Phil Soven Vs. Everyone else

I was watching the Tige Pro am and they interviewed PS, his attitude was something to the effect "nobody remembers 2nd place". Now in most of the inviews I've seen on TV and in articles, most all riders attitudes are "it's just great to be riding with everyone" or "We're having a good time" and winning is just iceing on the cake. It's seems to me that PS's attitude (which there's nothing wrong with)about if your not winning, then your loosing, just doens't fit the Wakeboarding attitude of going out, having fun, and hanging with the guys. I guess my real question is, Is Phil really liked on the tour or just respected because of his skills?

alright, this should get good....

^^^ I second that. I'm gonna put on some goggles cuz the mud's about to start flying....lol

My opinion: You definitely have to respect Soven for his skills, his tech tricks are just mind blowing. However, in the interviews I have read of his for example the newest one in Wakeboarding Magazine, it definitely seems like winning is his only priority, which i guess is his perogative. And heck, who doesnt like to win? But I'd agree that is slightly different than what the consensus attitude seems to be on the tour as mentioned above of just chilin' havin fun with your bros and riding.

Nothing wrong with wanting to win and that being your goal when you do something. Personally not my style, but it works for some.
If a football player were to say.."ehhh, I'm not driven to win the Superbowl, I just want to have fun..". I don't think that would fly.

^^ Oh no lie! In it to win it for sure, just seems like quite a few of the guys there are alot more chill when it comes to that stuff.

Good attitude to have for a comp rider, why go to a comp and not ride to WIN?
I respect him for how hard he works and for how bad he wants to win, thats what makes a champion, the drive to dominate every comp you ride in and not settle for anything but first place.
Everyone is different but it is working for him, he dominated the entire 07 season.

Geeze the hits just keep coming for this guy.

Just about any coach in sports at the higher ranks wants people with fiercely competitive attitudes. The pro tournaments are set up just to see who is the best and whats wrong with wanting to be the best? Yeah that attitude wouldn't work for most of weekend warriors who are into it for the good times and thrills.

People adore the likes of Lance Armstrong and he def. had a winner takes all attitude throughout his career. Lance was one cocky mofo at the start of his career yet people admired him when he dropped the hammer on everyone else. I think Phillip may need to package or present himself a little better but part of me admires people like him who strive to be the best in their game.

Oh fersure. I dont think anybody's ran a season like Soven last year...maybe Shapiro or Parks? But I'd go out on a limb here and say that that could possibly be the BEST SEASON EVER (Contest-wise anyway)

I believe Phillips attitude is exactly right for a competition rider that makes his living from winning competitions. He isnt really known as the big free rider doing videos all over the place. His job is to win for the sponsors.

to each his own, gotta respect him for being real, and his riding is amazing, but too much competition takes all of the fun out of it...but thats just me

I agree that if your riding in competitions, you would go to win, but my point is that the way he presents himself is not consistant with the attitude most wakeboarders have. How many guys do you know wearing a dog tag saying "nobody remembers 2nd place". Actually, I think wakeboarding is totally different, be it in a free ride or competitive ride I think people remember just more than 1st place.

down with tech! up with style!

Ding ding ding Fight.

I'm not arguing or slinging mud, but Phillip has brought this on himself. Sponsors refuse to work with him simply because of his attitude. He is very UNLIKED by sponsors and not just one its many. Inov8 u said how hard he practices, he rarely does. This neg outlook from people has been broughton by no one but him. Yes he is a GREAT comp rider but his attitude is even greater. Again not trying to throw mud just stressing that this negative perception is/was self created.

With his attitude how many kids want to ride his board? You hear about what a nice guy "insert name here" is and comments like "makes me want to go out and buy anything with his name on it" but you don't hear that about Soven. So what is he worth to his sponsors?

rarely practices? really? I've heard the opposite. How can you be that good without practicing a ton? He obviously has a ton of nature talent, but all of the top pros do. I would think practice is what gets you over the hump. I'm personally not a fan, but I was at the World's and he dominated everyone. It wasn't even close. You could tell he was taking it after his first run.

