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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through September 04, 2009

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Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-11-2009, 9:34 AM Reply   
Hey Duffy-

Using the CVT65 is an interesting concept. Any time you increase cone area you are usually going to increase your sound output.

The CVT65 will work in as little as .2 cu. ft. sealed, so from an enclosure volume standpoint, the speaker would work in a tower can. They also have some real good power handling, (150 watts RMS) so you could pour some coals to them.

I think if there were any potential problems for doing something like this it would be efficiency/sensitivity. The CVT65 is a true subwoofer. It is not a midrange. Subwoofers are relatively inefficient in terms of their sensitivity, (usually expressed as "x-number-of" dB, at 1 watt, at a distance of 1 meter) due to the very long wavelengths of the low frequency sounds they are required to recreate. This inefficiency is the reason why subwoofers are always significantly larger than our midrange and tweeter drivers. Bigger woofers are more efficient because they have large cone areas... They move more air and make more pressure due to their size, (for a given linear excursion).

The CVT65 has a sensitivity of 84.6 dB, 1W/1M and the KMT6 has a sensitivity of 93 dB, 1W/1M. the KMT6 is 10 dB louder for the same power input. 10 dB is a lot!!!!! Let's not go into logarithmic math on this one, it is confusing, and some can argue any way they choose to, but with a 10dB difference, the KMT6 is at least twice as loud as the CVT65... AND, you would want to power up the CVT65's with an ADDITIONAL ZX450.2 amplifier, (or equivalent) to get them going... That is a lot of coin to throw at the project.

My opinion here is that while the idea sounds fun, I wonder or even doubt if you would be able to even hear the CVT65's up close over the KMT6's, much less at a distance. So, after all that, a simple answer: I think it is doubtful that you would be able to hear anything but a very slight difference, and in my opinion, the difference is not worth the dollar spent in this instance. For the dollar, you would be way ahead to buy another pair of KMT6's and another ZX450.2 amp and stack them over/under... I wonder what that would look like?

Phil
Kicker

(Message edited by philwsailz on March 11, 2009)
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-11-2009, 1:56 PM Reply   
Okay new questions today PLEASE!

KMT6 Tower speakers have rms 150 peak 300. The ProfileHA1040 amp I am looking at today has rms 125 peak 250 per channel x4. That should be plenty of powerI would think. Two channels on tower, two on a sub. Interiors on a cd deck.

Amp: http://www.millionbuy.com/prfap1040.html

What does it mean if I am running a single 12" sub is 4-ohms? The amp is going to be running all four channels at 2-ohms, but only two channels will be going to the sub. Is this ok???? Does this require any special wiring or configuration?

(Message edited by wakemikey on March 11, 2009)
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-12-2009, 6:23 AM Reply   
Howdy from Snowy Oklahoma!

WakeMikey-

Based on the information you share, half of the amp will be connected to the Kicker KMT6 tower speakers. Each speaker will connect to an amp channel all normal-like... The amp will see between 3 and 4 ohms so that is a comfortable load on that half of the amp.

I looked up the amp and it is bridging capable, so the half you want to run to the sub will run a single-4-ohm-voice coil woofer. It is a little tough to tell, does your woofer just have a single voice coil? If so, wire it to the amp in a bridged configuration like the instructions for the amp say.

If you have dual voice coils in the woofer, we need to know what the individual coils' impedance is to recommend the best wiring. Kicker has both single and dual voice coil woofers, and for the dual voice coil woofers, we offer some choices when it comes to voice coil impedance.

Let us know on the woofer!



Phil
Kicker
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-12-2009, 2:47 PM Reply   
Yes is it a single coil is is a cheapie but the price can't be beat. If it's not the best, we'll try again.

POWERBASS PS-12 (PS12)
12" Single 4-Ohm PS Series SUBWOOFER
Power Handling (RMS) : 250 Watts
Power Handling (MAX) : 500 Watts,
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-12-2009, 2:54 PM Reply   
Okay, good enough!

Wire that sub in bridge mode to the two channels left over. That will work fine.

Make sure to engage your crossovers if you have them, hi-pass on the towers, and low pass on the woofer!

Let us know!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-12-2009, 3:05 PM Reply   
Thanks a ton all the gear is on it's way!
Old     (saceone)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-12-2009, 3:36 PM Reply   
I don't even have tower speakers on my 210 but we need more guys like Phil on Wakeworld. I don't think I understood half the things you wrote but it's nice to see someone standing behind their product.

