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Old     (codykauz)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-29-2009, 12:07 AM Reply   
has anybody listened to these kickers http://www.kicker.com/kmt6 ?

thanks guys
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-29-2009, 4:35 AM Reply   
Yes, I've installed them and of course listened to them. If power correctly, like with the Kicker ZX450.2, 150w's rms x 2 @ 4ohms, you will be pleased. They are the best bang for the buck out there right now. There have been a few threads in the past number of months, try a search for more thoughts.
Old     (lsukuntryboy)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-29-2009, 8:51 AM Reply   
they sound awesome. they aint no wetsounds or nuthin. but they are really pretty good. we put a set on a centurion at the store for 500 and change.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-29-2009, 8:56 AM Reply   
For sure the best you can do without jumping up to the REAAL good stuff.

I got two sets (4 speakers) for $400 and they are well worth that.
Old     (hemihauler)      Join Date: Jan 2006       01-29-2009, 9:05 AM Reply   
I have them and luv them, can hear fine while riding. They are not high end like wetsounds,NVS, and HSE. But a lot of bang for the buck. I got a set for $180 so plenty of money left for gas.
Old     (codykauz)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-29-2009, 8:49 PM Reply   
i would love to be able to afford some wetsounds or nvs but its just not in the cards this summer. i have 2 sets of the tantrum rockford setups running off of fockford 1000a2 and can barely hear them while riding at 75-80 feet behind a mobius xlv. i just want to be able to rock out a little while riding, i don't need a concert hall experience, but i do want to be able to hear them. i'm certain that the rockford is plenty of amp, just hoping they can get the sound back there. kicker has them stated for like 50 feet.
Old     (highrock)      Join Date: Apr 2008       01-30-2009, 4:58 AM Reply   
I had them on my old boat. Loved them. Had a 350.2 Kicker amp on them and could hear them at 75-80 feet fine.

Look on ebay I got my set for $250 plus shipping!
Old     (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-30-2009, 6:57 AM Reply   
I have a friend who has those Kicker Tower Speakers, and I think it is a budget friendly setup. They sound OK at low volume, but once some power is sent to them I'm not a fan.

I would spend a little more and get a much better setup. In the end you will be more satisfied, and you will not end up spending more purchasing a new tower speakers. For example: 2 pairs of our Krypt speaker cans loaded with Polk Audio db651 speakers will look and sound much better.

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com
Old     (tomcat22)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-30-2009, 8:02 AM Reply   
I have a set on my boat and like them as well. U can hear them easy at 70 to 75 feet. Good setup for the price.
Old     (highrock)      Join Date: Apr 2008       01-30-2009, 10:04 AM Reply   
I dont know anything about the Bullet Lines ones, but seems like a lot more money to me. I really wouldnt think they would be as loud without a horn in the middle which you get with the KMT6's.

If your going to spend get some wetsounds 60's for what that costs.
Old     (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       01-30-2009, 10:12 AM Reply   
250 bucks. shoot do it. if you can hear them from 70 to 75 feet out. save some money.
Old     (ncboarderboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-30-2009, 5:32 PM Reply   
$228 shipped here with 2 year warranty
http://www.techronics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=88 19&aff=45847
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-30-2009, 7:02 PM Reply   
The amp and tuning have as much to do with quality of sound and volume as the speakers themselves do. $.02
Old     (tracktor)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-30-2009, 9:39 PM Reply   
Ken with all due respect, the Polks don't compare. I pulled off four Polk 651's in aluminum cans and went with the KMT6's and there is a huge difference. The kickers sound much louder & fuller. Pretty much a back to back comparison same amp running max recommended power to each setup..........
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-30-2009, 9:47 PM Reply   
I have polk audio throughout my boat, and I love them. They don't have a ton of bass, but that's what subs are for:-) I have 4 in the boat, and 4 6x9's on the tower, they have been great. There are certainly better brands, but they are cheaper and are marine certified!
Old     (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-31-2009, 9:38 AM Reply   
Tracktor,

I meant Polk MM651. I'm positive my 4 Polk MM651 on my tower will blow away the KMT6 pushing the same power.

