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Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-18-2018, 7:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
I think he is referring to the 600k legal abortions per year. Run it though the xstarrider advanced maths calculator = 300m
Yeah, he puts a factorial behind every number to get the results he needs to make up his point.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-18-2018, 7:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker1234 View Post
Ten attackers, 29 dead. How many would be dead if they had AR15s instead of knives? How many would still be alive if the civilians were armed?
Who knows if anyone would have been saved by armed civilians. Armed civilians didn't save anyone's life in Las Vegas.
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       02-19-2018, 7:53 AM Reply   
I come onto these threads regularly and read with great interest. Often there is an honest open exchange of ideas - sadly more often the conversation deteriorates quickly into this side yelling at that side and that side insulting the other side. At that point people seem to be become entrenched in the if you don't agree with me your wrong and your stupid so end of cordial discussion.

I do not pretend to have any good ideas as to how to prevent or at least reduce the incidents of mass shootings. If we can't come together and agree after the senseless murder of our children in the place we want them to be at their most comfortable in order to get the education we all agree is the silver bullet to many many problems it seems as if there is no hope. We can't even come together and open dialogue.

My daughter had a friend killed in parkland and we spent Saturday at a funeral. My daughter is a senior in high school and is genuinely frightened on a day to basis. They have lock down drills regularly and had the swat team there this past Friday as there was a threat of a copycat and a report of person with a gun on campus. Her school is single point of entry with armed police officers. Just like parkland.

I don't know what to say to her when she asks me how can the government think this is ok? How can some people think more gun restriction is bad? Why won't we properly fund mental health programs we already have?

This has hit as close to home as it gets. My wife, sister and sister in law are teachers. One high school, one middle, one elementary - none of them want to be armed or have their colleagues armed regardless of the training. I know the argument is arm the ones that want to or a "select few". Teachers already have enough responsibility, pressure and undue blame placed upon them. They did not go into law enforcement they went into education as a profession.

My wife also suffers from mental illness - depression so clearly she would be disqualified. How many of your loved ones friends, colleagues suffer in silence form mental illness - more than you know or are willing to accept.

The other thing my daughter said that is really interesting to me is that that guy didn't do anything illegal until he entered the school and pulled the trigger - what are they (authorities) suppose to do arrest and jail people because we don't like how they think - now that's scary too
Old     (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-19-2018, 7:20 PM Reply   
Part of the problem may be that the police and school officials (teachers and administrators) cannot do what is needed, in some cases. because of the threat of lawsuits. It's a sad day when kids are afraid to attend school.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-19-2018, 9:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker1234 View Post
Part of the problem may be that the police and school officials (teachers and administrators) cannot do what is needed, in some cases. because of the threat of lawsuits. It's a sad day when kids are afraid to attend school.
what are you suggesting?
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-20-2018, 8:13 AM Reply   
Whiteflash - Thats for your side. I am a gun proponent and have often just recited to arm our teachers. I had not really considered they may not want to me or that they can only protect their own class. Like swat had mention, very few of us, even if trained will engage an active shooter when we are there to protect the group around us. While I think If I am in a theater when stuff happens and I will react, I doubt I would go chasing an armed man through to other theaters. I was not in the military and not a police man, I do not have the balls to do either. I don't want my children scared to go to school. If that moment comes where it is myself or my family verse a shooter, of course I am ready and trained, but thats where it ends I think. This is a terrible situation that is just inflamed by our media. I think that is big part of this issue. Its not guns or video games!
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-20-2018, 9:10 AM Reply   
I'm sure the "from my cold dead hands" people will freak out, but if I was a member of congress I would propose the following changes ASAP and let someone vote them down to have to take them blame when **** hits the fan again....

* Waiting period + background check on ALL gun sales. Private party (how this is tracked below), gun shows, stores, etc etc

* All fire-arms (except maybe muzzle loaders) registered via serial number. Rifles, shotguns, handguns, etc etc. A block-chain style log is kept of owners and what they own. When its time for me to sell my gun to John Doe we would both have to fill out a form that would 1.) background check John Doe and 2.) Confirm I have ownership of Gun Serial #123 .... the transfer happens after the check has been cleared. If I sell the gun and John Doe does NOT pass the check or we skipped the whole process, I can be charged as an accessory to any crime he may commit with that gun.

.... this registry would also help if a weapon is lost/stolen. I call the local police, say my house was robbed and Serial #123 is missing and maybe pay a small fine for "irresponsible gun ownership".... they now know that gun is out somewhere in the wrong hands. If that weapon is used in a crime at least I reported it stolen I'm off the hook as the prior owner, if it was NOT reported stolen ... accessory to whatever crime it was used in. This forces responsible ownership

... this registry also allows for folks who do something terrible to have their guns removed. As I understand most laws now if you have XYZ violent felony against you, you cannot buy a gun; but it does nothing for guns you previously owned. Now local police can take previously owned guns from someone who beats his wife after the purchase, or whatever crime

* Mandatory training required for gun purchase. Military service counts, hunter safety counts, conceal / carry classes count ... anyone purchasing a weapon should be able to prove the can safely control that weapon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

None of these rules should have a major effect "good" gun owners and would make it tougher for the wrong people to have guns.

