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Old     (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-27-2009, 12:49 PM Reply   
Tigemike, I still can't understand people using 2 channel amps like that. I've never seen it been done until I came on here. It's just not right.....
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-27-2009, 1:01 PM Reply   
Phil,
Is there any way to get a little more bass out of the speakers. When we surf it's just too much highs and not enough lows or midrange. I am running the kicker amp and have everything set like instructed. I don't need the sound to travel too far. I think I could just turn up the deck eq, but that will change how the interior 6.5's sound. Any ideas?
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-27-2009, 1:09 PM Reply   
I missed something apparently, until just now...

John, For the Kicker amps that have a remote bass control, it IS a remote volume control for the bass / subwoofer amplifier section.

Wade-

You are going to be better using 2 amps as TigeMike says, or use the 550.3 as he also shared. That is a good solution to your situation.

Trying to use a stereo amp with half running the towers and half running the sub is just asking for headaches. It can work, but wow, you will probably spend less money just buying the proper amp from the get go; less stuff to go wrong.

Phil
Kicker
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-27-2009, 1:26 PM Reply   
"Tigemike, I still can't understand people using 2 channel amps like that. I've never seen it been done until I came on here. It's just not right....."

Me neither! but I guess someone does, but not me! There are too many good amps out there at a reasonable price that will be a lot better in terms of performance and ease of setup then trying to run a 2chnl like that. Work smart, not hard!!!
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-27-2009, 1:49 PM Reply   
Duffy-

Bass is always going to be a challenge for a typical tower speaker, horn-loaded or otherwise. The large-driver custom stuff out there can deliver more bass, but you are talking about 6" woofer/midbass drivers for a typical tower speaker. How much bass do you get out of your car's door speaker at a distance?

Surfing sets up a unique challenge, as you do not need the distance, huh?

What is the crossover set at? You might consider moving the crossover frequency down a little bit, but you do it at the sake of power-handling and clarity. That will maybe help.

Another option is a separate EQ for the tower. that way, you are controlling the "shape" of the tower system separately from the in-boat system. I think I know someone who has a dual-zone EQ... Or you could just EQ the tower with a simple 5-band like we have talked about elsewhere. just remember when you say that there is not enough bass, what you are really saying is that there is too much mids and highs. Use the EQ to cut mids and highs, rather than boosting bass, ( a real power-eater)

Then there is that option of simply adding more subwoofer to the in-boat system and let it carry the load.

You have options, but just know there is no way you will ever get a typical tower speaker systems to deliver true subwoofer performance.

Let me know your thoughts!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-27-2009, 2:04 PM Reply   
6.5's may actually sound a little better at 20 feet or less. This may sound dumb but, how would I set the crossover on the 450.2? Is that the crossover frequency setting? What should I put it at? I have two subs, but they don't really reach the surfer. Maybe a external eq would work better.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-27-2009, 2:29 PM Reply   
Duffy-

Yes, you want to adjust the crossover frequency setting, and adjust it a little lower. what is it currently set at? For surfing you might get away with setting it as low as 50 maybe???

I fail to mention one other thing. there is the very remote possibility that for the surfer the tower speakers are acoustically out of phase with the rest of the audio system. If so, there is a very slight possibility that you are accidentally creating a response dip in the lower frequency range of the sound the surfer is hearing due to the surfer being able to hear both the tower speakers AND the in-boat speakers. Try flipping the speaker polarity at the tower speaker terminals, by reversing the wires... Take your positive wire from the amp and connect it to the negative of the speaker and vice-versa. Do this for both tower speakers, but change the wiring only at the speakers, not at the amp. You will not harm anything, and you might not even notice a difference, but it might help, and if it works for you the solution is cheap...

We can go into in-phase vs. out-of phase, and why being electrically in-phase is not guarantee of being acoustically in-phase, but that might be another topic.

Hopefully my explanation of flipping the wires is simple enough to understand.

Try it and let us know

Phil
Kicker
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-27-2009, 2:35 PM Reply   
Thats crazy, and I can definitly hear the in boat speakers. Would this cause it? Will this hurt the how loud they go?
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-27-2009, 2:43 PM Reply   
It certainly could cause it. It will not make a difference on overall volume, it will just suck the life out of the low-end...

