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Old     (bengal)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-01-2005, 1:48 PM Reply   
WARNING: To those that like to have a good time camping at Lake Don Pedro. Do not upset a Ranger, especially an elderly fellow in the Mocassin Point area. We were up there Memorial Day Weekend, having a good time. Saturday night, I invited a few other campsites to come and hang out in mine for the nite. We had a small ipod playing music, we were drinking, talking, and playing cards. Nothing crazy. The Ranger comes by at 11pm and tells us to keep it down. One girl decides to be funny and tells the ranger to f*ck off...we tell her to shut it...and the rangers has his last words of..."you'll be sorry for that." And walks away. Well half of the crew in the site go back to there own campsites. There is about 12 people left...its winding down...the ranger pulls up with 6 cops cars. All these good old boys get out and start asking who told the ranger to f*ck off. No one answers...that girl was long gone by then. So they ask for me, since I registered the campsite in my name. I follow about 8 cops up to there cars. I figurer I can help resolve the situation. They ask me one question...if I had anything to drink that nite. I reply with 3 beers. Thats really all I had. Next thing they say is hands behind your back, you are going to jail. They cuff me, and throw me in the back of the car. No chance for me to talk or explain the situation...I call for the sheriff, and ask him why I was being taken to jail. He replies with..you waisted my time, now I am waisting yours...They made up some BS about public intoxication...but I was in my campsite, and I was not drunk. So they took me to the Sonora Sheriff station...told me they were not charging me with anything, just detaining me. They made me take a breathalizer and I only blew a .062...so they put me in the cell for 10 minutes. Took me out, re-did the breathalizer and I blew .058...then they did the paperwork and released me. Problem was I didnt know where I was. I had no wallet, id, cash, anything. They took me straight from my campsite. So I get one phone call...and you cant call cell phones. So I ask for the local taxi service. Well they wont pick me up since I have no cash, plus they were not working again till 6am..and it was only 12. So basically I was stranded in a town I didnt know, with nothing. I asked the sheriffs for a ride back...but they said no...I flagged sheriffs down and asked for a ride...No...I kept bothering the lady that worked in the front...still no luck...I walked around until 4am..when finally one of my friends...somehow found the station and took me back. But I could have been stuck out in the middle of nowhere with no way back. I feel like I was harrassed. And that they should have AT LEAST taken me back to my campsite. I am wondering if there is any legal action I can take. If anyone has any ideas or advice...I welcome it
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-01-2005, 1:54 PM Reply   
That sucks, but you can't do anything about it. Take it up with the chick who ran her mouth? Who tells a cop/park ranger/sherrif/etc to anyways?
Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       06-01-2005, 1:58 PM Reply   
Damn dude, pretty much nothing ya can do except just laugh at the story. You always gotta be careful what you say to the the police or Ranger etc... I had a similar experience a couple years ago. I felt we were being harrased by some cops one night because they pretty much stopped my car cause we had a bunch of good looking gals in it. Anyway I told them what i thought and they got me out hand cuffed me the whole 9 years. They put me in the back of their car but let me out a little while later. Didnt go to jail but I think they were just trying to show me show was boss. Makes me laguh when I think abou *** now.
Old     (dcdman67)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-01-2005, 1:58 PM Reply   
Seriously who does that sh*t. Kill that chick!!!!! Anyway, she was prob sh*tfaced from chuggin hard liquor all day.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-01-2005, 2:11 PM Reply   
i seriously would've hunted the chick down and said, "she did it!"
Old     (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-01-2005, 2:20 PM Reply   
Dude, hate to say it, the cop's won this one...

Your crew and everyone on WakeWorld that reads this will likely never let a chick say FO to a ranger/cop again...
Old    clubjoeskier            06-01-2005, 2:48 PM Reply   
My 2 cents....

Answer the ranger when he/she asks you a question, and be polite AND compliant. You're lucky that biotch AND your silence didn't get you more. It probably coulda been handled on the first visit. Was everyone amused, and not trying to make the ranger feel like it was gonna be handled internally, or that he wasn't being taken seriously?

You coulda been charged with the public intox, delaying investigation, got evicted from the lake right then, and got your toys impounded (that'll cost you some money).

I can't speak for anyones behavior cuz I wasn't there, but one elderly ranger with 20 or so drinking and possibly hostile strangers can be a scary situation for anyone...he's not paid to "walk away", and perception is everything.

Had that happened in Kern County, the local deputies, CHP, and city cops could have been there within a few minutes and turned your campsite into an empty desert....

Sorry your trip got ruined...

Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-01-2005, 2:48 PM Reply   
I have seen it too many times. All it takes is one idiot(usually someone drunk) to ruin it for everyone. Chances are, if she did not open her pie hole, you guys would have quieted down, and not seen the ranger or cops all night. Sounds like it was time for a blanket party!
Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-01-2005, 2:51 PM Reply   
Joe,

You've got mail!
Old     (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       06-01-2005, 3:45 PM Reply   
You should be able to file a complaint
Old     (jeffry)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-01-2005, 3:58 PM Reply   
We got harrased also. Damn Sheriff's. We were at teh waterfall's, and Sheriff mad e me yurn off my stereo. He said shut it off, or leave
Old     (bengal)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-01-2005, 4:06 PM Reply   
The Point is...the cops/ranger should have taken her to jail. NOT ME! I was very respectful, came up to meet the sheriffs when they called my name. I tried talking to both the sheriff and the ranger once they had me cuffed and put in the back of the car. It didnt work, the ranger said someone has to pay for this, and it looks like its you. Almost as if he was laughing at me! And we did tell that chick to shut up...but I guess the damage was already done. I just felt they did something unjust. And abused there power! All they had to do was shut the party down and evict us, not take me to jail for no reason. Also the fact that they took me with no wallet and left me on my own in the middle of the Sonora Mountains, in some hick town. I couldn't been the lead role in Deliverance...

I think I am going to FILE A COMPLAINT!

Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-01-2005, 4:39 PM Reply   
I would try to file some sort of complaint. They did the same thing to me on july third a few years back. I was driving to Tahoe in my Corvette. Apparently I pissed someone off and was called in. They stopped my and told me I was under arrest for racing. I definitely wasn't racing and the people I pissed off were driving an overloaded pickup well under the speed limit and blocking traffic. The sherrifs had nothing to hold me on, but knew they could tow my car and send me to jail for the night. Same deal: no wallet, in the middle of nowhere and my car was in impound with my cell phone. I was super pissed, but completely screwed.

I have the ut-most respect for officers and rangers, but when one of them goes out of their way to use their power its very unfair and shouldn't go un-checked. They should have made a point of finding the girl, maybe taught you a lesson by cuffing you and putting you in the back of the car for a while, but you then should have been released.

Old     (bengal)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-01-2005, 5:14 PM Reply   
I feel you Evan! Its NOT fair when the cops use their power in unfair ways..they had no reason to mess with me...makes you wonder how they are suppose to protect and serve...they had no reason to teach me a lesson. I did nothing wrong. I guess we live and learn...and I learned some people use power and authority to just plain f*ck with people!
Old     (bengal)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-01-2005, 5:15 PM Reply   
Thanks guys...I am done venting now!!
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-01-2005, 5:42 PM Reply   
I'm not a lawyer, but, it's my understanding that your campsite, boat, RV, tent, etc. is not considered public. It's considered private. I would find out exactly what the law deems as public/private when it comes to campsites, and if they are considerd private I would raise hell.

I can't stand when autority flexes muscle unnecessarily. Many times they feel they can get away with it because the public doesn't know any better.

B-
Old     (mvda)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-01-2005, 5:51 PM Reply   
If you file a complaint, I would consider calling the local news station or newspaper and letting them know that you did and tell them you'd like to let them know exactly how it's handled. If the news is interested, the people handling the complaint will want to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Old     (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-01-2005, 6:16 PM Reply   
SURE!!!

Like the old man hasn't seen a campsite of mouthy A**'s before. Why should he have to accomidate your particular party when he's responcible for the entire camp grounds.

The cop told once to keep it down, it's not to your discretion how loud you can be until what time you wish in his territory. Public campgrounds are notorious for having very strict rules about noise after 10pm. They are extremely family oriented.

I would have politely asked the police if I could drag that stupid B**** over to them so they could adress the issue with her.

(Message edited by SEATTLE on June 01, 2005)
Old     (leykis1o1)      Join Date: May 2005       06-01-2005, 6:37 PM Reply   
i was about to get cited at a lake camp site for fireworks when a bomb went off like nothing you ever heard over 4th of july..i told the Ranger..i think you have a bigger problem..the cop went off in search for the bigger explosive instead..sometimes they are cool sometimes they suck
Old     (pittsy)      Join Date: Apr 2004       06-01-2005, 6:48 PM Reply   
Dude that totally SUCKS... you couldn't even explain the situation...you went from having a good time with your friends to being "stranded" in a police station....
Old    justsomeguy            06-01-2005, 7:03 PM Reply   
Here's the crux of the issue:

"No one answers...that girl was long gone by then."

From the cop's perspective they had a bunch of "troublemakers," at least one of whom mouthed off to a LEO and when these "troublemakers" where asked a direct question about who mouthed off, the "troublemakers" closed ranks to "protect" the idiot bimbo skank. That was stupid.