Thanks,

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-31-2009, 10:49 AM Reply   
^^^^ I'd like to be there for that!
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       01-31-2009, 11:02 AM Reply   
Ken,

They might be close, but stating you are positive your car door speakers will blow away speakers designed for the tower is a very bold statement. Granted, the KMT6's may be the weakest tower specific speaker design on the market but still they are designed for the tower, not a car door. Maybe your buddies are not powered or wired correctly?

I would place the KMT6's on par with the Electrovice Evid 6.2's, which IN MY OPINION are better at delivering music to the rider than any car door speaker. Of course they cannot hold a candle to Wetsounds or equiv.

(Message edited by mikeski on January 31, 2009)
Old    falcon_v            01-31-2009, 2:11 PM Reply   
My vote is for polk as I have four on my tower with the same power and can and have blew away the kickers on distance and sound quality. Not saiying kickers suck but polk makes a better product.
Old     (ncboarderboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-31-2009, 2:18 PM Reply   
chris do u know which kickers we are talkin about maybe you are comparing to kicker components in cans.
Old     (antoddio)      Join Date: Dec 2006       01-31-2009, 2:26 PM Reply   
What kind of amp would you need with these to have sufficient power?
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-31-2009, 2:31 PM Reply   
I'll put a pair of Kicker KTM6's up against any car audio cone type 6.5 driver. The Kickers are certainly not at the bottom of the Wake board Tower specific speaker, there's at least 4 that come to mind.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-31-2009, 2:32 PM Reply   
Todd,

150W's rms, see first reply.
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       02-01-2009, 12:17 AM Reply   
Let me clarify.

Tower specific speaker = Wetsounds, NVS, Skylon, Bullet Hollopoint, HSE, or others with drivers designed for use in a soundstage application. A tower is not much different than a soundstage, definately closer to a soundstage than a car interior if we are talking about sound at the rider.

I don't consider any speaker driver designed for car interior use to be a "tower specific design".
Old     (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-01-2009, 9:25 AM Reply   
I'd agree with Mike regarding the tower specifics there are zero other applications for the tower speakers listed.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-02-2009, 12:18 PM Reply   
Hi everyone, I am a first time poster, and I am glad to be able to pop in and share my thoughts!

First off, we all have eyes, we all have ears, and we all have opinions, you need the to use first two in order to come to the third... I am fairly certain that you will see and hear things differently from me, and am certain you will have an opinion. In the end, you need to use your own eyes and ears to form you opinion, and make a decision based on the criteria that matter most to you.

KICKER developed the KMT6 to hit a price and performance goal. It is our opinion that Kicker has succeeded at hitting both.


Here are the facts:

*Each KMT6 enclosure contains a pair of hi-efficiency cone drivers flanking a centrally mounted horn.

*When you purchase a set of KMT6's you get two enclosures as defined above along with all the mounting adaptors and accessories to mount them to round mounting tubes with diameters between 1.5" and 2.5'.

*Frequency response is reported at 50 Hz - 21kHz
*Power handling is 150 watts RMS / 300 watts PEAK
*Efficiency is 93 dB 1W-1M
*The ideal power amplifier will be a KICKER ZX450.2; otherwise use a power amplifier that is 2-ohm stable per channel, and can put out 150 watts RMS into a 4-ohm load.

Key to the design of the product was its efficiency. At 93 dB efficiency at 1 watt at a distance of 1 meter, (the standard) the KMT6 is one of the loudest tower speaker products currently on the market.
Coupled to an appropriate amplifier, and configured correctly, (hi-pass crossover engaged, set to 50 Hz or higher, bass boost turned totally off) The KMT6's will out-perform a whole lot of speakers currently on the market.

Some of you no doubt do not like how the KMT6 looks. I understand. If cosmetics are real important to you, and you perceive that the KMT6 is not the best cosmetic fit for you and your boat, you probably should not buy them.

Some of you might not like the way they sound. That is okay, There are some real high-end home speakers that sound funny to me, (as in funny weird, not clown funny) and that is okay. However, if you are currently looking at or shopping for for tower speakers and SOUND is important to you, you need to find a way to listen. Listen to everything out there. Listen to the KMT6 too and make a decision based on what YOU hear. A whole lot of you will agree that the KMT6 is a super sounding tower speaker.

The KMT6 is not for everyone. Some people are not going to like it for one reason or another and that is okay. However, if you are looking for a loudspeaker that will get your music to the end of the rope and do it at a decent price, you will not find a better bargain.