Last edited by sidekicknicholas; 02-20-2018 at 9:12 AM.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-20-2018, 9:33 AM Reply   
A lot of that is already in place. When you buy a gun you are background checked(not sure about gun shows but that should be included) and the serial number is recorded with you as the owner. They do need to curb the person to person sales and force those through a dealer so more background checks can be done. Not sure why you wouldn't report a gun stolen unless you unlawfully had it. Felons cannot posses firearms legally either.
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       02-20-2018, 10:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42897626

This is NOT OK. Our government is doing nothing and we are working on 12 school shootings in the first month of 2018.

Who's gotta die before we start to give a crap about this!
3 shootings but who's counting right?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-20-2018, 10:35 AM Reply   
I'd say it's 7

https://www.snopes.com/2018/02/16/ho...tings-in-2018/
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-20-2018, 10:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
3 shootings but who's counting right?
Actually, its now 18 shootings on school grounds in 2018, but thanks to gun nuts there will be another half dozen in a months time and the NRA and GOP will do NOTHING to stop it.

http://www.king5.com/article/news/na.../507-518863102

Again, I honestly hope that the next kids killed belong to a Republican Senator so that they will actually want to do something. More kids will die, we all have to agree on that. It may as well be the kids of the people that are so bought by the NRA that they are letting this happen.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-20-2018, 10:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
12 school shootings in the first month of 2018.
Quote:
3 shootings but who's counting right?
Quote:
I'd say it's 7
...too many, its that simple... there have been to many.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-20-2018, 11:15 AM Reply   
Agreed!
Old     (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-20-2018, 11:24 AM Reply   
I'm not trying to open a "can of worms" here but inclusion, as an example of teachers having their hands tied, may not always be best for all students with or without disabilities as the ACLU proposes. The lady in the incident I've attached withdrew her child form school because the administrator did not know how to properly deal with the autistic child. In some cases, I think inclusion may be a step backward for kids with disabilities but schools are forced to place those children into regular classrooms because Federal law requires this. Any child struggling in school should be able to receive help but then the issue of labeling occurs so the student is forced to sit in a classroom that he/she may not be ready to attend. My friend's son is in school with a kid who throws chairs for no apparent reason and has sudden outbursts of violent rages, and the teacher is left with no other option than to have the students leave the room. After things calm down, from 40 minutes to 2 hours, he's placed right back into the classroom in a day or two I challenge you to visit a public school and talk to the teachers who are largely overburdened with paperwork and regulations.
Old     (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-20-2018, 11:25 AM Reply   
Sorry, I was responding to {what are you suggesting?} Forgot to post the web page https://www.aclu.org/impairing-educa...c-schools-html
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       02-20-2018, 11:38 AM Reply   
https://www.dailywire.com/news/27326...ign=benshapiro
This is a really great new. What do you have to loose.Concealed permits and the right to have it accessible. There are alot of good teachers out there.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       02-20-2018, 12:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
I can agree with that. The only issue with "mental health" is what, who determines the level of crazy? Here in CO if you get a MMJ card you can no longer get a conceal carry. I do agree the age limit needs to be raised. I would also suggest X amount of hours in fire arm training to get a permit. Would also give an instructor time working with the student to see what if anything stands out about that person & file a report or decline to pass them.
So at 18 you can serve in the military but can't buy a gun? Good luck with that one.

People kill. Always have, always will. They'll use a gun, a truck, an explosive, or whatever it takes.

Create all the gun laws you want. Good guys will have to give their guns up, and the criminals will keep them. Now you just have more soft targets that can't fight back and that's the problem today. Good people follow the laws and leave their guns at home and shooters know that no one can stop them.

I'm for armed guards at schools and armed school staff and more security. Right now, anyone can walk onto my kids middle school campus with a rifle and there are no gates or guards to stop them. Absolutely no security for the most precious and vulnerable people. No gun law will stop this.
Old     (prowake)      Join Date: Jul 2016       02-20-2018, 12:41 PM Reply   
ban gun free zones

mass shootings take place in gun free zones

interesting how libs call for gun control after shootings and don't call for border control/deportation when illegals rape and murder Americans
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-20-2018, 12:43 PM Reply   
Oh boy here comes White Pride prowake to defend the white supremacist shooter.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       02-20-2018, 12:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Oh boy here comes White Pride prowake to defend the white supremacist shooter.
Huh?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-20-2018, 12:51 PM Reply   
He changed his name - it used to be "White Pride (prowake)"
Old     (prowake)      Join Date: Jul 2016       02-20-2018, 1:19 PM Reply   
I defended the shooter? Really?

Also, it’s ok to be white
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-20-2018, 1:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
So at 18 you can serve in the military but can't buy a gun? Good luck with that one. .
At 18 you can't buy a beer but you can buy a gun? how does that make any sense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
People kill. Always have, always will. They'll use a gun, a truck, an explosive, or whatever it takes.
But nothing is as effective as a gun. Try to drive a trunk into an elementary school. You will be lucky to crush one or two people. Try to make a bomb in your garage, 50/50 chance you will blow yourself up. But get a gun point and shoot, my grandmother can do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Create all the gun laws you want. Good guys will have to give their guns up, and the criminals will keep them.
Create a buy back program for guns and criminals will sell their guns to buy crack. Most criminals aren't great long term planners as it turns out.

