Behind a Bayliner

Couldn't get my pics to go....links don't work for me either in posts. Can't make a w2w jump. I've done everything from charging the wake like a raging bull from way out in the flats to beginning my approach 15ft outside the wake. I can get 3/4 across all the time. Should I try shortening the rope? I'm using 60ft including the handle. Last time out I did figure out power slides and surface 180's. My driver says he's doing 21mph and I don't even approach the wake unless it's shaped right. (No white water) It is a mellow wake unless you trim the I/O. Then It become very steep. Suggestions? I'll try to get some pics of the wake up. Thanks.

(Message edited by grampawakerider on February 19, 2004)

Be sure that you are using a good progressive edge and really loading the line with tension. Also, make sure that you are standing tall when you hit the wake and not absorbing it with your knees. Hope this helps.

trim the boat, and learn how to cut and jump don't charge it. Try and pop of the wake. wakeboaring is a resistance game. the more resistance you can get against the boat the better. when you cut in you want the board as far under the water AT AN ANGLE as you can get it, feel the tension and as soon as you go up the wake begin to release the tension, once you are all the way up release completely and you will pop up. the better you get at it the higher you will get.

Maybe I can get the pic up now...this is my son in the pic....he calls me "the old fat man". 41, 215 lbs...

Can't get good res on the photo... I'll review some video I have of me though. Thanks, going out again Sunday to try again. (A five weeks ago I dislocated a shoulder in a crash. Got over tired and went "balls to the wall" off the wake.)

(Message edited by grampawakerider on February 19, 2004)

ah so you are the parent trying to ride. then it may be safe to assume you grew up water sking.
lesson number one forget how to waterski and then learn wakeboarding.
turn your body where your shoulders run parallel to the boat also, you can't ride it like a ski, if you do you won't improve.
you must ride a wakeboard with your heals and toes controling the diretion.
don't worry it can be done behind your boat.
i learned a front roll and a scarecrow behind a 16 foot WHAHOO.
Just practice your cut and poping off the wake.

Actually, the only other water sport I've tried is scuba diving. Sounds like I should just keep trying, but that I should try doing it the right way. And I'll get a good photo up if it kills me!

BTW- This is a father/son competition to land the first w2w. I think He's getting closer cuz he's doing some grabs. I told him that by this summer he will probably out do me. I started boarding in July 03 and he started in Nov 03.

Go gramps. I think you need to just edge all the up and though the wake. I have a I/O with no sac and we can do it. Oh yeah I'm older too.

I also have a bayliner(1850 with a 190 mercruiser)
I had no weight in it last summer and was also my first summer wakeboarding. W2W is possible, you just have 2 apply what people here are suggesting. I didn't think it was possible to do much more then that till I had an experienced rider behind my boat, he not only went w2w, he went way out into the flats. You could try shortening the rope 5-10 ft, then after you get the technique, lengthen it back out.

A couple of times I didnt even have the pylon up and was going w2w, just keep trying! But take it easy, your son only has one dad!
HAHA

Steve is 100% correct. It sounds like you are not edging all the way up. Hold your edge and don't release it until you are air born. HTH

i ride behind a 17.5 foot sea ray with no weight or even a tower. i can do W2W in 3 directions (I hate switch toeside) but anyway, just get used to your pop, use the tension of the rope and stand tall. I've only boarded behind a "real" boat once, an 04 SAN, and i was goin way out in the flatts because of the speed I'm used to generating. But for me, take a good cut, and stand tall with the handle low while on edge, and u'll be in the flatts in no time

Make a progressive cut towards the wake and when you hit the wake don't let up on you cut. Make sure when you hit the wake you stand tall so you can get the pop you need to clear it. The two most common mistake when trying to jump is (1). They cut progressively until they come to the wake and then let off (big no no) (2). They let their knees absorb the wake and you lose the pop. Also keep the handle at you hip at all times. Not sure where you live but if you are in Northern California i can take you out and give you some tips. I guarentee you clear the wake and learn a few more tricks.