Phil
Kicker
Old    falcon_v            02-02-2009, 7:15 PM Reply   
Mr Phil White thank you for your thoughts!
I would love to do a head to head challenge with your kicker KMT6 and prove my opinion about the polks.
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       02-02-2009, 11:14 PM Reply   
Phil,

Welcome to Wakeworld, thank you for posting a very informative post as well as identifying yourself as a Kicker representative. We always appreciate when manufacturers post as manufacturers.

I have seen your KMT6's on several boats at the lake and on a few going down the highway. I find them to be a very good solution for the tower for many of the boaters out there.

When this group starts discussing tower speakers we often jump in say X speaker is better than Y speaker without stating our judging criteria. My criteria is at 80' behind the boat, some judge from the beach, others judge from inside the boat. After seeing what has been posted in the last 5 years about tower speakers I find most that prefer car speakers on the tower tend to listen to them in the boat or on the platform. Once you get past the 40-50' range everything changes. The first time I rode my wakeboard behind a boat with tower speakers (four 6.5" door speakers ironically), I thought the driver had turned the music off. I could not even detect a single note from my riding position. The first tower speakers on my own boat were the Evids being pushed with 300 watts each, I could hear them fairly well while wakeboarding but the left me wanting more, my next set was a homebrew mix of Eminence HLCD drivers in aluminum cans, they sounded good until I heard the Wetsounds which I currently run on my boat.

Considering some guys spend over $1,000 on four car speakers in aluminum cans, I find the KMT6's to be a fantastic bargain for the application.

Thanks for posting.
Mikeski
Old     (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-03-2009, 8:23 AM Reply   
I'm going to stay with Chris on the Polks, but I think Mikeski and Phil make some good points. I think the KMT6 is a good low budget setup, and I'm sure it will get the job done.

Personally I'm more into a balance of quality and volume: volume will nearly always compromise quality. Even with a high end driver and horn package sound quality is compromised when compared to todays car audio speakers.

I looked at both the specs on the Polk MM651 and KMT6: I found that both were comparable in sensitivity at 93 db. However, the Polks will take the KMT6 in quality every time.

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com
Old     (dhcomp)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-04-2009, 7:21 AM Reply   
Phil,
I have your kicker tower speakers setup, and its powered by this amp:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-judxuDCvVDZ/p_130GM5300T/Pioneer-GM-5300T.html
which is rated at
125 watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms (190 watts RMS x 2 at 2 ohms)

It sounds like garbage. No way it sounds as good as people are describing. I got the whole setup for under $300, so im not looking for great quality, just good.
Would you guess the amp or the signal is the problem? Its in an 08 Malibu with the JBL black box head unit, and i know the head is only putting out 0.5 volts to its preouts. Thanks!
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-04-2009, 8:00 AM Reply   
Hey DH-

Not good on sounding like garbage!!! At this point, we can be a little unsure about the problem, but we can do some diagnostics...
Can we take a look at basics to start?

I did some quick research on the h/u and the amp, and if I were to float a guess out there from this quick research, I have this feeling that maybe the speakers are getting way more low frequency content than they are designed to.

Check to see that your head unit tone controls are set to flat, or nearly so. All of us use tone controls, but if they are maxed out it is not a good thing...

On the amplifier, make sure that the bass boost is turned off. Unfortunately, that particular amplifier does not have a high-pass crossover, so you need to be careful with cranking the bass up too much.

The gain settings on the amp will likely be higher than normal for that head unit, but they should not be turned all the way up.

This will be a good initial setting to start from. How do you have things set up? Take a look at tone controls, bass boost, and gain settings, and post back up with what you find. If you have something set other than the way I describe, try going to those settings and see if it is better.

Post back, and lets talk through it!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       02-04-2009, 2:22 PM Reply   
DH, throw some 100 microfarad caps in-line to those tower speakers and see what happens?
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-04-2009, 2:39 PM Reply   
Good catch Mikeski...

That is one way around the lack of a hi-pass crossover. Inexpensive too!

We do not know for sure what his stereo problem is, but the bass-blocker capacitors probably should be added regardless what else we might find.

DH, let us know, okay?
Old     (michridr69)      Join Date: Dec 2008       02-04-2009, 7:03 PM Reply   
there nice my friend got them and there super loud
Old     (dhcomp)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-04-2009, 8:35 PM Reply   
Thanks for the input guys. I am away from the boat for the season, but here is what i know.

