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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through April 17, 2007

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Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-27-2007, 7:09 AM Reply   
Nicolet, thats what I was referring to in regard to recycling. We still dont use any less energy or resources. IOW all our effort doesnt even make a dent in it.

So tell me, what did your family do in regards to the eminent ice age that scientists said was coming? Do you live in an underground shelter? Do you have stockpiles of food?

If not, how did you know not to? Did you do something to stop the ice age?
Old     (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-27-2007, 7:29 AM Reply   
There is a lot of hype surrounding climate change, but it is fairly clear that the consequences of human behavior affect climate change. I do my best to conserve and preserve the Earth and the limited resources we have.

I don't take extremist actions either way, whether it is living in fear of some impending doom or propagating the belief that there is nothing we can do...

Science is not always 100% accurate, but it is one of the best things we have. It is also continuously developing and improving...even so in the case of global warming, it is fair to say that human behavior has caused climate change, even if it is not clear yet whether it is the sole cause
Old     (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       03-27-2007, 8:31 AM Reply   
"Ok, lets say the scientists speculations and guesses are right. ... if your going to make a significant decrease in greenhouse gasses or CO2 then you got to get rid of a significant percentage of people. Who goes?"

Well if scientists are right then global warming will lead to a quite inhospitable planet so the question of who goes will be answered quite handily by that. The global warming would lead to a lack of resources which would lead to a lack of population. You could play out that scenario or you could do what you can to keep the world as hospitable as possible. It may or may not really make a difference in the end. In my opinion, it's probably best to do what you reasonably can to help out without falling into an -ism and becoming an -ist.

And I think it's already been pointed out somewhere up the line but global warming will do nothing but make wakeboarding even better by extending the season and keeping the water warmer in the off-season. It's the politicians you have to watch out for.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-27-2007, 8:33 AM Reply   
Nicolet, that is how most everyone is. Everyone is willing to consider the honest truth and act accordingly. However, people want to know that the effort they put into it is actually doing something. We dont know if humans are contributing enough to even matter or if what they do contribute is even a causing factor. The actual data is fairly limited. Its the educated guesses that are so vast and detailed. The same is true for the ice age. It was a reasonable guess with the limited data available. The speculation that humans are the reason the global temp is rising is a reasonable guess. However, we cannot force change with massive financial impact on a guess.

Now, have you seen the rate at which they say this temp increase is occuring? Its slow enough that we could spend the next 100 years finding out for certain what the precise cause is, then act.

Anytime the conservation involves money changing hands (credits), you should be a little more than skeptical.
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-27-2007, 10:14 AM Reply   
Alright...now I dunit! I was only using sarcasm when I said I would sell my boat because I want to do my part on Global Warming yesterday. A dealer saw this...I sold my boat today. Hey more than what I owe. The blue book value, and the amount...I am coming out on the better end of the deal. So now what do I do? Should I get a new Seadoo with that supercharged four stroke four cyclinder. Or try to find an E85 or biodiesel wakeboat? And if they are not on the market...I guess I can wait until they do come to market. And meanwhile bum rides from others. Wish we had a cable park in Michigan. At least I will not have to fill up to the tune of $3 plus per gallon. The dealer is acting as a broker for someone who is looking for a rig like mine. Signing papers right after work. Then they are picking it up this weekend.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-27-2007, 10:57 AM Reply   
Buy some kites. Once you go to kites, boats are boring.
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-27-2007, 12:35 PM Reply   
Jason....have to drive a ways to kite. At least kite where it would be fun. Lots of inland lakes here in the mitten state. But just little chop..no big waves until you get out on the open great lakes. That is where the fun is at. I wanna grab a couple hours after work from time to time. Heading to the great lakes is too far for that. I need a new pull to do so. A high end PWC might do the trick. compact, easy to store. Does not use as much fuel. Has a catalytic converter on the exhaust, four cyclinder engine or is it three!...good for the environment. Only thing is operation times that are allowed. That stinks! Get a pontoon for cruisin during the after hours, I guess.
Old     (foxrepdc)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-27-2007, 12:45 PM Reply   
Dude I was thinking about selling but I'm am going to sit tight.....I may have a lakehouse right where I am now! Boo ya!
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-27-2007, 1:10 PM Reply   
no way, the smoother the water the better for wakestyle riders. Waves are fun too, but you want smooth or slightly choppy water to really load up and do your wakeboarding tricks. You load and pop just like on a cable, or hit the random rogue wake or wave and pop. You have control over height and rate of decent for learning new stuff.
Old     (scottyb)      Join Date: Sep 2002       03-27-2007, 1:20 PM Reply   
Okay this is all I am going to say about this. Human greenhouse gas contribution is 4 percent of the total in the atmosphere. Given about 6 billion people in the world and about 300 million in the US we could completely stop out greenhouse gas output (this includes our CO2 from exhaling) and not even put a dent in the total. People global warming is a scam to promote dependence on the government and provide wealth for researchers.