Yeah like everyone is saying, just edge all the way through the wake. That was my mistake when I first learned to jump the wake. I did not edge all the way through. Also, try slowing the boat down to 18-20 mph just to see if the wake is any different/bigger because the boat I ride behind the wake is biggest at about 18-19 and anything 22 or faster the wake just goes about _______
Well not totally flat but just a lot smaller.
Also, shorten the rope. Thats what I did. I ride at 65 feet and when I was trying to learn w2w jumps I shortened to 55 ft. It's a lot easier and you can go a lot smoother since you don't need to edge so much to clear the wake, and the wake isn't as wide.

First- Gordon, my Bayliner is also an 1850 LX with 190hp. I put a monster tower on it. Otherwise, it seems unanimous. I think maybe I need to get used to the feel of the pop. A few times I felt like I was gonna get yanked into the air a mile out or so. I think I came off edge at that point or absorbed the pop with my knees. I'll take the rope down to 55' with handle too. BTW- I also switched boards from a Belmont DNA 136 to a Belmont DNA 141. 141 feels better under me. Thanks everyone for the tips...
Also Mike, I'm trying to get to San Antonio Lake this weekend, possibly Sunday. If Ican't get there I'll be at Lopez instead. For a recap...}get used to what the pop feels like!!!!

dude go for it....but last summer i rode behind a rinker with a fly high pole...we were only riding at about 16 mph....goodluck however it turns out

i was clearin the wake into the flats....not sure how high i was though......

gramps...
I am getting a Monster tower put on my boat here in the next couple of weeks... got any pics of your boat with tower? what year is your boat? mine is a 2000.

I will try to share weighting schemes with you once I can get my boat out this spring!

hey mike what area are you from in northern cali? far north?

Hey Mike...Same question from me too.

Hey Gordon,
Mine is a 2000 LX 1850 w/190hp Mercruiser. I have a few pics, I had to edit this one so I could post it here. Sorry the boards partially block the view of the tower. But the racks are from Monster Tower too. And the bimini which as you can see is folded up in the pic.

As far as weighting, it's purely experimental for me at this point, by using people as weights, I learned that too much weight in the back without counter weighting in the front is a bad idea. Takes waaaaaaaaaay too long to come down on plane or just to build up some speed. The flatter the boat is the mellower the wake is and the heavier the bigger. By trimming it up the wake almost doubles in size and gets really steep.

gramps-
I have the same problem as you have with puting weight in the boat. when riding, there is usually like 5-8 in my boat and a ruff weight of like 1200-1600lbs. this gets scary though. My boat is 20' w/a 350v8 and it is still hard to get a good wake. One if my friends suggested a fin. I might just try that? Trimming in it up even almost all the way does make a huge difference. I'll get my wake pics this coming summer.

Nice looking boat mark, mine is exactly the same. I just got it brand new this last fall, so it has very few hours. My tower is black though, the local dealer ordered it for someone else and when it came in the guy decided he didnt want it, so i got a deal on it!
Any ways, i have noticed the same thing with the weight. SO this year I already have one 700# fatsack that I am going to put in the ski locker, I want to get two fat buddies(250# each) to put in the back on either side of the engine, and maybe another for the bow, I am having a bow filler cushion made to fill in the walkway to the bow, so I can make a playpen for storage and a fatsack underneath. Also I invested in a 4 blade 18 pitch alumiinum prop to help maintain the lower speed. I know just going from the original 21 pitch a to a 19 pitch helped alot. I can't wait for the ice to clear off the river!

oh that is my boat with a homemade pylon

If I went to put another prop on my wife would kill me. When we got ours, the prop was a little bent so I was able to talk her into getting a stainless steel prop. It came with a black Skylon pole and wakeboard rack. I sold them off for $300 as a package. (I also helped install it for a case of beer more!) I only wish it wouldn't rain tommorow so I can get back out on my board. My brother wants to take out his 16ft outboard so it looks like surface trick practice

there are some good 4 blade props on ebay for 100$

hey Gramps,
I was reading this post and whenI saw your Pic I thought it looked like Lopez. Then I opened your profile and you are from here. Any way I think I have seen you there. Were you there when all those sail boats capsized? Actually I think I talked to you. I had the Blue Sanger.