If it fixes it, you will want to leave it the way that sounds best to the surfer, probably. As David at Earmark has shared elsewhere, there is no way to re-eq to correct for a frequency response abberation caused by an out-of-phase condition. If it acoustically out-of-phase, no amount of EQ will fix it so it is worth trying the wiring thing for sure...

Phil
Kicker


(Message edited by philwsailz on April 27, 2009)
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-27-2009, 3:37 PM Reply   
Thats crazy, and really easy to try. Thanks!
Old     (flaswaliba)      Join Date: Dec 2008       04-30-2009, 3:08 PM Reply   
Phil,

I have a couple questions. I have a malibu with the standard rockford speakers. I have six total cabin speakers and need to know which kicker amp to run to them and how to run them. Should I run them on two or the channels.

Also I'll be running the KMT6s on my tower with the ZX450.2 amp.

Also, how does the SKM10 run on the ZX400.1 sound in the observer seat storage area. Will it be enough if I port it out of the storage area?

Thanks,
Matt
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-30-2009, 4:36 PM Reply   
Phil,
You rock! My speakers were totally out of phase! It was like they got ten times louder and mid and bass is there too. All by just switching wires. That is such a weird concept.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-30-2009, 5:40 PM Reply   
Matt,

Not trying to answer for Phil, but this is how I would approach your setup. Assuming you already have the zx400, I would suggest running 2 SKM10's off it, each in a different part of the boat. If placed in a storage area, they will be loader and sound better if vented.

For your cabin speakers, the MX350.4 will be a great match to power the 6 RF's - the bows running on chnl 1 and 2, and the 2 port main cabins on 3, and the 2 stbd main cabins on chnl 4.

If you dont have the zx400.1 yet, I would consider the MX700.5 for the 6 cabin RF's and 1 or 2 SKM10's
Old     (flaswaliba)      Join Date: Dec 2008       04-30-2009, 6:01 PM Reply   
Mike/Phil,

Mike, thanks for the prompt response. No worries answer "for phil". I can tell by reading this thread that you know what you're talking about. I'm definitely going with the zx400. I know I am also going with at least 1 SKM10. I have a malibu sunscape (pretty much a VLX). I'm kind of confused as to where I would put a second SKM10; any recommendations? I'd like to have three amps-one running the sub(s), one the interior speakers, and one the tower speakers. I'm very impressed with Kicker's bang for the buck. Any more advice is greatly appreciated.

Also, will 85-90 watts be enough power to the interior speakers to actually hear them while underway?

Thanks!!!
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-30-2009, 6:22 PM Reply   
Thanks!

The MX700.5 is pretty much 2 amps in one chassis - a class AB 4 chnl for the cabin speakers and a class D sub chnl that will deliver 210W's rms to 1 or 2 SKM10. I sell/install more of these then just about any other. It takes up less space then the 350.4 and 400.1 and does the same job. You can also run the 700.5 off one set of RCA's and it includes a bass control knob like the 400.1

Yes on being able to hear them while cruising. If you really want push those RF's, go with the zx650.4, that will have them screaming!
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-01-2009, 6:12 AM Reply   
Duffy-

Glad that worked. I had a feeling it might, but I did not expect you to report back that much. Congrats and enjoy!!!



Matt-

I can post a short reply. TigeMike is spot on. Except, for the SKM10... The ZX400. or the sub section of the 700.5 will deliver 210 watts to each subwoofer if you put two in there.

IT IS FRIDAY!!!

Let us know!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-01-2009, 6:34 AM Reply   
^^^ That's what I said Maybe just not as clear

210W's to 1 @ 4ohm or 210w's ea (420W's @ 2ohm)

Yes it's Friday, woohoo!!! Now I need to go finish this boat out here and get it gone.......no hurry though, rain all weekend.
Old     (flaswaliba)      Join Date: Dec 2008       05-01-2009, 8:35 AM Reply   
So is the 700.5 going to push one or two subs as well as the zx400? Also, if I'm running the 700.5 off of one set of RCAs, will I be able to control the speakers per balance and fade, etc? One last thing, I am putting one SKM10 under the observer's seat in my malibu. Where would you all suggest putting the other?

Thanks,

Matt
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-01-2009, 8:58 AM Reply   
Matt-

The 700.5 will push the two subs exactly the same as the 400.1 The sub section of a 700.5 is a 400.1...

