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Old     (venom93corba)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-06-2006, 2:41 PM Reply   
Hey guys I'm looking at boats and just got back from looking at the Mal. VLX and Yam. AR210 both were 2006. The Malibu was 54K and the Yamaha was 28K. Now i'm 30 yrs old and a very entry level wake boarder and have never wake boarded behind either of these. I have two kids ages 3 and 5 who love the water. My question is, are the differences in these two boats worth 30K. If money were not an issue I would definitly choose the VLX. Has anyone wake boarded behind a yamaha, can u even get air? I can only see myself able to get the lake about once a week if that. Let me know your opinions.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2006, 2:44 PM Reply   
Id stay far away from the Yamaha if your into wakeboarding. If money is an issue, you may want to check out Moomba, they make a great boat for the money. Also you can find some nice used V-rides for a great price.
Old     (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-06-2006, 2:44 PM Reply   
I would choose any wakeboard boat over an ar 210. The negatives for a jet and wakeboarding are tough to overcome.
Old     (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       07-06-2006, 2:51 PM Reply   
Ya I would buy a used VLX or a new or used Moomba over a new Yamaha any day of the week. The Yamahas are not good for wakeboarding.
Old     (venom93corba)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-06-2006, 2:53 PM Reply   
I know I know, I just can't find any used (2003 - new) wake board boats at the 35K range .
Old     (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       07-06-2006, 2:54 PM Reply   
Like Eric was alluding to, there are many boats in between those too that would suit you better than either. You can get a VERY good inboard for $30-35k. As much as I love the VLX, I would never recommend it to someone spending a day, at best, on the lake each week. What led you to comparing two completely opposite boats--in price and function?
Old     (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       07-06-2006, 2:56 PM Reply   
For a good, family-friendly used wakeboat under $35k look at Supra.
Old     (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       07-06-2006, 2:57 PM Reply   
Something like this is what I was talkin about::
2004 Moomba Mobius LS 2004 Moomba Mobius LS with a single axle trailer. 116 hours. Tower. CD Stereo System with Kenwood face plate, amp, ten inch sub, and ten six inch alpine speakers displayed throughout the boat, including four on the tower. Bimini top. Board Racks. Cover. Two 350 lbs ballasts. $29,000
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-06-2006, 3:04 PM Reply   
it's tough to compare a vlx to a yamaha. the vlx is a wake specific boat. the ar210, though outfitted w/ a wake tower, isn't really a wake specific boat. it only has a 4-cylinder motor and is jet-driven.

if you can get your hands on one, check out a sanger v210.
Old     (venom93corba)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-06-2006, 3:06 PM Reply   
Jeff that sounds more what might suit me better.
Old     (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       07-06-2006, 3:07 PM Reply   
Ya its perfect for what you are lookin for. I got that add off
www.dallasboats4sale.com
I know you are not in Dallas, but there are boats like that all over.
Old     (wakeriderixi)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-06-2006, 3:38 PM Reply   
That title is funny!
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-06-2006, 3:49 PM Reply   
I've seen a lot of people make the mistake of buying a boat that isn't wake worthy. They buy another boat thinking they are purely recreational, next thing you know your kids get really into riding and you end up canning the non-wake boat for a more wake oriented ride.

Also looking at resale I'd imagine a wakeboat will do a lot better on the open market.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2006, 3:59 PM Reply   
boattrader.com is a great site to find used boats in your area, im sure there are many other places you can look to
Old     (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       07-06-2006, 4:00 PM Reply   
That's a good point, Guido. I'm finding myself in that very position. Tough sell on the Mrs. She thinks that wake boats are not versatile enough for everyday use. That may have been true in the past, but not anymore. Manufacturers figured it out that people felt that way and made changes to overcome the objection. Now I just have to convince her.
Old     (rsc)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-06-2006, 4:23 PM Reply   
The answer to your question, in my opinion, is yes; the differences between the Yamaha and the VLX are worth $30K. This is not to say I think you should buy the VLX, but rather, I think you should not buy the Yamaha. There are many other alternatives, besides the VLX, that would likely suit your needs much better than the Yamaha.

As others have suggested, a lower-end brand (still very nice boats) and/or used wakeboard boat would be my first choice, if I was in your shoes. Another alternative, that Iím surprised no one mentioned yet, is a sterndrive. I expect you could find a real nice, new i/o, for the same price as the Yamaha. The watersports performance would likely not be in the same class as the wake-specific models, but would be much better than the jet-drive Yamaha, as I think most would agree.