Right on Andy. Tweaked n' Lofty all day every day.

Not defending Froggy as I'm not a huge fan from what I've seen both on the water and off (which is obviously limited), but we'll see what happens in the years to come. There was once a guy named Darin Shapiro who absolutely dominated contests, appeared fairly arrogant in interviews in cheesey white sunglasses (deservedly so, he could win without throwing mobius's, they weren't needed), was bashed for not having style and "training", and generally was the Top Dawg on TV that most people "into" the "core" of the sport seemed to want to tear down in favor Byerly, Gator, etc.

Then, along the way, Shapiro seemed to lighten up, not take the contests as seriously, focus more on style and freeriding, and reinvent himself in the mind of those "into" the sport. So much so that I recently read a sweet post about everyone talking about how sick Shapiro is and deservedly so given his intensity/ability. Give Soven some time to come to that stage as he clearly has that type of talent. No one likes #1...especially because you have to be sort of a robot to be #1 in a sport like wakeboarding that punishes falls (see Shaun White, snowboarding)....

Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous how many threads we've had lately trying to tear down a guy that's on top of his game more than any rider in wakeboarding history. Maybe having an attitude like that is part of what makes him so good. Like it was said above, if you're not there to do whatever you can to win, then why bother. A professional wakeboard comp is not the place to "chill and hang with the guys on the boat." It's a place where you do your job to earn your paycheck and represent your sponsors.

I don't know Phillip personally, but what he's accomplished on the water is nothing short of amazing and is unprecedented in our sport and probably most others! To question the manner in which he does it seems very odd to me.

Good Question scott, How many people on WW ride a ps3?? I dont think i have ever seen someone riding one. He cant be that great for the sponsors. Maybe the branding from the podium pics?

clearly I will have to join the tour, win every event so he gets second at every event, then maybe he'll change his mind

Agreed on that one Dave. Phil's name probably comes up on here in threads more than any other. I kinda look at it as everybody's got their own niche, and i cant knock him for his.

Come on Dave, it's not unprecedented, Shapiro was doing it way back in the day, and most people were saying the same stuff about him. There just wasn't a forum like this to voice your opinion!

I think that Phil is one of the best contest riders around and maybe someday he will be as good as Shapiro was at contests. I am sure over time things will start to slow down and he will learn to chill out and have fun. Just like Shapiro did later in his career.

Don't bag on the guy just because he wants to win!! Heck if you are going to bag on him, doe it because he ride, for LF...Just kidding

Later

i think this is whats great ab our sport...there's something for everyone...he wants to dominate the comp circuits then by all means do what you do and win as much as possible...why do people have to hate on him...whether he's worked his As$ of or not who cares...i admire him because of that...it just comes naturally to him...all i can say is if i had to put together a team of wakeboarders to win a competition my first pick would be PS hands down...i'd take him and his attitude...

I don't know why people bag on Philip. He is probably the best contest rider, ever. And to those who say he doesn't have much style, you must be blind.

time to bust out the old phrase..Different Strokes for different Folks... i like seeing and doing lofty, tweaked, laid out stuff. Thats just what i like so watch and do. Phil has taken and adapted his style of riding and how he prepares to get done what he aims to get done. seems to me that he's done a great job of it.

Philip can and does do that lofty, tweaked, laid out stuff, when he is out free riding. I know people who have ridden with him that say he is in such contol, he can do any style he wants. The kind of riding he prefers is the kind that wins contests.

The guys with attitude of going out, having fun, and hanging with the guys, know they can't win. The guys that have the ability to win a contest think just like Soven, they just don't come out and say it.

Reminds me of Tiger Woods comments when he was first coming onto the tour. Don't see people bagging on him or questioning his abilities much anymore.

Free riding is great, but it has no place in competition. I don't like the attitude of he tried to go bigger, or he tried a more difficult move. If you land it, you score it. If you fall or fail trying a move, you get nadda. That why it's called competition.

