vlx, super air, or x-star {x-2}

I'm trying to decide between the super air,vlx,and the x-star now called the x-2. There seems to be something I don't like about each one. This has probably been covered before, but I'd like to hear from people that own these boats that can tell me honestly what you like and dislike about your boat. thanks

What do you think the pros and cons are of each?

I came up with the vlx after much thought and mutiple trips to the boat show. Super air was high on the list but was voted down because of cramped interior, We spend all day on the boat so space is important. X-2 similar size thing with only 90" beam. We also considered tige 22v but it was too big, would not fit in garage. The vlx fit our size needs, has a great wake, the plushist of all the interiors and reasonably priced. have yet to give it the real test though.

I like the san, but the interior space is limited, and the back seat which has changed from the clamshell to a single bench seat seems to be an after thought. The vlx, and mastercraft seem better designed in the interior, but I have concerns about the dealer in my area, they sell both boats but constantly put down the other boat. they also have a bad reputation for service. It seems a lot of people on this site have super airs, so I'm just trying to get feed back from people who own these boats to try to make a more educated buying decision. thanks

I am buying a new one also. I have demoed them all except vlx. SAN has the best wake and best overall build. Dont like passenger storage seat and interior is cramped. Xstar cramped, 2nd best wake. Supra ssv, nice price roomy decent wake. VLX, nice price nice interior wake ? yet to see.

Here's my view. All three boat are great. It is a matter of preference.

*	price	build	drive	turn	wake	fuel	comfort	storage	total
SAN	4.0	5.0	5.0	4.0	5.0	5.0	4.5	3.0	35.5
X2	4.5	4.5	4.5	4.5	4.5	4.5	4.0	4.5	35.5
VLX	5.0	4.0	4.0	5.0	4.0	4.0	4.5	5.0	35.5

The SAN has the best wake, best fuel range/efficiency and the worst interior.
The SAN tracks great but turns around poorly when sacked.
The VLX has a rampy wake, sucky fuel range/efficiency and the best interior.
The VLX tracks more poorly but turns around great when sacked.
The X2 is pretty much between the two on all fronts.

Just my opinion.

I dont see how people say that the SAN is more roomy/comfortable than the X-2. The open bow in the SAN is pathetic(sp) in comparison, not half as deep or layed back, when we test drove it I felt like I was going to fallout. The driver seat and postion of the throttle is much more uncomfortable. I have no comment on the BU.

I admit that my view of comfort focused on the cockpit only.
VLX is huge but simple.
SAN is spacious and refined.
X2 is small but stylish.

I haven't seen a Super Air before but a sport and a pro air I have looked at it seemed like you sit "on" the boat rather than "in" the boat like you do in a VLX. Is that a valid point or does it not hold for the Super?

I just went through this between the X2 & 210.

Here is what helped me make my decision.

X2
Hands down has the best tower
Reverses to the right
Nice cover
Stock ballast between 700lbs and 800lbs
Trailer is awesome
Nice wake with clean transition, not so sensitive to weight.

210
All hard tanks for ballast vs a center bag in the X2
Locking storage
Gas fill on both sides
Interior is larger than X2
Standard 330 hp motor vs 310 in the X2
Ballast 820lbs can be filled while under way

5 year bumper to bumper warranty on everything

I liked both boats and looked long and hard at them.

We decided to get the 210 for a few reasons, dealer location, the fact that I could get a custom trailer built how I wanted it, and a few of the things I listed above.

I don't know much about the Malibu's the dealer is almost 2 hours away from me.

The one thing I don't like about the 210 is the observers seat storage. I wish it could open without lifting the whole seat. I will make it a custom seat myself with a sawsall and a few hinges.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Ya Gramps warranty is a big consideration if your dealer is good. Otherwise, the warranty looses value big time.

Dane, are you saying the X2 and the VLX turn better with weight than the Super Air? When we test drove the 210 I couldn't believe how the thing performed with weight. Are the others even better?

Blabel the significant difference is with the slow turn turnaround. My friends sacked CC (actually a sport) has a hard time turning around in the narrow channels of the delta while my VLX turns around on a dime.

The BU needs 1/3 of the channel and the CC needs 2/3 of the channel. It is a significant issue on the delta and probably more of a don't care for a lake rider or a power turner.

The BU also gets much more influenced by the riders pull than the CC. This adds a lot of driver stress to the BU driver. In the CC, the driver gets to sit back and relax as the boat tracks straight.

These are both profound differences that I have experienced day after day on a sample of two boats. I am also assuming that the SAN turning is similar to the Sport (same hull and same rudder).

That is a heck of a comparison Dane (number grid). Looks very accurate to me. My experience has been X-Star riders get used to that wake an like it a little better and SAN riders get used to their wakes and like it better than the X-Star wake.

I might mark the turn lower for the X-star, but I think the interior is very comfortable in the Star or X2.

From my experience, the SAN turned better than the VLX and the X-Star.