:beer:
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-12-2009, 7:46 PM Reply   
OK I need a bit of help again. Millionbuy told me the amp was available over the phone, but now they say it's on backorder. Sigh. I can wait a couple weeks, or else I could get this:

Profile AP1200
1200W 2 CH Amplifier (2 ohm Max Rating)
Peak Output Power (2 Ohms): 600W x 2
RMS Output Power (2 Ohms): 300W x 2

Would this two-channel amp work just as well? Both tower speaker pods plugged into one channel, and the sub into another?? This one is actually a bit more powerful.

Please let me know as I would like to make this change ASAP if this amp will work. I think it will, just seeking confirmation. It is a bit more expensive though at Sale price: $109.95.

(Message edited by WakeMikey on March 12, 2009)
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-14-2009, 6:18 AM Reply   
WakeMikey-

Sorry, traveling yesterday, Friday.

See my response in your other post. Hopefully you got the 5-channel amp coming.

The two-channel amp you were being offered in substitution would not do what you want in my opinion, and the impedance of two KMT6's wired in parallel to a single amp channel would probably be too low.

Let us know how the 5-ch works!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (hayes)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-14-2009, 10:16 AM Reply   
I got them on my boat and love them. You can't go wrong with these for the price.



Upload
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-14-2009, 10:39 AM Reply   
I did get the five channel and it's on its way!
Amp, KMT6, 1 12" sub, equalizer, tower wiring kit. Just need a good amp kit. How much should I spend for a decent kit? I am tempted to get a cheaper one.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-14-2009, 10:53 AM Reply   
Dont bother with an amp install kit, buy your power and ground cable in bulk (length from amp to battery), a marine rated manual-reset circuit breaker, and a set (2 may be needed for fading) of RCA's

Looking at the online Manual, it says 4ga power/ground and a 70A fuse, but go with a breaker IMO.

(Message edited by chpthril on March 14, 2009)
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-14-2009, 1:24 PM Reply   
Thanks TigeMike I guess to get the right length ground I will have to do that. Where can I find those things? RadioShack?

I have not seen a breaker for an amp before what would it do differently? My car stereo never blew the inline fuse...

I am also on a budget so need to save wherever possible. Thank you all!! So super excited for this spring! It is 50f in Minneapolis today!
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-14-2009, 2:54 PM Reply   
www.knukonceptz.com has the KLMX series 4ga wire for $.089 p/ft. all you need are some 4ga eyelets for the battery (and breaker if you go that route)

www.electricvehiclesusa.com has a 70A breaker (#CB-31200) for $27.50

A fuse will do the same thing, I just prefer the marine rated manual-reset breakers for my boat installs.

It's in the low 40's and rain today in NC!
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-15-2009, 2:55 PM Reply   
TigeMike -

I really appreciate your input and that of others as well! I know everyone has a different standard and sometimes it takes multiple options to find a personal favorite.

When I look at your link for 4g wire, it says power/ground. I have posted a picture of my cabin along with really bad edit of where the batteries are and where the amp will go. It can't be more than four or five feet. Even allowing for extra it couldn't need more than eight feet.

The kits I see come with 17-20' of power wire and only 3' of ground. Why can't I just cut it in half and use it for both? I'm sure it would be long enough.

I see some bad reviews out there for cheap 4 gauge kits because the included wire isn't really 4-gauge, it's more like 8 gauge. When you look at the cheaper ($30) kits for 2-gauge they say it's more like 4-gauge. Perfect, right? It even has a stated 100amp fuse but people say it the thickness of the metal looks more like an 80amp. Perfect again. It also has a 17' rca cable.

Here's the link of what I'm looking at. It has some interesting reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Acoustik-KIT-2G-2-Gauge-Amplifier/dp/B000165DRS/ref=pd_cp_e_1?pf_rd_p=413863501&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001F61R9Q&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIK X0DER&pf_rd_r=0P4E9D8C5CAYJRT3FWPE

I know some people would want a perfect kit, but There's just no way I can spend a ton on wiring. I do not want something crappy, but I want something somewhat simple and cheaper.

Thanks again, Mike
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-15-2009, 4:09 PM Reply   
power and ground would go from battery down and under floor, then back up near drivers wiring harness and amp mounted on wall partially inside gunwale.