If you have to access a black market to buy guns it will be MUCH harder for the kind of mentally unstable people that shoot up the public to get one. If you act paranoid, people don't want to talk to you about illegal stuff. You can't just walk around the docks shouting "GUNs, I wanna buy some GUNS, Anyone got some guns"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Now you just have more soft targets that can't fight back and that's the problem today. Good people follow the laws and leave their guns at home and shooters know that no one can stop them.
This is such a pile of horse *****. All you gun owners think that your rambo but the reality is if there is a problem you run for the hills like everyone that isn't packing. The amount of bad guys with guns that are stopped by good guys with guns is statistically negligible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
I'm for armed guards at schools and armed school staff and more security. Right now, anyone can walk onto my kids middle school campus with a rifle and there are no gates or guards to stop them. Absolutely no security for the most precious and vulnerable people. No gun law will stop this.
Having traveled to Algeria, I can say for a fact that walking through dozens of metal detectors to get to a conference room does NOT make a person feel safer. You'd rather our kids go to school in a prison than not be able to play with the toys that make you think you have a bigger penis.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-20-2018, 2:00 PM Reply   
Oh and if I sound angry in my posts its because I F ing am. This crap is unacceptable and a bunch of gun toting hillbillies are keeping our kids in danger so they can keep their useless dangerous toys. Everyone should be pissed off about this. And if your not, then you must think that this is normal or OK and it is NOT.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-20-2018, 2:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Huh?
Just a couple of minutes searching pulled up these gems:
Attached Images
     
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-20-2018, 2:05 PM Reply   
...
Attached Images
   
Old     (prowake)      Join Date: Jul 2016       02-20-2018, 2:17 PM Reply   
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       02-20-2018, 4:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
At 18 you can't buy a beer but you can buy a gun? how does that make any sense?

-Okay change the law to 21. So now he has a change of heart and decides not to kill people? You think he can't get a gun because the gun shop won't sell him one?

But nothing is as effective as a gun. Try to drive a trunk into an elementary school. You will be lucky to crush one or two people. Try to make a bomb in your garage, 50/50 chance you will blow yourself up. But get a gun point and shoot, my grandmother can do that.

- Yeah? Every morning I drop off my child at school where hundreds of kids are crossing the street. And very recently, trucks have been used for mass murders. The kid decided he was going to kill people and existing laws didn't stop him. Do you think he would have respected the one that said he couldn't have a gun? To the point about your grandmother.....people need to be armed in schools.

Create a buy back program for guns and criminals will sell their guns to buy crack. Most criminals aren't great long term planners as it turns out.

-We've had many gun buy back programs. People are still getting murdered everyday so I guess you're theory is isn't a good one. Criminals don't give up their guns. Only naive people do, that believe that good people surrendering guns will somehow stop crime.

If you have to access a black market to buy guns it will be MUCH harder for the kind of mentally unstable people that shoot up the public to get one. If you act paranoid, people don't want to talk to you about illegal stuff. You can't just walk around the docks shouting "GUNs, I wanna buy some GUNS, Anyone got some guns"

-what? You're the emotional type aren't you?

This is such a pile of horse *****. All you gun owners think that your rambo but the reality is if there is a problem you run for the hills like everyone that isn't packing. The amount of bad guys with guns that are stopped by good guys with guns is statistically negligible.

-Do you have something to back this up or are you just being a dick? You won't see it on the main stream news but often, a good guy stops a crime legally with a gun, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Statistically, you're right...it doesn't happen enough. You know why? Because gun laws make it illegal to carry for most. There's your flawed logic, kid.

I live next to a school and if I heard shots I'd be there in seconds to help. I would give my life to stop a public slaying of children. I carry every day, I train nearly every weekend, and if something happened in my presence I would defend myself against a shooter which makes everyone in that public place safer as a result. You and your family included. This is absolutely asinine. You would be lucky to have someone carrying in your presence if something were to happen in a public place with you or your loved ones present. Tell me you'd prefer to have not a single good guy armed in the movie theater if you're there when a lunatic opens fire. Tell me you prefer to have not a single person in the room fighting back.

Having traveled to Algeria, I can say for a fact that walking through dozens of metal detectors to get to a conference room does NOT make a person feel safer. You'd rather our kids go to school in a prison than not be able to play with the toys that make you think you have a bigger penis.
-First of all, this is not Algeria. And second, I never suggested schools be like a prison. I'm suggesting having people armed at schools so that if something happens, people can respond and distract a shooter in seconds instead of minutes after the shooter has run out of ammo. Or better yet, someone sees a shooter trying to conceal something larger like a rifle. But if schools were locked down like a prison, I supposed having a child that lives to play with those toys is better than having a dead child.