The SAN interior just looks better and well built compared to the X-Star, but the VLX has the roomiest.

All 3 have very nice wakes w/ the SAN having the bigger and more solid wakes. VLX has friendliest wake.

They all have good fuel range/efficiency...of course, I'm talking about '03 models. Yes, the older VLX had sucky fuel range/efficiency. Now, w/ 6 riders, weight AND the Wedge, we used a little over half a tank.

Please note that I scored my boat in last place (out of the three) in 4 of 8 categories. No ownership goggles here!

Of course, a score of 4 of 5 is not bad also. The only boat that has a glaring problem to me is the storage attribute of the SAN. I think I was VERY generous to give it a 3 out of 5.

Doug, I think the xstar/x2 cockpit is quite a bit smaller than the VLX (I put a full size cooler behind my drivers seat - the long way) and still smaller than the SAN. If I was to take into account the open bow, then the SAN gets marked down and the X2/VXL get marked up.

Joe, it could be that the wedge is a big fuel saver since it has little effect when the boat is running slow. This could really help with each slow turn around and each start.

Joe, or Wes, do you have trouble turning the SAN around in the channels of Victoria? My VLX turns on a dime - easily 1/2 or 1/3 the radius of JR's Sport Nautique. In that CC, reverse has to be used often while I almost never need it in my VLX.

To me the turning aspects of the boat, like a sports car, at higher speeds, when loaded, are of little importance. And, I also feel like all the boats function adequately here.

Joe, with the wedge, I hear the wake on the VLX is also a bit more peaky/vert. Did you find this? This is also a plus. On my 2000 VLX, I can get a more peaky wake by overloading the back. Unfortunately, this also brings even worse driving (bow rise) and gas economy. So, the wedge may be a huge positive VLX attribute that I don't have in my boat or my point accounting above.

Dane, I didn't have any problems turning Wes' or twakess' Super Air at the Delta.

Yes, the wake on the new VLX is MUCH more peaky than older models, due to the Wedge. We rode w/o the Wedge for a bit (we forgot about it), and was amazed at the huge difference!

Thanks, for the info Joe! I will adjust my thinking.

Joe, did you experience the significant rider-steer differences that I have experienced between the BU and the CC?

When I drive JR's CC with JR or Matt behind the boat, I hardly have to adjust the boat to remain straight. While the opposite is very true on my VLX.

yes, my boat definitely doesn't turn as sharp as Dane's at slow speeds. it didn't seem to be a problem the other day though, just something to be aware of so you don't get yourself caught doing a 3 point turn. as for the open bow, i'm surprised you guys think the san's is small - i'm 6'3" and i'm pretty comfortable up in mine (I fall asleep up there more often than not it seems like these days)...

the more i think about it, the main thing that bugs me about my boat is the cooler under the seating on the port side. pretty useless, and it could be decent storage if set up properly. maybe i'll turn it into a custom subwoofer enclosure.

Thanks Wes. Ya, my opinion of the bow could be off. I have such little experience up there, I should probably refrain from comment.

Too bad I can't put the wedge on my boat. It would help with two major things that bug me:
1) running out of gas before the day ends and 2) not as vert a wake as I would like.

Yes, that cooler is pretty lame. It could be a decent sub enclosure since there is a natural port with the required void for lifting the clamshell.

dane,

Christie's having a Wedge put on her boat. From what I understand is that it wouldn't work on that hull...is why it didn't come with it. But what do I know???

At least the SAN has a cooler. Why on earth didn't they install one of the x2??

Stefani, no cooler may be better than a bad cooler. BTW, my VLX does not have a cooler. Yet, a full size iglo fits behind the drivers seat with ease. It makes for a pretty nice step and additional seat too. Plus, it hauls iced drinks/food to/from the house nicely.

Here is a picture of the double covered box within a box cooler of the SAN. I think it is probably big enough to fit two six packs (while consuming a potential storage space twice the size).

SAN observer vs X2 observer.
- no access while underway.
- must keep things within the seat outline.
- don't stack too high or the seat will not close.
- awkward on your knees access.
- void required between middle seat (cooler) to allow clamshell swing.

This has been the most informative thread I have ever seen on comparing the Big 3's flagship wakeboarding boats. Kudos to Dane for having what appears to be ZERO ownership goggles. That chart was killer. I would agree 100% on the things I have observed and the rest fits nicely from all the info I have been able to gather. None of these boats are "perfect." I wish more people would stop trying to make themselves look good by contantly telling us what a screaming deal they got on the one and only perfect boat and instead try to help fellow boat purchasers out with what they've honestly learned, good AND bad.

This thread definitely puts the VLX back in play for me when I buy. Steve in AZ runs his with the wedge and a lot of lead, I believe, and from the videos I have seen his wake is killer. Also watching Christie's videos, the wake looks damn good behind her boat. And that was WITHOUT the wedge???