This is about my 8 or 9th 12volt stereo install, so i have done this a few times. Tones on the deck are set flat. Bass boost off on the amp, gain turned up pretty high. Tried to avoid the high gain, but can't get any volume out of it.

All my experience says that amp may not be the best/loudest/clearest, but should more than get the job done. I'll get some caps installed and see what happens. I forget all the eqns, is a 100microfarad cap the one i want for the right crossover freq? I know this setup isn't going to produce much bass, so i want to cross it over at the best specified point

My plan for troubleshooting when i get back to the boat was to feed the amp a clean source from a setup with a 4 or 5 volt Preout, and if that solves the problem, ill get a new head unit in the boat or add a line driver/eq.

Thanks for the input guys - i know i can get better performance out of this setup.

(Message edited by dhcomp on February 04, 2009)
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-05-2009, 6:16 AM Reply   
hey DH. The equation is: Z=1/(2(pi)fc)

But, here is a site with an easy calculator:
http://ccs.exl.info/calc_cr.html

Note: The KMT6 has an impedance of roughly 3-ohms, not 4.

So, for a 100 Hz crossover point, you want to use roughly a 500uf cap. You probably know this, but use either a mylar 50v cap designed for audio, or use a 50v non-polar electrolytic.

Good Luck!
Old     (deltabri)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-05-2009, 12:28 PM Reply   
dhcomp,
That amp is crap, and I am sure the sound of those speakers would follow (any would with a cheap amp). you can get that amp for $104 @ http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8522_Pioneer+GM-5300T.html. It has 1% THD. Try something with .03% like a JL amp (300/2) for a bit over $200 http://techronics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=25 97&aff=72182. You can make a good speaker sound like poop with a poop amp.
Old     (dhcomp)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-05-2009, 12:52 PM Reply   
Brain,
Thanks for the input. That was my first guess as to the quality. After i decide teh signal is clean and the amp is killing it, i'll step up and get a better amp....probably the recommended matching kicker.
Old     (tracktor)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-05-2009, 2:19 PM Reply   
Phil, since I have your ear-

I just installed the KMT-6's and am getting them set up. I am running a Phoenix Gold XS4600 bridged (300 x 2 @ 4 ohms) According to your tech line it should be fine even with the specs being a bit high. What is your opinion and any suggestions for set up?
Amp specs-
ftp://www.rodinaudio.com/Phoenix%20Gold%20Mobile%20Audio/Manuals/Amplifiers/XS4300%204600.pdf

..........
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-05-2009, 2:48 PM Reply   
Tracktor-

The manual and amp specs are login and password protected; I cannot access...

What is the amp's impedance stability per channel? Is it 2-ohms, or hopefully lower?
Here is why I am asking. Each KMT6 cabinet has an impedance of basically 3-ohms. If you connect the KMT6 to a bridged 4-channel amplifier, you show a 3-ohm impedance to each half of the amp, and therefore a 1.5-ohm load per each of the 4 amp channels...
That is awfully low... Lots of amps can handle that, but since I cannot see the Phoenix manual for that amp yet, I am guessing... Your amp might run pretty warm, or it could go into protect if it has a load sensing protect mode...
The fact that you have more amp than you need might prove beneficial in this case... I am unsure...

Anyway, set the crossover, (if it has one) to hi-pass with a frequency of, oh somewhere between 70 z and 100 Hz. The amp will like the higher crossover better in terms of heat, but it might make your music a tiny bit thin... As posted above, make sure bass boost is totally off... If it has it...

Then set the gains; hopefully you have a standard procedure; something tells me that topic has been discussed a lot. we want the gains as low as possible while still providing ample sound so that the amp is gain - matched to the head unit...

I will interject a personal opinion of mine; I do not like bridging amplifiers. There are some technical reasons why it is better not to. This is not the right time to go into why; it is just my opinion, but I try to follow a mantra of an amp channel for each speaker.

That being said, with the KMT6 there really IS a reasonable reason not to bridge an amp that cannot run at lower than 2-ohms per channel.
Make sure your amplifier is going to be comfy running this speaker. If you have a 2-channel amp that will put out 150 - 200 watts per channel into 4-ohms it might be a better choice.

