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Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-28-2008, 11:56 PM Reply   
Replacing my 2 12v batteries and need suggestions.

My system does not use a butt load of power, but the "car batteries" i have in my boat now are old and now dead.

red tops? blue tops?

thanks.
Old     (hype29)      Join Date: Feb 2007       02-29-2008, 5:28 AM Reply   
I would say Optima blue top
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-29-2008, 5:31 AM Reply   
Neither, go with a Marine "Deep" cycle and "Starting" battery. I like Interstate's Marine batteries. $.02
Old     (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       02-29-2008, 5:56 AM Reply   
KINETIC
Old     (twdugas)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-29-2008, 6:04 AM Reply   
I've always liked Interstate batteries but then again Interstate makes the Optima Series too so I guess it win win either way you go...
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       02-29-2008, 9:02 AM Reply   
Optima's have a poor power to cost/size/weight ratio. They work fine but there are lots of better options. Two of those better options are golf cart batteries (require maintenance and maybe a capacitor) or as Neal says Kinetic.

The Kinetics from JC Whitney are tough to beat. Twice the power for about the same cost as a blue top optima.
Old     (uofamox)      Join Date: Feb 2007       02-29-2008, 9:06 AM Reply   
There are only three or four companies that actually make the wet cell batteries. If you want a traditional wet cell battery the marine everstart maxx at walmart are the best bang for your buck. They have 125 amp hours and they are a starting, deep cycle marine battery.

Kinetic batteries are really great but expensive and it sounds like you dont need them unless to want to hide the batteries in a comparment.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-29-2008, 9:17 AM Reply   
Deka makes a wide range of batteries so you can find the right ones for your application. How do you have the batteries setup? As a one battery system or 2. If you have the batteries wired in parrallel you have a one battery system. If you have the 2 batteries wired with a switch, isolator or something similar you have a 2 battery system. The reason I ask this is because depending on how your system is setup determines the type of batteries.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       02-29-2008, 9:59 AM Reply   
will never buy optimas again.

Buy wherever there is an exchange program.... since charged batteries and boats don't go hand in hand.
Old     (jroll)      Join Date: Dec 2007       02-29-2008, 10:12 AM Reply   
Sorry to jump into the middle of the thread but my weekend project is to install a 2nd battery with the Blue Sea battery combiner and i didn't know whether it was better to have the same type of battery for your components and your starting or can you use a different type for each?
Old     (99xstar99)      Join Date: Nov 2007       02-29-2008, 10:24 AM Reply   
Go to Millionbuy.com and get some Kinetics for $99 to $200 off the regular price and get some good batteries. I have the Hc1900 as my primary running 3 amps/1600 watts, NEVER HAVE HAD a problem when starting up or running the stereo.

(Message edited by 99xstar99 on February 29, 2008)
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-29-2008, 10:29 AM Reply   
Sorry to jump into the middle of the thread but my weekend project is to install a 2nd battery with the Blue Sea battery combiner and i didn't know whether it was better to have the same type of battery for your components and your starting or can you use a different type for each?

IMO, yes, if the batteries will be tied together with a Iso/combiner or Perko type switch, it is recommended to use batteries of the same construction type i.e. lead acid wet cell, gel-cel, etc. They tend to have different charge rates and this can leave you with an undercharged battery.
Old     (my_malibu)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-29-2008, 11:18 AM Reply   
make sure you get the new optimas mine I"ll replaced twice
only held a charge about a year
had a huge recall
used orbitals now

(Message edited by my_malibu on February 29, 2008)
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       02-29-2008, 1:02 PM Reply   
craig, when was the recall? Interesting... I've never heard that. Replaced 2 after lasting one season.