Upload
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-23-2009, 9:50 AM Reply   
Phil,
I bought the KICKER ZX450.2 for the KMT6's. Can I use the remote gain knob or bass knob to control the level of the tower speakers? Or does that only control bass?
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-23-2009, 9:59 AM Reply   
Duffy-

It only controls bass. Sorry! With the amp set up correctly, (hi-pass crossover engaged, crossover frequency 50 or higher, bass boost totally off) the remote bass knob is not going to do anything for you.

I know several folks make passive and/or active level controllers; if you want to control the tower speakers in that manner, check out an in-line volume control from one of the vendors that make them. That control is nice to have sometimes!

Good luck!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-23-2009, 10:20 AM Reply   
I have them currently hooked up to a ghetto clarion amp that is giving them 75rms and they still sound amazing! I used to have 4- polk 6x9's with a nice amp and they drown them, even with my current crappy amp. I am excited to hear them with the new amp!
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-23-2009, 10:47 AM Reply   
Phil,
Where should I have the gain? I believe my deck is 2v out.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-23-2009, 10:57 AM Reply   
My personal procedure for setting up system gains in stereo systems:

Turn gains way down but not totally off at the amp(s).

Now turn radio up with your loudest source selection, (radio, MP3, CD etc) until you can audibly hear the sound beginning to distort, get crunchy, etc... Then turn the radio down just barely below that.


Do the same thing with your amplifier(s). Turn the gains up till crunchy then back off...
What we are doing here is using our ear to gain-stage the system... The method I describe makes every component clip at the same time. Each and every device is more-or-less exactly calibrated where they track uniformly from zero-output to max output. This will deliver the best signal and will minimize operating noise, clicks, pops, etc...

Now, when gain setting, we typically want to have the head unit at only about 3/4 volume because IT usually distorts beyond that level. We are only talking about head unit distortion right now... This distortion has nothing to do with amp gains; it is the output devices in the head unit that run out of steam.

The reason we tweek the head unit to distortion and then turn it down a little is to know roughly where the head unit distortion happens... that way we can set the amp(s) where they go into distortion at about the same time. This makes the total system perform best; you have full range of volume control, and when the system is between songs, or turned down, the hissing, pops, buzzes, etc are minimized...

Phil
Kicker
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-23-2009, 10:59 AM Reply   
Understand you need to be careful with your audio program material when setting things up. If you have a quiet song you are using, you might not ever hear distortion due to clipping. Additionally, if you have a song in your library that seems loud, but is recorded quietly, it might never cause clipping distortion either.

I guess that this is a good place to point out that often, ripped digital media files have an unknown pedigree. If you got a tune from a buddy, you do not know what the peak amplitude is, you do not usually know where he got it, what the bit rate was it was encoded in, you do not know other things; these issues can lead you down a poor path of decisions if you are using a dubious copy of a music file to set up your system. For best results, I either use a CD *gasp* or a digital file that I personally ripped from a CD. That way I know that the music density and the peak amplitude are at their highest, giving me the best indicator of where clipping distortion really begins for really loud songs. The other benefit of using a CD is that it goes right into the head unit. This REMOVES any issue or problems that may exist between your digital media player and the head unit if you are using an outboard digital media player. Many times there are two extremes; First is where the interface between the digital player is quite low; the head unit will never distort due to clipping; it is just not getting enough juice from the media player. In the second instance, the digital media player is delivering a hotter signal than the head unit can handle. This will clip and distort the "front-end" of the head unit. In this instance, the head unit will be distorted at all volume settings...

Some of you will have varying tastes no doubt, and some of you might cringe at this recommendation, but remember it is only for set-up if you do not like the music. Nickleback has some of the best-compressed peak amplitude music files out there. Consider using a few of their tracks to dial in the system; pick the really rocking loud ones.

Phil
Kicker

(Message edited by philwsailz on March 23, 2009)
Old     (ncsumalibu)      Join Date: Mar 2009       03-26-2009, 2:00 PM Reply   
This is my first post so first off hi everybody!

Phil,

I am on a tight budget and wanted to know if you could reccomend an amp to push these speakers for around $100? Ideally I would like the zx450.2 but I don't think i can swing the extra $100 right now. Thanks.
Old     (ncboarderboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-26-2009, 3:00 PM Reply   
go with the kenwood kac-7204 or exelon x20. on ebay for $100. you wont be disapointed. I can clearly hear my music while 75' back.