One thing that was swaying me hard toward the Super Air was the warranty, but then it was pointed out to me that you are actually "paying" for the warranty because the Super Air is around 5k more than an x2 and 10k more than a VLX. You can buy a similar warranty for the X2 or VLX and still be getting the boat way cheaper than the Super Air.

Anyway, I've decided to wait a year for various reasons, including getting an opportunity to check out the new X-star and see if that thing is legit. Meanwhile, I'll hopefully get a lot of time in and behind Gramps' new Super Air and a couple opportunities to check out the VLX. I have ridden behind an X2 and thought that wake was amazing with just a moderate amount of weight.

yep Dane too some great photos at last year's boat show (the reps didn't appreciate the ones of the tower mounts if I remember!). like Dane I prefer a normal cooler dropped in behind the driver seat. works as a rear-facing seat, can easily be removed from the boat at the end of the day with no mess, and best of all is a convenient step into the boat so no one steps on the vinyl ;-)

Dane, I agree you have been a big help for those of us buying a new boat. I am looking at the big three as well as the Supra SSV. Do you have any info on where it fits in your chart.

Was off-line for the week end, so sorry to come in a little late with this question... Dane, or anyone else that does, what specifically made you put the CC over the other two on construction?

And do you consider quality of the interior part of the constrution? (Aside from the layout.) By interior, I don't necessarily mean the vinyl, etc, but more the structural parts like seat bases, panels, etc.

Seems to me that the CC does not necessarily have an edge on the construction point. Other than that, I mostly agree with your score chart, although I have limited Malibu experience.

David - I have heard nothing but good things about the SSV. it is definitely a different boat from the SAN/X2 type though - much bigger. it was very spacious and comfortable inside. I ruled it out early on together with Mastercraft due mainly to a poor experience with my local dealers/salesmen.

Thanks, everyone, for being positive towards my opinion. It is fine for you to agree or disagree. I am trying to refine my opinion as well.

Actually, Joe's feedback on the wedge's effect on the new wakesetter has me re-considering the VLX for my next boat. A steeper wake, better gas economy, and extended gas range lessen 3 of 4 of my gripes about my boat. The only other gripe that I have is the lesser tracking and that attribute is not a deal breaker.

Side note: the wedge could prove to be a huge asset for BU with gas prices heading north.

David, sorry, I have no experience with the SSV. But, from what I hear, it is a very nice boat.

Fredrik, I feel all three boats are built adequately. They all get good marks in my book. I feel that none of these boats are likely to fall apart structurally over their lifetime. And, I am not one to get into the minutia of "who uses this or that epoxy". To me, the construction attributes that matter are those that fail during normal use. I rate BU a bit lower because I have had a number of small issues (vinyl at backrest, knobs on hatches, MLS leak system, heater falling off the kick wall). My sense is that CC is more solid, MC is just shy of CC, and BU is just shy of MC.

Looking down the road for me, I am probably on the same timeline as Andre for a boat change (provided I can ride after my knee rehab). I do wish that BU would improve the wakesetter hull making it more narrow for a more vert wake and better fuel efficiency (effectively, a SAN with storage and wedge). I am excited about seeing the new x-star. It is essentially a wide boat on top of a narrow hull. I can't wait to see it in action!

Andre, is an extended warranty backed by the manufacturer? Or, is it a side deal with a third party? There could be a significant difference here.

BTW, my dealer was so poor (but now vastly improved) there was a time when felt the warranty was useless. My dealer would hack and patch the little things and punish me through the process (multiple trips; shoddy solutions). A form of catastrophic coverage only.

My boat has tears in the vinyl on the backrest and vinyl pulled away from the hatch knobs now. All of these items were supposedly fixed under warranty. And, now they need to be fixed again by me.

I would want a warranty with the manufacturer on the hook or not at all.

You can't even fit a average size cooler behind the seat of an x2 though, can you? I think the cabin room on the x2 is smaller. But I like the tower and the trailer better on the x2.

I like the wake on both and found them similar. Does anyone have more opinions on the wake (x2 vs. SAN)? Would you agree that they are similar or no?

I do think the SAN might be a little more sensitive to weight.....

This is a great post.....

The width of the cockpit in the SAN is 78" vs 68" in the X2.

The amount of space behind the driver's seat with it all the way back on the SAN was 27" and the X2 was 19".

The width I am positive about, but the other measurement is my best recollection.

I have crawled in and out of every space on those 2 boats this spring and finally made the decision to buy the X-2.

Thanks Jessica. What tilt you towards the x2 (if you don't mind me asking)?

i'm would really like to hear from some supra ssv users compared to these boats noted here. i'm ready to buy but just not sure.

Good luck getting warranty work done on the Malibus. I have heard from many people that Malibu is horrible about paying their dealers for warranty work.

Hey Stefani:
I sent you an email with the spreadsheet I made comparing the 2 boats.

the only complaint i have about MC is the trailer. Mine (02 Xstar single axel) broke down in january, and the part wasnt sent to the dealer until late last week. I regret not getting a tandem axel, and I have considered trading my trailer for a tandem of another make.