Let me keep digging to see if I can find a manual for that amp, in the meantime see what you can find out and post back.

Phil

(Message edited by philwsailz on February 05, 2009)

(Message edited by philwsailz on February 05, 2009)
Old     (tracktor)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-05-2009, 3:01 PM Reply   
http://www.rodinaudio.com/pgMobile/literature.php

You can click through this link to the manual xs4600. Thanks for all of your help.........
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-06-2009, 6:53 AM Reply   
Tracktor-

That worked!!! Thanks man...
I took a look at the specs for the amp and they claim 1-ohm stability per channel. According to that, you should be good to go!

Just know that you have a potential of delivering literally twice the power that these speakers are rated for. You want to be careful...

Using Ohms Law, we know that P=IV, where P is power, I is current, and V is voltage. We also know that V=IR, where R is your resistance or in this case, impedance. We usually use "Z" for impedance, but lets stick with R since that is what many people are more familiar with. With a little algebra we can get to the equation, (expressed somewhat like the equation would look in Excel) V=squareroot(PR). This give us the equation where we can calculate and then measure a voltage to properly set the gains of the amp. I used 150 for P, (power in watts) and 3 for R, (impedance) and find that the square root of 450 is approximately 21; That is the value of "V" for volts in this instance.
You will want to set the gains for both halves of the amp at the same time, and set them where amp puts out a maximum voltage of that 21 volts. You will need an AC voltmeter to measure this, and it needs to be set to RMS for an accurate measurement. When I say maximum voltage, this will be measured with a loudly recorded piece of music, or ideally some white noise, (FM static is close) with your head unit turned to its max clean level, typically around 3/4 of the way up.

You really do not want to go any higher, or you run the risk of burning something...

If it turns out that this is too loud, you can turn the gains back down, but something tells me that you won't...

Hopefully that gets you where you need to be. Sorry for the geek-speak; I could have just told you set the speaker output to 21 volts AC measured, but it was probably better to go through the brief explanation. Hopefully there are not too many heads spinning...

Good Luck!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (tracktor)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-06-2009, 10:13 AM Reply   
Phil,

Thanks for the set-up info. I will get the voltmeter out over the weekend. Between you and Tigemike on here Kicker is showing how much they are behind their product. Great info & much appreciated..........
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-06-2009, 11:37 AM Reply   
My pleasure man!

Post back after you get it dialed in and let us know.

Have a safe weekend!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       02-06-2009, 1:45 PM Reply   
Just to do some hijacking. What would you guys consider the best of the budget tower speakers for us boaters that can't load up some wet sounds etc
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-06-2009, 2:03 PM Reply   
I was thinking of buying some PA speakers or concert speakers for 6.5 tower cans. They sell nice 8ohm 6.5 concert speakers on the internet, and I think they would accomplish similiar sound projection to Wetsounds or NVS? You could even mount horn tweeters too. Wouldn't this work?
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-07-2009, 8:02 AM Reply   
Tampawake,

You're not hijacking at all. This thread it's self should be the answer to your question, the Kicker KTM6's at great.

As mentioned in this thread and others, a quality amp delivering the right amount of power is as important as the speakers themselves.
Old     (tl_hereford)      Join Date: Nov 2008       02-07-2009, 3:21 PM Reply   
I just bought four Liquid Audio 6.5 speakers and cans off E-bay for under 300. I hooked them up to a JL audio 500x4 And I am very happy with the sound I get from them.
Old     (ncboarderboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-15-2009, 5:52 PM Reply   
Phil,
We just got a pair of the kmt6s and have them hooked up to a GM-4000F Pioneer amp. It puts out 70Wx2 in bridged mode but is only 2ohm stable per channel. In the garage it sounds great but I was wondering: Will it likely fry the amplifier or go into protect mode when we are out on the lake listening for longer periods of time or cranking up the volume?
Gerald
Old     (neilspen)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-15-2009, 7:31 PM Reply   
Phil,

I just got a pair of kmt6's and I am going to buy a kicker zx550.2. I was wondering how I need to set the amp up for optimal performance? Thanks
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-16-2009, 6:57 AM Reply   
Hmmm...

Neil, the 450.2 will be a better choice, and will save you some coin.

In terms of set-up, it it pretty straight - forward...

