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Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-19-2017, 10:28 AM Reply   
Well I have now struck out on two X-stars between 2008 and 2010. I have always been a Mastercraft guy but now I am starting to look at other options. I have posted a couple of threads but I can't seem to find the right fit. We have expanded our budget and search to start looking at used G's. Problem is I have been out of the scene for a while. I used to ride behind early 2000 Super Airs all the time but I have just been riding behind our 2003 X-2 for the last handful of years.

I have started to do some research on G's but I would I like to know what the must haves are for my search and what year is best or better? Looking at 2013 to 2014 I would assume. Budget 80 to 90K.

Thanks, Mike
Old     (laptom)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-19-2017, 10:45 AM Reply   
Skip the 2013 if it is a non super charged version. The 2014 non-sc received the 2:1 gearbox a is smoother, more efficiently and more powerful. Otherwise not a lot of differences till 2016.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-19-2017, 11:27 AM Reply   
I have heard some of the earlier year models have a bigger wakeboard wake. From my understanding they made some slight changes to make the surf wake better thus sacrificing the wakeboard wake. Now don't get me wrong I'm 100% sure any g23 wake is way more than enough. But if you want the absolute biggest wakeboard wake on the planet, find out which model JD Webb is running, rumor has it's the biggest wake on the planet.
Old     (Bevostein)      Join Date: Oct 2015       01-19-2017, 12:16 PM Reply   
Same hull 2013-2015. Hull was updated in 2016 to reduce splash over the bow in rough water and more closely integrate the back end with the NSS system.

Laptom is right on 2013 year. Skip it unless you get the 550 or are certain you will never run additional ballast weight or large crews. 409 engine was offered during some years. Avoid it as well, even in years with the 2:1 ratio.

If you end up with a 2013 make sure the prop shaft was replaced or have dealer replace under warranty before sale is finalized. They had a batch of shafts that had shearing issues. Some say it was just on the 550s but I'm not certain of that.

You occasionally see a used 2013 without the NSS system since that was an add-on introduced after the boat hit the market. Obviously you would want to avoid those or price accordingly for adding NSS

New line of direct injection engines were introduced in 2016 IIRC.

Those are the big differences that come to mind
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-19-2017, 12:18 PM Reply   
If you haven't rode behind one, I don't think you under stand how big it really is in stock form. Above stock is just crazy
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       01-19-2017, 3:28 PM Reply   
^^^that
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-08-2017, 7:27 AM Reply   
Can anyone tell me how tall the boat is on the trailer with the tower folded down? I am having my garage modified but it doesn't look like I am going to be able to up high enough to fit the boat with the tower up without some major reconstruction which I would rather avoid. Thanks, Mike
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       02-08-2017, 11:16 AM Reply   
I have a 16 Supra SA right in your price range for sale. It competes with both these boats in wake and surf. You can get new financing on it and will save you hundreds on monthly payments.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-08-2017, 12:39 PM Reply   
Mike- with tower down, I just barely get my G23 in an 8'6" tall door. It was way too close for comfort. I would say that you would want a 9' door, if you will be regularly going in and out.....
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-08-2017, 12:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
I have heard some of the earlier year models have a bigger wakeboard wake. From my understanding they made some slight changes to make the surf wake better thus sacrificing the wakeboard wake. Now don't get me wrong I'm 100% sure any g23 wake is way more than enough. But if you want the absolute biggest wakeboard wake on the planet, find out which model JD Webb is running, rumor has it's the biggest wake on the planet.

No difference in wakeboard wake. I consistently ride a 2013, and a 2016, back to back, and can't tell any difference. The hull changes for surf were not made to a portion of the running surface that is in the water at wakeboard speeds.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-08-2017, 12:50 PM Reply   
Perfect Eric!! That is the info I needed thanks again. Originally we were looking at 2014s but now are leaning towards biting the bullet and getting a 16. Any input on this???
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-08-2017, 1:59 PM Reply   
Mike- A close friend has a '13, and I had the '16 (I have a '17 now). Personally, after having the '16, I definitely wouldn't want a 13-15. However, the biggest reason for that is- we run a very extended season. The bow spray on the 13-15 can get a bit uncomfortable when the water is only 50-60 degrees splashing in to the boat. During the hotter summer months, it doesn't bother me at all. Both generations have good surf waves, but the 16-17 is definitely a little cleaner, and quite a bit more powerful on just stock ballast. That said, I do still really like the wave on the 13-15.

The audio systems are also WAY better on the 16-17.

Overall, I wouldn't hesitate on a 13-15, but I would want it to be drastically cheaper than a '16. The changes they made really make a great boat just that much better. I would say, that if you are looking to stay within a certain budget, I would try to find a low option 2016, and then add stuff as the budget allows in future years. Even the base engine is fine with the 2:1 gearbox (unless you were planning to wakeboard with HUGE amounts of extra ballast). If it has the H6, you will be fine for any scenario.
Old     (cbarguy1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       02-08-2017, 3:56 PM Reply   
Just curious, what happened when you were shopping for xstars? Nothing good on the market, people asking for too much money or just decided to move up to a G?
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-09-2017, 2:28 PM Reply   
MLO,
I was close to deals on two X-stars and they fell through. They were both out of state, one got sold out from underneath me and the other we could not come to an agreement. The more my wife and I talked about it, we decided we didn't want to buy a boat that was already 7 years old (I only wanted the old X-Star hull). We started looking at G's and now have decided with our family situation it is better to up the budget and buy a boat we can have for the next 7-10 years. I would still entertain an X-Star if the right deal showed up (Pointing at you Phatboy) but for now we are looking at G's.

Eric,
How much does it cost to upgrade each year? Are you trading it in? I hope I am not being too personal, just intrigued.

Thanks, Mike
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       02-09-2017, 10:54 PM Reply   
Since we're talking about G's, I'll post a pic of one. Just because.
Attached Images
 
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-10-2017, 4:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPMike0663 View Post

Eric,
How much does it cost to upgrade each year? Are you trading it in? I hope I am not being too personal, just intrigued.

Thanks, Mike
It costs me next to nothing. Usually just the amount that the prices increased on the boat. (About $4300.00 this year)

The same person buys my 1 year old boat every year, and the dealer gives me an incredible discount on the new boats, because they know they will sell one every year.

My buyer likes the custom stuff I do to the boats (LEDs, stereo upgrades, bigger heater, RGB underwater lights, etc.). Also, He owns a lake resort, so the depreciation hit is not as big of a deal when it's a business expense. I am able to sell it to him at a good average used value, and still in perfect condition.