(170x2 at 4ohm)
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-26-2009, 3:24 PM Reply   
Who has ran the KMT6 at 2 ohm with good results???
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-26-2009, 3:37 PM Reply   
^ I have the kicker outlaws ... same as the KMT6 but the old model, at 2 ohms... SUPER loud

crystal clear at 80 ft. (we do have 4 speakers, 2 sets)
Old     (wakemania)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-26-2009, 8:22 PM Reply   
Gerald, did you go with the Kenwood? If so, where did you wind up setting your hi-pass crossover and how do you like it? I'm trying to decide on the Kenwood or the ZX450 myself.
Old     (ncsumalibu)      Join Date: Mar 2009       03-27-2009, 5:20 AM Reply   
I like the price of the Kenwood and it would match the blue LED's that I have also. Do I have to worry about overpowering the kmt6's though? I read a few reviews saying it ran hot and the fan was loud, did you notice either of these Gerald?
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-27-2009, 6:32 AM Reply   
Hey Dustin-

Sorry for not posting sooner! $100.00 is a challenge if you are considering buying new, but there are deals to be had out there for sure. Be patient, and something will show up for ya. A few pointers:
1. Buy a 2-channel amp. Bridging a 4-channel is not a proper solution for the KMT6's due to their impedance, (3-ohms).
2. Make sure that the amp you select has a hi-pass crossover. You can run the KMT6's full range but for a tower application, you are best served to limit the low frequencies.
3. Try to buy as much power as you can. 150 watts RMS is what the speakers are rated for.
4. There are lots of good amps out there, and there are lots that aren't so good. You get what you pay for, so that flea-market special that is advertised at $39.00, (you know the one in the crappy cardboard box that has the math equation 500w+500w=1000w that has nothing to do with the amp's power) is going to give you about $39.00 worth of low power noise, distortion, and headaches.

I have been around this board enough to know that the folks here have lots of opinions, but they tend to NOT recommend junk. Do some research based on recommendations here, and see what you can put together. Then share with us what you did and how it works!

It is Friday, getting ready to DUMP a bunch of snow on us 'round here, so it will be a nasty weekend....

Everybody have a great day and be safe!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (ncsumalibu)      Join Date: Mar 2009       03-27-2009, 6:47 AM Reply   
Thanks Phil! One other question, can I turn the gain down on the Kenwood KAC-7204 so that it supplies 150W RMS? A buddy of mine actually has this amp still in the box and hasn't used it and will sell it to me at a deal. I just don't want to overpower the KMT6's and blow them.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-27-2009, 6:59 AM Reply   
That is possible. Is it the Kenwood? The KAC-7204 is only 170 watts RMS into 4-ohms, it is not way-overpowered... Only slightly.

If you set it up conservatively, it will run the KMT6 speakers just fine.

Phil
Kicker

(Message edited by philwsailz on March 27, 2009)
Old     (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       03-27-2009, 7:33 AM Reply   
Those kickers look like a good choice for the money. Hasanyonecompared them to the electro-voice evid 6.2? They look simalar. And if in the same ball park a steal.
Old     (ncboarderboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-27-2009, 3:21 PM Reply   
wakemania:
I did go with the kenwood. I have the crossover set at a little over 100kh, if you want to play your music really loud though you may want to set it a little higher like 125kh. sounds great to me.

Dustin:
I didnt ever notice it running warm. The fan isnt that noisy. i cant hear it at all when the compartment that it in is closed so
Old     (wakeitnofakeit)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-27-2009, 3:29 PM Reply   
Ok but in which system does Barry Manilow sound the best. He is music and he did write the songs.
Old     (ncsumalibu)      Join Date: Mar 2009       03-30-2009, 8:29 AM Reply   
Okay, I ordered the KMT6's and the Kenwood 7204 Amp. What size speaker wire should I run to get the best results? It's about a 12' run.
Old     (tylersadams)      Join Date: Apr 2009       04-01-2009, 2:21 PM Reply   
Im getting the new 2009 Malibu wakesetter 23 LSV in a couple weeks. I want the loudest possible speakers out there, and I dont really have a budget. Any suggestions? I was looking at the wetsounds or the NVS speakers, any tips?
Old     (w00taz)      Join Date: Jun 2007       04-01-2009, 3:26 PM Reply   
Your new nickname philwsailz is Dr. Phil. Great info in this thread thanks for all your valuable input! Tha math on how to tune gains on the amp w/ an a/c RMS setting was exactly what I have been looking for all my life.
Old     (lgrider57)      Join Date: Dec 2008       04-01-2009, 4:58 PM Reply   
i know this is kinda a dumb question but are the kicker speakers completely water proof
Old     (maxx_wake)      Join Date: Sep 2003       04-01-2009, 6:53 PM Reply   
So does anybody have the KMT6's wired in series? The manual that came with them suggested doing this and there was a thread on here a while back that suggested doing it as well. So when I installed mine I ran a single wire up the tower and connected them in series to a bridged 2 channel amp. The amp is an old Rockford Fosgate Punch 300S that claims 150W x 2 at 2 ohms and 75W x 2 at 4 ohms. They definitely work like this I am just wondering if I should switch my set up to a channel for each speaker.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-02-2009, 6:07 AM Reply   
AJ-

