Articles
   
       
Pics/Video
       
Wake 101
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WakeWorld Home
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Non-Wakeboarding Discussion

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old    Ian Brown (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       10-02-2017, 7:07 AM Reply   
I hope none of you were in Vegas for that concert. What is wrong with people these days? Just absolutely horrible.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-02-2017, 7:50 AM Reply   
My brother works vegas nights (luckily Sundays are slow and he wasn't close enough to the festival to be in harm's way). Terrible.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       10-02-2017, 8:17 AM Reply   
I had two friends that were at the concert. Luckily both are unharmed.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       10-02-2017, 9:19 AM Reply   
I have neighbors that where there. Luckily they are safe. It hits home because they have two small children. What a F@#$ing coward.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-02-2017, 9:20 AM Reply   
Damn. We're staying at Mandela Bay next month.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       10-02-2017, 9:45 AM Reply   
ridiculous. sounded like a full auto weapon.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-02-2017, 10:13 AM Reply   
Sounds like he converted the weapons to auto. Almost 60 dead now and over 500 injured.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-02-2017, 10:37 AM Reply   
Does have anyone have any more info on the girl running around telling everyone to get out they're all gonna die 45 min before the shooting started?
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-02-2017, 11:56 AM Reply   
My boss was there. His friend was shot and sustained minor injuries. Crazy!
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-02-2017, 12:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
My boss was there. His friend was shot and sustained minor injuries. Crazy!
Glad to hear minor and not hospitalization. Emergency departments were at capacity.
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-02-2017, 12:44 PM Reply   
Amazing reports from University Medical with Level 1 Trauma
https://www.facebook.com/FOX13TampaB...type=2&theater

Last edited by deneng; 10-02-2017 at 12:52 PM.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-02-2017, 2:00 PM Reply   
So sad, so predictable. Even sadder, this will change nothing.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-02-2017, 2:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
So sad, so predictable. Even sadder, this will change nothing.
predictable?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-02-2017, 2:16 PM Reply   
There has been 274 multiple shootings so far this year, major ones like this seem to happen every year or so. What strategy is being used to change the environment where these things keep happening? Nothing. It will continue until something changes in society which stops producing angry unstable people and the ready access to guns.

There is just no will to tackle it, the problem is too deep rooted in society.

Mark my words, this will happen again within 12 months or so.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-02-2017, 2:19 PM Reply   
Don't get me wrong my heart goes out to you guys but it all just seems so pointless
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       10-02-2017, 2:34 PM Reply   
Talk about having a negative attitude, you can't just give up. There are good people in this world.
Old    Stephen P (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-02-2017, 2:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
There is just no will to tackle it, the problem is too deep rooted in society.

Mark my words, this will happen again within 12 months or so.

**deeply rooted in humans** Massive twisted sick acts of violence are part of human history. How do we change that is the real question.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-02-2017, 2:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
predictable?
It doesn't take much to see that these are becoming more and more common, and therefore predictable.
Attached Images
 
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-02-2017, 2:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
**deeply rooted in humans** Massive twisted sick acts of violence are part of human history. How do we change that is the real question.
Making them harder to carry out would help.
Old    Stephen P (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-02-2017, 3:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
Making them harder to carry out would help.

What was the hardest part? I would say pulling the trigger.. If you can stomach that single moment right there than I'd say the ways and means would be cake no matter what.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-02-2017, 3:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
What was the hardest part? I would say pulling the trigger.. If you can stomach that single moment right there than I'd say the ways and means would be cake no matter what.
Cake? That can be disputed. You can use vehicles which have been proven quite deadly, bombs(usually don't get nearly as many people), knives, not even close. If we made it harder for people to get guns it would cut down on stuff like this. All the guns the guy purchased were completely legal.

60 deaths and 500 injuries is not "cake" to pull off if you don't have a fully automatic weapon.

And you're exactly right, pulling the trigger was the hardest part, because he just went into a store and bought all the **** he needed to pull it off. Watch a youtbe video on how to convert for full auto and you're good for home grown mass killings.
Old    Stephen P (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-02-2017, 3:13 PM Reply   
Apparently this guy didn't care much for the rule of law.

Thewakeisreal, are you in favor for the war on drugs?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-02-2017, 4:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
Cake? That can be disputed. You can use vehicles which have been proven quite deadly, bombs(usually don't get nearly as many people), knives, not even close. If we made it harder for people to get guns it would cut down on stuff like this. All the guns the guy purchased were completely legal.

60 deaths and 500 injuries is not "cake" to pull off if you don't have a fully automatic weapon.

And you're exactly right, pulling the trigger was the hardest part, because he just went into a store and bought all the **** he needed to pull it off. Watch a youtbe video on how to convert for full auto and you're good for home grown mass killings.
My view on gun control is pretty clear but I'd like to point out that mass shootings are not the problem but the symptom. Happy people don't shoot other people.