Pure luck, really. I'm sure it will stop working at some point, but the last 5 years have worked great! I just have to stick to MasterCraft or Nautique, and 23'........ Which is fine. I'm not really that interested in other brands or sizes.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-10-2017, 7:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
It costs me next to nothing. Usually just the amount that the prices increased on the boat. (About $4300.00 this year)

The same person buys my 1 year old boat every year, and the dealer gives me an incredible discount on the new boats, because they know they will sell one every year.

My buyer likes the custom stuff I do to the boats (LEDs, stereo upgrades, bigger heater, RGB underwater lights, etc.). Also, He owns a lake resort, so the depreciation hit is not as big of a deal when it's a business expense. I am able to sell it to him at a good average used value, and still in perfect condition.

Pure luck, really. I'm sure it will stop working at some point, but the last 5 years have worked great! I just have to stick to MasterCraft or Nautique, and 23'........ Which is fine. I'm not really that interested in other brands or sizes.
that is awesome! If someone wants to make this deal I will buy new every year no problem. Thanks again for all your input. I am getting my garage ready, and my hydrohoist adjusted to fit the larger boat. Then we will see if I can find the right fit. If not I may wait until the fall. Thanks again, Mike
Old     (cbarguy1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       02-10-2017, 2:00 PM Reply   
Mike,

Thanks for the insights. I ask because I have a gen2 x* and am happy to hear that a few others still like them too. Seems like they have fallen out of favor now that the market is mostly surfing.

And since we're posting pictures for no good reason here's one. Show us your new beast when you get it.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by cbarguy1; 02-10-2017 at 2:04 PM.
Old     (YYCBoarder)      Join Date: Apr 2013       02-10-2017, 2:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbarguy1 View Post
Mike,

Thanks for the insights. I ask because I have a gen2 x* and am happy to hear that a few others still like them too. Seems like they have fallen out of favor now that the market is mostly surfing.

And since we're posting pictures for no good reason here's one. Show us your new beast when you get it.
Great looking boat! I love wake on the gen2 xstar.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-10-2017, 2:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbarguy1 View Post
Mike,

Thanks for the insights. I ask because I have a gen2 x* and am happy to hear that a few others still like them too. Seems like they have fallen out of favor now that the market is mostly surfing.

And since we're posting pictures for no good reason here's one. Show us your new beast when you get it.
Your boat looks exactly like PhatBoy's. He is a member here and my best friend. I keep trying to get him to sell me his boat but he won't budge. I am not a surfer and if MC would have kept that hull that is what I would be looking for. But from my understanding the G23 now has the best wake of current boats.
Old     (cbarguy1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       02-10-2017, 2:31 PM Reply   
Small world. I'm in WA state and don't see a lot of g2*s, especially the anniversary models. I think the later models are limited because they were sold during the great recession years (2008-2011).

Aside from the 40th I think this is my favorite. The PWTs are nice too.

Sorry for the thread jack. I miss summer.
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Last edited by cbarguy1; 02-10-2017 at 2:39 PM.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-10-2017, 7:14 PM Reply   
You can hi-jack if you get someone to sell me one of these boats at a good price.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-11-2017, 4:56 PM Reply   
Crazy, we went to the boat show and were surprised how big the G21 was on the inside. We thought it would be the same as our X-2 but it felt way bigger. We are now leaning towards that boat. We are going to demo both the G21 and G23 in the near future.

But for how:

School me on G21.

Thanks, Mike
Old     (Ttime41)      Join Date: Nov 2011       03-12-2017, 8:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPMike0663 View Post
Your boat looks exactly like PhatBoy's. He is a member here and my best friend. I keep trying to get him to sell me his boat but he won't budge. I am not a surfer and if MC would have kept that hull that is what I would be looking for. But from my understanding the G23 now has the best wake of current boats.
Only if you buy into hype. As someone who only wakeboards, there are boats from other brands that I would way rather ride behind.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-12-2017, 8:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttime41 View Post
Only if you buy into hype. As someone who only wakeboards, there are boats from other brands that I would way rather ride behind.
Are you joking? The g23 is THE best wake money can buy.

If you were complaining about the g21 I would understand but...

What in the hell other boat would you ride over a g23
Old     (Ttime41)      Join Date: Nov 2011       03-12-2017, 11:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
Are you joking? The g23 is THE best wake money can buy.

If you were complaining about the g21 I would understand but...

What in the hell other boat would you ride over a g23
Comparing stock ballast to stock ballast against the G23:

Supra SA- Same size, better shape

Malibu M235- Just plain bigger

Last edited by Ttime41; 03-12-2017 at 11:14 AM. Reason: .
Old     (CPanner)      Join Date: May 2015       03-12-2017, 11:49 AM Reply   
Supra SA- stock to stock I'd argue the SA is smaller. Better shape is an opinion.

Malibu M235 - only way you could say it's bigger is when you include plug and play, in that case you're not really making a fair comparison. You can add bags to a G23 and it will be significantly better than an M235.

Wakeboard boat of the year 4x in a row, on a riders poll. Can't really call that hype. There may be boats that YOU would rather ride behind but the fact of the matter is the G23 is the best wakeboard boat currently on the market.
Old     (Ttime41)      Join Date: Nov 2011       03-12-2017, 12:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanner View Post
Supra SA- stock to stock I'd argue the SA is smaller. Better shape is an opinion.

Malibu M235 - only way you could say it's bigger is when you include plug and play, in that case you're not really making a fair comparison. You can add bags to a G23 and it will be significantly better than an M235.

Wakeboard boat of the year 4x in a row, on a riders poll. Can't really call that hype. There may be boats that YOU would rather ride behind but the fact of the matter is the G23 is the best wakeboard boat currently on the market.
Arguing that the SA wake is smaller is splitting hairs. The fact is that it is a huge, clean wake that actually has some shape to it (not just a huge roller like the G). I won't even get into how much better that boat drives and turns than the G.

The only reason the M doesn't have the reputation as the biggest wake in the industry is because it was never marketed to riders, and because people look at the MSRP and assume that it is unattainable. Not to mention, there are a whole lot less of them, so there isn't a lot of first hand experience out there. Adding PnP bags to the M is as easy as plugging them in and pressing a button. Adding bags to a G requires you to fill bags with pumps that have to be thrown over the side of the boat. I wouldn't really consider that a fair comparison either.

WW polls are built on hype. How many people do you think voted that had experience with all or most of the industry's top wake boats? I would guess very few.