Having said that, the cop's retribution was petty and extremely unprofessional, if not illegal.

All of this assumes that the origianl post is truthful of course, which could also be in doubt.
Old     (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       06-01-2005, 10:32 PM Reply   
So much for "to Protect and to Serve"

Wakeboarding is NOT a crime! or partying afterwards...

Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-02-2005, 8:19 AM Reply   
That chick that told the ranger F-Off owes you a serious hummer. Tell her to S!@# it! What an idiot.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-02-2005, 8:43 AM Reply   
I like Matt's idea about the news station and I would be interested to know the public/private property laws associated with camping.

No matter the cause, the result was quite unfair. Stranding somebody in a police station without money or ID should be out of the question. At the minimum they should have given you the option to get your ID and make sure your camp is taken care of. Had you been there with a group of randoms or people that couldn't handle themselves they would have opened you up to having your boat/truck/equipment stolen or vandalized at your campsite when you weren't there. Just be glad you were there with people that had the head/care to come find you.

I'm kinda bitter about that because when they arrested me in Tahoe (what I mentioned earlier), they left my car sitting in an impound lot overnight in the rain with the roof open and all my clothing that they un packed and searched (maybe ilegally) all over the place.
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-02-2005, 8:58 AM Reply   
Out of curiousity, is telling someone (the ranger) to "f-off" illegal? Seems to me that would be covered by the 1st ammendment.

Regardless, the rest of the activity (by the officers) does indeed appear to be harrasment (assuming that the version of the story above is accurate). Might want to consult some one in the legal profession.
Old     (sloshake)      Join Date: Mar 2003       06-02-2005, 9:00 AM Reply   
When you rent a site, that site is considered your private property for the time. I've slept at Americamps in Lake Gaston a lot. I can't find the exact wording that said it, but here is how they phrase one of the rules:

3. No public consumption of alcoholic beverages. No alcoholic beverages outside of your personal camping area. No public intoxication.

and I could've sworn the rules from before said you arent allowed to walk through other campsites as it is on the level of trespassing.
Old     (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       06-02-2005, 9:06 AM Reply   
Hey Evan, if you ever get arrested in Tahoe again. Let me know, I'll bail you out bro!!!
Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-02-2005, 9:51 AM Reply   
Telling the Ranger to f-off in not illegal, just incredibly STUPID!!
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-02-2005, 10:52 AM Reply   
Scott.... What up bro? Hopefully I wont be arrested up there anytime soon, but we are going to be up there for the next two weekends, so you never know.

You planning on being at the Reno tour stop? Shoot me an e-mail with your phone #. I'll give you a call next weekend when we're up there.
Old    waterdog2            06-02-2005, 11:18 AM Reply   
Having lived in the area, I would let it go, Them boys dont play well with others. They trueley hate bay area folk's.
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-02-2005, 11:32 AM Reply   
Wonder how much the settlement was?

Let's expand:

If "f-off" = illegal, then someone gets a ticket or goes to jail.

If "f-off" = not illegal (but agreeably stupid), then someone gets a lecture and that's it.

If "f-off" = not illegal AND someone goes to jail, then harrassment has been committed.
Old    milo_lite            06-02-2005, 11:39 AM Reply   
that is freaking hillarious. iam still laughing i cant type ..jajjaja
wonder what happened after the cop founf out they had video taped him..??
Old     (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       06-02-2005, 11:43 AM Reply   
milo... that was totally staged, but looks like the gods took the video off-line.. :-( . . .
Old    milo_lite            06-02-2005, 11:46 AM Reply   
why would they take that offline it was awesome.o maybe cuase the finger .you really think its staged, man theres some crazy people that would do that, well if it was big boys just got ripped off cause the pay good cash for stuff like that
Old    mcmac64            06-02-2005, 2:58 PM Reply   
Looks Like you got what you deserve...Punks like you don’t belong on the lake with the rest or us law abiding citizens. J/K

Crystal should have been the one to go to jail! That Bitch ruined our camping trip. I only got to ride once!!!



Old     (ktmwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2004       06-02-2005, 8:34 PM Reply   
Taught him a lesson?? For what? That seems kinda silly.

Whats wrong with a little freedom of speech? Yes it was dumb of her to say that, but the huge police reaction is way out of control. "Protect and serve" is a joke IMO, and from combined experiences of family, friends, and myself, they are simply out to harrass and flex their power.