1. Start investing more money in mental health services
2. Start teaching life skills/mindfulness in the school system
3. Start taking equality of opportunity seriously
4. Start being nicer to each other.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-02-2017, 5:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
Apparently this guy didn't care much for the rule of law.

Thewakeisreal, are you in favor for the war on drugs?
I'm not. I think dems and Clintons ****ed that up royally. I am for the war on pharmaceuticals. Most of the issue is from pharmaceutical companies giving out prescribed heroin for a broken wrist.

Just like that, it should be harder to go buy guns. You should pass psychological exams every year, you don't need a ****ing military rifle either. I'm not completely anti-gun, there's plenty of fine gun owners, but you guys should want stricter gun control so guys like this don't make you look bad.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-02-2017, 6:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
It doesn't take much to see that these are becoming more and more common, and therefore predictable.
Oh yes. I agree with that. These will keep happening. I understood your post to suggest that shooting from a hotel suite was predictable.

Last edited by jarrod; 10-02-2017 at 7:03 PM. Reason: typo
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-02-2017, 7:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
I'm not. I think dems and Clintons ****ed that up royally. I am for the war on pharmaceuticals. Most of the issue is from pharmaceutical companies giving out prescribed heroin for a broken wrist.

Just like that, it should be harder to go buy guns. You should pass psychological exams every year, you don't need a ****ing military rifle either. I'm not completely anti-gun, there's plenty of fine gun owners, but you guys should want stricter gun control so guys like this don't make you look bad.
What else can you do? They guy had no record of criminal history so he likely would have passed a background check. His family seemed to think he was normal. People snap. Always have always will.

I firmly believe no form of gun control would ever work. It's the silliest logic ever. Use laws to stop people from breaking laws? All you will ever get from gun control is cooperation from good people and the disarming them as a result, while criminals keep their guns and acquire whatever they want illegally, and you now have criminals more well armed than the good people.

The possession of military style rifles is another subject for me and a lot of people don't agree with it. Definitely.... not everyone should have one. But the world is turning into a crazy place so I'll be keeping mine for sure.

This guy found a new and more efficient way to mass murder. I worry that he just showed every other psycho out there the best way to kill a lot of people. Literally shooting fish in a barrel with as much time as he needed. Now one could touch him, and no one could shoot back even! I don't know what they can do to prevent stuff like this from happening again, but I'll think twice before being locked in a confined area with thousands of people. I frequent Vegas often and have been to concerts at Mandalay 3 times. This one is scary for me. Bullet proof windows on hotels?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-02-2017, 8:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
I firmly believe no form of gun control would ever work. It's the silliest logic ever.
Not that silly, they reformed in Ausy 20 years ago, halted mass shootings and reversed gun crime climbing by 2.5% per year to falling by 1.5% per year and reduced gun suicide by 75%.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-study-finds
Old    Bcd D (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       10-02-2017, 9:02 PM Reply   
The guy had a plane and pilot's license. How many people would have died if he came in full speed Kamikaze?
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-02-2017, 9:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
What else can you do? They guy had no record of criminal history so he likely would have passed a background check. His family seemed to think he was normal. People snap. Always have always will.
This guy found a new and more efficient way to mass murder. I worry that he just showed every other psycho out there the best way to kill a lot of people. Literally shooting fish in a barrel with as much time as he needed. Now one could touch him, and no one could shoot back even! I don't know what they can do to prevent stuff like this from happening again, but I'll think twice before being locked in a confined area with thousands of people. I frequent Vegas often and have been to concerts at Mandalay 3 times. This one is scary for me. Bullet proof windows on hotels?
No bullet proof windows, too expensive, much cheaper to just put a sniper in the best position to take out mass murderers who start shooting. I am not worried about going to football games with 100,000 people, because there are several towers, that would be great positions for snipers, but they are all patrolled by police.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-03-2017, 7:41 AM Reply   
You anti gun nuts act like he just went & bought a stock pile the day before. It's been years of buying & probably had no intention of using them in this fashion during those times. It seems rather obvious at this point between what was on his FB page, the pics of him in a pussy hat, who the targets were he had an agenda. One that is egged on by the left out of their blind hatred for the opposition. We've allowed calls to violence for political gain for far too long. Conservatives sitting on facebook with their "we got all the guns, what they gonna do" bull****. The new ANTIFA stuff. We have a people problem, not a gun problem.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-03-2017, 8:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Not that silly, they reformed in Ausy 20 years ago, halted mass shootings and reversed gun crime climbing by 2.5% per year to falling by 1.5% per year and reduced gun suicide by 75%.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-study-finds
I don't know anything about Australia, but I do know they banned guns. And I've seen conflicting reports. Some say crime and violence did NOT go down, only the use of guns decreased. But who knows what is really accurate.