Reference for greenhouse gas output: www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm
Old     (foxrepdc)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-27-2007, 1:29 PM Reply   
F@*K!!! So you mean I'm NOT going to have a lakehouse now??? WTF?
Old     (deltagrubber)      Join Date: Nov 2003       03-27-2007, 2:15 PM Reply   
What I find interesting in this debate is that Gore's claim that the surface temps will rise 10 deg C in the next 100 years in the movie, yet scientists from the Cato Institute report the temp rise, based on liberal data interpolation, can only estimate a 1 degree or less rise in surface temp. That's a factor of ten difference of opinion! How can anybody discuss the appropriateness of life changing events witha disparity this huge?
Old     (craig_riddle)      Join Date: Apr 2003       03-27-2007, 3:28 PM Reply   
I haven't seen the movie, but I have read the book. I don't recall such a claim as 10C in 100 years. Your question could be related to the non-linear nature of the warming. Models show more warming at the poles than the equator, generally around an order of magnitude, which might account for your example. I believe he did put an example in the book showing something along the lines of 1F at the equator and 10F at the North pole.
Old     (craig_riddle)      Join Date: Apr 2003       03-27-2007, 5:05 PM Reply   
oops, missed this part - "Cato Institute".

I wouldn't take anything put out by any Think Tank too seriously.
Old     (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       03-27-2007, 6:21 PM Reply   
Here are a couple corrections issued by the IPCC after the "big" report and numbers used by Gore. They have gotten no media coverage.
One of the "big scares is rising sea level. This correction states that there is Zero correlation between CO2 concentration and rising sea level.

IPCC Reduces Warming Projections. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s
(IPCC) draft 2007 Fourth Assessment Report (FAR) reduces projected temperature
impact of human-induced climate change by 25 percent versus the previous (Third
Assessment Report, 2001 [TAR]) assessment. Other research puts the most likely effect of doubled CO2 on global average temperature at 3 C or less and says no evidence supports
estimates of 4.5 or more.
• IPCC Reduces Estimate of Human Contribution. The FAR’s Table of Forcings reduces
human contribution to energy absorption in the atmosphere by 35 percent from the TAR’s.
The FAR also reduces the IPCC’s estimate of the overall effect of human action on global
temperature since the Industrial Revolution in light of increasing understanding of the
cooling effect of aerosols and oceanic heat absorption. The estimated roles of variations 3
in solar energy and solar wind output in climate change have risen greatly, with recent
studies attributing nearly all or even all observed climate change to them, leaving little
warming role left for human action.
• IPCC Reduces Projected Sea Level Rise. The FAR reduces high-end projected twentyfirst
century sea level rise by 50 percent, from 34 to 17 inches. The more credible
International Union for Quaternary Research’s Sea Level Commission projects twentyfirst
century sea level rise of only 0 to 7.88 inches (0 to 0.79 inch per decade). Studies
indicate no statistical correlation between sea level changes and atmospheric CO
concentration.