I realize this opinion isn't going to be popular here on WW. If you would have asked me what I thought was the best wakeboard boat in 13, 14 and '15 I would have agreed that it was the G. Now, I think that enough time has passed that other companies have taken that model of the ultra heavy, deep wake boat and taken it a step further. Just an honest opinion from someone who is lucky enough to have experience with all 3 of the boats mentioned.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-12-2017, 1:23 PM Reply   
Please get back on track. Looking at the difference between the g21 and g23. Maybe I am a snob but it is going to be one of those two boats. My lake is pretty small and we have a home on the water so I don't need some of the extras of the bigger boat. I would just like opinions on wake, comfort, drivability and maybe resale value of these two boats. If I go 21 there is a chance I will go new. Thanks again, Mike
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-12-2017, 1:42 PM Reply   
Just a giant roller? Has no shape? What are you talking about... unless you want a wake that big that's gonna shoot you straight up then by all means please go buy an x star. And the new 24 mxz is the superior wakeboard boat in the malibu line.

You literally cannot touch the volume behind the wake of the G. No other boat comes close.

The g21 is too sensitive and steep to be truly great wakeboard boat. I would pass and stick to g23's unless you wanted to look at some other boats in the 21.5 size range. There other boats in that class that offer similar size and 90% performance with none of the wake negatives that the g21 has

Last edited by simplej; 03-12-2017 at 1:45 PM.
Old     (CPanner)      Join Date: May 2015       03-12-2017, 1:59 PM Reply   
I think we can agree that Ttime41 is out to lunch here. As far as G21 vs G23 goes, I own a G21, I actually prefer the steeper wake and don't find it to be nearly all that sensitive. That being said my next boat will be a G23.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-12-2017, 2:26 PM Reply   
I have a ton of trouble setting up the 21. I find that they like to crab and wash. The prop rotation also really rolls the boat over and they are touchy to weight both front to back and side to side. What engine/prop are you running?

The wake is enormous though, and steep. To me, too steep once we're talking a 3 foot wall but that's all preference. Again the most volume in the class

I just think that in that size range you'd be better off in the equivalent Malibu/axis product, maybe even gs22, where the wakes are the same size as the G but with less volume and greater consistency.

Any of these boats will blow your x2 out of the water. The wake on that boat is mediocre at best, even in it's class


Edit: if your x2 is the 205v hull not the p-fork hull you may actually appreciate the g21 wake of you're into the more "old school" type wakes

Last edited by simplej; 03-12-2017 at 2:29 PM.
Old     (beleza)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-12-2017, 3:44 PM Reply   
Ttime 41 may just prefer different wakes than the rest of us. No big deal. As for me, I prefer the stock G23 wake over any other stock wake out there. It is scary massive. I can't imagine what it would be like after adding a few thousand pounds of ballast. I spent all of last season behind a G23 and it was amazing in all areas, including surf. I've never been behind a G21 but I'm sure it's pretty similar. I don't think you will be disappointed.
Old     (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       03-12-2017, 8:22 PM Reply   
G21 wake is great. You can adjust the side to side wake easily from the dash. The front to back is very flexible.
Attached Images
 
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-12-2017, 11:26 PM Reply   
Very excited to ride these two wakes. We have over 3k in weight in the X-2 (orginal Xstar hull) and I am amazed that the G is going to have a much larger wake stock. That is a major selling point for me. I now have little kids and would rather not have the weight all over the place in the boat. I am still a relatively advanced rider with a couple mobes so I want a higher profile wake that is easy. I am excited to learn that is the case with these new boats
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-12-2017, 11:47 PM Reply   
TBH, I grew up riding a 04-13 x-star with 3000-4000 pounds of ballast. A buddy of mine just got a G and I haven't been behind it because it was cold. But the stock wake just looked meh to me from the boat. Not what I was expecting at all.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-13-2017, 3:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBunch View Post
G21 wake is great. You can adjust the side to side wake easily from the dash. The front to back is very flexible.
What model year considering I have had the complete opposite experience? Control it from the dash? How?

As soon as you drop the NCRS, even 1 click, on the 21 the wake gets funky. I'd say they're as touchy as an old 230, maybe you nautique boys are just used to it.

I also find I have to counter weight them 2:1 to get them level since the prop throws the 21 over so damn far.
Old     (granddaddy53)      Join Date: Dec 2013       03-13-2017, 5:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPMike0663 View Post
Well I have now struck out on two X-stars between 2008 and 2010. I have always been a Mastercraft guy but now I am starting to look at other options. I have posted a couple of threads but I can't seem to find the right fit. We have expanded our budget and search to start looking at used G's. Problem is I have been out of the scene for a while. I used to ride behind early 2000 Super Airs all the time but I have just been riding behind our 2003 X-2 for the last handful of years.

I have started to do some research on G's but I would I like to know what the must haves are for my search and what year is best or better? Looking at 2013 to 2014 I would assume. Budget 80 to 90K.

Thanks, Mike
Unless your putting 8 or more in boat plus full sacs you don't have to worry about tranny ratios so 13 and 14 is also good. I know of a 13 with leaking sacs and almost 1300 hours that a riding/surfing buddy had one repossessed and even with the somewhat dirty interior this boat was more fun than a barrel of monkeys!!! You really can't go wrong and unless your looking for impeccable you don't need 80000 for a heavily used 23 that still will fulfill your needs. I spent 9 months or more 4 weekends a month last year in that 2013 and I never had so much fun! Great wake, great wave, wake is awesome for less seasoned riders and will send you even empty of water. BEST wave transfers in the industry with no comparison to other boats , 2013 NSS 3.5-3.75 seconds from Pressing switch button to full wave formation on other side for transfers with or without counter steering into the new wave!!!!! Best transfers in the industry

Last edited by granddaddy53; 03-13-2017 at 5:38 AM.
Old     (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       03-13-2017, 6:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
What model year considering I have had the complete opposite experience? Control it from the dash? How?



As soon as you drop the NCRS, even 1 click, on the 21 the wake gets funky. I'd say they're as touchy as an old 230, maybe you nautique boys are just used to it.



I also find I have to counter weight them 2:1 to get them level since the prop throws the 21 over so damn far.


The 16's and up have a ballast shift function. You can move 50lbs a time to balance weight. The only time this is an issue is if you have just a driver in the boat. I keep a bit of lead in the port rear locker for when it is just me and 1 rider.

I would say you just ride Malibu or Mastercraft to much. I came from a Supra and the setup of this boat is much simpler. No bags any where 3 lead wake bags in the biggest locker in the rear. If your talking surf it's not an easy setup but boarding is very easy.

I can move the ncrs to any position and it just changes the shape.

Mike I bought the boat because the stock wake is by far my favorite even over the 23. The 23 has more potential with more weight if that is what your going to do. The 21 will really on take 1500 over stock before it gets troublesome.
Old     (CPanner)      Join Date: May 2015       03-13-2017, 6:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
What model year considering I have had the complete opposite experience? Control it from the dash? How?

As soon as you drop the NCRS, even 1 click, on the 21 the wake gets funky. I'd say they're as touchy as an old 230, maybe you nautique boys are just used to it.