Ok I will stop rambling, I just like meeting people who are passionate about this sport!

You bet Gary,
That was me. I thought it was nuts out there that day. The wind was dying down when you got there. I think thats what we talked about. There was also a Tige out on the water that day, but I think you were still at the docks. I try to get out every weekend, but it looks like the rain is gonna keep me down this week. Wife don't like the boat to get rainwater in it. Looks whose rambling now........it's the sport dude. Makes you ramble..ramble on!!

Here's a pic of some of the sailboats...I don't think you can see the capsized ones though.

yup that was the day!

That was a sad day for me as I was selling my boat and out for the test drive.

Let me know when you go out again. I would love to get a pull.

I have lead bars and a little bit of knowledge of weighting......

Dont be mad about the rain!!!!WE NEED IT!

San Antonio should be up, I hope!

Lopez pisses me off because its a crapshoot on the water being anygood.

Usually from Santa Maria we can get a good feel for how the water will be at Lopez. Even when we know it's gonna be bad we'll go anyways just because we got a crew together and set the time aside. I had planned on going fishing off the Patriot at Port San Luis Monday morning but that got cancelled due to not enough reservations. So now I'm fetching up a crew to go to Lopez tommorow instead. Yer selling the boat? Selling the lead too? I'd be interested in them if you are. We can hook up soon for a pull if you want to. Next Saturday we are going to San Antonio so we can be in the area for the Welcome premier at VS Marine in Atacadero that day. Can hook up then or probably two weeks after that.

I already sold her. Im down here at Vandenberg, and will be leaving soon. Yeah I can hook you up with th lead just make me an offer. 18, 25 lb bars.

I was gonna ask if you were leaving the area. I saw you're at Vandenberg in your profile. It was really a sad day then when your boat was "adopted". How many pounds of lead do you have? I'm hoping to put some in my ski locker and under the seats in the bow. Maybe under the back seats too, depends on what I can get. Geez, you just posted a few minutes ago. I've been driving my wife nutz spending about three hours a day at this site for the last few dayz. Mostly looking for tips and such.

you will drive her nuts! This place is a addicting. Email me at wildland1@hotmail.com

I will shoot you my Number and I can give you some pointers.

I have spent Every weekend since last year in one of our lakes. SO I know these spots well!

Hey guys I am located in Livermore(bay Area) about 15 minutes from the delta.

oh what I'd give to live by the Delta....or at least get a pull there. Just got back from Lopez a few minutes ago......4 hours, pure butter...sweet, back to the topic of this thread..I'm getting the feel for a good pop off the wake now, kinda like unlearning all your bad habits and starting new again. Thats ok though, landed all my jumps today and though I didn't go w2w it's wuz cuz I wuz relearning. Went 3/4 easy. Most the time and my son says I'm getting higher up too. I could tell that also since I felt I was in the air for days and everything seemed to slow down. The new sacks helped fill out the wake so it's thicker and a little taller. It was tall enough anyways. Slowed my driver down to 18-19 mph from 21-22 and that made me feel like I had more control too. Tried a lipslide 180 today. Made that just fine, but then I went for toeside jump while I was still switched and can you spell FACEPLANT? Knocked the wind right out of me. Thats what ya get for landing on the tip of the board!! Must go browse the rest of the site......

(Message edited by grampawakerider on February 23, 2004)

That sounds good mark. Coming over bad habits is really a hard thing to do. If you ever want a pull on the delta shoot me an email and i will be more then willing to take you and your son out. Let me know in adavance so i can check my schedule.