I don't get the penis comment, but again I think you're probably the angry liberal type that gets emotional easily.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-20-2018, 4:11 PM Reply   
Gun control, armed guards isn't really addressing the problem, its just minimizing the damage. The big picture problem is the way we treat each other in society, financial inequality, and general unhappiness. These are much bigger problems and much harder to "solve" but we need to start thinking about them now to try and start moving in the right direction or things are going keep getting worse.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-20-2018, 4:21 PM Reply   
the school in Florida that just got shot up had an armed guard.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.3822777
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-20-2018, 7:55 PM Reply   
:-/

Old     (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       02-20-2018, 8:58 PM Reply   
Yeah but they sold him that to make' Merica safer, y'know!
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-20-2018, 9:02 PM Reply   
^^^yea so what’s ur point. A 13 year old buys a .22 Seems pretty normal to me. I guess some people he come from a culture where a kid with a .22 is evil. Sorry lots of people grew up with .22 and it was just a slightly bigger version of a BB gun. I guess it’s all “Time & place”. In the city yes a 13year old with a .22 is a Bad Idea. In the country a kid with a .22 well that’s pretty much the norm. So notice how in my example its not the gun that’s the problem, it’s where it’s being used and what kind of person is using it. The same example could be made for Dirt bikes. Dirt bikes are very common for kid in the country to have and they are not a problem. Bring that same dirt bike or ATV to Oakland and NOW ITS A PROBLEM. You guys ever seee the videos where hundreds of kids take over the streets with ATVs and Dirtbikes?
I guess we should ban ATVs and Dirt bikes now

.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-20-2018, 9:16 PM Reply   
You completely missed the point, Grant (not that that’s surprising).
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-20-2018, 10:07 PM Reply   
On the same day in Florida. Lol!
Attached Images
  
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-20-2018, 10:09 PM Reply   
And if there's anyone who knows about both pr0n and mental illness, it's a Florida republican politician.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-21-2018, 9:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
A 13 year old buys a .22 Seems pretty normal to me.
Jesus.

I grew up in rural Wisconsin, kids of any age can go hunting with an adult (and fire the weapon) even if they haven't hunter's safety .... so kids operating and being around fire-arms is normal here; but to say its normal for those kids to BUY a weapon is just stupid... that isn't normal and if that clip isn't wildly edited shows how ****ed up the current system is.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-21-2018, 9:41 AM Reply   
Nick gets it, Grant. I spent every summer in rural Texas handling guns and at younger than 13. The thought that I could have strolled in and BOUGHT one is absurd.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-21-2018, 10:57 AM Reply   
Ok I see your point a minor should not be able to buy a firearm by himself. I’m sure most parents (good ones) would not allow a 13 year old to buy a firearm at a gun show. My point that I’m sure you want to pass over. Is that the major reason we have all this gun violence is the break down in the family UNIT. Crazy’s get their hands on them and use them to kill. Just like when crazy’s get their hands on Jet liners or Trucks they use them to kill.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       02-21-2018, 11:18 AM Reply   
No one wants to pass that over Grant. There is no doubt in my mind that is a factor.... one of MANY. But what are you going to do legislatively to fix that? What can you do? Social programs, etc? Those are things the right continually wants to pull funding from...

There is a way to make it harder to get guns, right? What is wrong with looking at this avenue as one possible way to cut down on the amount of guns getting into the wrong hands? Why is the right so scared of legislation that will have ZERO effect on them as responsible gun owners?
Old     (prowake)      Join Date: Jul 2016       02-21-2018, 11:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Create a buy back program for guns and criminals will sell their guns to buy crack. Most criminals aren't great long term planners as it turns out.
For 300 million guns? who's going to pay for them?

regardless, its pretty majorly retarded to assume all criminals would sell their guns if given the chance.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-21-2018, 11:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
. Is that the major reason we have all this gun violence is the break down in the family UNIT. Crazy’s get their hands on them and use them to kill. Just like when crazy’s get their hands on Jet liners or Trucks they use them to kill.
Agreed that the family has a lot to do with it ... I think the parents should be the first and last line of defense, but some defense in the middle would help too... as Ian said:

Quote:
What is wrong with looking at this avenue as one possible way to cut down on the amount of guns getting into the wrong hands? Why is the right so scared of legislation that will have ZERO effect on them as responsible gun owners?
Why is this such a bad idea?! Sure parents should be keeping an eye on the home, but if mom and dad are both working 2x jobs to pay the bills and not around as much as they would like to be, it would be nice to know Lil' Johnny can't stroll down to the local gun show and buy himself a new toy.

Crazy did get their hands on Jetliners.... and we got TSA. How many Hijackings in the USA since 9/11? Bad **** happened, we did things to stop it from happening again. A crazy tied to use his shoes to blow up a plane, we take our shoes off now as we pass through TSA.

Normally the disaster flow chart is:
NEW BAD **** HAPPENS --> Figure out measure to limit / stop / monitor so it doesn't happen again --> It happens less / not at all

With Guns the flow chart is:
Terrible **** happens with a gun, again --> NRA / Right-Wing: More rules won't help, lets not even try to stop it, in fact, MORE GUNS --> Bad **** happens again and they seem shocked.

Last edited by sidekicknicholas; 02-21-2018 at 11:31 AM.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-21-2018, 11:30 AM Reply   
Personally i see Zero issues “raising the bar” for people to purchase a fire arms. But this is just me My 2c. What I think gun owners fear is. If they were to “make a Bar” to jump over, that this would be the start of the end. Example they start putting restrictions and TRUST ME this is what they do, they slowly but surely start raising the bar ever so slightly inch by in year by year, more and more restrictions and b4 you know it a perfectly legal citizen that could walk in and fill out the paper work & do the back ground check & wait the 15 days can No longer purchase a gun. That’s how these laws work. The anti gun movement plays “the long game” their goal is to slowly and quietly year by year inch by inch take away. I think the NRA has a stance to NO to everything. Don’t let the anti gun crowd get a foot in the door EVER. I don’t feel this way but I know many who do and they have a good point.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-21-2018, 11:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Example they start putting restrictions and TRUST ME this is what they do,
You're a few stupid hand gestures away from talking exactly like Trump.