Bass boost turned totally off.
Crossover set to Hi-Pass
Hi-pass frequency set to higher than 50; I think 70-80 is about ideal
The gain setting will vary from head unit to head unit, but probably will never be more than half-way up. Ideally, you want to set the gain where the amp clips at exactly the same time as the radio. This is usually where the radio is at about 75% of total volume...
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-16-2009, 7:03 AM Reply   
Gerald-

I do not know the intricacies of that Pioneer amp, so I do not know how well it will be have with the load the speakers present, so take it easy at first until you are comfortable with the system's performance and reliability.
Be tuned in to signs of clipping; an amplifier that is driving a speaker in hard clipping can and will blow the speaker, even if the amplifier is rated for less power output than the speakers.



I will tell you that you can put a lot more power into the speakers, and at some point in the future you probably will want to consider a larger amplifier. When you do so, find a solid TWO-CHANNEL amplifier to run the speakers with.

Let us know how it goes!
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-16-2009, 7:03 AM Reply   
Gerald-

I do not know the intricacies of that Pioneer amp, so I do not know how well it will be have with the load the speakers present, so take it easy at first until you are comfortable with the system's performance and reliability.
Be tuned in to signs of clipping; an amplifier that is driving a speaker in hard clipping can and will blow the speaker, even if the amplifier is rated for less power output than the speakers.



I will tell you that you can put a lot more power into the speakers, and at some point in the future you probably will want to consider a larger amplifier. When you do so, find a solid TWO-CHANNEL amplifier to run the speakers with.

Let us know how it goes!
Old     (ncboarderboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-17-2009, 3:21 PM Reply   
Phil,
Looked at the Kicker 450.2, but the dimensions were too big for the space where the old amp is located. Don't really want to do all the rewiring, so I am now looking at a Kenwood KAC-7204 2/1-channel amplifier with 170 watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms (250 watts x 2 at 2 ohms) that fits the spot perfectly. From your previous comments, it looks like this should work. Your thoughts?
Thanks.
Old     (flordiawakex45)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-17-2009, 3:41 PM Reply   
Dbot5 Speakers kick a$$. just got a set. Way louder then wetsounds
Upload
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-17-2009, 3:48 PM Reply   
So can you here the kicker speakers clearly at 80 feet?
Old    jbpetty6203            02-17-2009, 4:50 PM Reply   
Whats up people... just throwing my $.02 in. I picked up a pair of the kicker KMT6's for a little under 200 from www.cartronixplus.com they may say on the site out of stock but just call them up and it takes about 2 min and they are on the way. Im gona be puting a kicker zx450.2 same site for 145 i think.... this will be goin on my DIY tower i just purchased on a 97 185 crownline.... first boat so we will see how i am doing by the end of the summer... on my new bonifay....
Old     (wakemania)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-17-2009, 5:45 PM Reply   
jbpetty, I tried to order from them today. Called them and they said they were out of stock and that they were being discontinued. I asked if they got that info from Kicker and he said yes and that they were coming out with a new model or something. He said they tried to place a big order and that is what Kicker had told them. I'm not sure I believe it though, but I didn't follow up with Kicker so take it with a grain of salt.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-17-2009, 8:18 PM Reply   
Phil,
Is kicker coming out with a new line? That would be sweet, post of pictures if you can!
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-18-2009, 6:27 AM Reply   
Wow... Lots of traffic on this thread. I am humbled, sort of!!! Anyway, to address a few questions.

Gerald-
The KAC-7204 appears to be a good fit, both in physical size from your comments and from its power output as well, which by spec. is about perfect. Double-check to make sure it has a built-in HI-PASS crossover. You will want that for the tower speakers. I will go look as well...

Wakemania-
Not sure who you are buying from but they are mistaken or were given bad information. Know you are hearing it now from KICKER; the KMT6 is not going away any time soon. It is a proven winner both by my estimates, (can't tell ya or I'd have to shoot ya!)and by the positive comments we are all reading here. If your normal guy can't or won't get them, there is some other reason.

Duffy-
we have refreshed the marine lineup for '09. The KMT6 carries over, and the in-boat speakers have been slightly tweaked and sport tougher new grills with an updated design. We added a new speaker to the line, the KM6000



I do not want to turn a DIY helpful discussion into an advertisement, so go to our website and you can catch up on the latest.
In the meantime, I am going to go check on that hi-pass crossover feature for Gerald...



