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Old     (Webb0024)      Join Date: Jul 2018       08-13-2018, 8:10 PM Reply   
So I have finally got good enough at wake-boarding to actually be able to injure myself (that is a sign you're progressing correct?). Getting out of the water and basic board control have become easy. I have slowly mastered the tiny one wake jumps landing in the middle of the wakes no problem.


Going wake to wake on the other hand is where things start to get painful. For whatever reason when I get a decent pop off the wake I panic in air and look down. Usually resulting in me dipping the front edge and face planting. Needless to say I feel like I have been in multiple car wrecks.


Three things I am going to try when I heal up and get some courage. Standing tall drill, try to control handle to lead hip, do my best to keep eyes on the boat while in air and more smaller jumps. Anyone care to offer any other tips I would appreciate it. Seems like I am learning the painful way but maybe its the only way I know how haha

I have some decent video I may upload to youtube sometime.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-14-2018, 7:31 AM Reply   
Lets start with the basic things that aren't about your actual jump.


How fast are you going and what rope length are you riding at.

I would start trying to clear the wake at 60' or shorter then work your way back to a longer rope. You need to be going 21 mph or faster. On a longer rope you need to be more like 22 to 23.5.
Old     (TimesNewRoman)      Join Date: Feb 2018       08-14-2018, 7:32 AM Reply   
thats the truth. Set up is key at this phase
Old     (Webb0024)      Join Date: Jul 2018       08-14-2018, 9:00 AM Reply   
I have a 65' rope. I also think its a ski/wakeboard rope so that may be one issue. Seems like I read I should get just a wakeboard only rope.

My last session I shortened the rope 8-10ft or so. That would put me around 55ft back.

My setup is far from ideal. This is my first boat and when I bought it I didnt know if I would even like wakeboarding so it wasnt bought with that sole purpose in mind. Its just an old 97' 18ft bayliner capri with a 4.3 merc in it. I did put a monster tower on it, and a 17 pitch prop. I also put 100lbs in the bow as its usually just me and my gf going. Which brings me to my next problem.

My gf has never pulled anyone behind a boat ever. She has actually gotten a lot better over our last few outings but to say the speed varies would be an understatement. The speedo isnt accurate but I do have an app on my phone that seems pretty accurate. Still its a lot to ask of the gf to drive the boat and watch an app on the phone and try to keep and eye on me all at the same time. Which I guess brings me to my next question.

Is what I am doing safety wise really stupid? If I get knocked out I am not sure my gf could get me back in the boat. Should I just wait on the w2w until I have enough people? I do have a mirror on the boat but I am about 175lb and my gf probably like 130 or so (complete guess too afraid to ask lol) but I have taken some pretty hard falls already trying to learn on my own and watching videos online.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-14-2018, 9:39 AM Reply   
I really don't think you'll get knock out on a wake to wake attempt in the 20 mph zone, but you never know.

My first boat was a Super Sport Nautique with no perfect pass and my girl friend at the time (wife for 8 years now) never driven a boat before. Just be PATIENT and tell her to pick a spot on the shore line in front of her and drive straight for it. It's really important that she's not making slow turn.

Then when you cut out for a jump it slows the boat down. So cut out and go straight for a second to let her and the boat correct the speed. Then cut in for your wake to wake. If it feels slow don't jump, you won't make it.

And no POWER TURNS when picking up a fallen rider. You'll piss off all the other wakeboards and ruin the smooth water for your self.
Old     (Webb0024)      Join Date: Jul 2018       08-14-2018, 1:01 PM Reply   
Thanks for the tip on the waiting a bit before cutting back in. I have probably been doing that out of fear at this point but good to know lol. She knows not to power turn so that is not an issue. In fact she has made vast improvements on the driving in a short amount of time. The speed can be an issue but I feel its pretty close to where I need it.


Back to the original question. Any tips on not freaking out and looking down while in air? I am sure Xanax would help but probably have some undesirable balance issues lol.

Should you keep your eyes on the boat while in air or out to the shore? I have yet to fully stand tall and get a real pop, would that help with the consistency? I feel that is partly the reason for the freak out is I never know what kind of pop I am going to get.


Also I have read that handle position is important and something I have not give any thought of until today. After reviewing the video it seems my handle is way down low almost at my knee. Would bringing that up to the lead hip help to stay on axis?
Old     (scooterinsk)      Join Date: Jul 2016       08-14-2018, 1:39 PM Reply   
I don't have cruise on my boat either but it holds speed well, I find it easier to have my wife just keep it at the same RPM (3400 on my boat). That keeps me in the 20-22 MPH range. Great tip from previous poster on picking a spot on opposite shore and focusing on that.