The KMT6 tower speakers will stand up to being left outside, in the rain, no problem. They will not survive prolonged dunking, (if yours are under water, you have other things to worry about! ).

It is fairly easy to make the midrange drivers water-tight, but the horn is a different matter, probably for any speaker. Splashes should be okay, but you do not want to spray a stream from a wash-down hose into them; you can damage the driver.

Phil
Kicker

(Message edited by philwsailz on April 02, 2009)
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-02-2009, 6:29 AM Reply   
Hey Chris-


In your setup, you are not getting any more or less power to the speakers with them wired in series. Let me explain:

When you bridge an amp, each half of the amp "sees" half the load, (impedance).
When you wire a pair of speakers in series, the total load, (impedance) doubles.

In your instance, you are taking two 3-ohm speakers and wiring them in series to a 6-ohm load, and then connecting them to a bridged amp. Since each half of the amp "sees" half the load in bridge mode, each channel is operating into 3-ohms; exactly the same as if you wired one speaker per amp channel.

If you were running more than one pair, series wiring would make sense, as you do not want to run a parallel load, (1.5-ohms) to most amplifiers. In your instance with a single pair, you are totally safe simply wiring one speaker to each amp channel.


If you want stereo sound, you want to wire a speaker to each channel, otherwise they way you are wired right now creates a monaural signal. It is probably up to you if you want to change up the wiring to remove the series configuration,but I personally would re-wire it so that there was one speaker on each channel.

Let us know what you decide!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (stillentt)      Join Date: May 2007       04-02-2009, 7:08 AM Reply   
PHIL = Just wanted to say thx for all the detailed responses. I've had these speakers since last summer (bought from Ada, OK) and have all the info I need to get a new amp this summer!

PS. A buddy of mine installed the inifinit 600M tower speakers last year (about the same pricing, setup) and the Kickers definitely have a much thicker sound.
Old     (maxx_wake)      Join Date: Sep 2003       04-02-2009, 10:25 AM Reply   
Thanks for the info Phil. I think I will go ahead pull another wire through the tower and get them hooked up one per channel.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-03-2009, 10:36 AM Reply   
So does anyone know what the proper angle for these speakers? Basically the boat isn't laying flat while wakeboarding or wakesurfing, so it you mount the speakers flat the sound would be great for surfing, but bad for wakeboarding. Does anyone have an angle they use? I 60% wakesurf and 40% wakeboard. I guess we could go out and losen the bolts and try different angles?
Old     (shepsigkap)      Join Date: Apr 2009       04-07-2009, 9:31 PM Reply   
Hello Phil,

I am new to this board and do not speak/understand all of the mathematical equations and such that you have very kindly detailed for everyone (sorry). I have a few questions and I'm going to do my best to give you as much info as I can on the equipment in our boat. We bought our boat used so the sub, in boat speakers, and amps were already in the boat so they are not new. In the boat we have 4 6.5" component speakers that I believe are Alpine Type S and an JL Audio Sub (12" I believe but wouldn't swear to it). On the tower we are going to be installing a set of KMT6s, we have 2 speaker wires run through the tower (one for each KMT pod). The following is basically all the numbers and info I was able to pull of the twoamps: 1) JL Audio 300/4 and that's all I know for that one 2) Alpine B12 4/3/2ch power amp MRV-F540.

The head unit was installed last summer and is a Sony CDX-M30 with iPod direct connect. We also run 2 Sony wired remotes - one transom and one driver seat.

I am not opposed to replacing one of the amps if need be but would prefer not to replace both of them and not to spend too much $$$. I also want to insure that I have enough power for the speakers and sub in the boat. Unfortunately I don't know the exact specs for the in boat speakers and I know that can be an issue. The in boat speakers and sub are NOT marine speakers - they are regular car speakers, I do know that much.