If you want fader control, you want to use two sets of RCA cables. You can use up to three sets, as the amp can be configured with fader and it also has a pair of sub inputs...

Typically we see subs installed under seats to aid in the tactile sensation. IS there room under another seat, or a swim/sun pad?

The application will vary from person to person, and boat to boat...

Phil
Kicker
Old     (flaswaliba)      Join Date: Dec 2008       05-01-2009, 11:03 AM Reply   
Phil,

One last question...er...I think!!! If I go with the 700.5, will I still have enough juice to be able to hear the six cabin speakers? Also, how much power does the 700.5 push to the other speakers (not counting the sub)? I'm debating on the 650.4 and zx400.1 for the sub(s)and interior speakers of just the 700.5.

I hope I haven't hijacked this thread. I've just had a lot of questions and Phil and Mike have been more than helpful.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-01-2009, 11:19 AM Reply   
Matt-

In my opinion, the 700.5 delivers decent power to the in-boat speakers. What speakers do you have or intend to use?

I have real good luck with my 700.5 and it gets plenty loud; I can hear it fine over open exhaust at WOT... The 700.5 will deliver 65 watts x4 into 4-ohms per channel, or 90 watts x4 into 2-ohms per channel. Wire the two pair in the cockpit area to half of the full range section, and wire the bowrider section to the other half. That is how it is usually done..
Phil
Kicker
Old     (flaswaliba)      Join Date: Dec 2008       05-01-2009, 11:31 AM Reply   
Phil,

I have the rockford t162c speakers (six pair) two in the bow and 4 in the cabin. I'm not looking to make anyone's ears bleed in the cabin area, but I would like to hear the sound cleanly and crisply with no distortion. I'm sure I'll also get plenty of volume from the KMT6s on the tower pushed by the zx450.2.
Old     (flaswaliba)      Join Date: Dec 2008       05-01-2009, 11:32 AM Reply   
I meant to say 3 pair and six total. Doh!!!
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-01-2009, 11:37 AM Reply   
The 700.5 will run those fine.

Go for it!

Did someone say it is Friday????


Phil
Kicker
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-01-2009, 11:55 AM Reply   
Matt,

With my 700.5 and 3 pairs of KS6502's, I run the cabin off the H/U's front RCA's and the tower amp off the rear RCA's. At boarding speeds, I will fade down the 700.5 while I have the towers cranking..........No worries on hearing load and clear.

Is it beer:30 yet???
Old     (wadeaminute)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-02-2009, 6:35 PM Reply   
Mike/Phil

Sorry for bothering you again but I just want to make sure I'm getting all the right stuff.
-CRUNCH PZI 550.5 (PZI5505)
3/5-Channel Class A/B 700W POWERZONE Series AMPLIFIER
-KICKER 07KMT6 (KMT6)
6.5" 2-Way 300W MARINE
-Universal Marine Radio Cover
-KICKER VCVR124
12" 800W Loaded Box SUBWOOFER (BEST PLACE TO INSTALL SUB?? V215 SANGER)
-PYLE PLCDUSB78MP3
CD MP3 USB SD MMC Motorized Receiver w/ Remote

This is a new boat and I'm trying to due this on a budget. But I don't want a bunch of junk that won't work together. (my wife will kick me in the junk if I spend a fortune on a system) Please Help ME!

Does any of this sound any good? I want to purchase everything from one place since I'm from Canada it will save me some hassle

Thanks
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-03-2009, 4:47 AM Reply   
Wade,

That Crunch amp will actually work, but maybe not how you were intending to wire it up. That amp will do about 250W's X 2 when wired in bridge mode. That would be some awesome power to the KTM's, but there is one thing to consider, the KTM6's are about a 3ohm impedance which is too low for most amps when wired in bridge mode. If it were me, I'd probably do it, but I have to be prepared to stand behind it if the low impedance cooks the amp.

For you, I would recommend wiring each KTM6's to it's own channel, that will give you 125+ watts to each KTM pod. This way, you are only using 2 chnls of the amp, giving you room to expand or even power 2 pairs of cabin speakers off the other 2 chnls.