First thing I'd change is your rope. If you're loading the line properly a springy ski rope will pull you over the front right after you release and pop into the air. I used a buddies ski rope over the weekend and nearly took a huge fall because of that elastic rope...

As for your riding technique, focus on where you want to go. View your whole jump (approach, jump and landing) as a runway, don't focus on one specific point. There's some very good vids on youtube (learn wake and shaun murray specifically) that really helped me progress my riding.

Here's one posted on WW as well, little more advanced for back rolls, tantrums and spins but still great advice.

http://www.wakeworld.com/news/videos...-murray-5.html
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-14-2018, 2:44 PM Reply   
post up that video, That will help more than anything. We all started at some point
Old     (Webb0024)      Join Date: Jul 2018       08-14-2018, 4:53 PM Reply   
As embarrassing as it is I think this link will work. https://youtu.be/rZIwU5lkGv8



Will plan on getting a new rope asap.
Old     (razorjaw)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-14-2018, 8:14 PM Reply   
Pitching over is usually a sign of too much weight on your back foot, and not pushing off with your front. (ironically because the reason you put weight on your back foot is to avoid that happening.) try to keep balanced over your board and push off evenly with boat feet. You'll get there!
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-15-2018, 6:40 AM Reply   
Shorten your rope, eyes on the opposite wake, and commit. You are not committing here which is part of the the problem.
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       08-15-2018, 7:29 AM Reply   
That rope is like a bungee cord!
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-15-2018, 8:45 AM Reply   
Watch old Shaun Murray Detention series. That is the best way.

Other than that just work on (1) wake jumps. Go from inside the wake to out. You will quickly get out of the bad habits.

Also the rope is probably a key factor to the problem.

Good luck
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-15-2018, 10:35 AM Reply   
I usually bring people into 60 to learn clearing the wake
Old     (Bakes)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-15-2018, 12:47 PM Reply   
22-23 MPH with a ~60 foot rope length just learning W2W? Sounds like a good way to get beat to a pulp and break something. That kind of advice is why we have the surfing scourge.

Here is my recommendation for nearly pain free learning for middle aged folk who want to wake board and not get the beat down. Bring the speed down....way down. 16-18 MPH is about right. Now shorten that rope up...a lot. I’m talking about 30-35 feet. You should be just behind the rooster tail. Now instead on having to send it and pray without any air skills, you can practice getting a little air and then landing on the other side of the wake. Repeat that about 20 wake to wake jumps then increase rope length about a foot or two. Gradually increase the rope length and speed. Consider getting a bigger board (Nomad 150 or 160, Ronix funboard, etc.) to compensate for the lower speeds.

You should have several hundred solid W2W at shorter lengths and speeds before you gradually progress to the 22 MPH at 60 feet recommendation. Yes, I’m sure the dudes recommending 22mph @ 60feet used it successfully for young, athletic buddies. If your just a middle aged dude looking for some simple W2W, start slow and progress slowly.
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       08-15-2018, 4:26 PM Reply   
I'll offer a little more advice. Get a perfect pass and install it on your boat. I don't care if your significant other is the best driver in the world, there is no way to hold the boat at a constant speed without a perfect pass. The consistent speed alone will help you massively. The advice above about a shorter rope and slower speed is spot on. You already know you need to stand tall, do that. Also, approach the wake more slowly. In other words don't take a big cut and fly fast at the wake. That will simply send you out of control and actually causes you to lose speed as you get to the wake. You want a progressive cut - but don't pause in between cutting out and back in. It should be one fluid movement. For sure get a wakeboard rope. A Ski rope is going to completely throw you off as the rope stretches. You need a good non-stretch rope. I've always used spectra ropes.
Old     (Webb0024)      Join Date: Jul 2018       08-15-2018, 7:11 PM Reply   
I really appreciate the advice and encouragement. I think Bakes is spot on. I consider myself athletic but at 33yrs old I sure as hell dont heal up like I use to. I am currently on day four of the whiplash neck thing. Going to get a new rope soon. Was looking at the ronix combo 3.0. $110 seems a little high but if it will last a couple seasons should be fine. Also going to slow it down and bring it in. I would like to have a perfect pass but I feel I have already sunk enough money into the boat for this year. Something to consider for the off season though.
Old     (Bakes)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-16-2018, 12:06 AM Reply   
Yeah...perfect pass (AKA the Marriage Saver) saves a lot of anguish. Especially with a rookie driver. I’m not sure you can even do perfect pass on yours. Seems like others had issues doing something similar.