I also find I have to counter weight them 2:1 to get them level since the prop throws the 21 over so damn far.
Model year won't matter for the G21 since the hull hasn't changed. I've got 200lbs of lead and some extra stereo equipment under the observers seat to counteract the prop torque.

Not sure why you have so many issues. It's literally the exact same wakeboard running surface as all current G series boats just with 1.5 feet removed (wakesurf running surface is different)

I regulary ride behind my G21 and my buddies G23, I'd consider my self an intermediate/advanced rider, the only difference I notice is the G21 wake is slightly more abrupt, which I like.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-13-2017, 8:25 AM Reply   
Yea probably spoiled by how unflappable the axis wake is regardless of how the boat is weighted or the conditions on the lake. I spend about 50 hours a year on the g21 though so I am quite familiar with how it runs

Year matters due to gyro's and powertrains. NCRS 5 or 4 is Fine, just super steep, drop below 4 and it crumbles and crabs over even more. Too much weight in the main cabin and you get a big gnarly 230 like lip

What prop are you running? The thing will literally throw itself over with the 18x18 or whatever it is that my neighbor runs. Need 2 people to counter the driver, I'll see if I can find pics

Anyways. This if why I would go 23 over 21

Edit: video found. Notice the general "strangeness" of the wake. 5 people in the boat. 1 driver 1 center, observer side. 22 mph and NCRS 4



Im all ears if you have reccomendations on cleaning it up, not that it has a huge impact, just a bit frustrating when you have more crowds. Looks just like a 230 wake to me

Again, great boot tons of volume, awesome wake not bashing it just stating why I would go with he bigger boat

Last edited by simplej; 03-13-2017 at 8:31 AM.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-13-2017, 5:23 PM Reply   
I don't even understand the comparison your problems with the g21. Generally the bigger the boat is going to require more weight to create the same wake...i.e. the g23 will require more weight then g21 to create the same size wake. And the by product of creating the wake with weight is it being more vertical.

My friend had a 230 and this was certainly true in comparison to my 210.

Could you simply need a bit more weight in the back? You may be weighting a bit too evenly. It may raise the bow a bit but probably not much.

So my friend sold his 230 and has an axis...And yes it is "unflappable" but it is because it has more bow rise and generally runs with more weight in the back. Especially with the wedge. Axis knows this about there "a" boats and even advertises the "t" to be less bow rise...

I am selling my 210 (2008 team edtion, high hours, good price, shameless plug) and i am getting a g21...So I will let you know down the road in a month or so how it compares both with the 210, 230 and a22. I want big wake and low bow rise, and I like it pretty vertical. I am guessing I will get exactly what I want. And I am guessing with all the damn adjustments possible with water, and settings I can simulate whatever.

Prop torque: yeah as the props get bigger the prop torque increases. This is going to be same on all boats regardless of mfgr.

There is an xstar on my lake and it has great wake, but again he weights the holy hell out of it, and it runs thru the water with its nose out up like a snotty ugly girlfriend. whatever. And since i am ranting, the axis line has too wide a wake for my liking.

beat me up...who cares...
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-13-2017, 5:58 PM Reply   
I think you've got a few things backwards but...
Nor am I trying to sell OP on an axis. If your buddy's axis runs nose up he's running too much weight in the back with wedge, this will also widen the wake a loooot. Needs another 300+lbs in the bow. Try that next time and let us know how it goes.


The g21 needs bow weight not rear weight. It's just sensitive in my experience. The wake is like the 230 in a lot of ways.
The g23 has all the performance and none of the drawbacks. No crabbing, no washing, no sensitivity, "just right" shape, usable NCRS etc etc

But like I said for the OP's purposes he may like the 21 more if he enjoys a heavy 205v. 23 wake is more like a pumped up gen 2 xstar hull with more volume
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-13-2017, 6:30 PM Reply   
You are the first guy since the g21 came out that says it is like the 230...the first guy...virtually every one says the same thing...which is same wake as g23 except more vertical...maybe YOU got things backwards...

i will get my g21 and let you know how it compares to 210, 230, and a22...

p.s. you are probably right about my friend weighing his axis too much in the back...but that does not change my point at all.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-13-2017, 6:57 PM Reply   
Your point is that you just bought one so you're upset I'm pointing out that oh no- it Has flaws? Who knew. Displacement over weight every time...

Either way I've put I like 100 hours on that boat. 30/40 of which probably behind the wheel. Boats a 2015. But that's fine. Let us know when you take it out. You'll love it. Not many boats capable of putting out a wake with so much volume
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-13-2017, 7:13 PM Reply   
I can tell you...i am SUPER NOT - DOUBLE NOT - a nautique fan boy...but it flipping better be significantly better than my 2008 210...or i am going to flame g21 like the world has never seen.

IT FLIPPING BETTER NOT BE WASHY....

P.S. I did not buy it new...not that rich...
Old     (kenv)      Join Date: May 2002       03-13-2017, 7:41 PM Reply   
I've got a '15 G21 and love the boat and the wake. As mentioned above...when surfing...not wakeboarding...if I knock NCRS from 5 to 4....my wave kinda goes to crap. So I would call that pretty sensitive. As far as wakeboarding wake, I'm no pro but I couldn't ask for a better shape. That being said...I LOVE my G21...kids and family love driving it and it is the most comfortable boat I've owned. I also have lakefront access, so I don't need the more room that a G23 would bring....so i'm happy with the 21. Most importantly...what other boat can you cruise over to party cove in.....throw out the floats and crank...."Ain't nutin' but a G Thing Ba-bee".......LOL
Old     (CPanner)      Join Date: May 2015       03-14-2017, 6:31 AM Reply   
Okay, so we've got multiple people in this thread that don't think the G21 has any of the drawbacks that SimpleJ continues to mention. Pretty sure you're not setting that boat up right or there's some other issue with it. In the 300+ hours I've put on my G21 it has never crabbed, washed, or been overly sensitive.

I'm going to repeat this again, it has the exact same running surface as the G23. Same shape, same running gear, same gear ratio, same prop, same everything. The only difference is the 1.5 feet that it's shorter, and a lot of that is from the bow which again doesn't affect the running surface. If you find it more sensitive than a G23 it's a user issue, not a boat issue.
Old     (WheelerWake)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-14-2017, 8:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanner View Post
Okay, so we've got multiple people in this thread that don't think the G21 has any of the drawbacks that SimpleJ continues to mention. Pretty sure you're not setting that boat up right or there's some other issue with it. In the 300+ hours I've put on my G21 it has never crabbed, washed, or been overly sensitive.