If you're charging the batts together, thru a combiner or otherwise, they need to be same type. different types have different charge rates and it will mess up alt
Old     (detonate69)      Join Date: Apr 2001       02-29-2008, 1:08 PM Reply   
I looked on millionbuy.com and couldn't find the kinetic batteries. I have one and am looking to get another. A link would be great to anywhere selling them for a good price.
Old     (hemihauler)      Join Date: Jan 2006       02-29-2008, 1:19 PM Reply   
http://www.millionbuy.com/caudio-kit-sup.html

I think they are there
Old     (detonate69)      Join Date: Apr 2001       02-29-2008, 1:29 PM Reply   
Thank you. Don't know how I missed that!
Old     (bp22)      Join Date: Oct 2006       02-29-2008, 1:32 PM Reply   
Per Mikeski...fere are some great deals on Kinetiks - http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2009758/p-2009758/N-111+200+10615+10715+4294966078/c-10615

Free shipping. I just got a HC2400 for $214 delivered.
Old     (detonate69)      Join Date: Apr 2001       02-29-2008, 1:36 PM Reply   
even better! thats a great deal from jc whitney.
Old     (whitlecj)      Join Date: Apr 2004       02-29-2008, 3:19 PM Reply   
+1 for optima
Old     (atlmobiuslsv)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-29-2008, 4:28 PM Reply   
kinetic or powermaster....
Old    Ben Kerran            02-29-2008, 7:56 PM Reply   
I have a few Optima's (10) in my boat and if I were to do it again, I would prolly go a different route. They are great if you need to mount at on side or upside down etc. but agree with above and think you could get something with a better ratio for the $. I have also heard nothing but good things about the Kinetics
Old     (jwat142)      Join Date: Jan 2002       03-01-2008, 5:02 AM Reply   
Are the Kinetiks a good all-around battery that can be used for starting and running the stereo, etc. off of? I currently have one amp pushing a 12-inch sub, ballast pumps, and a heater all running off the one starting battery I have. Which Kinetik would you recommend on that JC Whitney site? I haven't had any problems with my current battery so far, but wouldn't mind upgrading.
Old     (chaser)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-01-2008, 7:55 AM Reply   
I'm also curious if these Kinetic batteries are a good choice for single battery set ups?
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-01-2008, 2:19 PM Reply   
Kinetik HC 2400, just ordered a pair from JC Whitney to replace my Golf Cart batts. Both batteries shipped were $380 using the 20% off coupon Brandon was kind enough to send me. It appears anybody can use the code.

Just enter: BEEBBX8 in the promocode box
Old     (bp22)      Join Date: Oct 2006       03-01-2008, 2:23 PM Reply   
Right on Mike...that's the least I could do after all your help. Thanks again!

Brandon
Old     (jwat142)      Join Date: Jan 2002       03-01-2008, 2:43 PM Reply   
Can someone give me a little more info on the Kinetik and Optima batteries. Both are ok for just a single battery setup, correct? Do you charge these with a normal trickle charger over the winter like you do with regular batteries? Lastly, if I can get an Optima for $150 or a Kinetik for $199, which would be the better deal? Thanks for any help!
Old     (sp0tts)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-01-2008, 3:20 PM Reply   
The Kinetiks are what all the pro audio people are using these days. Optimas are an older technology. I personally am going with Kinetic and from everything I have heard from others running them, it's worth it. And yes you could go with a single battery setup.
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-01-2008, 4:24 PM Reply   
That promo code doesn't work.
Old     (x45er)      Join Date: Nov 2007       03-02-2008, 1:52 AM Reply   
Just my two cents......

From the info on Kinetiks website I find no technical data on their batteries....just hype. I see no affiliations to any recognized battery organizations (BCI, ELBC, ILBF). I bet with a little research you will find this battery is just a cheap Asian import with a cool sticker on it. Kudos to there marketing dept. As far as the hype, what is their ESR and how are they calculating it? Look at the drawing in their tech information and you will find an example where they parallel the battery with the starting battery. Duh, resistance goes down in parallel. Anyone hear of ohms law.

Look at the Optima battery link below and they state the cell impedance which was probably collected using industry standard test equipment.