(Message edited by mobv on March 27, 2007)
Old     (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       03-27-2007, 6:43 PM Reply   
Here is a link to an excellent counter point to Gores book and movie "An Inconvenient Truth"

http://www.cei.org/pdf/5539.pdf
Old     (craig_riddle)      Join Date: Apr 2003       03-27-2007, 7:28 PM Reply   
I'm glad we have so many Think Tanks too make up whatever we want to hear. CEI, CATO, AEI, Heritage... No wonder people are so confused.
Old     (sjmedic)      Join Date: May 2004       03-27-2007, 7:46 PM Reply   
Ok, then just believe Algore. He is so smart, he invented the Internet. AND he and tipper were the inspiration for the movie "Love Story". All quite believable, if you ask me.
Old     (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       03-28-2007, 3:57 AM Reply   
Everything we hear or read comes from some think tank or government funded research group that has an interest in promoting one point of view to get more money, you must read and study to decide who is most credible and who has the most practical and effective action plan.
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-28-2007, 5:01 AM Reply   
George is exactly right. Just like this thread and for the reasons I posted it in the beginning. The Global Warming activist want to eliminate boats from the water (this is the initial threat, but not likely the end result). We are a recreation (not even necessary for life and quality..this is the activist view) This really in turn will most likely mean you will be paying extra money (taxes) in the near future to continue to do your sport. The taxes in this matter will be called carbon offsets. If you have the wrong equipment (V8 engines that burn only gas) you most likely will be paying more. If you comply with new regulations...you will still pay for carbon offsets, just not as many. So what it is going to come down to, pay a lot to keep your boat that you currently have(good luck selling it once this all comes to play) Or pay less in carbon offsets but have to buy a new boat that comply to new regulations. And who is to say how long that new boat will last before the activist say "it is still too much global warming....need to restrict even more. Because the results of these studies are going to make little to no impact if the activist like Gore get their way. Remember...the ONLY place or company you can buy carbon offsets is from a company Gore owns. So when he says he pays for them...he is actually paying himself. I would really like to see where exactly "carbon offsets" money ends up. The output of CO2 might end up being the same or worst. (worst....people might get real comfortable with the idea that they are not polluters..because they bought their carbon offsets...who cares if my boat now is burning oil and becoming a mosquito fogger...i am paid up in my carbon offsets). It is almost like the leased auto...it's not mine...when I turn it in a year or two from now, it is someone else problem. The one concern would be limitation on ride times like PWCS or limitation on where you can ride. The air and water quality will be individually studied and then determined if and how many crafts will be allowed per body of water. So this could put restrictions or complete withdrawl on your favorite riding spot. I think someone said it best....make your own private water hole to ride.
Old     (jpk)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-28-2007, 10:54 AM Reply   
Carbon offsets that Gore uses are a joke. They are like Health Tokens in the movie Brazil. Soon you will start getting them as Christmas present. Before you know it, you won't be able to get a repairman to come to your house to fix the air conditioning. They will tell you that air conditioning causes global warming. You will have to hire Rober DeNiro to come over in the dead of night to fix it.
Old     (foxrepdc)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-28-2007, 11:54 AM Reply   
Al Gore invents internet.....mankind becomes dependent on internet......Al Gore invents Global Warming.....99.4% of the information available about Global warming ONLY available on the internet......Al Gore invents Mind F*&king....Al Gore is friggin' BRILLIANT!!!!
Upload
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-29-2007, 11:49 AM Reply   
Stayed tuned. My friend Brent (works in the service department for a local marina) just informed me that Catalytic converters might be required for boats running in Michigan starting this July. Some memo they got form DEQ. This is for V8 engines only (at least for this year). The cost is not going to be cheap to have it fitted to your boat either. Don't know how they are going to enforce it. Unless the police do the random stops like they currently do to check your jackets and stuff. I guess we will know more sometime next week. Plus Michigan folk...Governor is talking about increasing registration fees. Detroit News did not specifically call out boats, snowmobiles and such. But you know as I do, that once they do one thing...they go across the board with everything.
Old     (derek_h)      Join Date: Oct 2004       03-30-2007, 10:09 AM Reply   
This is best video i have seen on global warming.
Its called the "Global Warming Swindel", its well worth watching. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
I believe in taking care of out enviroment. But the whole global warming theory is baseless.

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