Mike- I feel for you, totally situation. I would pursue filing a complaint or any other action you can.
Old     (aidan)      Join Date: Feb 2004       06-02-2005, 9:07 PM Reply   
That story is an example why they invented lawdogs.
Old     (rvh3)      Join Date: Jul 2003       06-02-2005, 9:18 PM Reply   
There are three sides to every story.
Point A
Point B
The Truth.

I'd bet there were complaints from other campers and the Ranger has been there and done that.
Old     (sdub)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-03-2005, 7:36 AM Reply   
Maybe I am old school, but, you guys deserved it. Mabye not you, but that chick. You just do not F with authority and then think saying " Ooops, sorry, didnt mean too" should get you out of it.

And the point about getting stranded down at copland. Why didn't your buddies call right away and find out where the station was so they could come down and get you or at least find out what the sitch was.? It took 4 hrs for then too figure out where you were?
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-03-2005, 9:21 AM Reply   
S Dub,
exactly what did he deserve? He deserved to get arrested for drinking on his rented property? He deserved to be harrassed for someone else's actions?

Assuming his story is 100% true, he deserved to be left alone.
Old     (salty87)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-03-2005, 11:12 AM Reply   
i don't see harassment either, except some people harassing a park employee. it might not have been the poster but it was one of his guests, at 'his' campsite. then he tried to keep quiet when it was time to come clean. cops aren't there for games like 'i didn't say it.'

you told the cops you had been drinking and they took you to the station under suspicion of public intox. the results were not intoxicated and you were released, in a fairly timely manner. that's their version of the game.

that chick screwed you over but you didn't help yourself at all.

sucks, no doubt. how many times should the park staff and cops deal with a-holes at campsites before they get tired of it? it's not their vacation.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-03-2005, 11:35 AM Reply   
yeah, the chick screwed you, not the cops.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-03-2005, 11:37 AM Reply   

quote:

yeah, the chick screwed you, not the cops.




i concur!
Old    ren            06-03-2005, 11:49 AM Reply   
We have a winner!!!
Old     (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-03-2005, 11:58 AM Reply   
Yes. Winner found.
Old     (bengal)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-03-2005, 1:06 PM Reply   
I agree the bi@tch screwed me in the situation. HOWEVER, I handled the situation the best I could. Sheriffs asked for me, I concured with full respect. They ask ONE question, have you had anything to drink. I reply 2 or 3 beers...they never asked me who made the comment to the Ranger. That was the only question they asked, then they cuffed me and put me in the car. I tried to ask why and they told me to shut up...They took me to jail for NO REASON! I quote the sheriff.."you wasted our time, now I am going to waste yours." And I will quote the Ranger.."I dont care who said it...someone has to pay the consequences, and looks like its you."

I have been exploring this issue. Another few factors...#1- They never read me my rights...just threw me in the back of the car with no explanation. #2- They never gave me a field sobriety test, how was I suppose to be taken down to jail under suspiscion of public intoxication if they didnt test me???

YES the story is ACCURATE and TRUE...I was sober.

I am assuming if I filed a harrassment suit, it would be heard by the Toulumne County Courthouse/judge...and as we all know for a fact. Those hillbillys HATE city folks. Its obvious, they showed up at our site looking for trouble, flexing their power. They were hoping for someone to mouth off, so they could get physical, you could see it in their eyes. So if this case is heard in their town, I am sure they all know each other, probably all family...so I doubt my case could win...let alone get heard. I think I will at least call an attorney and ask what his advice is...

The television idea sounds interesting. These sheriffs DID harrass me, and if I dont do something, it will happen to someone else.

It took 4 hours for me to get picked up for several reasons. First, I asked for one friend to get the address from the sheriff. Well, our vehicle was hooked up to the boat. Everyone had been drinking, and were fearful of getting a dui. Since it was OBVIOUS that these sheriffs were out to get us. So my friend sobered up, and then searched for a spot to drop the boat...then it took him over an hour to find the jail. Since its located out in buck-f*ck egypt!

What angers me the most, is that these sheriffs did not care that I was STRANDED in the middle of nowhere. I had never been there before. I had no id and no cash. What was I suppose to do?? They should have given me a ride back to the campgrounds. I asked several times, and they didnt care. I could have tried to walk back and gotten hit by a car and died...

Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-03-2005, 1:07 PM Reply   
While I do agree..... I still think arresting him was a bit harsh. I know those guys deal with that everyday, but that just means they should have some tolerance and a level head about it.

That said, I would have had to have been there to see how it went down. We had the rangers come over to us multiple times during the spring ride and we probably had 60 people in our site (limit is 8) and they never caused us any trouble, aside from giving us a warning. We might have just been lucky, though. I wouldn't have wanted to learn the hard way since I had 3 sites in my name that I wasn't necessarily watching over at all times.