While I am sure there are some who own and enjoy their Yamahas/jet-drives, and I donít wish to offend them, let me share my experience. I had the opportunity a few years ago to spend some time riding behind, and driving a Yamaha (donít remember the model, but I think it was their largest at the time). Perhaps some improvements have been made since then, but it would be difficult to overstate how much I hated that boat. The wake was small, washed out, and turbulent. The ability to maintain consistent speed was not good. Tracking was terrible. I hated the multiple controls for the throttle (one for each of the two engines, and one for shifting forward/neutral/reverse). Noisy. Lots of vibration (dual engines). It was one of the most ill-suited boat for me and my family that I can recall being on. I donít consider myself a boat ďsnobĒ. I have owned mostly older, beat up, outboards and i/oís over the years, and only this year upgraded to an older direct drive (which I love, by the way).

The Yamaha would be better than no boat at all, and more power to those that get out on the water and have fun with them, but for the price, it would be at the bottom of my list.
Old     (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-06-2006, 5:20 PM Reply   
I've spent a good amount of time defending I/Os and outboards on this board, but a jet boat? I just can't defend that. I'd get a used inboard for that kind of money.

As a fellow stern drive owner, I really have to disagree with rsc's recommendation of getting a nice, new I/O. Not really for any sort of performance issue but just because a new I/O is going to cost almost as much to get it set up with the same ammeneties that a wakeboat has but it'll drop in value like a rock compared to that wake boat.

Personally, if I were you I'd get a very used but very cared for boat in the $5k-$7k range. The fact that you're comparing the jet boat to the wake boat tells me you're not totally sure exactly what type or size boat you want to begin with. Get a nice but old 18'-20' runabout or ski boat with wake potential (2001, tristar, etc, inspected first of course). You'll be able to sell it later for about what you bought it for and in the meantime you'll get a good idea of what type of boat works best for your family. Save the major purchase for when you know exactly what you want in a boat.
Old     (rsc)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-06-2006, 6:37 PM Reply   
Good point by Dante. Didn't mean to imply a new i/o is the right choice, only that it would be a far better alternative than the jet boat.

(Message edited by rsc on July 06, 2006)
Old     (lakeguy77)      Join Date: May 2002       07-06-2006, 6:38 PM Reply   
rsc made some excellent points. I've ridden behind Sea-Doo's attempt at a wake boat (a couple years ago now). For starters, it was very noisy. Reason being, it had a Mercury OUTBOARD 2.5L V6 engine mounted INBOARD like an I/O, but with the jet drive out the back. The guy who owned it had about 600 lbs. of ballast in it plus the 4 of us out that day, and the wake was very large, but it was also very mushy. My Mariah 18' I/O with just 6 people in it throws a wake two-thirds the size, but the pop is much better because the wake on my boat is solid and predictable. In addition, I can ride at 55-60 feet on my boat. I was using a 50 foot line on the sea-doo boat, because any further back the wake washed over. Furthermore, because of the jet, when riding between the wakes, it was very turbulent and I kept feeling like I was being pitched out.

At the end of the day of riding behind a 20' or so Sea-Doo "wake-purpose" boat with ballast, tower and kickin' stereo, I was wishing for my 18' I/O bowrider with low rear-bumper tow point, 2 speaker stereo, and "small" wake.
Old     (ghostrider_2)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-06-2006, 6:41 PM Reply   
These come to mind

SANGER
SUPRA
MOOMBA
TIGE
CENTORION
Used MC,BU,SAN

STAY AWAY....FAR AWAY from the 210
Old     (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2006, 6:43 PM Reply   
Umali, you stole the words right off my keyboard! Sanger V210. Chad, you can get a brand new V210 in the mid to upper 30's, or a nice used one for mid to upper 20's.
Old     (troyl)      Join Date: Feb 2002       07-06-2006, 6:44 PM Reply   
This is a great thread. The entry level boat sales world would be rocked if every new buyer followed the advice here and did not make major purchases on the emotion of the moment, or the size of the payment.
Old     (ridetilldeath)      Join Date: Oct 2005       07-06-2006, 7:09 PM Reply   
is this the same boat that WB magazine featured in a recent issue?
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       07-06-2006, 7:56 PM Reply   
Like comparing diamonds to coal if there is such a thing.