We have a long as way to go before that is even a question... and honestly I don't think there are many liberals who are saying "100% no guns" .... most seem to just want practical checkpoints in the buying process and eliminating fire-arms which have little to no purpose in hunting / personal defense (e.i. fully auto weapons)
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-21-2018, 12:22 PM Reply   
Nick I live in california where do you live? Why don’t you tell us all about the gun laws in your state?

We have a pretty stringent gun buying regiment here in Ca.

1. You walk in and you Pay for “in full” what ever gun you want.
2. You fill out all the background check papers.
3. The Gun shop sends in a background check &15 days later the gun shop gives you a call and says you can either come pick up your gun or come get your money back cause you failed the back ground check.
4. You need to show the gun shop (with a receipt) that you own a gun safe.
5. You need to fill out a gun safety questionnaire .
6. You need to transport your gun in a Locked Case from the gun shop to your home.
7. Your ammo can’t be in the same space as your gun ever.
8. We can’t possess mags that hold more then 10 rounds. And our AR’s are retarded.

Ok these are just a few the the Rules we law abiding gun owners MUST obey to obtain a fire arm. Nick why don’t you tell us about what great laws your state has to prevent gun violence. I will be waiting
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-21-2018, 12:36 PM Reply   
Florida has zip for gun laws. And we have mass shootings.
Old     (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-21-2018, 1:11 PM Reply   
Things that you go hmmmmmm http://www.wpxi.com/news/top-stories...ge-1/647420540 http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...201-story.html http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/21...olice-say.html
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-21-2018, 1:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
but again I think you're probably the angry liberal type that gets emotional easily.
If you don't get emotional about kids dying in our schools on a regular basis then something is wrong with you.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-21-2018, 1:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by prowake View Post
For 300 million guns? who's going to pay for them?

regardless, its pretty majorly retarded to assume all criminals would sell their guns if given the chance.

The military buy's gun all the time, now they can buy from the public.

I never said all criminals would sell their guns, but I do think a majority would. It worked in Australia.
Old     (prowake)      Join Date: Jul 2016       02-21-2018, 2:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
The military buy's gun all the time, now they can buy from the public.

I never said all criminals would sell their guns, but I do think a majority would. It worked in Australia.
probably because they don't have high violent-prone demographics like the USA does (Blacks and Hispanics)

the military is never going to buy 300 million civilian guns.

liberal fantasies are comically impractical. Why is your reality so bent and twisted around your emotions?
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-21-2018, 2:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by prowake View Post
probably because they don't have high violent-prone demographics like the USA does (Blacks and Hispanics)
HAHAHAHA Austrailian are LITERALLY the decedents of violent criminals. I take it you don't have too many Black or Hispanic friends? Oh and if you say you do.... they don't think they are your friend.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-21-2018, 3:11 PM Reply   
Lol did you see my rundown of his racist posts above? Either he doesnít have any friends of color or heís some brave keyboard warrior that keeps his mouth shut IRL.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-21-2018, 3:26 PM Reply   
Many people say trump does not allow Blacks or Hispanics in his Military. Only the best.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-21-2018, 6:59 PM Reply   
Nick thanks for not answering the question but telling us everything. We get it You know nothing
Old     (prowake)      Join Date: Jul 2016       02-21-2018, 7:16 PM Reply   
contrary to your liberal beliefs, it is 100% possible to be honest and observant of sociological facts while being able to treat individuals with respect

who am I (or anyone for that matter) to judge a random individual based on group statistics?

disrespect is earned
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-21-2018, 7:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
So at 18 you can serve in the military but can't buy a gun? Good luck with that one.

People kill. Always have, always will. They'll use a gun, a truck, an explosive, or whatever it takes.

Create all the gun laws you want. Good guys will have to give their guns up, and the criminals will keep them. Now you just have more soft targets that can't fight back and that's the problem today. Good people follow the laws and leave their guns at home and shooters know that no one can stop them.

I'm for armed guards at schools and armed school staff and more security. Right now, anyone can walk onto my kids middle school campus with a rifle and there are no gates or guards to stop them. Absolutely no security for the most precious and vulnerable people. No gun law will stop this.
Schools cannot afford to hire enough teachers to maintain appropriate staffing or even books for students, yet you seem they can afford "armed guards"?

Teachers are required to pay to have an insurance policy should a student get injured in their classroom. How much do you think the policy would increase if the teacher were arming themselves in the classroom?

The simple fact is there are too many guns in this country. That is why we have so many mass shootings each year. It's basic math. The more guns in a society = more shootings in a society. Yet, some people think to making guns more readily available makes everyone safer. It's ridiculous logic.
Old     (prowake)      Join Date: Jul 2016       02-21-2018, 8:02 PM Reply   
not in Switzerland.
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       02-21-2018, 8:42 PM Reply   
When I was growing up everyone we knew had guns and learned to shoot at a early age. The handling and respect of a firearm was bred into us I guess. My immediate family was not hunters and we lived in the suburbs. There was no social media and 24hr live news when I was young but I don't remember hearing about schools getting shot up. Was it out there? True more guns equals more opportunity and a firearm is a tool made by men which is useless unless in the hands of a person making a conscious decision to act. In my opinion there has been a societal change from hunting rifles in pick up truck windows nobody would ever think to steal or use to shoot up a school to readily available military grade hardware and enabling behavior that has devolved moral character and fiber to a level that processes these type of things with regularly.