Sucks to be held liable for everyones actions. makes you really think twice about who you choose to hang out with.
Old     (bengal)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-03-2005, 1:22 PM Reply   
Makes you want to register the campsite in ficticious names!

Yes...were are looking for a Ronald McDonald...
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-03-2005, 1:24 PM Reply   
Are you guys suggesting that the police/ranger handled the situation appropriately and were justified by taking him to jail?

Old     (sdub)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-03-2005, 2:24 PM Reply   
They showed up to your site looking for trouble? You dont get it, you ( your site ) started it. Should of given up the stupid chick.

It sucks I agree. Is it unfair? Sure. But you messed with them, and they just happened to mess with you more. A lot more.

And yes, IMO deserved it.

Old     (bengal)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-03-2005, 2:28 PM Reply   
I still see this as UNJUST..plain and simple.
POWER TRIP!
Old     (isler)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-03-2005, 2:52 PM Reply   
Based on your story, can't you press charges against the officers for false imprisonment?

From Answers.com: "The person falsely imprisoned may sue the offender for damages. The suit would be brought against officials improperly issuing warrants for arrest and against private persons for any illegal total restraint of liberty."

If you were never read your Miranda rights, nor given a field sobriety test, nor told what you were being charged with or detained for, you should pursue it.

"An arrest made without legal authority called also unlawful arrest
- If a person is taken into custody, no matter how briefly, a false arrest is also false imprisonment."

I would speak to a lawyer at this point. If nobody takes a stand against wrongful police action, then it will continue, and the same thing will happen to others.
Old     (bengal)      Join Date: Mar 2004       06-03-2005, 2:59 PM Reply   
Mike...appreciate your words of wisdom...I have a call in today...we will see what comes of this..
Old     (kfcflores)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-03-2005, 3:51 PM Reply   
Your right and your wrong. I'm a cop and like everyone else chiming in I wasn't there. unfortunately your group failed the initial test which gets so many people jacked up... the attitude test. While it's not against the law common sense is you can't tell law enforcement to That being said you probably were the victim of some local good ol boys power trippin. Just learn your lesson and let it go. You have no case for false imprisonment. It's not like TV with the miranda rights being read to you right then and there. Were you charged with anything? If not you were never under arrest just detained. Yeah you were screwed when you got left stranded, but once again legally they don't have to return you. Not on either side here bro, trust me love to camp, drink and have a blast like everyone else. just have to respect the law especially when out of your element (city). Let it go and learn from it.
Old     (jonm)      Join Date: Jan 2002       06-03-2005, 3:56 PM Reply   
Isler, I don't think he was arrested or charged with anything. Just taken down to the station. He was not drunk so they did not charge him. And i have never heard of a police officer giving someone a ride home from jail. You must have been living in a dream world. Invest in a cell phone and call your buddies for a ride next time. Let it die, and remember to never tell a cop to f-off. Those dicks are not worth wasting any more of your time on. They will still be dicks if you complain.
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-03-2005, 5:55 PM Reply   
Arrested, detained, blah blah..There is a legal difference, but it only matters on the side of the police department. The result from the time he was "detained" to the time he was free to go is exactly the same for him.
The fact is, he was not free to go and *he* did nothing wrong.

Mike, did they ever tell you that you were under arrest?
Old     (isler)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-03-2005, 9:07 PM Reply   
Kevin,

Thanks for your input from the point of view of a LEO. Is it legal to detain a person if you have no intention of putting that person under arrest at a later point, or if you're not investigating something you can arrest the person for? You do have to have just cause to detain an individual, or at least it is my understanding.