For the sub, I would recommend NOT going with a pre-made enclosure. Even the best built box will not last in a boat as they are not sealed or encapsulated. My first recommendation would be to look at were the sub can go. This will dictate if you need a box, and if so, what size can you fit there. This info will then help determine the best sub to go with.

Based on the output of the amp (500W's x 1 @ 2ohm) I would go with an sub that is a 4ohm dual voice coil. With 2 4ohm coils wired in parallel (+ to +, - to -), this would give you a 2ohm load at the amp and it will deliver the 500W's

I would post up on the Sanger forum maybe and see where others are mounting/putting sub. A very popular spot for both manufacturers and installers is the driver's bulk-head wall under the console. If this wall is a solid wall, floor to helm, side to side so the front of the sub is completely isolated from the rear of the sub, then I would suggest going with the Kicker CompVR102. This sub does not require an enclosure to perform great, when powered correctly. If a sub enclosure is needed, or wanted, then this same sub or the CVR122 will still be great choices.
Old     (wadeaminute)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-03-2009, 5:56 AM Reply   
So is this the correct amp? Are the tower speakers under powered?
I'll go with this sub

KICKER 07CVR102 (CVR102)
10" Dual 2-Ohm 600W CompVR Series SUBWOOFER


Is the cd player any good? All I want is something with front USB port.

Thanks
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-03-2009, 6:17 AM Reply   
Although the KTM6's are rated for the 150Ws', even at 125W's, this will not leave them significantly under powered. I fell you will be pleased with them. because they are close to 3Ohm, the amps output will probably be more then the 4ohm spec of 125W's

The CVR102 is a great choice.......doesn't need and enclosure but will sound even better with one, doesn't need gobs of power but will handle it. Post some pics up of where you might want to place the sub so you can get some feedback. May want to start your own thread, that will help as more people will read and respond.
Old     (codykauz)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-12-2009, 1:15 AM Reply   
hey guys and phil,
i am considering buying another set of KMT6's and trying to either fit all 4 enclosures on the tower, but i'm thinking 3 might be more realistic. I have a 4 channel amp, what would be my best option for a wiring configuration and do i need to run a separate set of wires for each enclosure?
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-12-2009, 6:28 AM Reply   
Cody-

The ideal situation will be one set of wires for each speaker, and one amp channel for each speaker.

If you go with just three, you are really best served to leave one channel of the amp unused.

FYI.

Phil
Kicker
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-12-2009, 9:03 AM Reply   
Here are my final KMT6 install pics thanks a lot to Brit Rider, TigeMike and of course Phil.

http://photos.wakeboarder.com/data/3519/Picture_004.jpg
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/data/3519/Picture_0121.jpg
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/data/3519/Picture_0111.jpg
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/data/3519/Picture_0103.jpg

Here is my thread if interested.
http://www.supraboats.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=3630&page=5
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-12-2009, 10:51 AM Reply   
Looks good!!!

Your welcome, thanks.
Old     (drewlak)      Join Date: May 2009       05-18-2009, 7:02 AM Reply   
Alright - THROW YOUR TOMATOES.
I currently have a Clarion CMD4 head unit (pushing 4x17RMS) in my Tige. I just bought the KMT6's and a sub. I'm considing buying the Kicker 700.5 amp, and plan to wire it this way:
-Power the two bow speakers off the head unit (17W RMS) (Not sure if I can bridge to 34W)
-Power the two rear speakers off the 700.5 (75W RMS)
-Power the two KMT6s off the 700.5 (yes, they'll be underpowered)
-Power the KM10 off the 700.5 of course.

I figure in the bow, without bass from the head unit (because I now have the sub) they'll be loud enough.
I live on a popular Northeast lake, so I'm not sure I'll really ever use all of the KMT6s - but even if I go this way - I can always upgrade a tower amp later. Baby steps.

Anything wrong with my thinking?
Wall mount the KM10 instead of the SKM10 box?
How do I turn the tower speakers down during normal cruising (cabin speakers only)?

Thanks,
Newbie
Old     (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       05-18-2009, 9:05 AM Reply   
wow.... I'm amazed.

This thread refuses to die!
A lot of good info on here.