You don’t need a $110 coated rope. Any old non stretch will do..especially at shorter line lengths. That money is better spent on a big, fat cruiser board IMO. Look up the way to tie off a line at any length so you’re not stuck with the prefabbed loop lengths or ruining your rope with some random knot. Also, splicing in an end loop onto braided lines is a piece of cake as well. YouTube is your friend for both of those. I would do a 45 foot line. First time out, take about 10 feet off or so and see where that puts you.

Then spend some serious time learning to drive smoothly. Depending on the dynamic between you and your GF, that could be fun or that could be absolute unmitigated hell. Perfect pass truely is the marriage saver. Regardless, a good driver makes a huge difference. For your setup, I’d recommend finding the magic RPM rather than trying to focus on the speedo. Also, she is probably going to need a solid 30-90 seconds to get the boat speed stable.

Anyways, spend as much time as you can out there and enjoy. Look into perfect pass for your setup and sell your firstborn if needed to get it.
Old     (Webb0024)      Join Date: Jul 2018       08-16-2018, 1:10 PM Reply   
My main problem with getting perfect pass is sinking too much into this boat. I was hesitant to put $1600 in the tower but I am glad I did. I only gave $3500 for the whole boat a year ago. I had never owned a boat and didn't know how much I would enjoy it. Part of me wants to quit putting money into it and sell it so I can put more money into an actual wake boat. So many different toys I want to buy while also playing the stocks haha. I appreciate all the advice. I have literally started at ground zero never owned a boat to ALMOST =[ going wake to wake in one year so I guess that's not too bad.
Old     (MystiikVLX)      Join Date: Jul 2014       08-17-2018, 5:13 AM Reply   
Check out some of the Learnwake videos. Good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCn...146vhGItS0XmQQ
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-23-2018, 10:08 AM Reply   
need better air awareness. jumping the wake a bunch will help, or you can do some tramp training to get the hang of feeling like you're 15 feet up in the air about to break something.
Old     (thejean)      Join Date: Aug 2018       08-23-2018, 10:54 AM Reply   
I managed to go w2w HS last weekend on my fourth time wakeboarding ever. Took a few spills but not too many. Iím 43 years old as well. I have a G23 which obviously helps as well. My setup was a 50í at 20 mph. Hereís the video if itís helps. Iíve watched a ton of videos and I know I need to a better job of standing tall to get pop.

https://youtu.be/ygijiFP1CjI
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-23-2018, 11:02 AM Reply   
nice job!
Old     (Webb0024)      Join Date: Jul 2018       08-24-2018, 10:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejean View Post
I managed to go w2w HS last weekend on my fourth time wakeboarding ever. Took a few spills but not too many. Iím 43 years old as well. I have a G23 which obviously helps as well. My setup was a 50í at 20 mph. Hereís the video if itís helps. Iíve watched a ton of videos and I know I need to a better job of standing tall to get pop.

https://youtu.be/ygijiFP1CjI
That is at 50'? I guess the camera is zoomed in and that wake is bad ass? It looks like you are almost in the rooster tail. Also are you wearing a helmet? If so, what are your thoughts? I have read mixed reviews on wearing a helmet.
Old     (thejean)      Join Date: Aug 2018       08-24-2018, 11:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webb0024 View Post
That is at 50'? I guess the camera is zoomed in and that wake is bad ass? It looks like you are almost in the rooster tail. Also are you wearing a helmet? If so, what are your thoughts? I have read mixed reviews on wearing a helmet.


Yeah 50í. Itís a big wake. That was no ballast, 20 mph.