I do know that criminals here aren't going to give up their guns. There are already laws that say they can't have them, and that they can't kill people, so how would a new law requiring them to turn guns in suddenly compel them to comply? There is also no equivalent to the second amendment in Australia, so there's a deep rooted cultural difference. Conservatives keep there guns more for defense against government and war as much as self defense against criminals.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-03-2017, 8:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
No bullet proof windows, too expensive, much cheaper to just put a sniper in the best position to take out mass murderers who start shooting. I am not worried about going to football games with 100,000 people, because there are several towers, that would be great positions for snipers, but they are all patrolled by police.
That's a pretty good idea.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-03-2017, 9:01 AM Reply   
Bulletproof windows? I don't see how someone can reasonably say that what we need is more bulletproof windows.

Same goes the the "mental illness" argument. This dude wasn't mentally ill. Mentally ill peeps don't manage to own properties in multiple states, a $50K+ gun collection, a plane, etc (he appears to be "self made," not a John DuPont). No way no how he'd have failed a mental health exam.

How long before we just all have bulletproof trenchcoats?

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

If it helps you sleep at night to say that he's ANTIFA (lol) or ISIS or whatever then OK. But someday we'll have to acknowledge that firearms can be dangerous in the hands of humans. If we can outlaw lawn darts, why can't we regulate guns? I know I know, lawn darts aren't "arms" for second amendment purposes.

My own personal guess (and it's purely just that), given that he appeared to be shooting from a pretty pimp room (those two smashed windows are way farther apart than I've ever had in any room) and that he's a regular gambler, is that he got in too deep somewhere, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were at the Mandalay. I'm guessing that the room was comped. Zero facts, just speculating. But people do funny things when they think there's no way out. But I'd certainly put a $20 on him having an outstanding marker there.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-03-2017, 9:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Bulletproof windows? I don't see how someone can reasonably say that what we need is more bulletproof windows.

Same goes the the "mental illness" argument. This dude wasn't mentally ill. Mentally ill peeps don't manage to own properties in multiple states, a $50K+ gun collection, a plane, etc (he appears to be "self made," not a John DuPont). No way no how he'd have failed a mental health exam.

How long before we just all have bulletproof trenchcoats?

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

If it helps you sleep at night to say that he's ANTIFA (lol) or ISIS or whatever then OK. But someday we'll have to acknowledge that firearms can be dangerous in the hands of humans. If we can outlaw lawn darts, why can't we regulate guns? I know I know, lawn darts aren't "arms" for second amendment purposes.

My own personal guess (and it's purely just that), given that he appeared to be shooting from a pretty pimp room (those two smashed windows are way farther apart than I've ever had in any room) and that he's a regular gambler, is that he got in too deep somewhere, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were at the Mandalay. I'm guessing that the room was comped. Zero facts, just speculating. But people do funny things when they think there's no way out. But I'd certainly put a $20 on him having an outstanding marker there.
You seriously dismissed completely plausible reasons & boiled it down to the guns fault & his gambling. He is a mutli millionaire who according to the articles just started within the last week betting 30k a day. That doesn't equal anywhere near the mans networth. This was premeditated over weeks of planning. He's been in the room for over a week & was slowly suit-casing in the weapons. This wasn't spur of the moment & it wasn't due to gambling debts. LOL all you want, you're just as wrong as the LOL you tossed out there.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-03-2017, 9:29 AM Reply   
Confirmed; He booked that specific suite, checked in Thur & was "utilizing some of his GF's identifications". Call it what you want, it wasn't a snap because of gambling debts. We may never know the truth, but it is clear this was premeditated & planned.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-03-2017, 9:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Bulletproof windows? I don't see how someone can reasonably say that what we need is more bulletproof windows.

Same goes the the "mental illness" argument. This dude wasn't mentally ill. Mentally ill peeps don't manage to own properties in multiple states, a $50K+ gun collection, a plane, etc (he appears to be "self made," not a John DuPont). No way no how he'd have failed a mental health exam.

How long before we just all have bulletproof trenchcoats?

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

If it helps you sleep at night to say that he's ANTIFA (lol) or ISIS or whatever then OK. But someday we'll have to acknowledge that firearms can be dangerous in the hands of humans. If we can outlaw lawn darts, why can't we regulate guns? I know I know, lawn darts aren't "arms" for second amendment purposes.

My own personal guess (and it's purely just that), given that he appeared to be shooting from a pretty pimp room (those two smashed windows are way farther apart than I've ever had in any room) and that he's a regular gambler, is that he got in too deep somewhere, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were at the Mandalay. I'm guessing that the room was comped. Zero facts, just speculating. But people do funny things when they think there's no way out. But I'd certainly put a $20 on him having an outstanding marker there.
No was was "reasonably" suggesting bullet proof windows, bud. You took that a little too literally.

