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Old    stormrider            06-17-2003, 9:30 AM Reply   
We've all seen it, butt drops, arms straight, handle out. Speed builds but to pop the wake you have to flatten out and line goes less tense equalling a lamer jump.

After reading Kyle Schmidt's excellent article in WB this month on handle position, I think I may have figured something out.

The derrier-drop-edge arises from turning into the wake wrong from the neutral position (the point where you're out farthest and ready to turn in). From neutral, if your arms go straight and then you turn the only way to build edge is to drop your derrier, but then to pop the wake you have to roll forward which causes the flattening out. If I make a wrong turn into the wake, I find it impossible to get my knees rolled forward.

Possible cure for hs regular. From neutral, keep handle in tighter and lean toward the tail of the board then look over your left shoulder toward the wake while dropping the left shoulder back and down. The board turns toward the wake, the handle is low and the shoulders naturally fall back. As the edge builds the handle can move out but with the shoulders now back you're still in the right position with the knees rolled forward to stand tall, pull in the handle, pop the wake and create as much slack in the rope as you need in the air-- which may be none depending.

Does this sound right?
Old     (sdrider)      Join Date: Sep 2002       06-17-2003, 12:44 PM Reply   
Steve, isn't the knee rolled forward for a toeside edge? If I roll my knees forward on HS wouldn't I essentially be flattening my board by taking it off the HS edge?

On the other hand I rarely hit the wake the same twice so consider the source.
Old    stormrider            06-17-2003, 1:43 PM Reply   
I was thinking how I could describe knees rolled forward and I guess the best picture is Tim Monk's first picture on his profile; problem I was having was getting to that point early on in my cut and what I think the key to it is getting the shoulders back as you come out of neutral and start into the turn.
If you turn standing straight with arms out, the board heads towards the wake but the handle is out of position and as the speed builds there's not enough time to get the shoulders back and the handle in. Something about the dynamics.
I've gotten this knees forward, handle more in and shoulders back thing right a few times and when you hit the wake this way you definitely get bucked up and out.
Hey, Mike we old guys gotta stick together. Give me a buzz if you want to head out some Sat. or Sun.
Old    stormrider            06-17-2003, 1:46 PM Reply   
Mike. Tim Monk posted on Lara Schindlers find a third Mission bay Sunday the 15th post so you can get to his profile and see the pic I was talking about and lamely trying to describe.
Old     (sdrider)      Join Date: Sep 2002       06-17-2003, 4:10 PM Reply   
Steve, I see what you mean. His knees are bent and forward as much as possible without engaging the ankles to follow. I agree with you about when it all comes together you get that extra pop and you think "I've got it now." Then you're next 10 jumps suck!

BTW, who you calling old?

P.S. Is your driver for hire Raphael Gandara? Are you keeping him locked up in the barn without access to the internet? That would explain everything!
Old     (craiger)      Join Date: May 2002       06-18-2003, 6:14 AM Reply   
two words for the problem in the topic header...

SLOW DOWN!!!

Old    stormrider            06-18-2003, 8:52 AM Reply   
I am Raphael Gandara! No, I am Raphael gandara. Reminds me of the opening scene in "Catch me if you can."

What is the first critical step in creating a progressive edge, the fundamental building block upon which a progressive edge is based? It's not getting up or edging out heelside. In my opinion the first critical step is when you are standing in the neutral position. Handle position and the manner in which you turn into the wake will establish two things: 1.) Whether you establish a progressive edge at all, and, 2.) the intensity of that edge. I've heard it over and over from riders with a bag full of tricks: you want to be leaning back the hardest right at the wake. My problem has been getting "off on the right foot."

Here's how I think it starts to get it right: neutral. Extend arms fully out, advance the board and pull the handle in say 30-60% of your arm length (more if you're stronger and more experienced, less if you can't handle the upcoming edge), then turn head toward the wake, drop the left shoulder and initiate the turn into the wake. Once you are on line, lean back by letting your arms out. Knees will be "rolled forward" (Kyle Schmidt's line, not mine, see May 02 Wakeboarder) shoulders will be back and the edge will be dug in hard and digging harder as you approach the wake- iow, the edge is progressive. At the wake, with arms extended you can pull forward, pop the wake and create slack for a handle pass or you can leave the line fully loaded and go for a heelside backroll. Or you can roll slightly forward to pop the wake and do a mute 180, whatever.

But it is while in neutral that you "dial in" edge intensity based on how close you pull the handle to your hip. The rider by selecting handle position controls the intensity of the edge! For laughs, try pulling it in to the hip then initiating the turn and edge into the wake. In this way, when you extend your arms (again something Schmidt talks about in May 02) you will be leaning back alright, but the intensity and the speed of the edge will be too much for all but the best riders. Hence, to "adjust" for strength, trick and skill level, choose to advance the board (by pulling the handle in) say only 30% of your arm length.

I'm gonna work this theory tomorrow and see what happens. Can't be any worse than some of my lame jumps with me turning arms straight where the handle is actually between the boat and the front edge of the board as I edge in. Here, it's just the same 'ol butt drop and flatten out mess that gets nowhere.

I think I'll send this over to Kyle Schmidt at the Wakeboard Camp and see what he thinks cuz I might be all messed up!

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