Toe 5 help... going out the front!

First off I have to say my Protec helmet has saved me from about 10 concussions the past two days. But I'm looking for some pointers on hitting fs toe 5's. I have solid hs fs 3's, ts fs 1's, do NOT have toe 3's down, but I'm looking to hit this big trick as I have about 2 days of riding left for the season.

I have tried it about 25 - 30 times, all on film (can't post it up with this computer or I would), and my rotation looks pretty good until after the pass on the last 180. I am getting pulled out the front and over my toes on about 75 percent of my attempts. The other small percentage I have actually gotten extremely close to sticking it, one time actually riding out but losing it seconds after. (if i hadn't gotten this close I would have stopped trying them after about 5 tries )

One other thing i noticed is when I try and bring my knees up I tend to go out the front, and when I spin in a tall position (looks bad IMO) I get closer to hitting it.

Any tips are greatly appreciated - I've never been so anxious to hit a trick before and want it before I have to hang up the board.

Thanks.

here's a quick sequence i captured from film... this would be an extreme example of me going out the front

.

You're starting your first 180 early. You really want to focus on getting off the wake clean. Pop it big, then start the slow spin.

You're also breaking at the hips when you take off. When I do them I pull my knees up to me, rather than leaning down toward the board. Keep your chest up all the way through the rotation.

I agree with Evan. The third pic is pretty clear (to me) that your getting pulled over the front from initiating the spin too soon off the wake. How are your TS FS 180's, got any TS3's in the bag? I would also venture a bet that your a bit front foot heavy coming in toeside...in fact in that first pic it looks like your trying to "step" off the wake and initiate the spin.

Looks like your pretty close dude, nail that ••••

Yeah looks too early.

Your legs are dropping too. If your body changes a lot during the spin, so will the spin.

agreed. Waiting longer to initiate the spin should help you keep your axis and help you go bigger to buy more time. No need to rush it.

Once you get it, it's the easiest trick ever. I've never learned a new trick, and stomped it consistently like the TS 5.

Alright, thanks so much guys. It all makes perfect sense. And Evan, the breaking at the hips thing is exactly what I've been trying to pinpoint myself in my head and correct but have failed to do so. Appreciate the tips.

One more question about my edge into the wake. I assume it should be somewhat progressive then flattening off at the trough- is this correct?

Also, I normally ride and throw all my tricks at 24 mph and 75 feet, but have been working on the 5 at 23 and 70 ft. Does this seem appropriate?

(Message edited by wakeslife on August 28, 2009)

Yeah, sometimes its easier to learn new tricks with a narrower wake at a slower speed, then when you get it you can always let the line back out.
Everyone does every trick differently, but with the 5 I would suggest to start out with a fast cut and let off to a slower cut about 10 feet from the wake. If you watch Harley Clifford spin toeside, he does an extreme example of this. Cutting hard at the beginning will let you carry over your speed, while flattening off will allow you to stand tall at the wake and get better pop. Again, everyone does it differently but this is how I do mine and how I would teach it.

dude mayb you should just like boss up and keep trying. busted eardrums, broken bindings, strained knees and back problems arnt an excuse. and like 7 concussions shouldn't make a difference either.
your an animal.

I am sure Austin has more experience teaching than I do. I would try his way and try a more progressive edge...different strokes for different folks.

The only reason I suggest progressive is that if your leaving early, flattening off may make it worse. If you take a shorter approach where you really gotta put some stank on the cut to make it over...its really going to force you to wait on initiating the trick.

Either way keep us posted and let us know how it goes.

Also, how are your TS 180's and 3's? The TS three REALLY forces you to wait on the initiation.

On toe and heel fives I use the same approach. Long mellow cuts without much hard edge at all. It's not a progressive edge like a backroll and not a trip-flip edge like a tantrum or crow. Just a smooth roll into the wake. I focus on not building too much line tension and having good handle position on takeoff. Close to your hip and in control. If you pop and can't stop your rotation because you didn't pop right, then you're starting too early. You should be able to pop, know you got it good, then start your spin. Keep that chest up and there should be nothing to it. You should come right around.

p.s.
the wake looks really nice. im so jealous of your stock setup.