You can't regulate guns. And if you somehow managed to take them all away from everyone, crazy's would drive trucks into crowds like they do in the UK. Bombs, Airplanes......whatever.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-03-2017, 10:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
No was was "reasonably" suggesting bullet proof windows, bud. You took that a little too literally.

You can't regulate guns. And if you somehow managed to take them all away from everyone, crazy's would drive trucks into crowds like they do in the UK. Bombs, Airplanes......whatever.
No worries, wasn't you in particular on the BP windows... I heard it multiple times yesterday.

Can you give an example of something we CAN successfully regulate? Drugs? Murder? Rape? Moonshine? Just because criminals continue to break laws isn't really a good argument for anarchy.

And regulation doesn't mean taking guns away from everyone. I agree that's an unreasonable goal.

bump stocks and trigger cranks seem like pretty low hanging fruit for regulation at the moment tho.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-03-2017, 10:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
You seriously dismissed completely plausible reasons & boiled it down to the guns fault & his gambling. He is a mutli millionaire who according to the articles just started within the last week betting 30k a day. That doesn't equal anywhere near the mans networth. This was premeditated over weeks of planning. He's been in the room for over a week & was slowly suit-casing in the weapons. This wasn't spur of the moment & it wasn't due to gambling debts. LOL all you want, you're just as wrong as the LOL you tossed out there.
Not a week... since Thursday.

I never said it wasn't premeditated. In fact my implication was quite the opposite. You don't get big markers overnight. 30k a day for the last week, OK.. My Q is how up or down is he over the last 12 mos? Casinos can be very accommodating to high rollers.

I totally do agree that it was premeditated.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-03-2017, 10:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
You anti gun nuts act like he just went & bought a stock pile the day before. It's been years of buying & probably had no intention of using them in this fashion during those times. It seems rather obvious at this point between what was on his FB page, the pics of him in a pussy hat, who the targets were he had an agenda. One that is egged on by the left out of their blind hatred for the opposition. We've allowed calls to violence for political gain for far too long. Conservatives sitting on facebook with their "we got all the guns, what they gonna do" bull****. The new ANTIFA stuff. We have a people problem, not a gun problem.
My "social" liberal friend! I don't think mass shootings should come down to a right vs left problem because they're so far off the edge it doesn't matter, but I'm pretty sure right wing extremism is on par or wins that debate. You're already trying to make it out like this guy is some crazy liberal with no proof. If he is, then **** him, if he is a Trump guy, **** him. What does it matter? I don't have blind hatred for anybody, just as I don't think you do. People who commit mass shootings are so far gone that political motives don't come into play IMO.

The fact that he was allowed to "stock pile" enough guns for a militia is a ****ing problem and shouldn't be allowed. You want a hand gun, go for it. You want a rifle, you get tested every year for psychological issues. What in the **** do you need a high capacity magazine for except murdering people? Seriously.
Attached Images
 
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-03-2017, 10:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
My "social" liberal friend! I don't think mass shootings should come down to a right vs left problem because they're so far off the edge it doesn't matter, but I'm pretty sure right wing extremism is on par or wins that debate. You're already trying to make it out like this guy is some crazy liberal with no proof. If he is, then **** him, if he is a Trump guy, **** him. What does it matter? I don't have blind hatred for anybody, just as I don't think you do. People who commit mass shootings are so far gone that political motives don't come into play IMO.

The fact that he was allowed to "stock pile" enough guns for a militia is a ****ing problem and shouldn't be allowed. You want a hand gun, go for it. You want a rifle, you get tested every year for psychological issues. What in the **** do you need a high capacity magazine for except murdering people? Seriously.
We have such a mental health shortage in our country there wouldn't be anyone available for the check in. Ever try to see a shrink? 12 weeks out if they are even taking new patients. I find it amazing that you use graphs like that then argue that the actions of a few should effect gun owners with a safe full that have done no harm to anyone. People who commit mass murder were almost always motivated by something, be it politics, hate, racism, etc. About the only incident I can think of is the whack job at Sandy Hook. But he was so damn medicated, and dare I say, there probably shouldn't have been fire arms in that house with that kids mental health history. But your wish for mental health exams won't work either. This guy would've passed & beyond that who is the one that dictates what level of crazy you can be at? Anyone whos tried an anti depressant? You can't have your CC in Colo if you have a medical pot card. That is silly to paint smokers with that broad brush but that is exactly what we will end up with. I still don't get how people like you will argue there's nothing to be done about terrorism without giving up freedom but for some reason the blanket answer to shootings is always to take the guns. Mathematically speaking there are millions of guns out there & only .0001% get used in these crimes. I see your point & agree on some more common sense laws, but I sure as hell don't want someone telling me I can't keep filling my safe with rifles. I enjoy shooting them, collecting them, building them up & I along with countless others would never commit such depravity.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-03-2017, 10:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Not a week... since Thursday.