I'm going to repeat this again, it has the exact same running surface as the G23. Same shape, same running gear, same gear ratio, same prop, same everything. The only difference is the 1.5 feet that it's shorter, and a lot of that is from the bow which again doesn't affect the running surface. If you find it more sensitive than a G23 it's a user issue, not a boat issue.
Who appointed you spokesman, with the ability to decide whose experiences are valid and whose are not?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-14-2017, 8:41 AM Reply   
G21 owners in attack mode because the 23 is better, and it should be considering the cost and size.. And for the 500th time I think it's an awesome wake, it just doesn't stack up to the 23. The 23 is nearly without flaw in terms of wake performance, while the 21 has drawbacks.

1.5 feet just from the bow?
Assuming that is true, if the whole 1.5 feet is fore of the midline that can make huge changes to the wake, ballast distribution, leverage point for the weight, weight of the bow itself. 200 lbs stacked in very nose goes farther than a walk way sack for example. All of this impacts what portion of the running surface is in the lake. Especially considering the G has a bow tank more than it is a belly tank. Oh and that extra 400 lbs up front.


Anyways what do I know. It's not like I've spent 100+ hours on one. Apparently with stock ballast and a few people I don't know to set it up properly \_(ツ)_/
Old     (YYCBoarder)      Join Date: Apr 2013       03-14-2017, 9:28 AM Reply   
I don't know if I would agree that the G23 is better than the G21 - it's just different. As mentioned several times it is more vertical than the G23 (pre-2016) but some prefer that. The hull change in 2016 notched the rear part of the hull for NSS which sinks the back a bit more and makes the wake more vertical.

They're both great wakes......and the IMO the gen2 xstar is just as good (or maybe better).

I haven't spent a ton of time on a 21 but it didn't seem particularly sensitive. One of the best things about those hulls is that they're easy to set up - just run equal weight in all bags and add a few 150-200 lbs port side to counter the the prop rotation (for both boats).
Old     (CPanner)      Join Date: May 2015       03-14-2017, 9:57 AM Reply   
I'm not disputing that the G23 isn't a better boat. I already stated it will be my next boat. All I'm saying is that if you are experiencing the sensitivity issues that not one other person in this thread that owns or has ridden behind a G21 has experienced, well then maybe it's a user issue and not a boat issue.

Done with this thread. Buy a G21, or a G23, or really any of the current monster wake boats and you'll be happy.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-30-2017, 7:02 AM Reply   
Ok...remember this thread? On 3.13.17 I promised to give an honest review of the wake of my 2014 g21 compared to 2015 a22, 2008 210, and 2010 230.

Here it goes. But sorry I have to - since I am in the mood - give more info than just the wake.

I was very nervous about the whole conversion, and actually lost some friends on the boat transition...but that is another story.

My G21, already had the propeller replaced due to propeller shear, and falling off. No it is not a rumor, so nautique fan boys can quit denying it. I have the paperwork showing old owner paid labor to replace, and the bastards at nautique which know damn well is a known issue only pay for parts. So with my luck knowing I would be the first boat to break two shafts have opted to keep the trolling motor in the boat that came with it. Of course you know the boat has tons of storage so it fits perfectly in space under loveseat.

And I did not want to replace my lift...which is a 5,000 capacity shoremaster cantilever. Shoremaster has never let me down. I added cradle sets in front in back so there are 2 sets in each of front and back. It works perfectly. I think the bonus of cantilever is that the rack is held up by front and rear i beam and not held up by just cables. So I would not recommend to everyone, but 5,000 shoremaster cantilver, can hold 5,200 dry weight boat, with a 409, with full tank of gas, and 4 men in the boat. I will just keep an eye on the cable and replace as needed. I don't have the baby size winch that comes with shoremaster, i have the big ao smith motor, with worm gear winch, and 5/16 cable.

Driveability/maneurability...The 210 was a sports car. This thing is more like driving a SUV. So fun to drive factor definitely goes down. It is not like you can't turn sharply but you gotta turn the wheel more. Kind of a bummer, cause like people who own a decent cornering car, when lake was empty and boat was not full of ballast it is fun to burn some gas, and do some power turns, and such.

Fit and finish...pretty much what you would expect...Pretty boat, but of course they give 0 thought to maintenance. Where they put the high pressure fuel filter (fcc) is ridiculous, so former owner only changed the low pressure easy to get to one. Winterizing looks to be a pain. If you don't do your own work then you can pretty much count on your dealer only doing half a job, and not telling you...Like a doubt the change the impeller half the time...Yeah whatever, I know you don't believe me...I would love to share thoughts on someone that has a g21 that does their own work.

The stereo...the head unit, and amps are actually fine...I know many many love to pull their stereo stuff out and start over...The head unit and amps can generate, and carry, and transmit clean power...The speakers...forget about it...Nautique as usual is completely insane...The put in the cheapest speakers you can possibly buy from polk. I love polk stuff...But their bottom of the line stuff is terrible. So in the showroom - in the lift - sounds great...but on the water while underway you can't even hear it. So i had to completely dismantle the upholstery to replace with wetsounds stuff. But with help from MLA on nautique forum and wetsounds, it turned out great. Again, you can't buy the bottom of line wetsounds stuff either. I got the xs650 for the 6 cabin speakers, and xs10fa to replace the sub. This sub is designed to work well in a free air environment and the beauty of the situation is that they make it in a 2 amp and a 4 amp...So i was able to double output in a free air environment, using same enclosure by going with 2 amp...Again the bastards at nautique could simply design it so that behind the sub it was sealed...come on it would not be that difficult, and they could advertise that. But I did not want to give up any more space, and you can't get to that space. Upgrading the in cabin speakers is a VERY VERY big job. Due to being on small lake I don't use tower speakers, the neighbors hate me enough. As I said, I kept the oem amps...So the amp that ran the tower speakers runs the 4 main cabin speakers, and the amp that ran all 6 in cabins before runs, the sub - but the sub is 2 ohm now instead of 4 ohm, and the 4 channels left are bridged to run the bow speakers. So everything is powered perfectly within all specs, verified with wetsounds. Sound is damn good...
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-30-2017, 7:55 AM Reply   
The wake:

Background, and I do think context is necessary, cause it really depends on what your usually ride, your skill level, if you want vertical or rampy, a cheater wake, or wanna work hard to get air, like a wide wake, or narrow, what speed you like to go, etc...

My original crew got spoiled with the 2008 210 wake...I had replaced the stock hard tanks in the back and had 1,100 sacs in each corner. I had ran stock oem hard tank full, we had also had fat brick in bow, and 650 bag in walkway. This produced on the 2008 210, a narrow clean, pretty vertical, wake.

The point is we like narrow vertical wakes. We are constantly working on arms in, leg push, and getting air time for grabs etc. We don't want to - and try not to power in with speed to fly over into the flats.

On the g21 with only a driver in the boat and one guy being pulled you can produce BETTER THAN the above wake - which is pretty impressive - with stock ballast. The g21 produces this with no extra bags...When you get 3 or more guys in the boat with stock ballast the wake only gets better.