Should I really need to shop Kevlar book bags for my kids? Why is that even a viable business!.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       02-21-2018, 9:12 PM Reply   
Yes, the article is from 2013.... https://www.cnn.com/2013/04/10/opini...ground-checks/

Why the NRA fights background checks.

The direct loss of profit comes because closing the current gaping loophole in the background check system will shut off sales to criminals and the mentally ill who are effectively free to buy all the guns they want at gun shows and through private transactions.

But there is also an indirect loss of profit: Cutting off sales to the mentally ill and criminals will reduce crime and thereby reduce the public's demand for guns for self-protection.

The gun manufacturers saw gun sales plummet during the dark days of the Clinton administration when crime dropped sharply every year. The 42% drop in the murder rate from 1993 to 2000 was a nightmare for gun sellers. Nothing scares the NRA as much as a sense of calm and safety in the public.

Fear is great for their bottom line.

From 2008 to 2013, the gun and ammo manufacturing industry had one of the stronger periods in its history, with revenue growing at an annual rate of roughly 8.4% to an estimated $14.7 billion in 2013, according to a report on the industry by research firm IBISWorld. The report’s authors concluded that gains for the industry were driven in part by anxiety among its customers. “Fear of a potential rise in crime contributed to unprecedented industry growth,” the report stated. (In fact, nationwide, both property and violent crime rates fell over this period, according to FBI data.)

The impact of fear on gun sales was clear in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. The number of criminal background checks for firearm purchases — considered a good proxy for gun sales — jumped 22% in September of 2001 over the previous month’s levels, and another 19% that October.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-22-2018, 1:06 AM Reply   
Background checks do nothing when the most violent offenders continually released back on the streets with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.



https://www.city-journal.org/html/se...ice-15657.html


As far as the age old of an 18 yr old can serve his country bs argument goes ...........that 18 yr old is put through months of mental and physical training in order to handle that weapon. They are watched closely and ultimately “approved “ for duty after a rigorous training regiment of the body and mind . They don’t just decide they want a rifle today and walk out with one like magic . Those deemed unqualified are also bounced ... I personally think if someone wants an AR or any variant they should be mandated to take a course with some substance , and “prove their worth “ and mental capacities. It’s also clear again that the agency so heavily involved in allegedly protecting us (FBI) has yet again dropped the ball on failing to act on warning signs . Again proving the items are in place to stop some of these craz’s.

Right now it’s next to impossible to track and maintain guns , because a majority of each states have their own laws and requirements. I see no reason why conceal carry and gun laws shouldn’t be a nationalized program , That would ultimately lead to a much leveler playing field , and give a huge advantage of collecting data and keeping laws and regulations on an even playing field .

I don’t understand how the left makes an instant link to gun laws for any shooting , yet fails to connect the dots on the fact the educational and mental health systems are failing miserably by producing more and more individuals with “mental issues “ . It’s absurd to place the blame entirely on a piece of metal. At some point you have to take a look at why so many of these individuals are imerging on a regular basis. The access to guns has remained the same , so translating more shootings directly as a results of lax gun laws is asinine , It’s clearly a bigger problem than guns

Last edited by xstarrider; 02-22-2018 at 1:09 AM.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-22-2018, 2:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
I donít understand how the left makes an instant link to gun laws for any shooting , yet fails to connect the dots on the fact the educational and mental health systems are failing miserably by producing more and more individuals with ďmental issues ď . Itís absurd to place the blame entirely on a piece of metal. At some point you have to take a look at why so many of these individuals are imerging on a regular basis. The access to guns has remained the same , so translating more shootings directly as a results of lax gun laws is asinine , Itís clearly a bigger problem than guns
100% agree but solving those types of problems takes social investment and time. You need to send money on education and mental health services and wait until the changes roll out. In the short term you can lesson the damage by restricting gun ownership.
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       02-22-2018, 4:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
I live in california where do you live? Why donít you tell us all about the gun laws in your state?
We have a pretty stringent gun buying regiment here in Ca.
Only six states (California, Colorado, Illinois, New York, Oregon and Rhode Island) require universal background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows, including sales by unlicensed dealers. Three more states (Connecticut, Maryland and Pennsylvania) require background checks on all handgun sales made at gun shows.
So, pretty much, anyone in America can buy a gun legally. Both sides agree that bad guys should Not have guns. Both sides agree that Not everyone in the US has a right to own a firearm. Let's start by Not selling guns to bad guys every where in the US!
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-22-2018, 7:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
...yet fails to connect the dots on the fact the educational and mental health systems are failing miserably by producing more and more individuals with ďmental issues ď .
Why don't you help us and connect the dots. How is it the educational system is producing mentally ill people? And for that matter how does the mental health system "produce" mentally ill people? It's my understanding that mentally sound people don't use that service. Of course there is that ADHD thing where they are drugging kids. Maybe that's what you are referring to.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-22-2018, 7:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
I don’t understand how the left makes an instant link to gun laws for any shooting , yet fails to connect the dots on the fact the educational and mental health systems are failing miserably by producing more and more individuals with “mental issues “ . It’s absurd to place the blame entirely on a piece of metal. At some point you have to take a look at why so many of these individuals are imerging on a regular basis. The access to guns has remained the same , so translating more shootings directly as a results of lax gun laws is asinine , It’s clearly a bigger problem than guns
Both are a problem and the right has consistently kept the left from funding mental health and education and kept us from enacting sensible gun laws.