Hey....I can not believe it.... This is the first time that I have heard Joe say that the Malibu Wake is not a ramp ) Welcome aboard Joe....J/K!!! The wedge makes a huge difference. The wake flexability is nice too. You can go from Rampy to Peaky very fast. With the boat loaded and the wedge down, the boat does not turn so well. I wonder if Malibu has a new tuning curve on their engine. I use a tank and a half of gas a day easy. Of course, I think I may be pushing it a little compared to Henry ) I could get better mileage I guess, but, how fun would that be? ;o)
How do you like the Malibu wake Stefani? hehehe....

I did have trouble with Malibu last year on a warranty item that had me pretty mad. They ended up paying for the whole thing at a service place of my choice. Kevin's Prop shop in Antioch. They even rush shipped everything so I did not miss my trip.

The Malibu has the best useful interior. I like the looks of the CC interior (most professional), and the MC interior feels like leather. It is cushy. Malibu's Dash it third on the list. I do not like digital gauges that much on the CC. Remember, the more expensive it looks and is, the more expensive it is to get replaced. It is a boat, so, it will break eventually (maybe). The Malibu can handle a lot of weight with no worries about water over the bow.

I like all the wakes for one reason or another. I know I can make mine huge. We have a friend with the five sack hippo system on his X-star and it was not as big as I thought it would be with that much wieght. I did like the wake though. I did not get as bucked as I did on mine. I found it a little better to learn wake to wake trick with. More of a smooth transistion and late pop. I need to ride the CC again. I liked it the first time. More narrow than the Malibu.

Rod, please describe your tank and a half day. How many hours of running time? What time in the AM do you start and what time in the PM do you end? How many rider sets? How is the boat loaded?

I dislike having to get gas mid-day. Fuel range is going to be a big consideration for me on my next boat.

Boat gas tank sizes and weights:

VLX: 35 gallons & 3000 lbs.
SAN: 39 gallons & 3190 lbs.
X2 : 33 gallons & 3050 lbs.
X* : 57 gallons & 4300 lbs.

The efficiency of the narrow hull of the SAN and it's larger gas tank make it pretty appealing (along with it's other positives).

Geeze, that new xstar is a beast.

A typical day is wedge, stock ballast, six people and other that I can not get into here. Basically, everyone going out and getting at least two long sets in. We are usually out from 10am until dark in the summer. The Malibu with the stock ballast and the wedge throws a pretty nice wake. It just gets bigger from there and the gas milage goes down as it gets bigger. Henry had a few people in the boat and he went all day without much gas usage in his 03' VLX. I was suprised. The SAN will be more effecient. I just love the storage, the huge built in cooler, I feel like I am real low in the boat when I dit down. That is important, with kids around, to me. The tracking improves with more weight in the front. I did notice a little pull with more weight in the back than the front. Actually, that boat can take all the weight you can throw in the front. I like that idea. It does not take on the waves so easy. Check out a couple of Christie's or Stefani's Video's or the one with Kevin Bird. See what you think. Kevin was on an 80' line. I was pulling everyone around 23 to 24 mph too.

This is a great and well rehearsed topic! I think the best lesson I have learned from these threads is this: These three boats make the majority of their owners VERY happy!

I think all of the wakes are incredible and have a certain amount of "getting used to" involved. I think the fit and finish is also close on them. I chose the SAN for many reasons, all of which could be debated due to personal preferances.

The best thing about this conversation is the fact that in all of these threads there has never been a decided "hands down" winner! I hope that never changes!

Good luck on your purchase and enjoy!

Rehearsed topic?
Well at least there is some real information here unlike the "rehearsed" boat reviews found in the magazines.
The question was asked and answered. And, I learned a lot with this thread.

I think he is just saying that this topic has been discussed many times before. I think this is one of the more valuable posts though, definitely. Seems like everyone is being extremely honest and non defensive.

Rod, of course I like your wake... But with gas prices going up, not sure I can afford it!

Jessica, thanks for the email.

This has been one of the most useful threads on WakeWorld in recent months.

Props to Dane for taking OFF the ownership goggles and giving an honest opinion.

The fact is each manufacturer has little things about their boats that I like and dislike. I think they all know this and tease us every few years to keep us coming back for more.

These are simply my OPINIONS of what I like a lot about each boat.

Mastercraft - hands down the best looking tower out there, follows the window lines perfect. Large swimstep is a big plus.

Malibu - hands down the best wind block out there, smoke plexiglass with their logo etched into it. Swivel seat is great and from what I hear it has the best storage.

Correct Craft - best wake for the amount of weight needed to get that wake. All hard tanks for ballast is nice. Sports car handling when weighted, drivers dash is clean and efficient.

Tige - Roomy wide open seating area, tons of storage and it has a swivel seat. Wakes are under-rated from what I have read and experienced.

Calabria - 45 seconds to put 700lbs of STOCK ballast onboard and not lose any storage, AWESOME.