So depending on how many people you usually ride with you can stop with stock ballast. But of course I could not stop there...I took the advice of a ironj from nautique forum who has been riding g's since i think day one, when they came out. I got 650 bags (actually same bag i had in walkway in 210) and put one on each side in rear lockers of the g21. Ironj goes all out on his g23 and puts weight in the bow as well. I did not want to fill bags in the bow though. So what I did is rather than putting them all they back in the rear corners I moved them up about halfway. Remember the g has "communicating" storage from the rear up under the side seats, and this bag fits perfectly under. So by putting this bags forward a bit they still fill to probably pretty close to full capacity, without having to add bow weight.

So in order to have while underway adjust-ability, we fill these 650's full, then we do belly like 3/4 and port and starboard like 1/2. Then we see where people are going to sit, and adjust from their. You need extra weight on the portside due to prop torque...

The wake is narrow, pretty darn vertical but with very long thick transitions...What I mean is that even with a pretty vertical wake you have all the time in the world to leg push and time your jumps. It is a deceiving nice wake. It is very clean...and each side cleans up more as rider approaches each side.

I will throw in here - that with only adding water to port side side for prop torque the g21 wake is clean to 18.5 mph maybe lower.

Ok...here we go...I won't assign numbers, and remember this is compared to how I weighted above for the 2008 210, and g21...The axis had 1,100 in rear, and we had triangle bag in front, and wedge deployed..

g21 vs 2008 210: The g21 is as clean, g21 is probably a little less sensitive, but not much, equally narrow, g21 has less lip at end. g21 is way bigger and longer wake, g21 is somewhat less vertical. The g21 is a pretty signficant improvement. No bags out, bigger longer thicker transitions. Very equal in bow rise. 210 takes water over the bow very easily with low slung style, g21 does not have this problem.

g21 vs 2015 axis a22: The g21 is as clean, g21 is less sensitive, much more narrow, both have no lip, g21 is a fair amount bigger and longer wake, g21 is somewhat more vertical. G21 has less bow rise than the axis A22. (please don't even argue this point, there is a reason axis themselves, points to the t22 as having less bow rise...it is cause they know the a series has bow rise). both boats easily take water up the back if don't slow down properly. both boats have no problem with water over the bow.

g21 vs 210 230: The g21 is much cleaner, much less sensitive, somewhat narrower. equally vertical. g21 has probably equally long transitions. g21 has pretty equal bow rise. 230 has no problems with water over the bow or up the back, but g21 has water up the back problem.

Ok. Look at it this way...and this is - and is true of everything to this point with no lie no embellishment, etc...and not being a fan boy...but based on extensive time on all these boats: At same rope length, and same speed, my tricks immediately improved. I did not get better, it just got easier to do the same tricks on the g21.

The 2015 a22 is not as long of transition (ramp) and is much wider. The 2008 210 is nice and narrow, but short ramp and transitions. The 230 is a awesome boat, and wake, but you do have to weight it down, as it is very sensitive.

The downside...the ballast puppy on nautique are ridiculously slow...so slow...Nautique should deal with that shizzle...

For wake vs price...The axis wins every time...I paid about $15k more for a 300 hour (409 motor) (60 day warranty) g21 (no design package, but a few extra's) than what I could have gotten a brand new 2016 a22...but if you are ok with a22 bow rise and wide wake get the A22, and save the $. Some axis seats are loose with no hinges, number in cabin seats facing rider limited on axis) For me I would rather invest more $, knowing I will get the $ back later when I sell to have nautique name...not that is better just different. But convenience wise the axis wins out by a mile...the aerator pump system on axis is much much faster, and the wedge add's like equivalent of 1,200 lbs ballast just by dropping it down.
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       04-30-2017, 10:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tn_rider View Post
TBH, I grew up riding a 04-13 x-star with 3000-4000 pounds of ballast. A buddy of mine just got a G and I haven't been behind it because it was cold. But the stock wake just looked meh to me from the boat. Not what I was expecting at all.


I rode the stock G yesterday. First set behind it. Full stock ballast 4 people in the boat and NRCS at 5 and played with it some riding. I don't get the hype. I was expecting so much more really. Everyone kept saying massive stock wake. I don't see it. Last weekend a buddy of mine rode it with 750's in each rear compartment and a 750 in the bow and from the boat it was easily the biggest wake I've ever seen. Planing off you can't see the rider from the wall of water forming. Once it's shaped up I'd bet it was more than hip high on him 5'10. I didn't get to ride it because of a bad hip . The grin on his face when the wake shaped up said enough though LOL
Old     (Tallredrider)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-30-2017, 6:12 PM Reply   
Scottb, Please clarify on what you had to do to remove the stock Polk speakers. I am not sure you would have to remove all of the upholstery to accomplish this.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-30-2017, 7:24 PM Reply   
Yep, you have to pull the upholstery off, replacing many of the so called christmas tree studs, which break to get to the panel that holds in the speaker lights, etc. Then you can flip it over and bend out the tabs holding the speaker grills on.

Some people have tried to pull off the speaker grills, and then put mini pieces of velcro on to put them back on...I did not see how that would end well.

I uploaded those pictures in a weird order. Look at bottom one first. First you pull off the panel (see the xmas studs). Then you unscrew the whole black panel shown in first picture. Then if you look at second picture you can see the tabs you have to bend straight to get the grill cover off. Then in first picture you unscrew the speaker.

And of course during the process you will see how the blue panels are not pushed all the way in. And of course if the light over the speaker ever goes out - god forbid - you get to do the whole thing all over again. And if you zoom in you can see that in a g21 boat, with what it costs they put in $50 per pair polks...And they don't predrill any thing so if you look at the middle picture you will see only 2 screws coming thru the plastic ring, even though in the other picture you can see 4 holding in the speaker. There is no consistency. They just power in what they can. A couple of them had that plastic back of speaker ring broken, cause when they power in it just breaks that piece.
Attached Images
   

Last edited by scottb7; 04-30-2017 at 7:33 PM.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-30-2017, 7:45 PM Reply   
Final result...with irony of polk grill cover with wetsounds behind it...pretty sweet, if i do say so myself.
Attached Images
  
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-01-2017, 11:30 AM Reply   
Still have not got a chance to ride behind the G. I am supposed to set up a demo but I wanted to get some sets in first. I am going to ride for five days this week so after that I will set up the Demo. I was dead set against a 21 but after getting in one at the boat show, it is now in the running. I will be interested what it feels like to be in one on the water (enough Space??) If anyone in California is selling at a good price let me know. Also if anyone gets up to Tulloch that has a G I would love to get a chance to take a set. I have the X-2 loaded with over 3K of ballast and always looking for people to ride with.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       05-01-2017, 11:58 AM Reply   
Mike you seem like an all sport, no flash kind of wakeboarder. Just curious why you're set on the G, when a great wake can be had for half the money.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-01-2017, 2:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Mike you seem like an all sport, no flash kind of wakeboarder. Just curious why you're set on the G, when a great wake can be had for half the money.
Because I am strictly a MC/Nautique kind of guy. I want the best wake possible, and MC has failed in my eyes since going away from the Gen 2 Xstar wake. I also do like the bells whistles of the Nautique but it is wake first and formost. Also I will probably keep the boat for 10 years or more so eventhough the initial investment will give me the some indigestion, the boat will probably last the rest of my wakeboarding life.

