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Old     (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       05-28-2006, 4:16 PM Reply   
Just curious if anyone has ever run into any shady dealings......Ive found a boat dealer that carries a few boats in his revolving inventory, and is ALWAYS well below the going rate.

Just makes me wonder, anyone know of any obvious things to look for?
Old     (kristian)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-28-2006, 4:30 PM Reply   
maybe he has "hidden" costs or something. Look into it, you never know. But I'm sure they'll find a place to tack on some extra numbers if its really that low. Or they'll tell you "we just sold it, but we have this........." which would be a normally priced boat.
Old    wakebmxer            05-29-2006, 11:49 AM Reply   
In Nor-Cal Stay away from Ultimate Water sports / Cope Mc Pheters.........you will thank me. Go down to Ski World in Pleasanton if want a Mastercraft.
Old     (shellyrn)      Join Date: May 2006       05-29-2006, 12:05 PM Reply   
Copes huh? I had a great buying experience with them and have had excellent service to...
Old     (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       05-29-2006, 2:15 PM Reply   
Guys Im not trying to call anyone out, I just found a dealer that has boats for considerably less than the going rate and wondered what I should watch out for....please dont bash anyone on this post.

www.midwestwakeboarder.com
Old     (dbjts)      Join Date: Nov 2003       05-29-2006, 2:19 PM Reply   
Maybe he’s just laundering drugs money for a huge Columbian cartel and doesn’t need to show a profit on the boats.
Old     (sjmedic)      Join Date: May 2004       05-29-2006, 8:06 PM Reply   
Not bashing anyone mike...but Ultimate has treated me VERY well in the past, and they will always have my business. One persons bad experience doesnt make it a bad dealership. Now....does the manufacturer know how much below everyone else he is selling his boats? That is the best question to ask.
Old     (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       05-29-2006, 8:36 PM Reply   
I should have been clear to start, these are all used boats.....going way under the going rate (duh, mike makes a difference).

So my question to wonder what could have happened......flood boats, salvage, etc. They all appear to be clean, low hour, well running (claimed anyways) boats.

Old     (fyrdawg29)      Join Date: Mar 2006       05-29-2006, 9:01 PM Reply   
IM not for bashing dealerships but... i have had numerous incidents with Ultimate service center in Vacaville. They have done me wrong so many times. The majority of these incidents have come within the last few months and am a firm believer that it is a result of the service manager there. My issues have gone all the way to Malibu. On the flip side of it all, the service manager at Bell Aqua (also owned by Ultimate) was awesome. He bent over backwards to assist me. He has my business. Its always hard when ya spend 50K + on a boat not including accessories and dont get treated well... My .02
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-30-2006, 7:21 AM Reply   
Cope's/Ultimate is a very large organization now. If you are having these service realted issues, you can always contact me personally as I am here to resolve some of these matters. Also one of the owner resides in the Santa Clara store 6 days per week if you need to voice yourself. Mike, I know if you have issues you can call me. Since Ski World is going through major issues, I would bet there customer service is not quite what it was. So, if you have a legitmate concern that a store is not resolving get a hold of me or contact one of he other stores for assistance.
Old     (sjmedic)      Join Date: May 2004       05-30-2006, 7:26 AM Reply   
That changes things a little Mike
Old     (mattbob)      Join Date: Jan 2003       05-30-2006, 8:09 AM Reply   
Small dealer = small overhead. I have bought a few wakeboard boats at auctions for resale. In each instance I was able to pocket $5-10k and still sell the boat $5k less than similar advertised prices. Price is the only way a small guy can compete against big dealers.
Have the boat surveyed by a mechanic.
Old     (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-30-2006, 8:16 AM Reply   
Ski World may be making changes but they are, and always will be the best dealership in Northern California. Copes Has a bad name around here and there's a reason for it. If you want a Mastercraft go to Ski World and if you want a Malibu go to Boat Country.

In the end you'll be happy you did.
Old     (three6ty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       05-30-2006, 8:52 AM Reply   
Mike,
When reasearching used boats i do a couple of things that may help you.

Get the hull ID number from the boat.
Call the Maker ( malibu, Supra MC ) call the Head office.
Ask what dealer this boat was sold from. Also ask if there has been any warranty work done on it.

Then call the dealer where it was sold and ask them if they performed any maintainance and or warranty work. Also ask if there was anything else that they did with the boat ( fiberglass repair, vinyl repiar ).

Finally make sure the boat was not from the New Orleans/ Miss/ Fla region. It could be a Insurance total or a repo.