Robert-
I'm just now understanding your post or I'd have responded sooner. It seems to me that after my ride today that counter weighting is a big key for us in our i/o boats. I'd say weigh it all down, counterweight and then trim it up about 1/4 or a little more. I don't know your hull design, but try slowing down a mph or two. For me going down to 18-20 vastly improved my wake as opposed to 21-23mph. Wish I had my camera today. :-(

Mike - sounds great to me and my son (who is Mark also) would be stoked to hear it. This weekend coming up we're off to San Antonio so we will be in the area for the premier of Welcome in our area. (Atascadero, VS Marine @ 7:30pm.)

Anyone else around here going?

(Message edited by grampawakerider on February 23, 2004)

hey guys, i have A 98 BAYLINER CAPRI WITH 190 HORSE. how tall does your monster tower sit off the deck bottom of your boat. Was instalation easy. How did adding alot of weight change your wake and what worked best for you. Also i have a 21 pitch stainless stelleto but was wantign to go with some thing to plain out at slower speds and come out of the hole faster. How low can i go and does a four blade help over a three. Thanks guys

Hi Josh-

My Monster Tower is 7ft from the deck. It took me about 3 hours to install and I was taking my time. I was nervous about drilling into my boat. It was not difficult to do and the directions were fairly easy to understand. As far as weight goes, my boat is rated for 975 lbs and it seems if I weigh more than that I'm slow getting out of the hole. I have a 21p stilletto too. Changing the prop would help with that. Yesterday I went out and I put 700lbs of weights plus 800lbs of people and pulling a rider. It was slow out of the hole and I had trouble keeping a good wake. Again, I think a lower pitch prop would have helped. However, last week, I had the same 700lbs but only 450lbs in passengers and pulling a rider. Setup like that I had a fat rampy wake and it was easy to keep. In that setp I had 430lbs in the bow, 85lbs in the rear seats and 85lbs on the floor in front of the motor cover. Also trimming up about 1/4 helps alot. I am adding a perfect pass this spring cuz I'm the only driver who can set a good wake. I'm still new to this, but I'm glad to share any info I can get on it.

And back to the w2w...my son did it yesterday using the tips I got from here for myself!! I've got the technique figured out, it's just a mental block for me to just load up and launch. Working on surface stuff till I can clear my head and wipe out enough times to trust I won't throw the shoulder out again. But congrats to my son, Mark, who made it first.

Great to Hear! Im Glad some one is having fun out there.

Did Lopez come up any?

I have a bayliner and it sucks! I can't do a wake to wake jump on it, I have to wait till I go to camp where they have a joystick pylon. and I only get to go around this really tiny lake once a day except on sundays when I go. The boat I have isn't weighed down, no tower and now wait and my parents arn't going to pay for any of that any time soon and I can't spend money on it because I'm saving for wakeboard camp! It sucks, at least you have a tower. you can stick the wake to wake if you try long enough, it took me over a year to stick mine, and its still hard.

Yo Gary!
Lopez came up about 2-3 feet. At least the water is covering half of the area that was dry on the right side of the bridge just before the entrance. As usual it has been a crap shoot the last couple weekends, best water coming between 8:30 and 11:00. Planning on hitting San Antonio in a couple weeks. Gotta check with the boss to see that it's ok.

(Message edited by grampawakerider on March 07, 2004)

Hi Rebecca,
Don't fret. I had riders doing w2w 3's behind my boat when I had a pylon and no weight and I was barely able to land a one wake jump. And also remember that there are alot of kids out there who don't even get the opportunities that you get. (Like not even having a boat in the family.) Wakeboarding camp is a great goal to achieve too. I wish when I were young that my parents would have been liberal enough to let me do something like that!!

Bayliner? Humph........gonna try riding behind my brothers 16ft 110hp outboard Crestliner on Sunday. Betcha I make w2w!! Thats no tower, pylon, weights or any of that neat stuff.

(Message edited by grampawakerider on March 10, 2004)