H2O Pro Accessories
Old     (hkyleagg)      Join Date: Mar 2009       05-25-2009, 9:40 AM Reply   
i know this may be a dumb question but what would i need to hook up these kmt6's to my 2002 mastercraft x star?
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-25-2009, 10:34 AM Reply   
hkyleagg,

What tower do you have? Just make sure the clamps will fit the tower dia. As far as needed components: Tower speakers, 50ft of speaker wire (or 25ft of 4 conductor), amp (in the range of 150 watts rms), power and ground cable (size depends on length), circuit protection (fuse or breaker - 60A), RCA signal cable.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-25-2009, 2:20 PM Reply   
I read that some people are putting 3 of these on their tower. How would you wire them? I don't think you could use a 2 channel amp, so you could do a 4 channel amp and just not use a channel? It might sound awesome on my boat but I have 2 and a 450.2 amp.
Old     (flaswaliba)      Join Date: Dec 2008       05-26-2009, 5:24 AM Reply   
Phil/Mike,

I've got a slight problem with my Kicker 700.5 amp. I went ahead and bought this one per your recommendation. It is currently pushing four cabin speaker and the SKM10. We were using it this weekend, and it worked great all day saturday. We loved it, plenty loud and plenty clean. However, on Sunday after about an 45 mins of cruising to our spot and the music being on constantly, it started to cut out and go into protect mode. Now it won't even play for 30 seconds before going in to protect mode. What's going on?
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-26-2009, 12:09 PM Reply   
Matt-

You may have totally sucked the battery dry, (under 10.5 volts and the amp shuts off) or you have managed to rattle a wire around either at the amp or at a speaker that is causing a short circuit. That is my hunch...

Phil
Kicker
Old     (flaswaliba)      Join Date: Dec 2008       05-26-2009, 1:49 PM Reply   
Phil,

Just ruling out the possibilities: I have the 450.2 running my pair of KMT6 on the tower. I don't think it's the battery since they are running just fine. Should I check all of the wires, etc as my next course of action?

Thanks!
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-26-2009, 2:11 PM Reply   
Yeah, check the speaker wires at both ends first. Even just a little whisker of a wire between two terminals can cause it. Check your power wires too, but that should not cause the problem, since your amp is turning on and running. Also, look behind the speakers at their terminals... Sometimes it is easy for something to accidentally lay up against the terminals as a result of gear moving in and out of an underseat storage area. If a piece of metal ends up against a speakers terminal, it could look like a dead short to the amp.

Lastly, can you listen to each speaker to verify it is playing? A blown speaker can short to zero ohms and that can cause the amp to go into protection...

let us know!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (scottnorm)      Join Date: May 2009       05-29-2009, 5:19 PM Reply   
This is a great thread!! I was wondering, has anyone tried to paint or powdercoat the KMT6?
Old     (scottnorm)      Join Date: May 2009       05-30-2009, 3:29 PM Reply   
Ok, I've done the research and am set on getting the KMT6's, but can someone give me some recommendations on what other items (amps) i should get? I have a Regal 2520. It currently has the following:

Kenwood KTS-300MR Head Unit
Kenwood KFC-1652MRW Speakers (six of these)
Kenwood KAC-6202 Amplifier

I would like to install the KMT6's, a new amp and a subwoofer or two.

Any help would really be appreciated.

Thanks!!
Old     (razzman)      Join Date: Dec 2006       05-30-2009, 7:24 PM Reply   
A kicker ZX450.2 would power those perfectly.
Old     (drewlak)      Join Date: May 2009       06-01-2009, 5:30 AM Reply   
Would love to see an asnwer to Scott Norman (on painting the speakers). Also would love to know if Kicker is coming up with a replacement grill for the KMT6s to match the 09 speaker line...
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-01-2009, 6:14 AM Reply   
I see no reason why they couldn't be painted. Could do it with rattle cans or take them to a body shop for a more professional finish. Just need to use a primer and paint that is intended for plastics. A body man will know, its what they would use on bumper covers. If you go with can and DIY, use SEM brand paint.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-01-2009, 9:32 AM Reply   
So one of kmt6's is louder than the other. I tried using a new rca, and the deck fade and balance is flat. I also tried flipping the rca from right to left. I have the kicker 450.2. What else could it be, I was going to try to flip the power to see if it's the amp or the speaker.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-01-2009, 10:17 AM Reply   
Duffy-

When you flipped the RCA's did you flip them at one end or both?
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-01-2009, 10:19 AM Reply   
Just one end:-) And it didn't change anything. I notice it less at loud volume. But still it's there, less mid-bass from the left speaker.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-01-2009, 10:37 AM Reply   
'K....

