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Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-21-2017, 10:28 PM Reply   
Lol
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Old    Anastazi Sarigiannis (Stazi)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-22-2017, 6:40 AM Reply   
Pretty much.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-22-2017, 7:13 AM Reply   
LOL. I like this, stealing pic
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-22-2017, 8:09 AM Reply   
https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...ims-tops-1000/
Old    Anastazi Sarigiannis (Stazi)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-22-2017, 8:11 AM Reply   
Using the Washington Post for fact checking is totally absurd
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-22-2017, 11:27 AM Reply   
Ann Coulter had a pretty spot on quote about, the left is giving who ever they don't like a Negitive label and THEN it's ok to attack that person or orgization. Example the snowflakes know the 1st admendment Trumps what ever they maybe thinking. But if you Lable what that person is saying as
"Hate Speech" or a Nazi then it's ok to attack! Or use violence or burn down, to address what they don't like to hear. Fact is anything the left doesn't like hearing is Hate Speech!
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-22-2017, 11:34 AM Reply   
Delusion at its finest. No one denies facts more than Trump and his supporters.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-22-2017, 11:53 AM Reply   
I think we need to make a distinction here.... between folks on the left, folks on the right, folks with a boner for Trump, and folks who would **** on Trump even if he was the greatest president ever.

Folks on the left - Didnt' want Trump, but we got him now. Lets hope he does well but will be critical as he fudges up .... this is where I stand. I really hope he can get his **** together and do well for the country. The economy is doing great - kudos to him. The travel ban, horseturd excuse for healthcare reform, and potential Russia non-sense isn't great. (45% of people)

Folks on the right - Maybe wanted Trump, maybed didn't but are sure happy it isn't Hillary. They give Trump the benefit of the doubt but have the stones to call him out when he is trying to do something stupid. (45% of people)

Trump Boner Patrol - These are the people who would rally behind Trump if he shot someone on 5th Ave... this a dangerous group of dip****s (5% of people)

Anti-Trump Boner Patrol - These are the folks that would be angry about over-population if Trump cured cancer.... these people are also a dangerous group because they make mountains out of mole hills and desensitize people to some of the actual bad **** Trump does. (5% of people)

.... the outter extremes are by far the minority but are loud and obnoxious, and unfortunately get TV ratings. The rest of us have to see these idtiots daily and it screws our view because it is an inaccurate representation of the other side. I think Trump has udderly failed on everything but the Economy and putting someone his base wants on the Supreme Court. Beyond that any sort of policy he has tried to work out has been pretty rough; but I would expect that from someone who is new at this type of work.

I hope the best for the USA, and if that means he is the best president that has ever been and I have to eat crow - good. I just hope those who voted for him are willing to eat that same crow and hold him accountable if things don't go so hot.

Last edited by sidekicknicholas; 08-22-2017 at 11:56 AM.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-22-2017, 12:46 PM Reply   
I can't get the image of Trump trying to milking a cow and failing miserably out of my mind now, thanks Nick lol
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       08-22-2017, 1:08 PM Reply   
The ATBP would never allow that Nick. If you are not ATBP, then you are labeled TBP no matter what.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-22-2017, 1:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
I can't get the image of Trump trying to milking a cow and failing miserably out of my mind now, thanks Nick lol
Utterly .... better? hahahahaha

Quote:
If you are not ATBP, then you are labeled TBP no matter what.
I think its a two way street though. My dad is the most liberal hippie I know .... a couple of weeks or so ago I mentioned that I thought the economy was alright and Trump has been solid on that - just like that he thought I was a MAGA guy - despite his knowledge of how much I wanted Bernie. A few nights later I had dinner with my Mother-in-Law and mentioned that Trump's white house was a bit nuts (the whole Mooch thing) and she instantly labeled me as a "socialism millennial". I just can't win.

My perfect presidential ticket would have been Bernie + Rand Paul. Lets do cool ****, but find a way to pay for it.
Old    deltahoosier            08-22-2017, 2:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
Utterly .... better? hahahahaha


My perfect presidential ticket would have been Bernie + Rand Paul. Lets do cool ****, but find a way to pay for it.
You every think we are up against the bounds of what we can pay for and still have freedom? Feels like we have reached the end of the internet on that front and now it is all window dressing.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-22-2017, 2:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
You every think we are up against the bounds of what we can pay for and still have freedom?
Nah, I still think there is a lot we can do, if we get smarter with the money - hence the Rand Paul side of things. I think the government can get the hack-n-slash in certain areas with little to no effect on the way things work.