If they could all put their heads together they would just call it the..........


MALTIGCORRBRIACRAFT named for the...

Malibu, Tige', Correct Craft, Calabria and Mastercraft.

They could ALL lower the prices too.

Thanks everyone for the comments, ideas and information.

(Message edited by akman on March 03, 2003)

Well I can shed some information from a biased person. Yes I am a Nautique fan, but I have driven and ridden quite a few boats. Having owned a Nautique in the past that was very good to me, I give them nothing but praise in many departments but every boat has its flaws.

As for wakes, I will happily ride any of the big three and an SSV any day, as long as they are weighted heavely.

No one specifically mentioned handling at speed. Throwing DU's can be a blast and being a Delta rider I tend to throw them tight and on the throttle the whole time. This is where the Nautique shines, with no prop blowout aka cavitation and a predictable smooth turn. The Malibu has a slower turn at speed due to speed drop and not being able to apply full power or the prop blows out. The Mastercraft really bugged me in that it would slowly start to turn then fairly quickly lean way over and turn faster right as the prop blows out. The Supra I would need some more time with but loaded with factory ballast and three sacks handled quite well. Plenty of power and the turn was predictable and I never experienced prop blowout, but I never pushed it when throwing DU's too hard as I was on a lake.

Slow speed handling. The Mastercraft and Malibu turn shaper than the Supra(long boat) and the Nautique. When a rider falls I turn either way generally and find some boats perform better both directions than others. As the turn is started, off power, the first question is will a wall of water come over the stern. I can tell you the Malibu definetely does. I jumped about two feet in the air last weekend, and have been completely drenched by other BU's in the past. If I remember correctly the Supra is perfectly dry, with the Mastercraft only coming close but never taking on water. With a normal heavy load the Nautique stays dry but when seriously loaded (3000+ lbs) the Nautique will take water over the stern. If needed to cross over boat wakes at idle it is nice to have power now! I know this is part of which motor the boat came with but the Malibu is a slug and the Mastercraft is not much better. I like the boat to pop the bow up quickly to pass over boat wakes. (Backing away from boat wakes works great, bow slightly angled towards them, never take a wake head on)

Backing up is going to get it's own paragraph. For the life of me I can only get the Malibu to back to the starboard. I can not even get it to go straight back. The Mastercraft will back straight up but not to the port. The SSV I can not remember well enough to comment on. BUT the Nautique backs both directions and straight. Obviously it wanders to the port if not driven properly. To dock a Nautique on the starboard side takes either a slow and methoticle working of the wheel and throttle or a hard and fast balls out approach. I prefer the balls out approach, as you are more likely to land exactly where you want too.

As for the interior, well I will skip the layout part as that has been beaten to death. Quality does count and I have seen the vinyl on Malibu's and Mastercrafts come apart more than a Nautique. Supra I am not too familar with would assume it will tear over time. I can not comment on the interior frame construction of any of the boats. When are the boat manufactures going to make a decent cooler? Ok well one interior layout comment....Supras rule here, they have so much room, and the built in folding center observer seat(windblock) and reversable rear seat are sweet.

Hey what if you took the Malibu seat and combined it with the Nautiques? Leave the fiberglass clam shell on the floor but have the entire seat top and seat open? Easy access and it would not be such a pain to close having to use the indentations in the carpet to know where the seat is going to land.

From what I understand Malibu is having a problem with their V-drive/prop shafts. Seems like there is a high failure rate there, and after hearing Rod's horror story that would scare me. The dealerships for Malibu are getting a bad rap around here. Supra seems to follow this board closely and is trying to be very customer oriented. Mastercraft at least around here has some great dealers. My local Nautique dealer has a bad name but there is a great local shop and Westcoast Correct Craft is willing to take on all repair and warranty work. I have heard many good things about Westcoast CC.

All that I just wrote will probably cause a stir in someones head, but hopefully others will find it usefull

Dane,
I totally agree with you! When wakeboardboattest.com first came online I was thrilled! But then I actually visited the site! It seems to me that these "buyers guides" are just "advertising" issues for the boat manufacturers. Most make it sound like a direct drive "ski" boat will make a wakeboard wake comparable to the v-drives as well! What!?! I would love to hear a negative comment on any of the boats reviewed just once!

By the way, thanks to all of you guys and gals for helping and advising when needed. You people are great!

With my 01 X --I have never had the cavitation prob that peter spoke of. But, I usually don't like my double up's real tight. I use perfect pass so I don't even touch the throttle. On some boats I know you have to, but I have been blessed with an above average PP setup that needs not be messed with. As for gas mileage, a typical 30 min summer run will average out to about 3 gallons per run. This is with 2 completely full large sacks in the back and a completely full one in the front. Depending on people and gear I may add one in the middle. In two years of ownership and 300hours I have been extremely happy with my boat, it still looks and smells like new, but I think I would have been happy with all 3.