Kinetic boasts more plates.....No, There are only 12 plates in a battery. If Kinetik wants to make a plate out of a large roll of plating material welded together to cheapen the manufacturing process does'nt mean it's a perfomance feature.

And spotts....the optima battery is one of the latest innovations in lead acid batteries...not kinetik...if you want the latest look at Firefly in Peoria, Il.

Sorry for the rant. As someone in the battery industry I hate to see BS. I think I'll contact Kinetic and find out this info and also see which independant battery test lab they are using (BETS Services, JBI, TAWAS, Consumer's union (consumers reports) and the like to support claims as well as who is manufacturing this battery. Who know it may be manufactured by Yuasa and be a good battery. In that case I'll have to eat crow and wash it down with a big cup of shut the %$#@ up!

Look at the East Penn tech sheet below......they put the does and the don'ts as well as performance data.

http://www.optimabatteries.com/optima_edge/technical_specs.php
http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/0139.pdf
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       03-02-2008, 5:54 AM Reply   
I have had both and the kinetik performs better. I was told by an engineer in the "industry" why the one is better than the other and optima was not a recommended battery by him.
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-02-2008, 7:13 AM Reply   
Tell us the reasons then....
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       03-02-2008, 7:26 AM Reply   
Something about the mat being wrapped in too tight of a spiral. The tight spiral leads to the mat touching and shorting on itself, thus leading to shorter cell life and eventually a dead cell. At least that was the "jist" of what he told me.
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-02-2008, 7:31 AM Reply   
I don't know which one is better but I've got optima's right now, if they crapped out I'd try out the kinetic. Looks like I could cut down the number of batteries in 1/2.
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       03-02-2008, 7:38 AM Reply   
I have had optima's and they work fine, but then one day it is crapped out. I know they work good for a lot of people, but there are just other options out there now. Kind of like boats I guess.
Old     (waterzomby)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-02-2008, 7:43 AM Reply   
I have about exhausted my efforts on trying to find the "best" battery. I think it comes down to how the battery is taken care of that will determine the performance and life.
Old     (jwat142)      Join Date: Jan 2002       03-02-2008, 1:10 PM Reply   
If I went with a Kinetik, which model would you recommend if I am going with a single battery setup that will have one amp running off of it (300 watts RMS), three simer ballast pumps and a heater?

Also, currently I have never been able to get my amp/sub setup to work all the time. It seems to fade in and out and rarely works for an extended time. Do you think this is because the battery isn't supplying enough power? Would buying an optima or kinetik battery help this?
Old     (x45er)      Join Date: Nov 2007       03-02-2008, 2:08 PM Reply   
Ewing......your friend may be correct. Tighter the cell wrap equals less distance between the plates. If the battery sits and is not used (winter) this would allow sulfation to build on the plates shorting the cell faster....

East Penn is right in your back door up in Lyon Station. You may be able to contact them and get some blems pretty cheap. Most manufacturers will do this. East Penn is an impressive company that strives to provide a quality product....and they're made in the USA!!!!

If anyone one is interested there are only a few US manufacturers: JCI (optima), Exide (get them at Wal-Mart),Enersys, Power Battery, and Superior. In most cases all materials and equipment used in the manufacturing process come from the US.

Consumer's Union starts their battery testing for Consumer Reports magazine this month. You should see it out May/June time frame. Take a look and see who the top performers are. They will do reserve capacity, cold crank, crank, and life cycle testing. I believe the life cycle is also done at 40 degrees celcius.
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       03-02-2008, 3:25 PM Reply   
East Penn stopped good pricing on blems and the store at the plant is/has been higher priced than retailers.

If I didn't get kinetik then Stinger or Odessey would be something else to look at. I also know Sears has a new Diehard line that is priced well with some good specs.