I never said it wasn't premeditated. In fact my implication was quite the opposite. You don't get big markers overnight. 30k a day for the last week, OK.. My Q is how up or down is he over the last 12 mos? Casinos can be very accommodating to high rollers.

I totally do agree that it was premeditated.
Well hopefully we get some real answers.

New report is he was checked in under his GF's name & he wired 100k to the Philippines last week. I don't think this had anything to do with gambling debts.

Last edited by racer808; 10-03-2017 at 10:30 AM.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-03-2017, 10:37 AM Reply   
Yeah like I said pure pure pure speculation on my part (but based on being a life long NV resident who has known more than a few degenerate gamblers).

If I'm right I think we'll know pretty soon. MGM (owner of Mandalay) is public so I don't think they'd just be able to quietly rip up the marker like the old days.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-03-2017, 10:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
My "social" liberal friend! I don't think mass shootings should come down to a right vs left problem because they're so far off the edge it doesn't matter, but I'm pretty sure right wing extremism is on par or wins that debate. You're already trying to make it out like this guy is some crazy liberal with no proof. If he is, then **** him, if he is a Trump guy, **** him. What does it matter? I don't have blind hatred for anybody, just as I don't think you do. People who commit mass shootings are so far gone that political motives don't come into play IMO.

The fact that he was allowed to "stock pile" enough guns for a militia is a ****ing problem and shouldn't be allowed. You want a hand gun, go for it. You want a rifle, you get tested every year for psychological issues. What in the **** do you need a high capacity magazine for except murdering people? Seriously.
Pistols are used to kill way more people than the rifle you're so upset with. The media has done a great job with that one.

And why do I need an AR with a high cap magazine? To protect mine from the criminals that already have them and the violent protestors that may attempt to threaten my family. Mine rides along on every family road trip. Don't like them? Don't get one.

In France last August a terrorist drove a truck into a crowd of people and killed 86 people. How can people not understand that the guns don't matter.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-03-2017, 10:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
We have such a mental health shortage in our country there wouldn't be anyone available for the check in. Ever try to see a shrink? 12 weeks out if they are even taking new patients. I find it amazing that you use graphs like that then argue that the actions of a few should effect gun owners with a safe full that have done no harm to anyone. People who commit mass murder were almost always motivated by something, be it politics, hate, racism, etc. About the only incident I can think of is the whack job at Sandy Hook. But he was so damn medicated, and dare I say, there probably shouldn't have been fire arms in that house with that kids mental health history. But your wish for mental health exams won't work either. This guy would've passed & beyond that who is the one that dictates what level of crazy you can be at? Anyone whos tried an anti depressant? You can't have your CC in Colo if you have a medical pot card. That is silly to paint smokers with that broad brush but that is exactly what we will end up with. I still don't get how people like you will argue there's nothing to be done about terrorism without giving up freedom but for some reason the blanket answer to shootings is always to take the guns. Mathematically speaking there are millions of guns out there & only .0001% get used in these crimes. I see your point & agree on some more common sense laws, but I sure as hell don't want someone telling me I can't keep filling my safe with rifles. I enjoy shooting them, collecting them, building them up & I along with countless others would never commit such depravity.
I truly don't think you would commit a crime as such as that, but being able to stock pile weapons like this guy makes the crime absolutely devastating when somebody who WILL commit that crime pulls the trigger. Like I said, keep your gun, but I don't think you need a safe full of rifles. When that amendment was put into the constitution I don't think the forefathers ever dreamed up a scenario where a guy could shoot 600 people by himself. That was musket times.

Just take a look at America vs other countries and the gun violence vs gun ownership. You're really saying there is no correlation between the amount of guns in the country and the amount of gun violence?
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-03-2017, 10:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Pistols are used to kill way more people than the rifle you're so upset with. The media has done a great job with that one.

And why do I need an AR with a high cap magazine? To protect mine from the criminals that already have them and the violent protestors that may attempt to threaten my family. Mine rides along on every family road trip. Don't like them? Don't get one.

In France last August a terrorist drove a truck into a crowd of people and killed 86 people. How can people not understand that the guns don't matter.
I completely agree with the pistols, but for the most part those are homicides engaged between 2 people and not mass murders. I'm not all that worried about a nut job shooting up a crowd with a hand gun. That mandalay bay thing would be quite different with a guy in a window and a 9mm.