As long as Soven stays focused and healthy, he is going to dominate the general population of pros with less commitment to winning wakeboarding comps.

Why be like every one else?
I think that the sport of wake boarding was founded by guys that wanted to do something different on the water. Who knows he might already think that he has a lack luster style of riding so if he dominates contest then he will still be re noun as a icon in the sport of wake boarding. Egos play a big part in competitive sports. If you can't be the best all around rider then at least you can be the #1 comp rider and still get your ego boost.

(Message edited by whitie on November 10, 2007)

I've been interested in seeing his part in the Truth, i heard it was pretty good.

style is such a broad term i think. and really, style is what you make of it. some people will say that style is only about going big and tweaking grabs and what not. others may think that their style is stomping difficult tricks, like soven. so in one way soven's style is doing technical tricks.

As for attitude... i have been on many high competitive teams and leagues in different sports. when its game time its game time. the only goal you have is #1. Soven is a professional athlete and for him to go into contests with a laid back approach of "we'll see what happens" is not fair to himself, sponsors, or fans. People want to see and demand the best in everything, not mediocrisy(?). }

I would say that in PRO COMPETITIONS fun is a reflection after/about riding and the enjoyment of festivities that go along with comps.

however i also think that free riding should not have the same attitude. free riding is all about good times! not competing!

my 2 cents}

(Message edited by Jman on November 10, 2007)

IMHO syle IS TECH. Take a trick like a grabbed TS BS spin, thats pretty tech. But I agree, in general I would rather watch something with one less 180 if its grabbed.

I know a bunch of riders that can throw down behind the boat free riding, but when it comes to stomping that pass in a comp, just cant do it.
There is a lot of pressure riding for your Sponsor's and fans at a comp that some riders just cant get over. Not to say they are not great riders because some are very talented, bust just buckle under the pressure.
Soven is one of the best comp riders of all time, he can throw down under any circumstance and that's what puts him up on top of the podium. Weather you like him or not, you have to give him props for what he has done this year on the tour and at all comps he has rode in, he just threw down and dominated.

JJ, no one rider, not even Shapiro, has so dominated a competitive wakeboarding season like Phillip has done this year. Shapiro is still the greatest competitive wakeboarder of all time, but as far as single seasons go, Phillip owns that title.

To clarify- Attitude towards winning and what he does on the water is one thing and im sure every person on here if they had the season he did would truely have that attitude he takes and maybe deservingly so for a young 18 ish kid. Its the attitude off the water that is the problem that sponsors have no tolerance for ie photo shoots, appearances, and so on that has gotten him a bad rap. When a company spends or invests money for you, you dont show up hours late for a photo shoot and present a who cares attitude. it gives everyone in our sport a bad rap.

I think Jim has a good point, Nobody is saying Soven doesn't kick serious tail in comps and could be the best tech. wakeboarder of all time. I think from reading most of the posts the majority is saying the kid needs a major attitude adjustment. I look at riders like Murray, Ruck, Hansen ect...and they have both the skills and attitude that makes the sport what it is. I didn't even know Soven had a board, heck from pictures I think he rides Watson's bindings. What boat does he rep? Watson's board and bindings are the hottest selling combo in Metro Detroit. Even Shane's combo is selling hot. It's great to be on top and even better if people actually like you. I think Phil needs to look at the attitude and redesign!

It's almost comical in a way that people from detroit and ohio talk like they know the inside scoop on the industry. Who are you to say the sponsors hate him? Do you know this for a fact? If your so in with his sponsors, how do you not know he has a board? Give me a break, your just on here to add fuel to the fire...

I suggest to you Dave W. to add a thread just below non-wakeboarding discussion called "Rumors and Gossip". That way we can get back to wakeboarding...

if you're at a comp i say ride to win. if you are out with some friends on the lake just ride to have fun. just my two cents.

jay stomped that one. Why be in a comp, to lose!?

