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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through September 04, 2009

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Old     (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-01-2009, 4:45 PM Reply   
I have a buyer wanting to trade one of these in - is there a market for these boats, and or parts available.

I don't recall ever seeing one on the water let alone riding in one, its a 2000 21' Epic DD Closed Bow with a tower, Stereo, low hours etc.

The www.epicmarine.com website shows these things being worth a mint compared to any other closed bow, direct drive boats of the milenium era. Are these things really worth 15+K?
Old     (eaglejackson)      Join Date: Oct 2004       08-01-2009, 8:29 PM Reply   
You might talk to Mark Lord at Seattle Watersports. He had a couple of these that he sold, the last one maybe two years ago.

IIRC Toyota pulled out of the market because there were problems with chine-locking on the hull.
Old     (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-02-2009, 6:23 AM Reply   
Eagle,
You don't remember correctly.
Old     (eaglejackson)      Join Date: Oct 2004       08-02-2009, 7:31 AM Reply   
Here is some history of the Epic http://www.epicmarine.com/history.html. Note that it mentions the chine lock problem as part of the decision to pull out.

Psyclone, how do you remember it?

(Message edited by eaglejackson on August 02, 2009)
Old     (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-02-2009, 8:59 AM Reply   
Seems like I recall a few issues Toyota ran up against. The chine lock problem was caused by the Florida boat manufacturer they bought out leaving the mold sitting out in the hot Florida sun for too long, which made it warp. They made & sold a number of boats before they pinned it on the mold.
Then the Lexus engine they decided to use had some low end torque problems, especially with some weight.
The two issues seemed to effect almost every boat they made, which made them reconsider the move into the niche market.

Mark used to give me a Toyota for SeaFair to run patrol inside the boom. It was a really well made boat, and that engine was so quiet you could barely hear it. But it was no Monsoon.
Old     (lakeski)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-02-2009, 9:12 PM Reply   
Are you a dealer looking to make some money by flipping an Epic that you take in trade?

All I can tell you is that my local dealer in Wisconsin calls me almost every spring and every fall asking if I'll sell my Epic 22 (open bow) because he has people who want to buy it. I bought it 5 years ago and I could probably sell it today for a profit. How many boat owners get calls from the dealer that sold them their boat, years later, asking if they'd like to sell and to name their price? But, I bought my Epic to enjoy, not to flip in a business transaction.

Questions about the motor's torque? Check this recent thread about Epics: http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/718300.html?1248878508
One of the comments about the Lexus motor sums up why these boats are so desirable:
"1UZ motor 4.0 DOHC (Quad Cam) v8, no lack of power probably outperform an iron pushrod 350 and use half the fuel."

In my experience, this is true. I have never had one complaint from any rider about torque. In fact, most people ask that I reduce the power I use to pull them from the water because there is just too much. And it does sip gas vs. any other engine out there.

Also, Eagle mentions chine lock above. The history Eagle cites goes on to say that Toyota recalled and replaced all defective E21's with new boats. So, chine lock should not be an issue that impacts Toyota Epics 21's today. If anything, how they handled the chine lock issue is an example of how a company earns the outstanding reputation for quality that we all think of when we think about companies like Toyota/Lexus.
Old     (eaglejackson)      Join Date: Oct 2004       08-03-2009, 4:36 PM Reply   
It is pretty amazing that Toyota replaced all boats affected by the faulty mold with brand new boats. How many companies would do that?
Old     (phenom_1819)      Join Date: Jan 2008       08-03-2009, 6:14 PM Reply   
My experience mirrors lakeski's. While I've moved on to a newer v-drive, I still think about my Toyota almost daily. Never had a single problem, plenty of power, sipped fuel. Great, great boat...
Old     (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       08-04-2009, 4:18 AM Reply   
I guy I used to ski with on my lake bought one new in 1999 , as pertaining to low in torque the engine was terrible getting us up out the hole and when we would run the slaloum course it would drop ever so slightly when making the cut back giving you line slack. After multible warranty issues he finally sold it.
Old     (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-04-2009, 8:30 AM Reply   
lakeski yeah I have a customer that wants to trade on in on a new vdrive, I really don't care about making anything I would just like to flip it for what I allowed before the season is over. Are these boats marketable?
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-04-2009, 8:38 AM Reply   
I'll just tell you what I saw. We have a local dealer that was selling them around here. I saw a new dd and v-drive sit for years before they sold. Maybe they were asking to much for them who knows but they didn't move for a long time. I'm not sure it would be a quick sale for you unless you didn't offer much on trade.
Old     (mtnsmith)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-04-2009, 8:49 AM Reply   
My dealer had an epic on consignment forever, I just checked and it is not on the sight anymore, you might call and ask if it finally sold and what for? 727-544-6440.
Old     (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-04-2009, 9:14 AM Reply   
I am probably looking at about 14K with this thing and I have been researching them all morning - they are definately in higher demand on the east coast. The boat is like new with a system, nice tower with bimini, everything is there for a good tow boat at a reasonable price the name is going to be the issue I think.
Old     (phenom_1819)      Join Date: Jan 2008       08-04-2009, 9:26 AM Reply   
Nubu, you're talking about SkiMasters/SWS, and he had them for more than a year. I know they used at least one of the boats for their schools. He told one of us on epicmarine.com that he "liked having them around". Seemed like a funny thing to say and I'm sure he had a reason. But the bottom line is, Mark's boats were over-priced which is why they sat for so long (I know, because I tried to buy one of the DD's).

Toyota boats are marketable, and they have a following. Just do some reading on epicmarine.com. People will pay for that engine.

I had mine for sale all over the country, and got calls (even months after it was sold!) from everywhere from the midwest to Canada to California, to my own backyard. Within one week, it was sold for full asking price (and at top dollar) to somebody who drove 6 hours from Canada to buy it.

Bottom line, you'll get a buyer for it and I wouldn't worry about taking it on trade.

(Message edited by phenom_1819 on August 04, 2009)
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-04-2009, 9:50 AM Reply   
Cal I think everything they had or have there is overpriced. Those boats did finally go, just not sure exactly how long they sat.

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