Any and all information/assistance you can provide will be GREATLY appreciated!!! I don't need all of the math to support your recommendation(s) - it is VERY apparent that you know what you are taking about!

Thank you in advance!
Sarah
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-07-2009, 9:53 PM Reply   
Sarah-
check e-mail... You should have response from Monday. If not e-mail me back... I got ya covered... :-)

Phil
Kicker
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-08-2009, 3:48 PM Reply   
I bought a tower wiring kit from ebay Bullet Lines. It has four wires inside the wire jacket.

I need to run two KMT6 pods and a tower navigation light. I thought this kit would have enough wiring to power speakers, lightbars, etc.

With only four wires, I can only run two pods (unless I combine them mono). Help? Any tips or do I have to run an extra set of wires??? Thanks again guys gettin close to installation now!!!
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-08-2009, 5:43 PM Reply   
Mikey,

You will need to run another pair of wires for the light. Get some 18ga wire for the light, and run it down the other side of the tower, opposite the speakers $.02
Old     (neobillet)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-08-2009, 9:21 PM Reply   
You might want to run at least a 14 guage wire for the lights and run a relay to carry the current if not you will probably have melting issues if the lights are 55 watts or better and no more than 3 lights per 2 wires.
Old     (newty)      Join Date: May 2005       04-08-2009, 10:32 PM Reply   
Phil,
Your patients with every ones questions here will really pay off. Great to see you (Kicker) stepping up and taking care of not only customers but potential customers.
Nice work!
Does Kicker have anything in the works like proaudio, or higher end tower speaker enclosures that would compete with Wetsounds/Bullet/Dbot5?
I'm suprised the Kicker KS series specifally the KS600's don't get more hype. I have 6 of these for cabin speakers and they soun great. I've gotten many compliments from people who are around boats and audio all the time, on the quality of sound they produce. Polks seem to grab the spotlight all the time on these boards.

(Message edited by newty on April 08, 2009)
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-09-2009, 4:41 AM Reply   
Jamie & Mike,

Take note of what the OP is asking. The poster states it's a Nav light on the tower, I doubt it's a 55W bulb and would not melt anything, even 18ga wire. It's probably a .5A bulb.

Newty, Have you had a chance to listen to the new KM series Kicker Marine? I'll put them up against anything out there.
Old     (newty)      Join Date: May 2005       04-09-2009, 5:25 AM Reply   
Tige Mike I have not. I was looking at them on the website earlier. They look good.
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-09-2009, 5:45 AM Reply   
Thanks guys yes it is only a small tower nav light incandescent, not halogen lights.

Jamie you say run through the other side of the tower, I assume this is to prevent noise/crosstalk. The speaker wire is shielded and the bulb is very low power. Would you still recommend opposite side for the light? I would prefer same side if possible.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-09-2009, 8:12 AM Reply   
Newty-

Thanks man I appreciate the kind words!

A note on the KS speakers. The Kicker KS stuff is real nice, it is affordable by many standards, and the performance is better than it has ever been. We have some guys in engineering doing some phenomenal work! As you know, the sound they can produce is really nice. The KS speakers are designed from day one as car speakers. Lots of boaters use them with super results! You just have to take a little more precautions with regards to moisture, and for the coastal boater, salt. That is why there is a marine line at KICKER.

The KM speakers were penned from the ground up as true marine speakers. Their performance still shocks me sometimes; they are just darned good sounding speakers! And, they truly are built to withstand even the toughest offshore environment. They are totally sealed form the front, and I often hose mine down; they are designed to take it.

The difference at least between KS and KM is part of the reason you don't hear me talking much about KS. The KM is just a better speaker for the application..

FYI!

Phil
Kicker

(Message edited by philwsailz on April 09, 2009)
Old     (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-09-2009, 9:49 AM Reply   
I'll second that from Phil...

We have been using Kicker for the past 2 years. Last year was a good year for us... we purchased alot from Kicker...

I'm sure you got a nice bonus huh phil? Just kidding.

The sound is amazing. It's deff one of the best marine speakers on the market.

Sean
Old     (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-09-2009, 9:52 AM Reply   
I guess I didnt say what product we use....

Kicker KM Marine Series...