Good morning all!
Phil
Kicker

(Message edited by philwsailz on February 18, 2009)
Old     (codykauz)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-18-2009, 12:50 PM Reply   
Phil,

I am looking at purchasing two 4-channel amps, one for in boat speakers and the other for the tower speakers and a sub. What amp would you suggest I look at?

Thanks for everything guys. I will be ordering a set of KMT6's on Friday.
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-18-2009, 1:06 PM Reply   
Cody-

What in boat speakers do you have? What is their RMS power handling capacity? How many in-boat speakers?
What is the woofer, how many voice coils and what is the impedance of the woofer voice coils?

I know it is a lot of questions, but we want to make sure that we match everything perfectly.

All we know at the moment is that for the KMT6's you want a pair of amp channels that are two-ohm stable, yet will run at a power output of 150 watts RMS into 4-ohms. Based on the rest of your speakers, it might make sense to buy a two-channel amp for the towers and then get a 4, 5 or 6 channel amp to run the in-boat speakers and sub. You have options, and they are based on the speakers you already have, or are intending to buy.

Make sense? Let us know, and we can go from there!

Phil,
Kicker
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-18-2009, 1:47 PM Reply   
I have the "Outlaw" speaker setup from Kicker, old KMT6 i think... I have 2 sets, 4 total speakers and can hear it fine at 80 ft.... lots of treble but still crystal clear
Old     (wakemania)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-18-2009, 4:19 PM Reply   
Nick, those are the ones I have now (the old Kickers). Mine have gone bad and I'm looking to replace them with the KMT6s. I have four of the old ones and I hope the KMT6s will sound as good. Phil any input on whether the KMT6s will equal four of the older models?
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-18-2009, 5:27 PM Reply   
Wakemania,

IMO, better. Same Kicker quality and performance, newer technology!
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       02-19-2009, 12:18 AM Reply   
Phil,

When running first order crossovers on tower speakers I typically double the desired cutoff frequency to start the shallow taper much higher than I would with second order or electronic crossovers. Targeting below 100hz with a simple cap filter is way too low in my opinion. I would suggest a 200-250hz corner for the KTM6, this should allow somebody to double the rated power, give or take. Anyway I would throw something in the neighborhood of 100-200uF at a 3 ohm load. Maybe try a few different combinations to see what sounds best. There is always a tradeoff between power handling and low frequency response.

my $0.02









ps Why do the Dbot guys always post such douche bag comments slamming other products? I guess it's just jealousy.

(Message edited by mikeski on February 19, 2009)
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-19-2009, 6:51 AM Reply   
Mikeski-

You are totally right with regards to your thoughts on passive first-order crossovers. If you are simply installing a bass-blocker you need to use a higher crossover frequency than if you were using an electronic crossover.


I quickly installed the equation: c=1/(2*PI()*f*Z) into an excel spreadsheet where "c" is the capacitor value in farads, "f" is frequency, and "Z" is impedance. Substituting in a value of 3 for the speaker impedance allows you to vary "f" to see what you need in the way of a capacitor, ("c").

For a corner frequency of 100Hz the cap value is 530uF
For a corner frequency of 200Hz the cap value is 265uF
For a corner frequency of 250Hz the cap value is 212uF

You also can find a simple calculator here:
http://www.ajdesigner.com/crossover/crossoverfirst.php


A note on using capacitors for limiting low frequencies:
You need to use non-polarized capacitors for this task. If you are buying the non-polar electrolytics sold as BASS-BLOCKERS you are already good. If you get a simple polarized electrolytic capacitor it will not work well, and will make things sound really bad. There is a physical way to tell the difference.

A non-polarized electrolytic capacitor will have an indented groove around BOTH ENDS of the capacitor cylinder. This is good.

If you find a capacitor and it only has a single indented groove around one end only, it will not work for you. This is bad.

Finally, you can find some high - quality mylar capacitors. These are usually light yellow and have a muffler shape to them as opposed to round. These are basically always non-polar so you can get these and know they will work well. Just know the mylar caps are pricey..


Hopefully my equations did not make anybody's head spin... :-)

Have a great day all!

Phil
Kicker

(Message edited by philwsailz on February 19, 2009)
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-19-2009, 8:06 AM Reply   
Wow you guys know a lot about speakers!
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-19-2009, 9:18 AM Reply   
Hey Gerald B. A follow-up..