Mike
Old     (mtv_firemedic)      Join Date: Feb 2004       06-04-2005, 12:58 AM Reply   
My issue with people thinking "campsites are there property" is that they think that because they rented the space they can do and say and listen to whatever they want during the day and throughout the night.. I'm all for having fun, but realize you are in a FAMILY atmosphere and most people dont want their kids (& my 4 year old with his 7,10, 12 yr old cousins) hearing F this and F that and bit#$ this and God Da%$ that. I have had to on more than one occasion NICELY ask some people to tone it down a little while still having fun because they are now intruding on MY RENTAL space(noise language MUSIC 3am blowing up of Air mattresses.) The usual response is F OFF I can do or say what I want- where ever I want! Now all this will get you is a Ranger at your site - I hope to avoid that by a nice friendly conversation- 3 yrs ago at Pedro During 4th of July week, that is exactly what I got. - then louder noise just to be jerks- this is WAY after 11pm- Now I didnt care to go to the ranger that night but planned on it the next day cause at pedro 0 if you get more than a few complaints they will ask you to leave - Well I guess someone who didnt talk to them but was nearby DID go to the ranger and they got a visit after I went to sleep(finally) Of course the next morning they blamed us - I told them it wasnt us- but they deserved it - which almost led to a fight- and eventually led to them being gone by noon- Not because of me - but because of other people not wanting to put up with their sh*& that night and they talked to the ranger -some came up to me and offered thanks for trying to ask them to be quiet because they feared doing it themselves - I deal with Shi%heads all the time so I'm a little uused to it..not to mention 6'4 230 with simiar friends- Had they been nice, respectful, and courteous, stopped cussing every other word and turned down the music a little they could have stayed for the rest of the time - All most people ask is that you keep it down keep it confined to your space- do a walk around - if you can hear the Music/conversation 30 feet around your site - you are too loud - The ranger probably was responding to a complaint. If another neighboring campsite has the courtesy and sometime guts to come up to you and ask nicely to keep it down - KEEP IT DOWN... you are intruding on their space and right to a peaceful night. IF you want to be loud and unruly at Pedro - w/o rangers, there is a ton of lakefront boat in camping where you wont bother anyone but yourself - Now I applaud you for realizing the need to be respectful to "the law" too bad you were already condemned by the Girl - The other problem I see in Don Pedro Camping is the total disrespect for other peoples campsites... Did I INVITE you to walk through my site on the way to the lake?... NO.. use the trail provided - you wouldnt walk through my back yard to get to the street behind me would you-?Just have some respect even if your parents never taught you how- do your best cause it only gets worse with Alcohol- with that said - Have fun and be nice - but be quiet - I'll be camping at DonP in 2 weeks - hopefully I wont have to have a nice "chat" with anyone -

(Message edited by mtv_firemedic on June 04, 2005)
Old    alanp            06-04-2005, 9:48 AM Reply   
kevin he was detained. if it is not free to go(obviously he wasnt) then he was detained. you are correct no rights needed to be read however he was detained. see 14th amendment No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

and 4th amendment the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures.

the question is the legality of the seizure and whether or not he if by his own admittance of drinking 3 beers is enough probable cause to warrant the detention(seizure) for public intoxication and if the campsite is considered public or private. i dont know california law but at the VERY least you should file a compliant. that was very unprofessional and i am a federal leo. and believe you me. you may think that just filing a complaint isnt gonna do anything however its gonna be a pain the arse for all the police/rangers involved. }

(Message edited by alanp on June 04, 2005)
Old     (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-04-2005, 10:18 AM Reply   
Somebody in my group tells a Ranger/cop of any sort,to FO,Right or Wrong,I square them away right now!If your sober,you would know this,unless you thought she was funny.

Ranger comes alone to a campsite,asked you to keep it down(after imposed quite time).Skank mouths off,nobody does anything,cept laugh.WHAT DO YOU THINK HE'S GONNA DO?Take you all on?Hell no,anybody in his right mind is gonna go get help.
Ranger did what he's trained to do,avoid a bad situation.
A guy I no longer ride with did something similar to this.I was sent a written warning in the mail,as they couldn't find me at the lake.It said they could ban me from the lake.

Was 11pm after quiet time?I'll bet it was.You don't own the campsite,you are just leasing it,and you broke the rules.

Odd that I agree with Umali.
Old    clubjoeskier            06-04-2005, 12:47 PM Reply   
Mike(bengal)--You need to swallow this one for the long term benefits...

All the feet stomping is gonna accomplish, is a losing complaint that gets you remembered at the lake, and in the county.

If your story is true and accurate like you said, then you AND your group screwed up in a County that probably still allows the cops to do their job......And if you re-read your posts, you shouldn't be surprised at the view -you- think they have of "bay area folks"....Their job is about order and compliance, and not your personal feelings about how things should have went -AFTER- you got arrested.

I'll also have to respectfully disagree with Alan regarding your arrest. From your posts, looks like you were legally hooked, and then later released without charges. Miranda is case law, not common, and is only required when both detention AND interrogation exists, and I believe only affects admisability in court. You don't get due process because you were probably released without charges, and if not, your due process will be you're court date.

As far as the complaint? It'll stress em' out alright, but it doesn't sound like any more than you trying to get your pound of flesh for them showing you who runs the show up there (not you and your friends).
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-04-2005, 2:14 PM Reply   
Miranda rights (Miranda rule, Miranda warning) n. the requirement set by the U. S. Supreme Court in Miranda v. Alabama (1966) that prior to the time of arrest and any interrogation of a person suspected of a crime, he/she must be told that he/she has: "the right to remain silent, the right to legal counsel, and the right to be told that anything he/she says can be used in court against" him/her. Further, if the accused person confesses to the authorities, the prosecution must prove to the judge that the defendant was informed of them and knowingly waived those rights, before the confession can be introduced in the defendant's criminal trial. The warnings are known as "Miranda Rights" or just "rights." The Miranda rule supposedly prevents self-incrimination in violation of the Fifth Amendment to the U. S. Constitution.
Old     (sam8)      Join Date: Dec 2004       06-04-2005, 2:48 PM Reply   
In regards to the public intoxication issue...