Wow... Normally I would pass on a topic like this but, lets all remember that P.S. In 18 years young.... Some athletes use the Mohammed ale mind frame "I am the greatest"... It comes across to most people as cocky.... But can't you see through that? If that is how we get everything on the water from P.S. let it be... No one is perfect... Give him some time, and cut him some slack....
Sincerely,
A recovering cocky pro waterskier/wakeboarder

this is probably the only subject i really feel strongly on, on this board. seriously, if you are in a competition, why would you not be in it to win it? F that noise, you better be in it to FRICKIN win it! Trust me. I understand that most of your competition is in it to probably be just your friends, and are actually the ones that are going to make you better as a wakeboarder in the long run, but seriously, if you are in a comp, whether it be frickin croquet in the back yard, or dibs on the king of the wake tourney....man if it's for a prize, you better go for the gold!

(Message edited by ironj32 on November 10, 2007)

granted i may be ruining the surprise but its awesome. and i would recommend actually getting the truth. support the wakeboard community

ben, check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXAvfrIbBpE and while youre at it check out lymans section

My favorite section ^^^ too bad youtube compresses it so much, really kills some of the slow motion with the high speed camera.

If any rider on our lake had 1/2 his style he would be the shiz around here.

Just in case someone actually thinks no WWers ride his board, I ride a PS3 and think it is a pretty good deck. Can't say that any particular pro influences what board I would choose though.

I've heard that PS does not work that hard. Also maybe the guys that "are a lot more chill about winning" are the guys that don't really believe they are going to win.The pressure is so much greater when you are on top and expected to win. More so for him because so many people want to see him get beaten.

I too ride the Ps3
I love it

PS3 here also..
tho I won't be riding it for awhile as I am on the USS Harry S Truman steaming to Iraq right now

Saw Soven's section from the Truth, he's got some sick tricks out just cruising around. Kenny, god bless, best of luck, come home safe buddy!

In the '06 season I had the good fortune to spend a lot of time with Phillip ( and his family)on and off the water. We became friends and had a couple of memorable adventures together. To those that know him, he can be shy and insecure, outgoing and extremely funny and also generous ( He gave me a board when I jokingly asked for one) ( I still ride that PS3 and love it!). When I needed something, or a place to stay, he and his family were most generous and overly accomadating.
Phillip is one of those rare people who is good at anything he puts his mind to, and this can definitly make some people jealous. I can definitly see the Tiger Woods comparisons. All I can say is lighten up people! Phillip is an unbelievable rider and person. I feel blessed to have had the unique opportunity to get to know him personally..and to have experienced one of the wackiest road trips I've ever been on with ( right Phillip?)

You go Bro!
And congrats on a fabulous season!

Mark

Kenny,

Good luck in Iraq, come back safe.

Hes a machine in contest, watching him ride at wakestock was nuts, crow5s and toe 9s like they were wake jumps for him. Hes dialed in and on point. I happened to be at the right bar at the right time in Toronto when i turned around and Shane Bonifay was standing beside me and then Soven walked over. We proceeded to have a few rounds of wobbley pops. Talking to both of them my attitude towards Soven changed and my respect increased. He was a regular kid and i say that becasue hes only still 18 and touring with guys that are mostly in there mid twentys. Hes not in the WBM top ten but i think in the next few yrs you will see that change.

I have a PS3....Its a strange board it pops like mad thought...

"If you aint first you're last!"
don't know how you spell (aint)

Rickey Bobby

That video is great. If TV would use slo-mo it would really make it so much cooler to watch especially for the non wakeboarding viewer. You really can appreciate how big and tech they go when it is slowed down. Really looks poetic.

Bottom line is that if Soven was ranked #10, none of these threads would exist. It doesn't matter if he's a jerk or the coolest guy on earth. We wouldn't see these threads. That just means there are a lot of haters that look for whatever they can find to tear down the current #1. Sad.