Alot of used boat dealers will buy thier inventory from auctions. Although many of these boats are perfectly fine , some will have hidden problems. Be thourough and have it compression tested and check all oils for water in them.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       05-30-2006, 9:18 AM Reply   
"One persons bad experience doesnt make it a bad dealership."

haha...how about dozens or maybe hundreds?

You will find more unhappy Copes customers than happy Copes customers. No experience myself, but you will find that to be the case in the bay area.
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-30-2006, 10:37 AM Reply   
So Cope's has been in business over 57 years through gas crunches, recessions, changs in the watersports(kneeboarding,wake, slalom) and even customer complaints. When you are the largest marine dealer in the state and probably the country, are'nt you bound to have some unhappy customers? I am not saying it is OK to have unhappy customers, but you will never make everyone happy. If Ski World was not is business, would they still have the best customer service? If they could no longer sell Mastercraft, would they even be around? I hold nothing against them and in fact like almost all of the crew there, but behind the scenes the Cope's have been leaders on the West Coast and in the marine industry. If you had bad customer service from any company, would'nt you start with the manager and move your way up? Both owners still work every day in one of their stores and are accessible. The whole reason I work with them is to help restore some of the customer service problems and when problems arise amongst wakeboarders, help them to resolve the matter. I have put myself out there many times to help customers that were less than satisfied, who ended up long time customers now. If you have been wronged, I can try to help, but talking smack and not actually experiencing a problem, is just BS. I have a million stories about Ski World doing wrong or making mistakes that ended up being resolved by Cope's, but is this the time or forumn to voice those things? I think not. That does not help our sport grow at all. If there customer service was so bad, how in the heck have they survived and grown year after year? Hold the hate and go ride.
Old     (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-30-2006, 11:22 AM Reply   
Buffalow

"Ski world is going through major issues, i would bet their customer service is not quite what it was"

I'm pretty sure the above quote was aimed at swaying potential boat buyers away from Ski World.

"Hold the hate"?

Practice what you preach
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-30-2006, 12:39 PM Reply   
That is not hate my firend, just an observation. I am not saying to not buy from them or even buy from Cope's. I am just the hate thing does'nt help us grow or unite. I also did not say there customer service was bad, I just said I did not think that it was quite what it was, that's all. As far as I am concerned, anybody buying product at a local Norcal shop is good for the sport and that's cool with me. I am a very direct individual. If I intended to spray or sway people, I would have been quite clear about it.
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-30-2006, 12:41 PM Reply   
Oh and Matt. Considering all I have sacrified for this sport, promotion of riders including your brother, promotion of ALL shops in the area, I don't think there is one person that knows me to say that I hate on a shop or indivdual in our sport. I have known most of the Ski World people for over 10+ years and am cool with Dennis, Udie and the others.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-30-2006, 12:45 PM Reply   
how's this for shady?

the sales clerk AND owner of the shop talks smack about the brand(s) they don't carry just to sell the brands that they do carry.
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-30-2006, 1:01 PM Reply   
That sounds like a Ford vs. chevy vs. Dodge car lot.
Old     (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-30-2006, 1:05 PM Reply   
Sorry for being harsh, Just mad that i'm back at work and not on the water.

Hope all is well and here's to a good summer.
Old     (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-30-2006, 1:07 PM Reply   
Joe, i know what your saying, I would be much more inclined to buy a product from someone who actually has the balls to say good things about a competitors product.
Old     (sjmedic)      Join Date: May 2004       05-30-2006, 3:48 PM Reply   
Sorry if I offended anyone...buy your bloody boat wherever you want.
Old     (three6ty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       05-30-2006, 3:58 PM Reply   
Why dont you all stop whining like little girls.

Mike was asking a question a question about the dealer he is dealing with. Who gives a SHAT about Copes or Ski World.

Every single post turns in to this petty bickering. If you cant contribute to the original post then dont post at all.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-30-2006, 4:07 PM Reply   
nice contribution to the thread, erik!

haha! just kidding man! gonna miss you when i move to norcal.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       05-30-2006, 4:09 PM Reply   
E Double. How about you take your own advice?

Old     (three6ty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       05-30-2006, 4:51 PM Reply   
Hey J-Rod.

How bout reading what I did contribute to Mike's question.
Which is better than anything you offered up.
Quote" You will find more unhappy Copes customers than happy Copes customers. No experience myself, but you will find that to be the case in the bay area."
Thanks for the advice since you have NO EXPERIENCE YOUSELF"

Sorry to hear your so sensitive .