Even skip the '06 VLX and buy a 1996-2000 Nautique Super Sport, you'll be glad you did.
Old     (jovedawake)      Join Date: Mar 2006       07-06-2006, 8:30 PM Reply   
You could get a new Sanger V210 for around $35,000. Sanger boats are made to last. They perform great and rarely have problems, if ever. I encourage you to at least give Sanger a chance and test drive one.

Good luck.
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       07-06-2006, 8:40 PM Reply   
This is all IMO, based on limited experience with jets, but...

I don't think anyone has mentioned that an inboard will be MUCH more reliable than a jet, and easier and cheaper to repair when it needs it. I know the older 2t jets needed rebuilds every 300 hrs or so, not sure about the newer stuff.

Why only look at new(ish) boats? For $30k, you can pick up a VERY nice used Vdrive, and some new ones for a little more, that you seriously may never want to upgrade.

If you're into watersports and buy a new jet, you'll be taking a bath on it in 2 years tops. The only thing jets are good for are tow-ins, powerslides, balsas, and rivers.

As a new boat owner, you might want to consider spending around $7-10k on a used open bow direct drive or I/O. I'd rec a DD, but as said above either would be a much better choice, and if you don't end up sticking with it you'll likely lose very little on it.
Old     (csquared)      Join Date: Jan 2002       07-06-2006, 9:31 PM Reply   
Funny you should ask about these two boats. I have both sitting out at my dock. The VLX is mine and my parents bought the Yamaha (non-wakeboard version). Without restating everything that was said above, there is no comparison between the two. The Yamaha is good at what it does and is a well equipped and well built boat but it is not a wakeboard boat.

Couple things:

The Yamaha has twin 4-cyliner 4-strokes. They are more reliable than the two-strokes but they are loud and it burns about 25% more fuel than the Malibu. If you are looking for a low-maintenance boat that works for a family, the Yamaha is a great choice but it should in no way be compared to a tournament boat. Also, the Yamaha is HUGE on the trailer. It wont fit in a standard garage as the boat sits really high on the trailer.

The VLX is an amazing boat. I had a 99 SuperAir and while I will never say anything bad about a Nautique after the experience I had with the SuperAir, the Malibu has exceeded all expectations so far.
Old     (ducttape)      Join Date: May 2006       07-06-2006, 9:39 PM Reply   
My bro-in-law bought an ar230, so I have spent a lot of time behind the yamaha. When it came time for my own boat, and after doing research and test driving ALOT of boats I bought a sanger v210. The yamaha is very difficult to maintain a steady riding speed. It is loud, and doesn't track very well. Very hands-on driving. With the dual throttles I don't think you could add perfect pass. The wake is fine for beginners, but will quickly get old. The yamaha has great features. The yamaha has tons of storage and an awesome walk-through swim step set up for kids. It is the ultimate kids/family/tubing boat. But...after driving and riding behind my Sanger my brother in law has his 230 for sale! (Looking at a Malibu)
Old     (badbob13ftw)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-06-2006, 9:54 PM Reply   
I have an 06 vlx luv it ... it is a big boat and it does burn the fuel (6-9 gph)... we (16/18 + me 46 yr olds) just started wakeboarding 2-1/2 yrs ago, started w/ a 19' dd w/wakepole, 3 gph.. pd $6k... great boat to learn/play with... stepped up to the 06 vlx in march ... huge wake ... may be to big for little kids ... take your time either way, ride both wakes w/ your kids ;) gl ... pics of both boats
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Old     (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-07-2006, 1:01 AM Reply   
An I/O will definitely be "versatile enough for everyday use". It will take some time and money to make it good for wakeboarding, not professional quality but then again most people that buy competition/tournament quality v-drive wake boats will never be capable of what the boat is. I/O hulls can be finiky so dont think all I/Os will produce a quality wake but there are many (i've got a 200 monterey) that will do great when set up and also be a great all around ride. Do you ever or frequently ride on rough water as that is a big kicker for alot of d drives, very rough in the chop.
Old     (venom93corba)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-07-2006, 4:55 AM Reply   
Thanks guys there are some excellent points made in this post. With the great info from this post i will most likely be looking at a new or used Sanger or Moomba. One of the dealerships that is closest to me is getting in a 2003 VLX next week so i will be checking that out as well. Yeah I was seriously checking out that AR210, this is why this site is so great. I could of easily purchased that and been board with the wake in a week.
Old     (briand)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-08-2006, 6:43 PM Reply   
Sam I think that you are thinking of the sea doo boat for wakeboarding, and sorry if someone has already answered this, I didnt read all the posts very carefully.

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