Darin, Jeremy, Phil,_______ (who's next)
remember this article? one of my all time favs.
http://www.stokecity.ca/jeremya2.htm

I dont know phillip personally and im sure he is a great guy but he comes across to me as being pretty cocky and when he claims first before he even goes out to ride makes me want him to fall a hell of alot. dont someone tell me there is nothing wrong with being positive...

yhea...great rider..hope the tude does change. Did not see him in the top ten favorite riders voted. And he should be right in there according to his talent. Dont compare football, basketball etc.etc. to wakeboarding. It is not the same at all. Everyone loves Murray, Malinoski, Harf, Friday etc.etc. mainly because of their tude. and your tude is part of your job. It sells product too. So hopefully he wises up like Shapiro and takes a different stance. Dont know the guy....but if cocky is what he presents...first impressions are lasting impressions. Keep up the great riding Phil..don't lose that.

For all of you saying Soven is the best tech rider, you are wrong. Watch Randy Harris, double grabbed bs 7's!

^^^damn straight dude, harris kills it, by far the best wakeboarder to ever hit the water, one of a kind man.

haters, lol
the bay
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

ive got to agree with josh on this one.
the bay
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


if any one has a bad attitude, its josh.

Harris is AWESOME!

The thing that surprises me about all this Soven talk is that Andrew Adkison isn't mentioned in the same way.

In interviews and things like that I get almost the same vibe from both of them, although it seems that whereas Adkison is well connected and rides with well-liked riders, Soven trains very privately with Shapiro and is more fierce and guarded about what he is working on. But I have to be honest - both of them come off almost equally arrogant (again having never met either and just going by post, and pre-run interviews and thus very well could be wrong). But there was a Adkison expose on Fuel called First Hand and there was nothing in the interview that changed my mind in the slightest. It was "dominate" this and "throw down" that and I found it all pretty offputting.

Humility goes a LONG way - thats why people like Murray, Schwenk, Harf, and Malinoski seem so sqeaky clean in terms of image.

(Message edited by juniorhawk on November 12, 2007)

Mike- thanks for the link. That was all before I knew anything about wakeboarding. Gives you a good perspective. I have always heard that the wakeboarders screwed up the tour themselves. That article showed that wakeboarding was pretty legit and getting tv time, cereal boxes etc. Then something happens and now wakeboarding is dissed by other action sports, no advertising and the tour is hurting.

This is how I am piecing it together. It seems something happened a few years back that derailed the sport from mainstream promotion. I know rec riding is still growing and more boards and boats are being sold but I am talking about the pro level.

Can someone explain it? I am curious. There are probably some personalities and organizations who are a big reason but I really don't know. Remember, a lot of us didn't even know there was a wakeworld.com until a couple of years ago.

There is no doubt the kid has some of the best skills in the sport, but... Once all the contests are over, the most memorable riders are the ones that give back to the sport, for example Murray, IMO. Soven has plenty of time on his hands to give back, so we'll see.

Another point that I would like to add is that although no one remembers second place in a contest is true, but IMO, he who has the most cash in the bank is always winning. The point being that the contest checks are big, but not that big. The sponsorship money is what athletes live, and hopefully able to retire, on, and we all know who which riders have the most/best sponsors and it's not PS.

BTW, whoever said he doesnt work that hard doesnt know what they are talking about, IMO.

Seems like most of you forget that he earns a living being on top of that podium. Do you guys make a living by showing up to your work and just dicking off instead of doing your job? Neither does he. I take pride in being very good at what I do, and so does he. Nothing wrong with that.

Of course, the fanatics just want their athletes to be these "canned-response" grateful robots. Eventually Phil will realize that you guys dont really give a rats ace about wakeboarders personally, and he will start giving the stupid canned responses you want to hear.

"Im just greatful to be given the opportunity to ride. I just want to do well for my sponosors and put on a fun show for the fans. I just want to have fun and stand up a run, and if things work out, I might finish well."

How is that?

Jason- I agree. I can't figure out these people who hate comp riding. If comps not your thing then don't do it. But why bash the competitors. I suck at comps too but I don't hate them. I think most people who bash comp riding are those who can't.