I think single payer is still an option, I think the college grant / loan system should be re-worked to better subsidize those who actually finish / go into "needed" programs to reduce costs, pot should be legalized. I still think there is a ton of good we could do / add-on if we simply shift funding / lean up the way the funding is delivered to the end user(s).
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-22-2017, 3:28 PM Reply   
I'll be interested in single payer when they can get other Gov agencies to run correctly. The VA, DMV, Human Services are not inspiring that we'll get single payer right.
Old    Darrel F (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-22-2017, 6:05 PM Reply   
^^^concur that's the big worry. What have they ever done right. In the last month or so 2 Navy ships have crashed into cargo or oil tankers. Exactly how fast do tankers and cargo ships cruise at? Blackhawk helicopters go down while training, Osprey downed... all in the last 2 months? How about USPS? Congress? What does the government do well and efficiently? Anything?
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-22-2017, 7:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
^^^concur that's the big worry. What have they ever done right. In the last month or so 2 Navy ships have crashed into cargo or oil tankers. Exactly how fast do tankers and cargo ships cruise at? Blackhawk helicopters go down while training, Osprey downed... all in the last 2 months? How about USPS? Congress? What does the government do well and efficiently? Anything?
Not saying that the govt is efficient, but the tanker crashed into the USS McCain.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-22-2017, 8:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Not saying that the govt is efficient, but the tanker crashed into the USS McCain.
Explain to me how a civilian oil tanker can breach the "safe area" of a naval destroyer and get so close to crash without the destroyer being on guard to blow it to pieces? What's the point of having a destroyer at the ready if it and its crew can't even protect itself from a slow ass oil tanker ? Someone needs to question that command staff
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-22-2017, 11:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
when they can get other Gov agencies to run correctly
If I have the choice between inefficient Govt or a institution with one goal - make money... give me the govt. Its crazy to me there is profit to be made by middle men concerning citizen's health.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-23-2017, 4:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Explain to me how a civilian oil tanker can breach the "safe area" of a naval destroyer and get so close to crash without the destroyer being on guard to blow it to pieces? What's the point of having a destroyer at the ready if it and its crew can't even protect itself from a slow ass oil tanker ? Someone needs to question that command staff
The collision took place in one of the busiest shipping ports in the world. They simply cannot stop shipping traffic because a destroyer from a foreign country is visiting/departing. What was the destroyer supposed to do? That tanker was about 3 times the size of the McCain. Plus, and sort of weaponry that could have stopped the tanker was likely offline (radar is useless in that close of proximity). Small arms fire would have done nothing.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-23-2017, 10:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
If I have the choice between inefficient Govt or a institution with one goal - make money... give me the govt. Its crazy to me there is profit to be made by middle men concerning citizen's health.

couldn't agree more

Out of all the healthcare propositions to date, not one mention of cutting the fat out of the process. When a $375 MRI turns into a $5,000 charge to a company, another company actually pays it and nobody bats an eye, something's definitely wrong.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-23-2017, 10:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
Nah, I still think there is a lot we can do, if we get smarter with the money - hence the Rand Paul side of things. I think the government can get the hack-n-slash in certain areas with little to no effect on the way things work.