How often have you heard of a story where a guy with an AR protected his family? I can see a concealed carry helping out, but I just don't hear these heroic stories of people taking down bad guys with AR's. Mainly people have AR's because they're badass and enjoy them.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-03-2017, 10:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
In France last August a terrorist drove a truck into a crowd of people and killed 86 people. How can people not understand that the guns don't matter.
Prolly because of the 89 shot at eagles of death metal terrorist attack in france in 2015?

I totally see your point (that terrorism is unpredictable, and that bad folks will improvise). But to carry your argument to its logical conclusion shouldn't you be arguing that we should get rid of CDL licenses so that I can get a semi tractor too because a terrorist might have one?
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-03-2017, 11:11 AM Reply   
As most of know the more guns less crimes. Who is the right wing crackpot that states this?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe.../#45d387db3f7c
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       10-03-2017, 11:14 AM Reply   
One question. I have heard the videos of the shooting. It didn't really sound like more guns mattered. He would shoot a bunch, pause and repeat. If he had one rifle or 16 does it matter as long as he had enough ammo to reload?
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-03-2017, 11:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Don't get me wrong my heart goes out to you guys but it all just seems so pointless
And if we come from it at a rational rather then a emotional standpoint what new laws would have stopped this guy?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-03-2017, 11:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
So the Las Vegas shooter used a machine gun to mow down the people at the venue. Very sad . How many times have machine guns been used in a crime since 1934?
AP is reporting semi-auto with a bump stock (legal mod).
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-03-2017, 11:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
Well hopefully we get some real answers.

New report is he was checked in under his GF's name & he wired 100k to the Philippines last week. I don't think this had anything to do with gambling debts.
Very strange that after 24 hours the left is proclaiming that there is no way this guy had anything to do with ISIS , and after 1 year they can't come to the conclusion that Donald Trump did not collude with the Russians.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-03-2017, 11:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
Very strange that after 24 hours the left is proclaiming that there is no way this guy had anything to do with ISIS , and after 1 year they can't come to the conclusion that Donald Trump did not collude with the Russians.
If this had anything to do with ISIS Trump would be all over it. You should know that.
Old    Boarder85 (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       10-03-2017, 11:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
AP is reporting semi-auto with a bump stock (legal mod).
There is no reason why anyone should be able to legally obtain a bump stock. None.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-03-2017, 11:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
And if we come from it at a rational rather then a emotional standpoint what new laws would have stopped this guy?
You can't make a law to stop an individual but you can start to change the enviroment that creates these types of individuals with regulation and funding/focus. The amount of resources the US spend of anti terror relative to gun violence is unbalanced. If you scroll up you will find my idea of 4 points to get started with. Gun control isn't on it, just because socially and politically it's not a choice you guys have, even if it's the most logical and quickest acting.

But like I said, illustrated by the bickering on this thread alone you can tell nothing will change, these events are going to keep coming, probably at a faster and faster rate. Get used to them or agitate for change, that's your two options as i see it.

Last edited by ralph; 10-03-2017 at 11:55 AM.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-03-2017, 11:55 AM Reply   
Oh, and yes events like this are loud and noisy and dominate the news for a week or so but in terms of numbers its tiny compared to the number of people killed cumulatively by guns over the year. This event is literally a drop in the bucket. So while you are thinking about bullet proof glass and snipers guns are quietly killing you unimpeded in the back ground.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-03-2017, 11:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
I truly don't think you would commit a crime as such as that, but being able to stock pile weapons like this guy makes the crime absolutely devastating when somebody who WILL commit that crime pulls the trigger. Like I said, keep your gun, but I don't think you need a safe full of rifles. When that amendment was put into the constitution I don't think the forefathers ever dreamed up a scenario where a guy could shoot 600 people by himself. That was musket times.

Just take a look at America vs other countries and the gun violence vs gun ownership. You're really saying there is no correlation between the amount of guns in the country and the amount of gun violence?
I don't. I think we have a problem where violence is glorified. What's odd to me on this one is as of now, no manifesto, no links, no statements about why he did this. Most people who do these things make it known why. There is so much wrong with this I am not even ruling out conspiracy at this point. Our forefathers, if they had automatic weapons, would most certainly be for them considering the long bloody fight to make us a free nation. They wouldn't assume these mass murders because weren't all ****ed up like they are now. There is no value on human life in this country & both sides openly discussing killing each other on facebook & other platforms over politics. The gun isn't the problem.
Old    Fat-B (lugwrench)      Join Date: Jul 2002       10-03-2017, 11:58 AM Reply   
I agree with Ralph, I think the people of this country have spoken that this is just part of our culture. Two weeks from now nothing will have changed and this will be swept under the rug. We'll shrug our collective shoulders and reset the "It has been [X] number of days since our last mass shooting" sign.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-03-2017, 11:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
Very strange that after 24 hours the left is proclaiming that there is no way this guy had anything to do with ISIS , and after 1 year they can't come to the conclusion that Donald Trump did not collude with the Russians.
The left in this country thinks they are doing what's right. Their masters on the other hand are straight evil & love their useful idiots.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-03-2017, 12:00 PM Reply   
As an example, let's compare how you guys do relative to other countries. Check the stats on hand guns. Either you guys just really like killing each other or access to hand guns has some effect on the rate you kill each other/yourselves. You decide, are you terrible people or are you in a terrible enviroment.
Attached Images
 