Helmet is great. Took a couple of decent falls and no issues. On one of them Iím sure I would have blown out my ear drums had I not had the side ear pieces.
Old     (thejean)      Join Date: Aug 2018       08-27-2018, 10:31 AM Reply   
Tried again yesterday. Tried pausing more before cutting back towards the wake on my heel side. Couldnít generate enough speed. Dead spot as I turned... was in seated position. Rope low. Water was calm. Tried to stand tall but just not enough speed. Hit the top of the opposite wake every time. Ugh.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-27-2018, 11:57 AM Reply   
How long of a rope and speed?
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       08-27-2018, 12:13 PM Reply   
remember to make a progressive cut into the wake. In your video, it looks like you start to make a progressive cut then you suddenly turn in a lot sharper to get more speed. Problem with this approach is you slow down as you approach the wake. You want to achieve max speed just before or at the wake. I also think you are putting too much effort into it. You are squatting down as you turn and cut in and trying to stand up more as you get to the wake. I don't do any of this. I pretty much stand tall going out, during the transition, cutting in, and finally going over the wake. Stay tall the whole time and make a slow progressive cut in. You'll likely be shocked at how much higher and farther you go with less overall effort. You'll keep your balance better too if you just take it easy. Right now you are throwing your weight in all different directions and trying to correct it as you hit the wake. That is in addition to cutting in too abruptly. You need a progressive cut. my 2 cents. I'm not an expert by any means but I have been wakeboarding for 20 years.
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       08-27-2018, 12:17 PM Reply   
Here is a great video from Murray. Watch this. he has great on water examples starting about 3:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDi6N8F4yQA
Old     (thejean)      Join Date: Aug 2018       08-27-2018, 12:25 PM Reply   
Thanks tre!
Old     (DeanSmith)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-30-2018, 12:32 AM Reply   
hey mate,
An easy to make sure your handle is in, is to pin your shoulders into you chest. If your shoulders are pinned, you cant possibly let the handle out as it forces your arms to be bent. It also keeps you in the strongest body position.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-30-2018, 6:21 AM Reply   
Dean what do you mean "pin your shoulders to your chest"

Hold them back?
Old     (dukeno1)      Join Date: May 2006       09-02-2018, 1:05 PM Reply   
Hey

I will try to throw in my two cents. For one thing the advice about the shorter rope is great. I learned on a long rope and took a lot of hard unnecessary falls. Don't be afraid to run about 55 ft and get a feel for getting across. I was having a hard time clearing my toe side w2w's and used this method. It felt great to actually clear with ease with the shorter rope.
The progressive edge that you hear about is so important. Took me a while to grasp the concept. You want to cut out away from the boat on a solid edge and then flatten out and begin to coast. The boat will begin to pull you back towards the wake...at this point I start drifting back in gradually building edge.You need to lean back against the rope and use the line tension. As I get to about 10-15 feet away from wake I am really edging and accelerating . Keep your legs stiff as you hit the wake and you will pop right up and the line tension you have built will slingshot you right across to the other side. It is crazy how easy it is but as someone else said you have to commit. If you come off your edge as you get to the wake you won't make it most likely and are probably going to take a hard landing or fall. When I first learned we had no idea and we would get across by just going balls to the wall. When we did make it we were probably all of 1-2 ft off the water lol and moving like a meteor. All of that speed coming in to the wake would scare me and more often than not cause me to come off edge right at the wake. The progressive edge is much easier...way more pop, and you don't have to hit the wake at 55mph...lol
Good luck and definitely get a non stretch rope...ski rope will kill you haha
Old     (thejean)      Join Date: Aug 2018       09-02-2018, 4:10 PM Reply   
Awesome advice!! Thanks for taking the time to post!
Old     (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       09-09-2018, 9:26 AM Reply   
Learn wake is an awesome video series for sure! We’ve always tried to teach people to look the direction you want to go “look down fall down”. It’s ok to spot your landings but look the direction you’re traveling. Shorter rope and correct speed always help like the suggested. Also you asked if it was safe with just your GF. Do you not have a third or spotter? Safety is always key. Find a third on this site helps connect riders in your area and riding with other motivated Wakeboarders will push your progression. #passthehandle

Hahn
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-11-2018, 7:46 AM Reply   
How does a helmet protect you riding boat?
Old     (thejean)      Join Date: Aug 2018       09-11-2018, 12:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
How does a helmet protect you riding boat?


Concussions and blown ear drums. Or so Iím told.

There is a possibility of pretzeling and smacking your head with the board as well but Iím not sure thatís a real risk.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-12-2018, 7:47 AM Reply   
Blown ear drums, yes if you have ear protectors.