I think single payer is still an option, I think the college grant / loan system should be re-worked to better subsidize those who actually finish / go into "needed" programs to reduce costs, pot should be legalized. I still think there is a ton of good we could do / add-on if we simply shift funding / lean up the way the funding is delivered to the end user(s).
Yes, there is a lot we can do/have to do in America, and focusing on the 5% is not helping anyone. Two situations come to mind, the first is wages are not going up, so if we could tie health care with having a job, I think this would encourage people to work! There are a lot of spouses working just so their family can get health care right now. If you or your spouse don't have a job guess where you go? That's right, you get to go to the free clinic! There is a reason it's free, if you do not want to improve your position, then you get a lower tier health care that's right there with the homeless. My second position is that we have to get the gun situation under control. We now have the technology to do this to the point of the minority report, if anyone has seen the Tom cruise movie from 2002. Every gun in America gets tagged and if someone breaks into your house you can shoot them! Neither party would be willing to do what it takes to pass this legislation, but let's use some common sense when passing laws.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-23-2017, 11:14 AM Reply   
Totally disagree with tying HC to employment. You can't encourage sick people to work with the promise of HC. And you can't encourage healthy people to work with the promise of HC. Tying HC to employment implies that you are going to vector money into the HC market segment but doesn't do anything to offset the inflationary economic effect. Tying HC to employment is exactly what f**k'd up HC costs in the first place.
Old    Darrel F (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-23-2017, 1:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
When a $375 MRI turns into a $5,000 charge to a company, another company actually pays it and nobody bats an eye, something's definitely wrong.
MRI for my torn ACL they tried to charge me $4500, insurance did not cover it. I looked up online how much it should cost and negotiated it to $900. Still a little high but I learned how F'ed up the system is in the process. I also learned wakeboarding is bad for my knees.
Old    Darrel F (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-23-2017, 1:21 PM Reply   
Those Navy destroyers have the latest and greatest navigational technologies available. They are captained by the best the navy has. I am guessing an oil tanker or cargo ship travels at 10-12 knots meaning the collision course was a slow event. Kinda like a boat race. To disable 2 Destroyers in a couple months is outright embarrassing. Except there have been 4 collisions. Ouch. Fills me with confidence if these are our defense in regards to N. Korea or any other enemy. The latest was in a very busy area, the kind of area where one may want to pay attn. to traffic.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/uss-mccain-...ry?id=49333429
Old    deltahoosier            08-23-2017, 1:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Those Navy destroyers have the latest and greatest navigational technologies available. They are captained by the best the navy has. I am guessing an oil tanker or cargo ship travels at 10-12 knots meaning the collision course was a slow event. Kinda like a boat race. To disable 2 Destroyers in a couple months is outright embarrassing. Except there have been 4 collisions. Ouch. Fills me with confidence if these are our defense in regards to N. Korea or any other enemy. The latest was in a very busy area, the kind of area where one may want to pay attn. to traffic.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/uss-mccain-...ry?id=49333429
Some people are concerned about cyber attacks on the navigation systems of the civilian ships.
Old    Darrel F (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-23-2017, 4:00 PM Reply   
^^^that is the first I heard of this. I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say BS. So, what about the nav systems of the greatest navy in the history of mankind? Do they buy those guys binoculars with night vision? I see them on sale at Big 5 Sporting Goods.

Last edited by 95sn; 08-23-2017 at 4:03 PM.
Old    deltahoosier            08-23-2017, 4:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
^^^that is the first I heard of this. I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say BS. So, what about the nav systems of the greatest navy in the history of mankind? Do they buy those guys binoculars with night vision? I see them on sale at Big 5 Sporting Goods.
I don't think they are hacking us. I think they were suggesting the commercial ships. I agree, they should be standing watch on our ships. Something seems a little off.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-24-2017, 7:56 AM Reply   
The suspected hack wasn't on the Navy it was against maritime shipping GPS satellites. The tanker hit the destroyer, not the other way around.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-24-2017, 2:55 PM Reply   
Nathan forest was the founder,"said to be the founder" of the KKK. Most know for his "midnight mascar" in Aug 1867, He was a democrat killing blacks and white republicans trying to stop the vote. His monument is in rome Georgia, myrtle hill cemetery" I believe robert e lee was a democrat as well. seems everyone, on the extreme left or maybe just left, wants to pass judgment on our history, but I have not heard any republican mentioning Robert e lee was a democrat or the head of the KKK was a democrat. Maybe we should ask CNN if that matters.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-24-2017, 4:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Totally disagree with tying HC to employment. You can't encourage sick people to work with the promise of HC. And you can't encourage healthy people to work with the promise of HC. Tying HC to employment implies that you are going to vector money into the HC market segment but doesn't do anything to offset the inflationary economic effect. Tying HC to employment is exactly what f**k'd up HC costs in the first place.
OK then, No free health care for you!
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-24-2017, 4:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
MRI for my torn ACL they tried to charge me $4500, insurance did not cover it. I looked up online how much it should cost and negotiated it to $900. Still a little high but I learned how F'ed up the system is in the process. I also learned wakeboarding is bad for my knees.
Maybe that's what happens when you insure 25 million people who cannot afford it! Any one else notice their insurance has gone to crap? Last month the Doctor told my wife the insurance company would cover a procedure, then we get a $1200 bill in the mail! I have notice more crap going on in the last two years than the previous 30 years combined!
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-25-2017, 6:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
Maybe that's what happens when you insure 25 million people who cannot afford it! Any one else notice their insurance has gone to crap? Last month the Doctor told my wife the insurance company would cover a procedure, then we get a $1200 bill in the mail! I have notice more crap going on in the last two years than the previous 30 years combined!
No free heath care for you either I guess.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-25-2017, 8:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
Maybe that's what happens when you insure 25 million people who cannot afford it! Any one else notice their insurance has gone to crap? Last month the Doctor told my wife the insurance company would cover a procedure, then we get a $1200 bill in the mail! I have notice more crap going on in the last two years than the previous 30 years combined!
Ahh the old "hospital fee".