Sean
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-13-2009, 4:20 PM Reply   
Phil,
What the best kicker amp and the best setup for 2 sets or 4- 6.5" kicker KM620s? Thanks

Duffy
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-13-2009, 4:44 PM Reply   
The MX350.4 would get the job done nicely with 60W's rms to each speaker, but I wouldn't be afraid to push them with the zx650.4 and 120W's rms.
1 speaker per chnl. If you have a sub, set the X-over switch to Hi-pass and set the Hz's to around 100Hz (can be set to your liking), bass-boost off. If no sub, set the X-over switch to OFF (all pass) and the Hz to 75-80 Hz'z. Head Unit's EQ set to 0 or flat. This is where I would start.

Hay Phil, those new white grills on the KM's are Rockin'!!!
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-13-2009, 5:13 PM Reply   
White grills?
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-13-2009, 5:34 PM Reply   
The new KM6000's come with a white grill and they look killer!
Old     (pc_sledge)      Join Date: Jan 2006       04-13-2009, 6:18 PM Reply   
Wow, what a thread. Phil is highly professional, and very helpful. The guy really represents Kicker as a great company. Thanks for all the professional insight Phil!
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-13-2009, 6:29 PM Reply   
Phil is one of the reasons Kicker is one of the two product lines I sell/install
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-14-2009, 5:57 AM Reply   
A humble thank you...

My pleasure.

Phil
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-14-2009, 9:54 AM Reply   
So phil you agree with the 350.4 for four 6.5" kicker KM620s? I want to make sure they sound amazing!
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-14-2009, 11:01 AM Reply   
Duffy-

That is right on the money in my opinion. It is a pretty standard setup; that is basically what I am running, except I have the MX700.5 which adds a 420 watt digital sub amp in a single chassis. Either way, the power that the 350.4 or the 700.5 delivers is about perfect for a KM620 setup.

Go for it!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-14-2009, 11:06 AM Reply   
I have two 10 inch alpine marine subs running off a momo alpine amp. If I bought the mx700.5 then I could just replace the mono amp and I would have to do as much wiring.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-14-2009, 1:05 PM Reply   
So true.

MX700.5 will get you a minimum of 65 watts RMS into 4-ohms x 4 for the full range speakers. It will then deliver 420 watts into a 2-ohm load, or a little over 200 watts each to a pair of 4-ohm subwoofers.

It is a pretty slick amp!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (wadeaminute)      Join Date: Apr 2009       04-19-2009, 7:30 PM Reply   
Hi
I'm looking to install a budget system in my new boat.
tower speakers - kicker kmt6
amp??
receiver - I was told I could use a car stereo with a splash guard, cheaper and has all the features I want. I want a USB port since all my music is either MP3 or WMA.
sub - skm10 sub box
wiring kits?
Does this sound reasonable I want some descent sound but I don't want to be drill holes all over my boat either??

All suggestions would be much appreciated

Thanks
Wade
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-20-2009, 6:28 AM Reply   
Wade-

Good morning! 'Hope you had a good weekend!

The KMT6 will work best on a Kicker ZX450.2 amplifier; that is just the right amount of power. Always remember, hi-pass crossover on, hi-pass frequency set to 50 Hz or higher, with bass boost totally off.

The SKM10 is a good totally waterproof sub enclosure. You can even toss it in the water with no ill effects!!!!! Don't let the synthetic enclosure material get your head all twisty... Historically plastic enclosures have been plagued by some issues that cause less than desirable performance. The poor performance can be attributed to cabinet flexxing due to wall thickness and a lack of bracing inherent in the manufacturing method.
The SKM10 avoids both problem areas. It has very thick walls and has some trick tooling geometry that causes the enclosure to be incredibly rigid; front-to-back bracing is incorporated into the manufacturing tooling...
The SKM10 is a super solution for anyone wanting bass without cutting holes in the boat or cutting wood to build an enclosure. It is rated at 150 watts RMS, but we run it all the time on both the ZX400.1 and the sub sections of the ZX and MX 700.5 amps, which provide about 210 watts to the enclosure.

Wiring kits are going to provide you a challenge. Most wiring kits are designed for car use where you have a metal chassis for the ground connection. As a result, most amp kits only provide about a 2' piece of ground wire. In a boat you will need to run a ground wire from the amp all the way to the battery, and this usually is farther than 2 feet. If you buy an amp wiring kit, be prepared to buy some additional ground wire somewhere or somehow....

Hopefully this helps you!