Now if I go demo the G and I don't care for it(or more importantly my wife doesn't care for it) than I may look around. But I will probably just find a Gen 2 Xstar and rock it old school.

I guess I am brand snob. LOL
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-01-2017, 3:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPMike0663 View Post
Because I am strictly a MC/Nautique kind of guy. I want the best wake possible, and MC has failed in my eyes since going away from the Gen 2 Xstar wake. I also do like the bells whistles of the Nautique but it is wake first and formost. Also I will probably keep the boat for 10 years or more so eventhough the initial investment will give me the some indigestion, the boat will probably last the rest of my wakeboarding life.



Now if I go demo the G and I don't care for it(or more importantly my wife doesn't care for it) than I may look around. But I will probably just find a Gen 2 Xstar and rock it old school.



I guess I am brand snob. LOL


If you havent been behind a G yet and ride the gen 2 star loaded I'd recommend bringing sacks. I was very underwhelmed by the stock wake. I didn't think it lived up to the hype at all (as far as size). However the shape is good!
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-01-2017, 3:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tn_rider View Post
If you havent been behind a G yet and ride the gen 2 star loaded I'd recommend bringing sacks. I was very underwhelmed by the stock wake. I didn't think it lived up to the hype at all (as far as size). However the shape is good!
That is not good to hear. I was hoping to be done with sacks. But I will test drive and see.
Old     (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-01-2017, 4:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tn_rider View Post
If you havent been behind a G yet and ride the gen 2 star loaded I'd recommend bringing sacks. I was very underwhelmed by the stock wake. I didn't think it lived up to the hype at all (as far as size). However the shape is good!
If your comparing a xstar with 4500lbs + of ballast to a stock G23 you will be disappointed. The math just inst there. 4500 + 4250 = 8750 vs 5500 + 2850 = 8350 in a larger boat. The difference comes when you add weight to the 23 there is so much head room over the xstar with out spilling out of the lockers.

The 21 wake with the same stock ballast there is a noticeable difference compared to the 23 IMO. Add weight and it only gets better. Being honest though my wake will never match an LSV's wake with 5000 lbs in it.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-01-2017, 4:22 PM Reply   
Right now I have Gen 1 XStar (X-2) with a little over 3K in it. I am hoping the wake is better than that without adding much weight. I don't need the biggest thing in the world. I just need easy consistent with more room than the X-2. As my kids get older space is an issue in X-2 and that should not be the case in the newer boat with the weight hidden.
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-01-2017, 5:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPMike0663 View Post
Right now I have Gen 1 XStar (X-2) with a little over 3K in it. I am hoping the wake is better than that without adding much weight. I don't need the biggest thing in the world. I just need easy consistent with more room than the X-2. As my kids get older space is an issue in X-2 and that should not be the case in the newer boat with the weight hidden.


Don't let my opinion get you bummed. It's just an opinion. The stock wake is without a doubt the best stock wake I've ridden. It just wasn't as big as I was expecting. Seeing it with 750's in the rear a 750 in the bow and 6 people and it's not fathomable TBH. You cannot understand the mass and thickness of the wake until you see it. I suspect you started with stock ballast in your boat and ended up with the 3k extra over time knowing every 100 pounds you add makes it that much better. Same with the g. I suspect you'll weight it out because it's that much better lol.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-09-2017, 3:36 PM Reply   
Man it is tough to find one of these G23/G21 to ride behind in my area. I contacted a dealer and they are trying to set something up but understandably they want to negotiate pricing beforehand. I now will consider going new, but this is big purchase for us and there is no way I am making any commitment until I have ridden both the 23 and a 21. Tough spot, I don't want to waste the dealers time but I will not be able to make an educated decision until I ride behind the boats. Would defiantly be easier to find someone in my area with either of these boats. Again if there is anyone on Tulloch with one of these boats and don't mind helping me out it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-09-2017, 7:28 PM Reply   
The dealer should be going out of their way to make this happen for you in my opinion. If I were a dealer you would have been on a G for a demo already hands down...bad customer service already it sounds like. Or do they just not have a G in stock?
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-09-2017, 8:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tn_rider View Post
The dealer should be going out of their way to make this happen for you in my opinion. If I were a dealer you would have been on a G for a demo already hands down...bad customer service already it sounds like. Or do they just not have a G in stock?
I know what you are saying but I do understand from a dealer perspective these boats are now like exotic cars and they don't want to take a bunch of people out who just want a joy ride. Even myself I question wheather I will pony up and go new. But I have to be able to ride behind it and be in the boat to make that judgement. In the end the dealership is setting up some dates. I was hoping I would find someone on here who has a 23 or 21 and ride with them and then demo the other one. Hopefully I will have a review in the near future.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-09-2017, 9:26 PM Reply   
Find a third/Be a third? Drive a long distance if you have to. Make a weekend out of it if you have to, just to spend a few hours or a day on one. I guarantee someone on Planet Nautique would love to show you their G without giving you a sales pitch. A dealer demo only lasts so long and then you're dealing with all that pressure or feelings of obligation. If you're not committed to or have the G love already, you probably WILL be wasting a dealer's time. If youre not a genuine high roller, so what? Most people aren't. Buy used and live to tell about it after the next economic downturn.
Old     (SteeleAxis)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-11-2017, 10:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPMike0663 View Post
Man it is tough to find one of these G23/G21 to ride behind in my area. I contacted a dealer and they are trying to set something up but understandably they want to negotiate pricing beforehand. I now will consider going new, but this is big purchase for us and there is no way I am making any commitment until I have ridden both the 23 and a 21. Tough spot, I don't want to waste the dealers time but I will not be able to make an educated decision until I ride behind the boats. Would defiantly be easier to find someone in my area with either of these boats. Again if there is anyone on Tulloch with one of these boats and don't mind helping me out it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike
Which dealer are you working with? Send me a PM, can probably get you out on our G23 if you come down to the delta.
Old     (brhanley)      Join Date: Jun 2001       05-12-2017, 8:48 PM Reply   
If you come from a long line of Nautiques, and like the 210 wake, you will not be disappointed at all in the G21. It's magnificent.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-13-2017, 7:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brhanley View Post
If you come from a long line of Nautiques, and like the 210 wake, you will not be disappointed at all in the G21. It's magnificent.
I am sure it is great but I have been Mastercraft for life, so that is my issue. I am sure we can adapt but my wife has basically only rode master craft. First 205 and than gen 1 xstar. So I am sure that will be a pretty good adjustment.

