it's a little by then since you usually see a receipt AFTER you make a purchase.

Oh well, guess I'll try to sell them the hard way.

That SUCKS! I'm loving my local board shop more and more with every post. I've even ridden boards and bingings and returned them to my local shop. Worst case, they charge me a $15 demo fee.

"These are NOT "scratch and dent" models."

By your own definition (from your earlier post), they are (perhaps "scuffed and stapled" is better verbiage):

"If you guys are seeing slight superficial scuffs on the top, that could very well be from being on the boardracks in the shop."

"Sometimes during the course of customers picking up the boards and sliding them in and out of the racks, they can get VERY superficial scuffs on them."


"Unlike other shops, we have NEVER bought seconds and sold them as firsts."

No one said that was the case.

Who and where are those OTHER shops?
Caveat Emptor, Inquiring minds, etc.

(Message edited by wakecord on September 02, 2004)