I have a 2000 Malibu Escape and get to ride behind Doubleup's X-star and a Tige 21 RE. I'm not a great rider.

Wake preference among those 3 is 1) Tige - huge and steep, so steep that landing on the downslope is hard to achieve. 2) X-star - nice transition with good size. 3) Escape - Wake is a little wide and transition is not as good.

Interior: 1) Escape - large size and plushy looking and feeling. Great storage, you could about use the engine side compartments to sleep in. 2) Tige - even wider interior, especially because it doesn't have the side shelves. 3) X-star - a little cramped, nice seats.

Other: Malibu - we had trouble with the vinyl but Malibu covered most of it under warranty. The radio location to the right of the driver is awkward, the apparent coolers under the open bow seats are uninsulated. The wedge works great but you need to put some weight in the bow for rampier wake shape. The tower is an older Skylon that doesn't fold, but it's wide, tall and rock solid. We've got 465 hours on the boat and have had no mechanical problems other than the prop and shaft damage we caused by hitting stuff. Fully loaded and with the wedge down, the thing drives like a truck and isn't so quick turning. But other boats react similarly to weight I think.

Tige - I like the TAPS. Go to 7 when you're pulling and to 0 when you're turning around to pick up the rider or going to the dock. My friend has figured out the weight right for a great wake and doesn't get the wash others complain of. The interior space is awesome. The motor whines.

X-Star - Great all round boat. Wake is shaped well and narrower. Smaller boat so the horsepower can get you going better, even when loaded.

In spite of picking the Malibu last of these three for the most important thing, the wake, we'd probably go with it again. We like having all of the interior space for changing riders and hanging out and while maybe not as perfect as the other two, the wake ain't bad. Remember that this is a 22.5 foot boat without the platform so it's heavier and roomier. This really points out that while no boat is built exactly the way you want, there are differences that will appeal to different people.

My gut feeling is that a SAN will save me 10 gallons per day (4 riders by 3 sets) compared to my current VLX. At $2 per gallon thats $20 per day saved. Or, with 25 days a year, thats $500 saved per year. Not a deal breaker/maker, but something to consider. In addition, the SAN range likely means no additional mid-day fillup for my riding arrangement. With this, the SAN efficiency brings another significant advantage.

If someone (gramps) can figure out how to improve that clamshell, then a SAN will likely be in my future. Enough pluses to get me to pull the trigger (2000 VLX to 2004 SAN).

it is all preference. I am very happy with our 02 X-Star. NO problems in wake, comfortability, power, handling, turning, price and storage. Each boat has its pluses and minuses. The thing that kills me is that people always say that the X- Star handles crappy when loaded down. I completely disagree. Check out what Travis had to say about that in another post on WW. I have ridden behind many boats and I have many pros and cons for each boat. The one big thing that I hate about our X-Star is the bag in the ski locker. This boat was supposed to be MC's ultimate wake boat for many years. So why did they not make it a hard tank or at least make it an option. The X doesnt have a cooler which kind of sucks. But we found coolers that will fit perfect next to the ballast tanks in the back. We can fit four that hold 30 cans a piece and still have room for ropes, shoes, vests and other items. Of course the gas fill is only found on one side. That sucks but oh well.
Aki, you can fill up the ballast in the X when you are underway. That is not only found in the SANTE.
The SANTE is a great boat but for the price I think they could of added a few little things like a transom saver on the swimstep. The X came with it and it wasnt an option. Just small things like that catch my eye. CC could of also done a better job on their choice of trailers. I personally think that the FCT is crappy. I prefer the Zero Flex on the MC's much better.
The malibu is a nice boat but we didnt want that big of a boat. It puts out a nice wake but seems to take to much addtional weight to get the wake just right.

All of the above is strictly preference.

Another note, people have said that the CC's are built better than the MC's... I do not see where that conclusion comes from......

My Conclusion -- any of these boats will make you extremely happy.

(Message edited by nectar75 on March 04, 2003)

Wow, I had no idea I would get this much feed back when I started this thread. Thanks everyone, especially Dane for your honest opinions of your boats. This gives me a lot to think about. There is no perfect boat to fit everyones needs, and nobody wants to shell out 50 grand just to be disappointed down the road when the boat dosen't live up to your expectations. I'll let you know what I purchased in a few weeks after test driving each one.

You will not be disappointed either way. All three of these boats are great boats. The only disappointing option is not having a boat!

Rony, did they change the ballast on the the 2001/2002/2003 X-Star/X2?? I know you can fill them while idling, but can you fill them at 15 to 20mph? I'm pretty sure the intake holes for the ballast are on the transom which makes filling them at any speed over idling impossible or at any rate very, very slow.

The Super Air ballast filled all 3 hard tanks in under 40 seconds while going 20mph, and while parked at the dock they filled in 2 minutes 30 seconds.

The so called "big 3" boats are all great boats and it will come down to what you "the buyer" prefers.