I also have never trusted the results of Consumer Reports. I know I am in the minority on this one, but I just think they are not as unbiased as they are supposed to be.
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-02-2008, 6:12 PM Reply   
I've got a battery charger that re-conditions the batteries with a de-sulphation mode. I've done it on my optima's and they're holding over 13v after a charge, this is after 3 years of boat use.
Old     (x45er)      Join Date: Nov 2007       03-02-2008, 7:43 PM Reply   
nu bu...who is the manufacturer. I need to get a new one.
Old     (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-02-2008, 7:49 PM Reply   
+1 for blue tops
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-02-2008, 8:01 PM Reply   
Vector is the charger manufacturer.
Old     (johnw)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-02-2008, 9:26 PM Reply   
I have used the same two blue top optimas in my BU for three years and have had no problems. On my old RV I had only one house battery for 3 years and it was a optima blue top. I or should I say my wife and kids regularly completely killed/depleted the one house battery of all power and it would come back 100% everytime. Also mounting it in any position is a huge plus around sterio equipment etc. Also I am not a big fan of the older style lead acid batteries since they tend to off gas and leak some of the H2SO4 (sulfuric acid). Something about this gas and sparks on a boat make me nervious! I don't like gasoline either but got to have it. Thats my two cents.....
Old     (billy2603)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-05-2008, 4:13 PM Reply   
I have am installing a 600watt system (upgrading from 300watts) and I currently have wet cells - one starting and one deep cycle on an isolator. I have been planning on picking up two new batteries. Would it be best to stick with the one starter/one deep cycle or just get two matching deep cycles? I have been looking at these two:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02827494000P?vName=Automotive&cName= Batteries+%26+Chargers&sName=Marine+Batteries}

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02827415000P?vName=Automotive&cName= Batteries+%26+Chargers&sName=Marine+Batteries

The Kinetik HC1800 and the Diehard deep cycle have roughly 80Ah - with a system this size and no mounting issues, is there any reason for me to consider the upgrade to Kinetik? I rarely just sit still and play music at high volume for more than an hour.
Old     (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-05-2008, 4:28 PM Reply   
As far as battery chargers go, take a look at the dual pro chargers. They are not cheap but they are the best out there. Every tournament BASS fisherman uses them to charge their trolling motor batteries back up during tournaments.

www.dualpro.com
Old     (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-05-2008, 5:49 PM Reply   
hey, i'm using this for my optoma's and have been for a couple years now. i'm okay right?

http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/12-volt/5-10amps/CT-500-1.html
Old     (x45er)      Join Date: Nov 2007       03-06-2008, 10:28 AM Reply   
As suspected....I contacted Eric at Kinetik to inquire about their batteries. He would give me no information concerning manufacturing, test data, or who actually manufactures the Kinetik battery. All I did find out is that it is made in China and marketed here as a Kinetic battery targeting the audio market. Advice.....by a battery from a reputable manufacturer.
Old     (iagainsti)      Join Date: Apr 2004       03-06-2008, 11:17 AM Reply   
Optimas are way over priced for the amount of amp hours you get. I went with a AGM Dual Pro rated at 210 amp hours and it is a work horse. Its basically 3 blue tops for a lil over the cost of one, its just not as pretty.
Old     (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-06-2008, 11:45 AM Reply   
Kinetic is the battery recomended by Wetsounds. If you're correct Terry that's dissapointing to knwo that the battery is just china junk...makes you even question the "stats" kinetic lists.

I've heard some local audio shops haveing problems with them upon delivery...the battery won't hold a charge. Pretty crappy when they retail for $400.
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-06-2008, 11:47 AM Reply   
"Pretty crappy when they retail for $400"

That and they are probably manufactured for $20.
Old     (x45er)      Join Date: Nov 2007       03-06-2008, 1:52 PM Reply   
Call Eric......the receptionist at Kinetik gave me his cell number. 419-386-8116 Maybe someone else can get some data out of him. I've been to alot of battery plants in China and I was hoping to get the manufacturer. Oh well

Wetsounds is an audio manufacturer not a battery manufacturer. I'm sure they want to recommend what they feel is the best product for the application. The wetsounds guys are on here and they provide valuable information and always get rave reviews from everyone for their products and service.

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