A campground is a public place, if you are not inside a tent, or inside an RV that is clearly configured to be stationary and for habitation", you are in a public place.
I suspect that the officer arrested your for 647(f) of the Penal Code., one of the defining characteristics listed in the penal code for this section is "unable to care for own safety or the safety of others". The deputy then did an 849(b)(2) declaration, meaning that the intent of the officer in taking you into custody was to detain you only until such time as you were "sober" and no longer fit the criteria for 647(f). This is why you have no court date. No charges have been filed.

As Joe Stated, Miranda does not apply here. His statement regarding this is exactly accurate.

If it matters, I've been in the bizz for about 25 years, I'm a Sgt. with rural S/O ...
I am not going to argue the merits or the why and hows of the arrest. There are always options, and you need to ask him or his supervisior why he chose the one he did.
Regarding the B.A....
You did blow an .06 at the jail, and since you blew an .058 ten minutes later, it would be safe to think that you were an .08 or better out in the campground when initially contacted.
If the officer had intended to file the misdemeanor charges of 647(f) P.C. against you, the primary basis for the arrest would be his observations of your level of intoxication, not a B.A. test. B.A. tests are nice to have, buut they are only prima facia evidence in DUI cases, not public intoxication.
If you feel you were mistreated, or arrested without probable cause, or that the officer violated either agency policy or state law by taking you into custody, then you should, by all means, at least talk to his supervisor. I think you would be wasting your time and money by trying to exact much more from this situation.

Based upon what you have stated here, I think the detention, while a strong reaction to the situation, was on it's face, lawful. You do not know what the ranger told the deputies about the situation, he may have said things that were not accurate based upon his anger towards being cussed out.
Clearly the female with the alligator mouth is the individual most responsibile for what happened.. and speaking of that, there is another section , 415.3 P.C. which makes it a misdemeanor to "Use words in a public place likely to provoke an immediate, violent reaction."
The deputy, who is obviously a peace officer, could not arrest the female for that, since it did not occur in his presence.

I am not trying to slam ya here, just give you some facts that might help you understand the hows of what happened. Only the people that were there know the why parts.

Old    ag4ever            06-04-2005, 8:04 PM Reply   
I agree with most in that the reaction was rather extreme for the situation, but not much can be done for it at this point.

As the saying goes hind sight is twenty-twenty.

On the other hand a lot of the "rangers" at the camp ground are rather power hungry.

I recently was camping at an Army Corp of Engineer park, and the "gate attendants" kept going around to all pet owners and telling them they had to be on a leash. Now that is not such a bad thing except when your dog is in the lake swimming. They were telling people the dog still had to be on a leash IN THE LAKE. They also tried to harras me. I had parked in a campsite next to the lake where I had my boat moored all weekend. Our camper was in a different part of the park where the electrical sites were. Since there were no tents or other personal items in the site were I was parked (we had friends that were in the three spot next to this one) some lady who wanted that spot turned me in for being in the wrong campsite. When I spoke to the gate attendent about the situation they were rather rude. I politly told them that since i had paid for that site, I could use it for parking if I wanted too, and they needed to keep other off it. Latter they came by my camper site and appolgised for the misunderstanding. They NEVER messed with us again. Nor the other sites we were with.

I am sure if I had mouthed off at them i would have gotten similar treatment, but I played it smart kept my cool, and politly held my ground.

I wish I could say i would have turned in the chick who popped off, but in all honesty, I would propably have gone to jail to. (Except I usually don't drink when camping, I am just too hot and dehydrated already.)
Old    alanp            06-04-2005, 10:09 PM Reply   
hey joe(clubskier). i probably just didnt articulate myself correctly. i was suggesting as you noted that miranda wasnt needed here due to the fact he was never arrested/charged only detained. had he been charged, any statements he made against himself prior to the arrest would have been inadmissable.
Old     (breadbutta)      Join Date: Dec 2003       06-05-2005, 12:07 PM Reply   
Aren't Drunks wonderful? You could have avoided the situation by calling out the chick ASAP. Before the ranger left you should have gone and talked to him and got the girl identified, right then. Since the campsite was in your name you were the only person they could have gone after. I'm sure it was extremely crowded there so the ranger got what he wanted, I'm guessing you won't go back soon. That totally sucks.
Old     (gehennaengine)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-05-2005, 9:23 PM Reply   
Leave it to a mouthy drunk to ruin everyone's fun. Wait... I'm a mouthy drunk. God, I hate myself.
Old     (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-05-2005, 9:49 PM Reply   
*** for Tat.