Gramps,

Don't actually know for sure where the ballast scoop is on the X-2, will look at the show this week end. But I am fairly sure they are not on the transom.

It is great that the SAN fills superquick under way. What I consider not as great is that it also fills super quick under way when you don't want it too / ballast switch off, unless you close the seacocks. The boat will all the sudden keel over and a tank is half full. I guess that is the reason for the fancy, easy to get to under-dash seacocks though.

Don't actually know whether the X does that. Anyone? (Sales person told me no, but I guess will believe it after having tested that).

(Message edited by fbroen on March 05, 2003)

Fredrik, I'm pretty sure the intake for the X2 is on the transom, they just changed the pumps.

The "helm ballast" control is a MUST have on the SAN for the reason you mentioned above. The fill times are pretty sweet you have to admit, and just reaching underneath the dash to completely close the "seacock" valve isn't all that bad.

I guess I am basing my recollections on what is tecnically a pre-series "X-Series." Perhaps something got changed after that. Hopefully, I will be able to tell you for sure w/ in a few weeks...

Gramps may be right about the intakes for the X-2 ballast but the pumps were really cool! They really pump some water! When they were emptying, the water was shooting out of the drain holes like fire hoses. I don't know how durable they would be with the impellar set up but they certainly pump quickly.

The boats are all well made but do you research before you get into a boat. It's a large investment and you want to be stoked about your choice. The Supra series including the SSV is definately a boat you should research a bit. If you would like some info on the Supra boats give me a shout and I'll send you some info or answer any questions you may have.

Brett Watson
Club Royale Marina
(248) 681-9100 or ClubRoyale@ClubRoyale.net

This thread is very informative and I thank all who have contributed to it.

I’ll try to stick to the facts rather than my opinions with a few exceptions….

Our Boat: 2002 SANTE w/ 330 HP PCM Excalibur engine
Our Dealer: Hammer’s Ski & Marine in Petaluma, CA
Our Home: Kailua, HI (Island of Oahu)
Number of Wakeboard Boat Dealers on Oahu: Zero

We have put 287.4 engine hours on the boat in salt water in less than 8 months.

One of the main reasons we bought the CC was their reputation for customer service and the 5 year “bumper to bumper” warranty.

West Coast Correct Craft has given us excellent service for both warranty and non-warranty issues.

Due to no dealers in Hawaii I get to do all our corrective and scheduled maintenance.

Here is a condensed list of the problems we’ve had to solve….

1. Bad oil pressure switch which caused the engine to erroneously go into the “limp” mode. WCCC helped me troubleshoot and fix the problem. Turns out this is a common problem with the Excalibur engine. They sent us an “upgraded” part.
2. Intermittent bad connector on the #8 cylinder fuel injector. Took a few weeks for me to figure out the problem. WCCC got the part to me in one day! Note: had to come from PCM on the East Coast to Hawaii.
3. Replaced the gaskets between the exhaust manifolds and the risers. WCCC got the parts to me in two days.
4. Replaced the prop due to one of those OOPS! WCCC got the new prop to us in two days.
5. The heater core has failed twice now despite the fact that we flush our engine after each use with water and Salt Away. I suspect the piping in the heater core is not designed for salt water use. Not sure what to do since the first heater lasted about 6 months and the second heater lasted about one and half months. Hammer’s Ski and Marine got us the parts in about a week to replace the first failure. Haven’t replaced the second one yet.
6. Replaced the blower. Hammer’s Ski and Marine got us the part in about a week.
7. Replaced Clarion head unit. Took Hammer’s Ski and Marine about a month to get us the part.
8. Replaced the PP servo motor. PP got us the replacement part in two days.
9. Replaced switches on the transom for opening the rear stowage lockers. Hammer’s Ski and Marine got me the parts in about a week.
10. The brackets at each end of the hydraulic pistons on the observer’s seat, the rear stowage locker, and the engine cover started breaking. Rather than replacing them with another under-engineered part my buddy and I welded them back together making them much more “beefy”.

Here is the opinion portion of my post….

1. Correct Craft has always given us excellent customer service.
2. The SANTE has a great wake. Note: A great wake is a very subjective term. Make sure you test drive/ride each boat so you can decide for yourself.
3. The SANTE is easy to drive well.

Sorry for the long post.

Just curious on a couple of things.
One: WHY do you need a heater in Hawaii? I would bypass it!
2 Why are you having all of the engine problems?? Something with the salt? I skied with a guy in Oahu in February and he wasn't having those problems with a 2001.
Just kind of curious is all.

dholio,

1. Since I live in Hawaii I shopped around at many of the CC dealers up and down the West Coast. I bought a boat off the lot because it was a great deal in my opinion. The boat already had a heater in it so I didn't ask them to take it out. Water runs through the heater core whenever the boat is running. Nothing I can do about that except remove the inlet and outlet hoses from the heater and join them together so it bypasses the heater core. Also my wife and many others enjoy the heater in the evenings since we almost always ride til dark. Not everybody can be a tough guy. Sorry we don't meet your standards.