I am looking forward to a bigger boat. With all the weight in our current boat my 2 and 4 year old are killing me.
Old     (supra24ssv)      Join Date: Mar 2006       05-15-2017, 4:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPMike0663 View Post
I am sure it is great but I have been Mastercraft for life, so that is my issue. I am sure we can adapt but my wife has basically only rode master craft. First 205 and than gen 1 xstar. So I am sure that will be a pretty good adjustment.

I am looking forward to a bigger boat. With all the weight in our current boat my 2 and 4 year old are killing me.

After 15 years of owning Supras I'm considering buying a G23. I have two concerns. First is I just don't know how much mark up they have. I'm not sure I'm getting a good deal. The boat list for 197 and they are wanting 155. Seems like a lot of dough. The second issue is directly related to the first. I don't care to pay to play but how much money will I lose on the damn thing? I see 3-4 year old G23's sitting on the market for 60k bucks less. That may not be a pill I'm willing to swallow. It's difficult to sell boats in the price range a few years old because of the finance options on older boats. Any thoughts?
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-15-2017, 7:21 AM Reply   
I'm a firm believer that the wakeboat industry has gone the way of the exotic car industry. No matter what you buy, you're going to face depreciation. However, when you get into the upper echelon boats (i.e. the G23's, G25's, XStars, X46's, M235's), it's like buying a Porsche 911 Turbo. It's an unlimited hyper expensive model, which any one with enough money can go out and buy. Most people who want the tip top ultra flashy flagship model, and have the capability of paying +/- $140k, tend to want a boat with the perfect set of options (especially interior/exterior colors). Those people would just as soon buy new and order to spec. Sure, there's a chance that a lightly used flagship boat with the exact right set of options will pop up for a modest discount, but if you're financing a chunk of the price, new boats usually get better rates. In most instances, for those used flagship boats to sell to a normal boat owner who's considering a variety of models, it's going to have to be a damn good deal; hence the larger than normal amount of depreciation. I mean, a used 911 Carrera will still depreciate significantly, but it will not take the $40-50k hit that a turbo will in the first 2 years. Also, with the flagship boats, there's always something bigger and better looming on the horizon, or some key new tech that's implemented, which renders that best of the best not so much the best within a season or tow, which drives the premium down further. Lastly, not everyone wants to have to buy a 10 billion ton lift or a F450 to store or pull one of these massive trophy boats around.

Last edited by chattwake; 05-15-2017 at 8:07 AM.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-15-2017, 7:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by supra24ssv View Post
After 15 years of owning Supras I'm considering buying a G23. I have two concerns. First is I just don't know how much mark up they have. I'm not sure I'm getting a good deal. The boat list for 197 and they are wanting 155. Seems like a lot of dough. The second issue is directly related to the first. I don't care to pay to play but how much money will I lose on the damn thing? I see 3-4 year old G23's sitting on the market for 60k bucks less. That may not be a pill I'm willing to swallow. It's difficult to sell boats in the price range a few years old because of the finance options on older boats. Any thoughts?
We seem to be in the same boat. I have been analyzing this for about six months now. If you read the whole thread I started buying a used gen 2 xstar for around 50-60k and letting someone else get hammered with the initial hit. I actually had one I had an agreement on and a second one I was on my way to Texas when it was sold as I was booking my flight.

The more my wife and I looked at things we decided we maybe did not want a boat that was already six to eight years old and we started this thread. After researching used Gs, we went to the boat show and got in new ones and I will say pretty awesome boats. My wife and I started to talk about possibly going new. We use our boat, probably 300 hours a year and would keep the boat for probably 10 years or so, so I can justify the hit of going new when I go to resale, for the ability to purchase exactly what we want.

With that said I would still purchase used and let someone else take that initial "pain" if the right deal becomes available. Right now I just want to ride one to make sure it is the right fit for us.

Also when my dealer sent me the pricing on the boat, they sent it with 20K down and 20 year financing. I am not hating on anyone, but man you have to have some balls to put 20k down on a luxury item that you will be upside down on when you leave the lot. That is not how I roll but I guess everyone has a different comfort zone.

For now hopefully Matt or my dealer will come through. If not I am located in "no man's land when it comes to dealers" so I can contact another one. But one thing is for sure there is no way I buy without putting some time behind the boat one way or another.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-15-2017, 9:41 AM Reply   
Go for new. So it costs you $10-15k per year for depreciation for first 4-6 years. You got it covered!
Old     (xstreamws)      Join Date: May 2009       05-21-2017, 11:22 AM Reply   
If your gonna buy NEW buy a Nautique G23. We ordered ours back in Nov and it arrived last Friday and we will take delivery this week. We looked at MC because we have had 2 and where fantastic boats. However that has changed.
Old     (BCPMike0663)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-22-2017, 7:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstreamws View Post
If your gonna buy NEW buy a Nautique G23. We ordered ours back in Nov and it arrived last Friday and we will take delivery this week. We looked at MC because we have had 2 and where fantastic boats. However that has changed.
Very jeolous!!! Amazing looking boat.

We saw a G23 leaving are lake yesterday and my wife is in love. Still need to ride behind one but this is the direction I am heading.

Used to be mastercraft for life but I have moved on from anything new they make. (Glad I didn't get that tatoo)
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       05-24-2017, 12:54 PM Reply   
To me it's not necessarily the size of the G wake...it's the firmness! Its wake really launches and IMO is the PERFECT shape. But, some do like a steeper wake, and some like one a little softer (dunno why). But I came from an '08 XStar with pro tour ballast set up and the G in stock form was the closest to that but is a touch bigger and better! Oh, and IF you did want to surf, esp if you're goofy, you can forget that on the 2nd gen star. Surfing alone is why I lost so much potential sale on my '08. Too many people want to surf now and that model XStar does NOT surf well. If you're looking to keep a boat for a while, then the G is perfect. Lots of storage, lots of wake out of the box, and lots of potential for more. 8'3" is the total average height of the boat on the trailer so 9'+ garage doors are ideal which is a downfall. MC still makes an awesome boat, but as for right now, just doesn't compete with the G. Now if they can take their X23 and give it the 2nd Gen XStar's wake, then they'd be in business. From what I've been told, there will be a new XStar next year which I'm excited to see...but I guess we will have to wait and see.

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