As far as free riding and all that. I like to watch but that gets boring after a while too. I like watching comps, especially the finals. I know there could be better formats but I still like them. I really enjoyed watching Rusty and PS go at this year. By the way. I was at the Texas stop and PS should have made it to finals there too. If is is close they always give it to someone else. In this case everyone clearly thought he beat Chad but everyone likes Chad a whole lot more.

Jason,

I think your missing the point. Do most riders give canned answers? The riders I have met, Murray, Shapiro, Nunn ect... I think they are real. Could be wrong though, but probably not.

If anyone thinks that each rider doesn't want to win every time, then your nuts, but the difference is how you present yourself. Doesn't matter if your a paper boy or a CEO.

I would have to agree that PS works hard to get to his level, but I think some people were referring to his recent interview about not working hard and getting beat in Texas.

Toby, I think Phillip was referring to the boat he is sitting on in the picture.

I don't think anyone should talk about someone else's attitude if you don't know them personally. How can you judge someone from an article or an interview?

"again having never met either and just going by post, and pre-run interviews and thus very well could be wrong"

Then why are you speculating? I've hung out with Andrew several times and even had dinner with him. He's the opposite of the rumors you spread with your post.

Let's talk FACTS and stop the mud slinging. Few of you know these people.

i think its weird when you look at other sports, take freestyle motocross for exsample. Everyone loves Pastrana. Hes has been on the top for along time (untill he recently stopped riding) but no one disliked him because he was always winning.

Here is Phillip's newest video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JMOh-cul6M

Jason- I agree. I can't figure out these people who hate comp riding. If comps not your thing then don't do it. But why bash the competitors. I suck at comps too but I don't hate them. I think most people who bash comp riding are those who can't.

As far as free riding and all that. I like to watch but that gets boring after a while too. I like watching comps, especially the finals. I know there could be better formats but I still like them. I really enjoyed watching Rusty and PS go at this year. By the way. I was at the Texas stop and PS should have made it to finals there too. If is is close they always give it to someone else. In this case everyone clearly thought he beat Chad but everyone likes Chad a whole lot more.

Lets have a celebrity/pro rider boxing match to settle this. My moneys on Rusty.

"I don't think anyone should talk about someone else's attitude if you don't know them personally. How can you judge someone from an article or an interview?"

J-Rod, I disagree with this because we are the fans. Our spending $$ is what drives this sport, just like all the other sports out there. As professional athletes, they are the representatives of our sport, and if they dont seem thankful that they are where they are because of us, the fans, then that is their fault not ours. We, as a collective group, indirectly pay for everything they do, they should at least be thankful for it...

and after that we'll have a wake world poster boxing match between myself and woreout.

My moneys on me!

Like someone said above, "different strokes for different folks". It's hard to judge someone without first hand knowledge, so I won't. Clearly claiming things can be a turnoff for some people, but instead of worrying about what some rider is doing you can ignore it. I see a lot of wakeboarding and somehow very little of Phil Soven.

In regards to Andrew, that is about as far from the truth as I've ever heard. Andrew is just kinda hyperactive, he's wound WAY up. He's also the coolest guy I've spoken too. Right in line with Murray IMO. Very appreciative of support and very involved with his fans.

Jason, that was great you only missed one little part. "Im just stoked to be here."

Toby,
The picture of Pillip was taken by Greg Weatherall before the finals in Acworth. He "posed" both Rusty and Phillip the same way but since Phillip won only his photo exists. Sometimes not knowing the whole story leads to false accusations and assumptions.

sound like a bunch of jealous whiners. So he does things differently than you would if you were in his shoes, but yet you're not in his shoes. Kids got talent, his choice what to do with it. I actually have mad respect for his competition skills. All those "stylish" riders don't even come close to Soven on consistency, and they can't do as much, so they have to tweak everything and complain about people doing tricks they can't. The wakeboard industry is a weird one, with all the judging being very biased, no one can really ever agree on 1 winner. If it wasn't their favorite rider, they come up with excuses, and start down-playing the champion. Wakeboarding is an individual sport anyway, so of course it would be individual vs everyone else (thread topic).