Its just like the fire triangle. You need oxegen, fuel and spark to have a fire. Take one away and it won't happen.
For mass shooting you need a lunatic and a gun. take either away and it won't happen. What is easier to take away?
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-22-2018, 8:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Ok these are just a few the the Rules we law abiding gun owners MUST obey to obtain a fire arm. Nick why don’t you tell us about what great laws your state has to prevent gun violence. I will be waiting
Quote:
Nick thanks for not answering the question but telling us everything. We get it You know nothing
I literally didn't post at all between your two statements above .... so no clue what you're talking about.... so maybe take a deep breath, read the actual thread, then start commenting again. Second, WE AGREED ABOVE.... We were on the same page. I can only assume some sort of medication wore off between your posts.

I currently live in Wisconsin .... my point about tougher laws above should have nothing to do with the state level, The federal regulations need the change because, and perhaps you didn't realize this, it is possible to buy a firearm in another state. Cali could pass a "NO GUN SALES" act, stopping all sales, but a short trip East means none of that matters.

Since, and I quote
Quote:
Personally i see Zero issues “raising the bar” for people to purchase a fire arms. But this is just me My 2c.
...this needs to happen at the federal level and if states want to go further, cool... if not, at least the collective bar was raised.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-22-2018, 8:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post

I donít understand how the left makes an instant link to gun laws for any shooting , yet fails to connect the dots on the fact the educational and mental health systems are failing miserably by producing more and more individuals with ďmental issues ď . Itís absurd to place the blame entirely on a piece of metal. At some point you have to take a look at why so many of these individuals are imerging on a regular basis. The access to guns has remained the same , so translating more shootings directly as a results of lax gun laws is asinine , Itís clearly a bigger problem than guns
Isn't it just like blaming stoners on weed? We regulate "stuff" all the time because of what we trust (or don't trust) the stupidest/weakest/dumbest among us to do with that stuff.

If the issue isn't guns, but rather mental health, what are you (being a card carrying representative of "the right") doing to keep guns out of the hands of the people with "mental issues?"
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-22-2018, 9:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
If the issue isn't guns, but rather mental health, what are you (being a card carrying representative of "the right") doing to keep guns out of the hands of the people with "mental issues?"
Well, looks like so far most of those card carrying members in congress and Trump by signing into law the repeal of a measure that would have plausibly prevented certain classes of mentally ill people from purchasing firearms by allowing a new data source to be included the system that runs those background checks.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       02-22-2018, 9:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Background checks do nothing when the most violent offenders continually released back on the streets with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.



https://www.city-journal.org/html/se...ice-15657.html



I agree, let's release all the marijuana and drug offenders from jail and start filling them up with violent criminals instead. I don't have a problem with that at all. Make it hurt to get caught with an illegal firearm.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-22-2018, 9:59 AM Reply   
Nick the thing that gets me going is this. Dumb A$$ libs that donít know $hit that come off as know it allís when it comes to guns. You sounded like one so thatís why you got my attention. Here is a Example, I already live in one of the most gun restrictive states, then dumb ass people libs start piping up like ďwhack a moleĒ saying we need more laws and more restriction, and yes here is the kicker. You regulate the $hit out of Californians, 15 day wait and back ground check,bla bla bla but you can get in your car drive to Nevada 2 hrs away and Iím 100% serious in my next statement you can pick up the news paper in Nevada go to the ďfor sale sectionĒ and buy a used AR/15 from a guy out of the back of his car in the parking lott of Walmart. And own and possesses many high capacity mags as you want. Zero paperwork cash and cary! So you dumb dumbs who want regulation start with fixing stuff like that.

Mean while have you seen what brilliant law makers have made Californian AR15 owners do. They have made us jump threw more and more hoops and itís 100% useless. Example
https://youtu.be/wN4QNTaZ0y8
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       02-22-2018, 10:07 AM Reply   
right, so let's eliminate those loopholes and have a baseline federal gun policy that all states have to adhere to. Private and gun show sales should have to be held to the same standard as the rest. Honestly, most libs are just asking for something! something to move forward in protecting our children. But the NRA and gun nuts always immediately jump out to defend any and all possible legislation against guns.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-22-2018, 10:12 AM Reply   
"So you dumb dumbs who want regulation start with fixing stuff like that. "

You mean the same "dumb dumbs" that have been trying to fix that all along, while the gun lovers do everything in their power to stop it?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-22-2018, 10:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
Well, looks like so far most of those card carrying members in congress and Trump by signing into law the repeal of a measure that would have plausibly prevented certain classes of mentally ill people from purchasing firearms by allowing a new data source to be included the system that runs those background checks.
Not really true tho... Trump repealed a reg that would've shared social security disability info for purposes of background checks. I'm personally not sure that I want civil rights to be denied to a person who has depression.