Let us know!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (wadeaminute)      Join Date: Apr 2009       04-25-2009, 3:31 AM Reply   
Do I need two amps?
1 for tower speakers and 1 for sub?
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-25-2009, 4:03 AM Reply   
Wade,

To answer your question, no. The problem with this configuration is that the tower speakers and sub will be playing at the same volume level. So when you want to crank up the volume for the rider, the sub is pounding away on the passengers in the boat. You can get around this by using something as simple as splitters and run the sub channel off the main cabin's RCA's and the towers off the other set of RCA's and use the fade in the headunit, or get a set of potentiometers to inline on the RCA's so you can "Fade" the tower and sub up/down, or go with an EQ such as the Wet Sounds WS-420 that will let you control multiple zones.
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-25-2009, 6:17 AM Reply   
My batteries and amp are only about 5' apart. I was able to buy a kit online and cut the 18' power cord in half and use for both power and ground. Many cheaper kits online have poor reviews saying the wire is thinner than it should be. To get around this I just went with 2g instead of recommended 4g.
Old     (wadeaminute)      Join Date: Apr 2009       04-26-2009, 5:35 AM Reply   
Then I would hook up both tower speakers to one (R)side of the amp and sub to the other side(L)?

Thanks for the help!!
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-26-2009, 6:10 AM Reply   
^^^ No, I dont thinks so. You really need a 4 chnl to do what you want to do best. You could do it with a 2chnl running in stereo/bridged mono, but you would need to install hi-pass and low-pass x-over filters and thats just getting too complicated. With the price of decent 4chnl amps out there, just get one. To the get the power you would need to do that, the 2 chnl would probably cost more then a single 4 chnl. maybe even more then a mono for the sub and 2chnl for the tower speakers...........Heck, just pick up the Kicker zx550.3, 2 class A/B channels for the tower speakers, ans a class D sub chnl and includes a remote bass knob to fade down the bass in the cabin.
Old     (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-26-2009, 10:22 AM Reply   
The remote bass knob is not a volume control. It's used to boost a certain frequency, which is more than likely set on the amp.

Most head units have a dedicated non-fading sub pre-out with a level control. Use that for the sub amp, or sub channel, then the other RCA's for the tower speakers. Also, most amps these days have built-in crossovers.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-26-2009, 12:47 PM Reply   
Although the remote bass knob is not a volume knob, it will do exactly as I described. It will allow the user to tone down the output level of the sub. This way, when the H/U volume is turned up, in order deliver music to the rider, the sub can be brought down in order to make the output of the sub a little more comfortable for the passengers.

Using the H/U's non-fade leaves Wade in the same situation............no way to bring down the level of the sub when the towers are cranked.

John, I'm aware that fancy, modern day amps have built-in x-overs, but most 2 chnl amps dont have separate x-overs for each chnl. If you read Wade's post, he was asking about running a pair of tower speakers and a sub off a single 2 chnl amp. To do this, he would probably need to set the amp on Full or All-Pass then use external x-overs the keep the lows from the towers and the highs from the sub. Do you have any other suggestions to help him reach his goal?

Some peeps may like having the whole boat at the same volume level, if that's their bag, then shag it baby!!!
Old     (evil0ne)      Join Date: Sep 2006       04-26-2009, 5:06 PM Reply   
phil, glad to see you on wakeworld, I'm just disappointed it will take away from all of the time you spend on the "other" forum. You, Tim and Duane's involvement (sorry if I missed anyone) is what boating is all about.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-27-2009, 6:07 AM Reply   
evil-

no time lost... I am an equal opportunity poster.

Have a good week all!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-27-2009, 9:19 AM Reply   
Wade - I was able to find many cheap amps that are still good quality at Million Buy which another WW member sugessted.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/millionbuy/amplifier.htm

Note the avail stock button, but also call them before ordering to be sure it is in stock otherwise it can take a week or so for them to contact you about the backorder.

I went with a Crunch 5 ch amp that powers my KMT6, a 12" sub and the four cabin 6.5"s. It was about $120 and sounds great.
Old     (wakemania)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-27-2009, 11:58 AM Reply   
Wakemikey, do you have the WS-420? Right now I have a 4 channel amp powering the KMT6s and the four cabin speakers and a separate amp for the sub. I'm under powered for sure on the KMT6s. I'm looking at either adding another 2 channel amp for the KMT6 or replacing the 2 current amps with a 5 or 7 channel amp. Just curious if the WS-420 would work with what you have. I assume the 3 sets of RCAs from the WS-420 could hook to the one 5 channel amp?

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