Yeah, try switching the speaker wires; just at one end... :-) Let me know. There is a chance it is in the speaker.

We'll take care of ya...

Phil
Kicker
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-01-2009, 10:51 AM Reply   
Wouldn't just one woofer go out? I noticed that the speakers actually don't throw as far as my other set. It would be weird to have both internal speakers go bad? Could it be a internal crossover or something?
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-01-2009, 11:11 AM Reply   
Who knows. We would really be speculating. It could be that one of the woofers is not working for some strange reason???

Let me know what you find after switching the speaker wires. If it is in the speaker we will want to probably get them in for warranty repair/replacement.

Let me know! I will make sure you are taken care of...

Phil
Kicker
Old     (shepsigkap)      Join Date: Apr 2009       06-02-2009, 9:29 PM Reply   
Hey just to toss it out there we are looking to add a third KMT6 pod so if anyone wants to go in halves on a set shoot me an email: sarah.shepherd@att.net
Old     (scottnorm)      Join Date: May 2009       06-05-2009, 8:21 AM Reply   
I decided to part with the cash and go with the Pro 60's. Their performance is undeniable and they are just so much more aesthetically appealing than the KMT6. Question: what amp? Considering Kicker MX700, Alpine PDX-5 or Arc Audio KS300.2. Please let me know your thoughts. thanks.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-05-2009, 11:18 AM Reply   
If anyone has a blown or old kmt6 laying around I am looking at doing a fun pod project.
Old     (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       06-11-2009, 8:24 AM Reply   
I have a question (maybe a dumb one). I have the kmt6 speakers and the 450.2 amp. Wired normally and the amp is set up just as phil suggests. There seems to be nothing coming out of the mids only the horns. Is this what they are suppose to do? It sounds good and you can hear them clearly while riding, I just didn't know if that's how they were made or if somethings wrong.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-11-2009, 8:29 AM Reply   
Are you sure it is set up completely right? Check to make sure the crossover is set to somewhere around 70 Hz up to around 100 Hz. If you set it way high, the mids will not play...

I am getting ready to send you a PM; watch for it...

Phil
Kicker
Old     (subrio45)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-15-2009, 9:26 PM Reply   
Phil,

I'm close to purchasing the KMT6's and, based on your advice, also plan on purchasing the ZX450.2 amp. My only reservation is that I've seen no discussion nor any rating designating the ZX450.2 as marine grade. Also, the Kicker website is listing the marine amps with a MX designation.

Considering I know very little about stereo/audio and since you've suggested the ZX450.2 multiple times, I'm assuming it will do the job. Still I'm just looking for that extra little bit of reassurance. Please fill me in.

Best Regards,
Darrin Evans
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-16-2009, 3:44 AM Reply   
FWIW,

I've installed tons of Kicker zx series amps as well as many other brands of non-marine with no issues. The key is location, location, location.

Mount them in a storage area that stays primarily dry. Mount them up off the floor, on a wall or amp rack that has no vents or drains over top of it.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-16-2009, 6:37 AM Reply   
Darrin-

There are two marine amplifiers currently in the Kicker amplifier lineup. These two, the MX700.5 and the MX350.4 hit the most common boat amplifier applications for boat stereo installation. They have several marinizing features that set them apart from the ZX amplifiers.

That being said, the ZX amplifiers are still incredibly robust. We have several OEM boat manufacturers who use amplifiers from the ZX line when they have applications where a different channel count or different power requirements suggest a different model of amplifier.

TigeMike is right. Regardless which amp you use, from Kicker or anybody else, a key factor in the installation is getting the amplifier mounted in the correct location. Mount it securely, away from splashes, and away from other sources of moisture. Up high in one of the storage compartments is ideal. Mount it on stand-offs, both to improve air flow and to get it off of any carpet, which sometimes can wick moisture up to the amp. If you do that, the ZX amps will stand up and run for you quite reliably. The MX just improves upon it and gives you additional protection.

If you are getting the KMT6, go for the ZX450.2 and take the time to mount it properly, with the precautions mentioned above. You should be real happy.