The whole "mental illness" thing is a razor's edge to walk. To the extent you stigmatize it, and deny civil rights for seeking treatment, you may discourage people from seeking treatment which just exacerbates the problem of lots of untreated mental illness.

Personally I think "mental illness" is a red herring (but an oh so beautifully crafted one). The argument is basically that as soon as an Orlando or Las Vegas or Parkland happens that only a "sick" and "mentally ill" person could do such a horrific act, ergo the problem is mental illness not guns. Problem being that none of those guys were ever formally diagnosed to be mentally ill, and certainly not ruled by a court to be legally incompetent. It's that the horror of the bad act itself is the basis for the diagnosis.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-22-2018, 10:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
but you can get in your car drive to Nevada 2 hrs away and Iím 100% serious in my next statement you can pick up the news paper in Nevada go to the ďfor sale sectionĒ and buy a used AR/15 from a guy out of the back of his car in the parking lott of Walmart.[/url]
Private gun sales are definitely possible in NV. You aren't going to pick up a paper tho... craigslist ate classifieds in Nevada long ago. And CL and FB marketplace don't allow gun sales. I'm sure there must be some sites that support gun classifieds in Nevada, but it certainly isn't the usual suspects as you suggest.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-22-2018, 10:51 AM Reply   
Owning a gun is according to the 2008 SCOTUS an individual right for the first time in over 200 years. Just because a person is mentally ill, their rights cannot be denied except through due process. But for some reason proponents of that individual right don't seem to grasp that their wish for such a right means the terrorists and mentally ill get their guns as a right until something bad happens.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-22-2018, 10:53 AM Reply   
John; I love how you libs love to play the victim. Oooo who is me! Your god OBOZO was president for 8 years, you guys had the majority and What? You still couldnít get $hit done as far as gun control. My state CA seems to be getting more rules and more and more guns placed on the ďCanít Own ListĒ so donít tell me you canít pass gun reform laws, your full of $hit like normal. I LIVE IN A STATE thatís been doing that very thing for years. This is my point. They very dumb ass people like John that come off like they know everything and they donít know ****. If your complaining about lack of gun control laws and you Live in a state with none ďMOVE Out of itĒ go to Gun Free Democrat controlled Detroit. Live among the people you champion for. LOL LOL
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-22-2018, 11:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
John; I love how you libs love to play the victim. Oooo who is me! Your god OBOZO was president for 8 years, you guys had the majority and What? You still couldnít get $hit done as far as gun control. My state CA seems to be getting more rules and more and more guns placed on the ďCanít Own ListĒ so donít tell me you canít pass gun reform laws, your full of $hit like normal. I LIVE IN A STATE thatís been doing that very thing for years. This is my point. They very dumb ass people like John that come off like they know everything and they donít know ****. If your complaining about lack of gun control laws and you Live in a state with none ďMOVE Out of itĒ go to Gun Free Democrat controlled Detroit. Live among the people you champion for. LOL LOL
Grant, two posts ago you pointed out the whole problem with the argument in this post ... that until gun laws are uniform across all states, people will travel to a nearby jurisdiction with more lax laws.

different topic but same point... I heard elko county NV was considering approval of its first rec/med MJ dispensary... in West Wendover, NV. Where's that? Why it's right across the state line from UT, where all forms of MJ are still illegal.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-22-2018, 1:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
John; I love how you libs love to play the victim. Oooo who is me! Your god OBOZO was president for 8 years, you guys had the majority and What? You still couldnít get $hit done as far as gun control. My state CA seems to be getting more rules and more and more guns placed on the ďCanít Own ListĒ so donít tell me you canít pass gun reform laws, your full of $hit like normal. I LIVE IN A STATE thatís been doing that very thing for years. This is my point. They very dumb ass people like John that come off like they know everything and they donít know ****. If your complaining about lack of gun control laws and you Live in a state with none ďMOVE Out of itĒ go to Gun Free Democrat controlled Detroit. Live among the people you champion for. LOL LOL
This is priceless. You calling someone dumb? Are you not the dumbass that posted an article outraged because Obama's grandmother was going to receive $180K a year for life? Are you not the dumbass that can't spell on a third-grade level?

The only victims here are the innocent people that were gunned down senselessly in that school. Yet, the right's logic is more guns will make us safer. That worked wonders in Las Vegas. This is no longer about Constitutional rights; it's ensuring gun and ammo manufacturers exceed current profits.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-22-2018, 2:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
This is priceless. You calling someone dumb?
Not to mention that there was nothing in what I posted that is remotely relevant to someone playing the victim. It's like he doesn't even understand what he's responding to and simply takes some right wing media provided cliche and posts it as a response.

How did we get from "Obama's coming to take your guns" to "Obama did nothing to your guns" coming out of the same mouths in such a short time?
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-22-2018, 3:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post

How did we get from "Obama's coming to take your guns" to "Obama did nothing to your guns" coming out of the same mouths in such a short time?
Easy ...........Democratic campaign rhetoric VS. Actual Policy .
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-22-2018, 3:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Easy ...........Democratic campaign rhetoric VS. Actual Policy .
I think what you mean is what right wing alt-"news" talking heads say Democratic campaign rhetoric is vs. actual policy.

Unless you can find me a plank of the 2008 or 2012 DNC platforms that says "we're coming for your guns"?

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