Joe,
Good luck with your move. Tell frankie good luck in Med School. I hope everything goes great with both of you and congrats on the engagement as well.
Take Care

Old     (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       05-30-2006, 5:33 PM Reply   
To get back on track, moot point......the boat I wanted sold before I could get to it.

Sorry I started this post, its could to see you all proud of who you respect in the industry, and even better to see some of you hold your tongue to those you dislike.

Bad customer service doesnt develop relationships that become repetitive, true colors always shine with time.
Old    polobuds            05-30-2006, 5:39 PM Reply   
i agree with wakebmxer. i bought my boat (87 seaswirl) used from ski world in pleasanton and they were cool. i was able to knock off $500 and he threw in some goodies.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       05-30-2006, 6:44 PM Reply   
Wow you really snap don't cha?

I never said I offered anything valuable to the thread. I just said you should take your own advice, which is "If you can't contribute to the original post then don't post at all." You were the only one here to whine like a girl.

My statement about Copes happens to carry merit. If you were as involved in the bay area boating community as I am, you would understand why.
Old    wakebmxer            05-31-2006, 1:28 AM Reply   
A buddy of mine went to Ultimate Water sports(Cope)in Rohnert Park. Got a quote for the best deal available period. He went to Cope in Sac and got the best deal possible on the same exact boat for $6000 less. Thats shady. But thats the truth. ANd the RP store called him and got pissed for buying it from Sac. I dont know the Sac store at all and I am basing my opinion on the Rohnert Park store. The actual Cope owner also took down my wakeboard school flyers because they have a school in Sac at their Private Lake and felt I was taking business away. I serve the North Bay lakes with my wakeboard school. Not Sac. Also my friend Mike Rogers (Old School Pro)used to work there, He has some stories. I will admit Ski World isnt the same and their Santa Rosa store closed. I was one of "the family" there. I lost my boat shop family. And I respect Buffalos opinion and loyalty to his Cope Family, he ia a positive force in the NorCal Wakeboard community. I am mainly speaking experiences of the North Bay stores. I want another Mastercraft but probably wont get one cause I would have to deal with The Rohnert Park store. I might just get a Bayliner..... My opinion. Sorry to continue this post in a bashing.... Buy your boat from who ever is most honest and customer service friendly, I am done.
Old     (sacdeep)      Join Date: Aug 2001       05-31-2006, 9:17 AM Reply   
I dont have a good thing to say about Ultimate I tried and tried to make it work but it was like pulling teeth. So I finally got smart and wont go back
Old     (zhendrix)      Join Date: May 2006       05-31-2006, 9:42 AM Reply   
Boat buying can be a tricky process. There are numerous things you can do though to insure that you are getting the best deal(which includes price/customer service/overall experience) possible from the best dealership possible. There are tons of manufactures and even more dealers within these. What makes it even more confusing is when there is more than one dealer for the same manufacture in a local area. This creates a lot of "he said she said" type conversation between the consumer and dealers. The best way to determine what dealer to buy from is to price out the EXACT same boat at both dealerships. Believe it or not you can purchase a base Malibu VLX for 48k (no trailer) an on the flip side you can also purchase a loaded VLX for 65k, so make sure to price out the same boat.

Coming from the only dealership in the nation that sells Malibu and Mastercraft under the same roof(Darryl Moore's Marine in Houston) I see this problem all the time. I agree that its not fair for one dealership to price out someone 6k more than the other but most boat companys have regional sales areas. We are located in Houston and if a person from New Braunfels comes to get a quote from us then of course its gonna be higher than what Texas Ski Ranch in New Braunfels quotes them. We could lose our license to sell Mastercraft if we do stuff like that. Our dealership has a great relationship with the guys over there at TSR especially Steve. I think they do great work and we always try to work together. If I quote a customer from here that is going over there ill call steve to let him know where we are at. This helps prevent the shady-ness.

Buying a boat(especially a 60K wakeboarding boat) is not like buying a used car and you shouldn't be treated as if you were a used car buyer. In retrospect, Don't treat the dealer like you are buying a used car and "deserve" special treatment and a discount. If you were quoted less than what we quote you tell us where you were quoted and the name of the person that quoted you. I have no problem honoring a quote or going below a quote as long as it is honest. We will be here to service you and handle warranty issues so its important to be fair. I do agree with Mike in the aspect that you need to purchase a boat wherever you are treated with honesty, good customer service, and you are the most comfortable.



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