I still think its fair play that the ranger harassed someone for the harassment he received.

I would consider yourself lucky that you got it as good as you got it.

My guess is that their was an overwhelming air of defiance/disrespect from the campsite. Actually, "FO" and a lack of response would do it.
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-06-2005, 5:45 PM Reply   
Let me preface this by saying that the following is based completely on Mike's story being 100% accurate.

*** for Tat? So "F-off" deserves to be jailed and released in the middle of nowhere, with no means of return?

I have the utmost respect for law enforcement, but I'm sorry, the circumstance described above, if accurate, do not call for this type of action. Nobody was being protected or served, only harrassed. The big difference here, is that "Tat" came from officers who appear to be misusing their authority. Officers sworn to uphold the law, using their authority to exact some measure of revenge.

Here is what keeps running through my mind: What if I were at that campground with my family. Suppose Mr. Ranger came by my campsite while I was gone. Suppose Mr. Ranger had been having a really bad day, and was just looking to go off. Maybe he is a little unreasonable with my wife or daughter, hears one of them whisper something under her breath and says "Shut up, B----" or worse. Reaction to that from one the girls, "F-off". From there, what happens to Mike, happens to my wife, or daughter. Even though they apologize, one of them gets cuffed, jailed, and released in the middle of nowhere.

Suppose this happens to your wife or daughter. How would you feel? "F-off" is rude & stupid, but not illegal, and does not warrant a reaction like this. Worst case, Mike & his friends campsite should have been revoked & they should have been asked to leave.

Stop making excuses for bad cops.
Old     (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-06-2005, 5:57 PM Reply   
Stop making excuses for bad campers.

IMO.
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-06-2005, 6:24 PM Reply   
"Worst case, Mike & his friends campsite should have been revoked & they should have been asked to leave."

Not making excuses for bad campers.

Old     (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-06-2005, 6:28 PM Reply   
Oops......Agreed......
Old     (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-06-2005, 6:40 PM Reply   
Right. Then as they leave, sherrif's sit and wait to pull em over like sitting ducks and arrest em for DUI. You can't beat a badge, at least not at the time they're messing with you. They are in control. Best thing to do would be nip it in the bud right away. I would'nt of let the Ranger leave without trying to make ammends and kissin his a$$! Like it or not, you're at their mercy.
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-06-2005, 6:54 PM Reply   
Sure, but if Mike is not intoxicated, like he stated, and the cops are there only to cause problems as a retaliation, then it is still harassment. Cops need to focus their resources on real problems, not getting even.



(Message edited by socalwakepunk on June 06, 2005)
Old     (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-06-2005, 7:01 PM Reply   
Good or Bad don't matter. You go up against em ur gonna lose. Ya feel lucky Punk?
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-06-2005, 7:06 PM Reply   
I don't put up with it. You shouldn't either. If more people stand up for themselves, and do not put up with harrasment, problems like this would stop.
Old     (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-06-2005, 7:16 PM Reply   
That's a nice fantasy land you live in Captain. I used to subscribe to that way of thinking too. The ways of the world have taught me different. There is a time to fight and a time to give in.
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-06-2005, 7:27 PM Reply   
Losers give in.

Attorney to a camper in a deposition: "So, do you know why 6 police vehicles showed up at the next campsite"

Camper: "Well, it was past 11, and they may have been a little on the noisy side, 6 police cars may have been a bit much, but someone did say the f word."

*County Representative looking through his pockets for a checkbook*


(Message edited by socalwakepunk on June 06, 2005)
Old    alanp            06-06-2005, 10:09 PM Reply   
if your convictions are that strong then pay for a lawyer for your friend and see if there is anything you can do. at best you have a violation of civil rights violation. at worse youll be out a consultation fee. however it seems like youre trying to garnish support for your cause. get on with it. not trying to be harsh and as a federal leo i think at the least you should file a complaint.
Old     (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-07-2005, 5:43 AM Reply   
This has been going on for years up there. My brother got dropped off at Kennedy Meadows in the middle of the night back in the 70's after partying a bit too hard and then getting "mouthy" with the sheriff at Pinecrest. The locals get away with everything short of murder, tourists don't get much tolerance. Unless things have changed I doubt you'll get anywhere with a lawyer.

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