2. We have had three engine problems in 7 months. During those 7 months we put 287.4 engine hours on the boat in salt water. I don't know your experience with salt water but it is definitely harsh on boats and their engines. The oil pressure switch problem was common to the Excalibur engine. PCM has since changed to a new part. West Coast Correct Craft didn't think it was strange that after 287 engine hours in salt water the gaskets between the risers and exhaust manifolds needed to be changed. This is an easy job and not unusual that it needed to be done on a boat used in saltwater. The bad connector on the fuel injector was a bad crimp or solder job inside the connector itself. There was no corrosion on the connector at all.

Who did you ski with in February? We are members of the local ski club and I sure we know him. How often does he use his boat? When you say 2001 I assume you mean a model 2001 not the year 2001. If so I'm sure he has done quite a bit of maintenance over the years or else the boat wouldn't be running.

"Joe, did you experience the significant rider-steer differences that I have experienced between the BU and the CC?"

I didn't notice the boat sway from the rider cutting out. I'm not sure if it's because the riders I pulled behind Henry's VLX didn't cut super hard or what, but I didn't have to adjust and re-adjust.

Dane, I think you should give the new VLX a shot. The wake is much better than past VLX, gas consumption was improved dramatically (unless you weigh it down like Rod does ), and the interior's like the Cadillac of boats. We'll hook up with Henry and you can check it out for yourself. I know you're still recovering from an injury, but you can still see the difference...with and without the Wedge. (once I come back down...or you can hook up with him w/o me!)

Peter, I've never experience the cavitation that you spoke of riding in Doubleup's X-Star.

Rod, yes, I said the VLX wake is steep. The second generation Wedge helped to create the steepness. By the way, take some weight out!!! I'm thinkin' that would help the difficulty in handling and saving a bit of gas!

Hey um..... I think that the Nautiques are far better than Malibu but thats preference! The whole Wedge thing to me is kind of weird! I think what you need to do is Ride behind all of them and decide which wake you like the best! Im picking up my Navy and Orange Air Nautique 210 Team its Basically the Super Air they just changed the names around. I also thinks what makes a boat so good is the service t gives you and the service you recieve from the dealer! Keep it in Mind! I love Nautiques this is my 3rd one!

CHRIS

Hey um..... I think that the Nautiques are far better than Malibu but thats preference! The whole Wedge thing to me is kind of weird! I think what you need to do is Ride behind all of them and decide which wake you like the best! Im picking up my Navy and Orange Air Nautique 210 Team its Basically the Super Air they just changed the names around. I also think what makes a boat so good is the service t gives you and the service you recieve from the dealer! Keep it in Mind! I love Nautiques this is my 3rd one!

CHRIS

Chris, You registered today so you could tell us that? They are all nice boats, to me it's how you intend to use them that the suttle diferences make one more apealing than the other.

After a lot of thought I finally ordered a 210 team today. Wow that really hurt! I know any of these three boats would have been great, but after seeing Gramps' boat I couldn't resist. Thanks to everyone for all of the eye opening advice and insight to each boat. It's going to be a long 8 week wait, but I figured if I'm going to spend this much I might as well get exactly what I want instead of taking something off of the floor.

Congratulations! That is what I chose too. It was a tough decision, there are quite a few nice wakeboard boats now. The SAN, VLX, 22V, X2, SSV, B52, Cal-Air Pro V. It basically came down to the SAN and VLX. I have been waiting 7 weeks now, but I didn't make the April shipments. At least it is to cold to ride here still.

Sam C, where in Illinois are you? I'd like to see your boat when you get it if you ride in Northern Illinois.

John, Central IL. Decatur, Clinton, Shelbyville

Sam and Tom congrats on the new boats! We took ours out today for it's first pulls, you will not be disappointed!

Hope your wait is a short one, we ordered ours on January 29th and picked it up April 5th.

•••• it, i'm gettin a barefoot warrior and an innertube,or just have fun and not worry about all the handicaps but rather ride the same way i started,a stock center pole and a blk/red hyperlite honeycomb.And still pull off the big air and grabs over ur tweeking this and shifting that and throwing people out or beggin phat chicks to get on board and sit still.Yeah.......

Im gonna throw a cent and a half in here.

Ive spent quite a bit of time behind the x-2, super air, and (my boat) wakesetter..

All the wakes are great, I can have fun w/ any of them. no complaints, i Like the wakesetter best cause its easier for me to take stuff into the flats. The nautique throws you straight up, witch is awesome, but for me it always puts me wake to wake. I felt the x2 was kinda rite in the middle.

Driving i cant stand how nautique goes to the left, im sure i would if i got used to it, but it makes no sence to me

the one thing I never hear people comment about the nautiques. That i absolutley love.

the windsheild. when driving or observing you have that lil window, that is the coolest feeling coming from behinf the wrap around on the vlx

Get an MB Sport B52 and forget about it!