Go for it!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-16-2009, 8:51 AM Reply   
Phil,are you in stillwater?
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-16-2009, 9:00 AM Reply   
yup!
Old     (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-16-2009, 9:25 AM Reply   
Im just getting started on a showboat project and my dealer is kinda hard to get in contact with.
I asked if you guys where working on anything new but they never found anything out.Is it possible to deal with you guys direct?

(Message edited by formfunction on June 16, 2009)
Old     (subrio45)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-16-2009, 9:32 AM Reply   
TigeMike & Phil,

Thank you both for the prompt responses. Your advice will be put to good use.

Based on what you've advised I still have some reservations. This is a 1984 Ski Nautique 2001 with a closed bow. Though water is never sprayed directly into the bow, the bow can nonetheless still hold moisture.

I plan on mounting the amp somewhere in the bow, per your instructions, most likely on the driver side. I don't know if the bow would/could hold enough moisture to be factor. What are your thoughts? Advice?

Darrin Evans
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-16-2009, 9:42 AM Reply   
If we told ya about the new stuff, I would then have to fine me a good hitman... :-) Sorry, very few folks are allowed into "The Lab"

Your dealer provides a level of support that is hard to duplicate most of the time. He is the guy that can actually walk out to your boat and diagnose a problem, or do that little adjustment tweak. We like having that guy available to you; there are times when it makes a world of difference.

I try to be a good resource for everybody here on the boards, but I cannot answer every little thing every time; sometimes it really takes being on the boat. Sometimes I have to be away for business, and it might be a few days before I can reply to a question here.

Keep your local dealer in the loop and let him take care of ya. Cool?

Phil
Kicker
Old     (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-16-2009, 9:54 AM Reply   
Not cool when I am trying to spend a ton of money to basically advertise for kicker and I can't get a decent deal.I tried to stay with you guys because thats what the boat came with stock and a few of your employees have purchased stuff from my shop which means a lot to me.However the local dealer knows nothing of the marine product and seems disinterested in working with me.Besides I want the newest coolest stuff for my project.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-16-2009, 10:14 AM Reply   
Are you here in Stillwater?

PM me; I have marine dealers who would love to help ya!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (extremeisaac)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-16-2009, 11:00 AM Reply   
I just ordered a set of KMT6s for my tower.. I heard a set on a sanger this weekend at Union Point and was really impressed how loud they were from the distance the boat was.. Cant wait to get them on the Sanger
Old     (subrio45)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-16-2009, 12:06 PM Reply   
Can anyone tell me the difference between these two Kicker ZX450.2 amps:

06zx4502
08zx4502

My guess is it has something to do with the year they were made. If that's the case I wonder if there's any significant advantages to the newer one. Any help is appreciated.

Darrin Evans
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-16-2009, 12:23 PM Reply   
Darrin-

Welcome to the longest currently active thread...


The first two digits define the model year of the amplifiers. the 06 line was produced in 2006 and 2007. The 08 line is current.

The differences are mostly related to inputs, and turn-on options. The 08 can use a 12-volt turn-on lead, or it can be set up to signal-detect, or to use DC offset as a trigger to turn the amplifier on. Additionally, the hi-level inputs are changed up and now part of the RCA input; you should use a ZISL adaptor if you are running speaker level inputs from your radio.


The other differences are largely cosmetic. the 08 has a differend end-panel design that allows for the optional ZX endcap to be used to cover up wiring and end-panel controls. The 06 model did not have the endcap option.

None of the turn-on or input differences should matter in a marine install, as you will likely have a head unit with RCA outputs and a 12-volt amp turn-on lead.

The power output is the same.

Hope that helps ya!

Phil
Kicker

(Message edited by philwsailz on June 16, 2009)
Old     (subrio45)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-16-2009, 4:04 PM Reply   
Thanks Phil.

One more thing, you didn't respond to the question about moisture in a closed-bow boat(a few posts above). Do you think this would be an issue if the amp was mounted the way you instructed?

Darrin
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-17-2009, 6:01 AM Reply   
Sorry Darrin!

I think up in under the bow will be good. See about mounting it to a side wall, rather than on the floor. Humidity usually should not cause you problems, what you want to avoid is direct spray, or drip, or sitting in a pool of water or on soggy wet carpet.