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-03-2017, 12:01 PM Reply   
Okay so lets pretend everyone has turned in their guns. Now we only have to deal with the illegal guns that are left over. Then what? The minds & hearts have not been changed. There are still going to be murderous people out there & one happens to run over 100 most of you going to argue "well there's nothing that can be done about that". Again, the gun isn't the problem. Humans are.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-03-2017, 12:01 PM Reply   
It's absurd to say "well it's just gonna happen anyway." How about if it were to happen once every 25 years instead of once a year? Would that be worth some changes to our approach to guns and/or mental health?

Supposedly the terrorist used this bump fire method.

Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-03-2017, 12:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
As an example, let's compare how you guys do relative to other countries. Check the stats on hand guns. Either you guys just really like killing each other or access to hand guns has some effect on the rate you kill each other/yourselves. You decide, are you terrible people or are you in a terrible enviroment.
Your meme leaves out a good majority of our gun deaths are suicide. Most of the violent gun crime occurs in cities with tough gun laws in place. Again, it's the humans, not the gun. The gun is just a tool. Like most leftists.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-03-2017, 12:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
Okay so lets pretend everyone has turned in their guns. Now we only have to deal with the illegal guns that are left over. Then what? The minds & hearts have not been changed. There are still going to be murderous people out there & one happens to run over 100 most of you going to argue "well there's nothing that can be done about that". Again, the gun isn't the problem. Humans are.
Maybe 50-100 years down the road things will be different from gun control. You straight up can't argue the correlation between gun deaths in America and the amount of guns in America.
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-03-2017, 12:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
You can't make a law to stop an individual but you can start to change the enviroment that creates these types of individuals with regulation and funding/focus. The amount of resources the US spend of anti terror relative to gun violence is unbalanced. If you scroll up you will find my idea of 4 points to get started with. Gun control isn't on it, just because socially and politically it's not a choice you guys have, even if it's the most logical and quickest acting.

But like I said, illustrated by the bickering on this thread alone you can tell nothing will change, these events are going to keep coming, probably at a faster and faster rate. Get used to them or agitate for change, that's your two options as i see it.
Exactly. He broke all the laws. We have laws in place already. Taking the emotional aspect part out of the equation to prevent mass murder. Your so called logical answer would be gun control. Don't forget that the law abiding gun owners are not doing this. In fact more legal guns have brought down crimes. This guy spent alot of money and alot of planning with the best logistical point to commit this murder. I know it is very sad and we all are mourning about the deaths and injuries hat occurred. I do not like guns at all, and i am sure there would be alot less legal guns if the government would do more to the criminals who use them.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-03-2017, 12:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
Your meme leaves out a good majority of our gun deaths are suicide. Most of the violent gun crime occurs in cities with tough gun laws in place. Again, it's the humans, not the gun. The gun is just a tool. Like most leftists.
So are you saying Americans hy nature are the most violent humans in the OECD? Why? Genetics?
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-03-2017, 12:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
Exactly. He broke all the laws. We have laws in place already. Taking the emotional aspect part out of the equation to prevent mass murder. Your so called logical answer would be gun control. Don't forget that the law abiding gun owners are not doing this.
What gun laws did he break prior to this incident?
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-03-2017, 12:19 PM Reply   
Lets start with murder. Are lawful gun owners going around killing people.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-03-2017, 12:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
Your meme leaves out a good majority of our gun deaths are suicide. Most of the violent gun crime occurs in cities with tough gun laws in place. Again, it's the humans, not the gun. The gun is just a tool. Like most leftists.
Fine, take 60% of the figure, your still at 4,000. Does that change the perspective at all?

Yes, the gun is just a tool. But as far as tools go is extremely effective and efficent at killing people, if you take the ready access to that tool away the total damage will go down just due to efficiency loss.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-03-2017, 12:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
Lets start with murder. Are lawful gun owners going around killing people.
Yes, yes they are. Do you know that you are twice as likely to be killed by a gun by a law abiding American by accident in the US than you are murdered in NZ by any means, gun or otherwise.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-03-2017, 12:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
I completely agree with the pistols, but for the most part those are homicides engaged between 2 people and not mass murders. I'm not all that worried about a nut job shooting up a crowd with a hand gun. That mandalay bay thing would be quite different with a guy in a window and a 9mm.