MRI: If my deductible hadn't already been met, I would've had to pay a radiologist $500 to read the damn thing. In addition to ridiculous prices across the board, now you have fork over CASH to the docs actually doing the work. Honestly, I don't blame them. I'm sure its a HUGE PITA to work in such a f'd up environment.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-25-2017, 9:46 AM Reply   
I switched to a health savings account. Sucks that my daughters surgery emptied it but I don't just pay for a PPO that may not be used. I keep that monthly money & it makes interest. Everything I contribute is pre-tax which brings my liability down at the end of the year. Once you get over 10k you invest it much like a 401k. When I retire that money is all moved into my 401k. It still covers prescriptions & basic health needs, yearly physical. But bigger things, broken bones, xrays, etc it is paid from my account till my deductible ($1500.00 for individual) is met then it turns into a standard 80/20 plan. Probably the best thing to come out of the Bush administration.

Our healthcare is broken due to over regulation & Obamacare was never meant to help, it was intentionally designed to crash the system, jack up the rates, the youth who never enjoyed affordable insurance are just thrust into how expensive insurance is & begin to support single payer. How many millions of people chose to pay the fine instead of getting insurance due to the penalty vs cost of a plan. Last I read it was over 6 million. If anyone wanted to sit down & do the math it's pretty easy to figure out the cost of your premiums will not go down, it'll be erased & you will pay same if not more in taxes to fund the "free" healthcare. Let insurance cross state lines, get rid of some of the regulations & idiotic amount of paperwork & things will slightly drop (it would drop more but it's not like the companies are going to pass all those savings to us). I also don't get the argument that it's our responsibility to cover the Illegals insurance / medicaid when every other socialized country is cracking down immigrants collecting social services. It is simply not feasible to open the door wide open.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-26-2017, 2:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
I switched to a health savings account. Sucks that my daughters surgery emptied it but I don't just pay for a PPO that may not be used. I keep that monthly money & it makes interest. Everything I contribute is pre-tax which brings my liability down at the end of the year. Once you get over 10k you invest it much like a 401k. When I retire that money is all moved into my 401k. It still covers prescriptions & basic health needs, yearly physical. But bigger things, broken bones, xrays, etc it is paid from my account till my deductible ($1500.00 for individual) is met then it turns into a standard 80/20 plan. Probably the best thing to come out of the Bush administration.

Our healthcare is broken due to over regulation & Obamacare was never meant to help, it was intentionally designed to crash the system, jack up the rates, the youth who never enjoyed affordable insurance are just thrust into how expensive insurance is & begin to support single payer. How many millions of people chose to pay the fine instead of getting insurance due to the penalty vs cost of a plan. Last I read it was over 6 million. If anyone wanted to sit down & do the math it's pretty easy to figure out the cost of your premiums will not go down, it'll be erased & you will pay same if not more in taxes to fund the "free" healthcare. Let insurance cross state lines, get rid of some of the regulations & idiotic amount of paperwork & things will slightly drop (it would drop more but it's not like the companies are going to pass all those savings to us). I also don't get the argument that it's our responsibility to cover the Illegals insurance / medicaid when every other socialized country is cracking down immigrants collecting social services. It is simply not feasible to open the door wide open.
"Insurance crossing state lines" is one of the worst ideas ever mentioned by politicians. Unless the sick have a lot of money, they will not be able to afford any coverage. The price tag commanded for older and less than pristine health would cause a crisis. Then of course, those with pre-existing conditions would be screwed.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-29-2017, 12:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Delusion at its finest. No one denies facts more than Trump and his supporters.
I want to argue that statement, but instead I'll leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piwaBO6U43U
Old    deltahoosier            08-29-2017, 1:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
I want to argue that statement, but instead I'll leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piwaBO6U43U
Larry Elder schooled that fool.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-31-2017, 1:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Larry Elder schooled that fool.
with lots of common sense. not the typical narrative, especially from a black guy
Old    deltahoosier            08-31-2017, 1:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
with lots of common sense. not the typical narrative, especially from a black guy
Unfortunately, Larry's talking points are exactly what conservatives have been saying for years (and so has he). Difference is, Conservatives are labeled as racist for saying it. Larry is labeled an Uncle Tom for saying it.

Equal rights are not special rights. The war on poverty has worked to perfection as sociologists have known forever that the destruction of the family creates a reliance on the state.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-31-2017, 2:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Unfortunately, Larry's talking points are exactly what conservatives have been saying for years (and so has he). Difference is, Conservatives are labeled as racist for saying it. Larry is labeled an Uncle Tom for saying it.

Equal rights are not special rights. The war on poverty has worked to perfection as sociologists have known forever that the destruction of the family creates a reliance on the state.
Oh please, 50% of marriages end in divorce in this country. It's not just the poor black kids growing up without a father in the home.

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