When mounting it on the side, be careful not to put screws thru the side of the boat... :-) There are lots of different ways to tab / glue blocks on if you do not have a bulkhead already. regardless, consider following TigeMike's recommendations regarding standoff spacers; it keeps the amp even drier, and aids with getting cooling air all around the amp.

Good luck and let us know!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (extremeisaac)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-21-2009, 10:01 PM Reply   
Got my speakers on this weekend and love it! you can totally hear the music perfect from 65-70 feet where we ride behind my sanger. I will say its not your face loud NVS/Wetsounds loud but its good enough..All my riders this weekend said it was so nice to be able to ride to music!

Only problem I had.. and Phil, maybe you can chime in.. I looked at the tower halfway through the day and saw that one of the speakers looked like it was puffing outward vs being concaved in.. any idea?
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-22-2009, 6:34 AM Reply   
Isaac-

I have sent you a note to your e-mail.


Guys-

Apparently there has been a small batch of KMT6 built that were so air and water-tight that when the air inside heats up, the air can do nothing but push the midrange cones out.

We have experience with this phenomenon, and try to design for it when we are working with sealed enclosures. Any time you have a totally sealed speaker, and install it in a totally sealed enclosure, you run the chance that you can develop positive or negative pressures inside as a result of temperature changes. This phenomenon is more prevalent with injection-molded or other synthetic enclosures.

There is apparently a small batch of KMT6 speakers out there that will exhibit the symptoms that Isaac has experienced. They are simply too well sealed... :-)

I will post up a further explanation, and provide simple remedy details in a separate post, in order to make it easier than going to the very bottom of this thread!

Phil
Kicker

(Message edited by philwsailz on June 22, 2009)
Old     (extremeisaac)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-22-2009, 8:06 AM Reply   
Got your email Phil.. Thanks for the great explanantion.. but more so the such quick turnaround in response...

I just want to say how pleased I am with the whole kicker system recently installed in the boat.. We went out yesterday for the day with 7 of our friends and everyone complimented how good the stereo sounded and how much better of an experience everyone had on the boat.. The KMT6s were rockin behind the boat and my VCVR12 was pounding all day! I really was never a big kicker fan, but I said F it and gave it a shot and could not be any happier with the setup...
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-22-2009, 8:37 AM Reply   
Thank YOU Isaac!

Guys and Gals-

I will post later today in a new thread describing a little tweak to the KMT6 if you are experiencing something similar to what Isaac described.

Stay tuned! :-)

Phil
Kicker
Old     (subrio45)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-22-2009, 8:11 PM Reply   
Phil,

I received the KMT6's and can't wait to get them on the boat, especially with all the good testimonials I'm hearing on them. Based on the correspondence between you & Gerald B., I decided to go with the Pioneer KAC-7204 amp.

Per your instructions I'll be setting the Bass Boost to zero but I don't know what the other settings need to be.

Where should I set the 1.)input sensitivity 2.)LPF Frequency 3.)HPF Frequency & 4.)Filter? I've attached a picture of the back of the amp for your convenience.

Upload
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-23-2009, 5:55 AM Reply   
Darrin-

Welcome to the still-growing, highest-post-count thread topic active on WakeWorld today...

Set the crossover slide switch to HPF. Se the HPF FREQUENCY KNOB to 70 or higher, but probably not to exceed 150 or so. It is an ear thing, you need to listen to determine the best setting. Too low, and you you lose power handling, too high, and the speakers start to sound "thin" and lose mid-bass. Don't worry about the LPF FREQUENCY in this application.

As for input sensitivity, I do not want to write a book, (again). :-) Don't take that as being harsh, but Both Tim White from Wetsounds and I have covered input gain setting in other posts. There is no need to write it again, unless you cannot find it. Go do a thread search on "gain setting" and see what Tim and I have both written. With that instruction and advice you will be armed with the information and step-by-step procedure for setting your gains! Gain setting is basically same for any amplifier, regardless of brand, so you know... :-)

Let us know!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (subrio45)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-23-2009, 7:06 AM Reply   
Phil,

You're the man! I wasn't aware you guys had covered this in other posts. Sadly I didn't even know input sensitivity=gain. That shows where I am with this stuff. Anyway, no harshness taken. I have no problem searching for the posts you and Tim White have posted on gain. Thanks again for the help.

Darrin Evans

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