I took a look at the Kenwood KAC-7204 amp. It does have a variable hi-pass crossover, so you are going to e good with that amp from a crossover standpoint.

When you get it, make sure you have the bass-boost in OFF position.

The hi-pass crossover is 12dB per octave, so set your hi-pass crossover to somewhere around 100 - 125 or so... That should get you in pretty good shape from a power handling standpoint.

Congrats, good luck, and post back if you have any other thoughts and/or questions!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (ncboarderboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-19-2009, 6:54 PM Reply   
Thanks for the info. Will let u know how it turns out.
Old     (ncboarderboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-08-2009, 7:48 PM Reply   
Went out today. All i can say is wow. i can sing along without the volume cranked way up. Thanks for the help phil
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-08-2009, 8:42 PM Reply   
I can't believe I haven't seen this thread before now! I have been looking at Kicker KMT6 for some time now they seem to be the consensus pick for budget but quality systems.

I am really looking hard for vendors. Cartronix said they were out of stock call back in a few weeks. Techronics.com has them for $200 but they get horrible customer reviews and they don't offer a Kicker warranty, only their own. This is even thought the product is new in box. This worries me.

I am thinking of pushing these with a Kicker 700.5. I may use the amp for tower speakers, interior 6.5s and one 12" sub. Not sure if will be loud enough at just 75w per pod.

Thanks!
Old     (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-09-2009, 9:59 AM Reply   
WakeMikey-

The 700.5 will be a super amp for your interior speakers and sub, but to ask it to ALSO run the tower speakers is a stretch. Do yourself and get a separate 2-channel stereo amp for the KMT6 pair. The ZX450.2 is a perfect choice.

Good luck and let us know!

Phil
Kicker
Old     (wakemania)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-09-2009, 12:39 PM Reply   
WakeMikey, you would be surprised at how loud they would be with just 75w going to them. I have mine on two channels of a Kicker 300.4 because that is what I already had and they are pretty impressive even being underpowered by that much. However, I do plan on getting the amp Phil has suggested in due time to really get full use from them. If you don't have one already for the tower, then I would go with what Phil has suggested or even the Kenwood someone mentioned above.

I purchased my KMT6s from www.hifisoundconnection.com. The only complaint I had about them was that I could not get through to them on the phone, but they did respond to my emails. I always like to check to see if an item is in stock before purchasing. They are an authorized on-line Kicker re-seller, so you do get a manufacturer's warranty. They have some that are blemishes or refurbished, but still carry a 90 day Kicker warranty. I had them in like three days and are impressed so far.
Old     (nwarhol1105)      Join Date: Oct 2008       03-09-2009, 1:29 PM Reply   
I bought my Kicker zx650.4 to power my Pro 80's through www.hifisoundconnection.com. I called and talked to them to make sure they were "legit" before I actually purchased the amp. Good customer service and prices.
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-09-2009, 2:01 PM Reply   
Thanks guys! I will check out Cartronixplus for availability check as they are new in box with one year factory warrenty for $175. :-)

I was thinking of the 700.5 for tower, interiors and sub, but if it doesn't cut the mustard I would use a deck for interior speakers, then run the tower speakers from the amp, along with the sub on the dedicated sub channel.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-09-2009, 3:28 PM Reply   
Anyone ever tried putting Kicker 6.5 Subs in tower cans? I think that these plus the KMT6 would rock! Here is a link to info on the sub.
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/6044882/vpcsid/0/SFV/30046/sret/16213216215210217182132822212262832162192302872182 25220291224229226297226235230229234247236247246245 238249
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-09-2009, 3:46 PM Reply   
Here is another link http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Cn9oExbHoLT/p_2068C65VT4/Kicker-CompVT-08CVT654.html

Phil, would these work in 6.5" tower cans? Could you hear them from a distance.
Duffy
Old     (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-10-2009, 6:03 AM Reply   
Philllllll my man......

welcome to the wakeboarding world... having fun yet? lol.... your going to have to hire someone full time so that you can get back to designing more product! The start of the season is slow.... i hope to be getting another shippment of speakers in from you. Have a good one man!

Sean
h2oproaccessories
Old     (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-11-2009, 5:59 AM Reply   
huh... that's weird... it cut off half of what I said....

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