How often have you heard of a story where a guy with an AR protected his family? I can see a concealed carry helping out, but I just don't hear these heroic stories of people taking down bad guys with AR's. Mainly people have AR's because they're badass and enjoy them.
You don't often hear about a guy shooting people from the window of a hotel either, but anything can happen.

Also....go look at what the US considers a "Mass shooting". Last time I looked it was anything more than two people. So when it comes to US stats, the term Mass Shooting doesn't always mean a lot.
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-03-2017, 12:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Yes, yes they are. Do you know that you are twice as likely to be killed by a gun by a law abiding American by accident in the US than you are murdered in NZ by any means, gun or otherwise.
Not murder my friend, but that can happen and if we had the same population your country would be twice as likely to be murdered, and that is by a country that has no guns. What kind of sick ****s live in New Zealand?
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-03-2017, 12:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Fine, take 60% of the figure, your still at 4,000. Does that change the perspective at all?

Yes, the gun is just a tool. But as far as tools go is extremely effective and efficent at killing people, if you take the ready access to that tool away the total damage will go down just due to efficiency loss.
It took the gunman 10 minutes. The took the truck drive a few seconds to kill even more.

But again, criminals will never give up their guns so there's that over arching fact that defeats an argument for more gun control imo.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-03-2017, 12:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
Lets start with murder. Are lawful gun owners going around killing people.
Reading comprehension problems? No one has ever claimed he murdered anyone prior to this incident. It's pretty much a Capt Obvious statement to say that you're not breaking the law when you are obeying the law.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-03-2017, 1:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
It's absurd to say "well it's just gonna happen anyway." How about if it were to happen once every 25 years instead of once a year? Would that be worth some changes to our approach to guns and/or mental health?

Supposedly the terrorist used this bump fire method.

the bump fire stock is something I always saw as a joke. It was designed as way for yahoos to experience something close to fully automatic in a highly inacurate way. This guy unfortunately found a deadly application for it. I see these going away soon.

What this means likely is the shooter did not have "$25,000 hard to get automatic weapon" as the news is reporting. Because if you had a fully auto weapon, you wouldn't waste your time for a bump fire configuration.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-03-2017, 1:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
Not murder my friend, but that can happen and if we had the same population your country would be twice as likely to be murdered, and that is by a country that has no guns. What kind of sick ****s live in New Zealand?
I was taking per capita numbers genius. Total murder rate is 5x higher in US relative to NZ.

And your original question made no sense, murders by law abiding citizens are zero because they are law abiding.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-03-2017, 1:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
But again, criminals will never give up their guns so there's that over arching fact that defeats an argument for more gun control imo.
Is that why we have no laws about drug control?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-03-2017, 1:07 PM Reply   
Just seems odd to me that the common view is laws don't work. Ok, why have laws about anything then?

Also everybody seems to be totally on board that internationally it's fine to outlaw North Korea from having nukes but locally you can't limit guns. It's the same principal, just scaled up.
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-03-2017, 1:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Reading comprehension problems? No one has ever claimed he murdered anyone prior to this incident. It's pretty much a Capt Obvious statement to say that you're not breaking the law when you are obeying the law.
And law abiding gun owners are following the laws. He did not. There are already laws in place . We do not need new laws to prevent murder. So in turn what new laws could you possibly put in place that are not already there and not infringe on the 2nd .

Last edited by deneng; 10-03-2017 at 1:12 PM.
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-03-2017, 1:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Just seems odd to me that the common view is laws don't work. Ok, why have laws about anything then?

Also everybody seems to be totally on board that internationally it's fine to outlaw North Korea from having nukes but locally you can't limit guns. It's the same principal, just scaled up.
Ralph you seem like a really nice guy. Please come on over to the U.S. and speak to some of our gang bangers. Have a beer with Antifa. Sleep with a some gender fluid soul.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-03-2017, 1:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
And law abiding gun owners are following the laws. He did not. There are already laws in place . We do not need new laws to prevent murder. So in turn what new laws could you possibly put in place that are not already there and not infringe on the 2nd .
The guy apparently was a law abiding gun owner up until this incident. Saying that law obeying gun owners don't do this is a pointless argument. The problem is the ubiquitous presence of guns in our society. Far too many to eliminate at this point regardless of how much legislating from the bench the SC does, as it did in 2008 to give you an individual right. Since this guy was law biding right up until the act it's likely that enhanced laws regarding background checks and mental issues would have not done anything to prevent this. But the individual right pretty much limits preventing mentally ill people from getting guns even after we know they have problems.

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 7:07 PM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2016 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us