Concussions I totally disagree. more surface area on your head means its going to stop faster when it hits the water. Plus the added swing weight may contribute more to whiplash. Just a theory, never tested it.
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       09-12-2018, 9:42 AM Reply   
Blown ear drum is the big one. I never thought it could happen until it did. Now I use docs pro plugs. They came highly recommended and I am 100% sure they have prevented at least 2 more blown eardrums for me. If you fall on your side and the side of your head smacks the water, your ear drum blows. When it happened to me, I knew my ear drum was blown as soon as I stuck my head out of the water because I had no hearing in my left ear. I went to the doctor a couple days later and it took about 3-4 weeks to get my hearing back. I've used docs pro plugs ever since. I use size large (I'm about 6' tall). They are 100% worth the investment. You want the vented kind with the leash: https://www.proplugs.com/c-76-vented-w-leash.aspx
Old     (thejean)      Join Date: Aug 2018       09-12-2018, 10:23 AM Reply   
So no one has ever smoked their head with the board?
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       09-12-2018, 11:54 AM Reply   
I have not. Never wear a helmet. I've never ridden with anyone who wore a helmet and have never heard of that. Maybe someone else can share their experience.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-12-2018, 12:06 PM Reply   
I have never hit my head on my board.
Old     (Kurzinator)      Join Date: Aug 2017       09-12-2018, 1:03 PM Reply   
I think guys who ride cable a lot are more comfortable wearing a helmet.

I am a long time boat rider and never wear a helmet. I just recently started riding cable and I wear a helmet there. There are some guys there that ride cable almost exclusively, and when I invite them out behind the boat they will wear a helmet more out of habit than anything, but really I think it is more of a comfort thing.

I don't see anything wrong with wearing a helmet behind a boat. I've taken some pretty bad boat slams that probably would've been less intense if I was wearing a helmet I think. Like Steveo8290 mentioned; a helmet adds more surface area and might cause your head to slow down faster, but I see that as a good thing is you're going out the back door and whipping your head back whiplash style when you land or your back or something.

I think the difference would be negligible if you were coming down in a dive and landing head first. I don't think it would cause harm, but I do think it would lessen the impact of scalp-on-water if that bothers you.

IMO if it makes you feel safer to wear a helmet, wear it, because you'll likely progress a lot faster if you feel safer wearing gear.
Old     (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       09-13-2018, 3:04 PM Reply   
12 stitches right between the eyes... Board broke right where the binding bolt insert was. Boot, with my foot in it came off and the front of the board hit me in the face.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-13-2018, 3:11 PM Reply   
"Like Steveo8290 mentioned; a helmet adds more surface area and might cause your head to slow down faster"

The key word being "might". No one really has any data of the effects of a bare head against water surface tension vs helmet padding. IOW it's an eye rolling argument to say a helmet is more likely to cause a concussion. But a helmet will definitely help when your board scorpions the back of your head, or a direct impact to the ear if it has ear pads or ear coverage. Since I ride a cable 90% of the time I'm used to wearing a helmet. But I've never worn one when riding the boat. If anyone is thinking they should maybe wear a helmet behind the boat then I would say they should without reservation.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-13-2018, 3:52 PM Reply   
I would agree. If you want to wear a helmet, gloves, or whatever do what makes you happy. If you feel safer you will probably try more.
Old     (thejean)      Join Date: Aug 2018       09-13-2018, 4:07 PM Reply   
My buddy didnít have one on. Took a good face slam and then put it on and felt way safer. I think the sharp edge on the front of the helmet actually breaks the surface tension a bit, reducing the impact to your forehead. Mine also has ear pads which I am sure prevented a blown eardrum on at least one occasion.
Old     (bandit628)      Join Date: Feb 2016       09-14-2018, 6:16 AM Reply   
I wore a helmet for 3 years. Now I don't. I definitely agree it helps with ear drum protection. But i think it makes the whiplash worse on your neck from edge catches.
Old     (Webb0024)      Join Date: Jul 2018       09-14-2018, 9:39 AM Reply   
Wow my thread really took off. Thanks for all the comments guys. I have been too busy to get back to the lake but my courage is somewhat restored for now. The reason I hadn't wore a helmet is because of the whiplash. That seems to be the worst part of the nasty falls I have taken. I have never had any ear drum problems, I seem to take the brunt of the impact with my face haha. I am excited to try a new rope and shorter lengths to get w2w. Hopefully I get a couple runs in before the end of season.
Old     (Kurzinator)      Join Date: Aug 2017       09-14-2018, 11:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandit628 View Post
I wore a helmet for 3 years. Now I don't. I definitely agree it helps with ear drum protection. But i think it makes the whiplash worse on your neck from edge catches.
Interesting. That's what I was wondering about; the whiplash effect and how the helmet changes it for better or worse. Thanks.

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