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Old     (sangerlover)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-26-2005, 9:03 AM Reply   
I hope all of you had a merry Xmas . I can hardly wait for spring to get back out on the water but in the mean time I hope you can answer my question . I have always disconnected all the battery cables from the battery and set both batteries on a trickle charger for a couple days each month during the winter but is there a easier way that would allow to keep all the cables connected and still apply a charge to both batteries at the same time ? I just installed a C100 combiner last night and got me thinking about a easier solution of keeping both of my batteries charged all winter long from a single source of power and not having to remove all the cables .
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-26-2005, 10:35 AM Reply   
"Battery Tender" makes trickle chargers that you can leave connected all year long. They will charge your battery at a rate of 1 amp per hr till it's fully charged then it will turn off or go to what they call a float charge. It will kick on when it sences the charge dropping in the battery's and kick back on. Im running 4 of them in my boat and I have been running them for about 4 years and I have never had a problem. They sell for about $50 each.

http://svtsupercharged.com/gallery/charger
Old     (sangerlover)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-26-2005, 10:41 AM Reply   
Grant--
So no issues with leaving the combiner hooked up with all other cables. If I hook up to starting battery, the combiner should open allowing 2nd battery to take a charge ?
Old     (andreas)      Join Date: Jul 2005       12-26-2005, 11:08 AM Reply   
Grant, Can you make me one of those?? I need a 6 battery version!!!

Andreas
Old     (andreas)      Join Date: Jul 2005       12-26-2005, 11:09 AM Reply   
OH!! and I want a custom case say out of Carbon Fiber. I know you can do it and I will Pay of course.

You Da Man!!!!
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-26-2005, 11:58 AM Reply   
Andreas, When I made my charging station this didnt exist


http://batterytender.com/product_info.php?products_id=19
They are $249 and it will charge 4 batterys independently. Depending on how manny batterys you have you might need 2 of these? And Yes we can make a custom case that sits above your boat on your lift. And then have a coard that you can pull down and attach to your boat to charge your battery's
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-26-2005, 12:09 PM Reply   
BTW: I have 2 chargers. The case charger is what I plug my boat into at home when its gonna be there for a bit It takes about 2-3 days to fully charge my 5 batterys back to life. Then I have a 2nd roll around style charger thats a fast style charger. This is what I use to charge up the batterys overnight. It will push 190 amp's, You must use this charger carefully, you can cook your battery's realy quick
http://www.batterychargers.com/details.cfm?prodid=SE%2D4020&catid=38

Old     (supreme_rob)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-26-2005, 12:16 PM Reply   
drag specialties makes a battery tender for about $30 sold at most motorcycle shops, it works great.I removed both of my batteries and placed them on my work bench.I keep the tender on them and they will remain fully charged as if they were on the shelf at a store.
Old     (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-26-2005, 1:05 PM Reply   
I want the alarm working throughout the winter so removing the batteries is not an option for me. I also don't have any AC power near where the boat is parked.

My solution is this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/12-Volt-Solar-Battery-Charger-For-Auto-or-Marine-Use_W0QQitemZ7575300515QQcategoryZ20794QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

This is a small, less than 5 watt solar charger. When I put the boat away for the winter I wrap it up in a blue tarp. I run the wires from the solar charger under the wrap and then fastened the solar charger down to the trailer fender with bungee cords.

On a bright sunny day it will provide about 1/3 of an amp, which is enough to make up for normal battery self discharge and what the alarm requires and yet not be so much that it will damage the battery. Even on a cloudy day it will provide around 1/10th of an amp.

I also have one of these on my camping trailer that I leave on year round. I have actually run the battery down on the trailer till it was DEAD and this little charger brought the battery up to a useable level of charge in a couple of weeks.

I am not fond of the idea of running an extension cord outdoors to a boat to keep the batteries charged. There are too many situations where bad things can happen as a result. If you aren't shrink wrapping or otherwise covering the boat up in way that makes it a pain to open up then I would recommend just opening the cover and hooking up a battery charger for a few hours each month.

Unless you have something that is really sucking the power you should be fine for a month or three at a time. You certainly should consider getting a full charge on the batteries before your first outing next spring, and a mid winter recharge if your winter break is more than 4 months.

Old     (sangerlover)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-26-2005, 1:14 PM Reply   
Rod--
So to get down to the basics . I have 2 blue tops seperated by a C100 combiner . Can I leave everything hooked up and put 1 battery tender on the starting battery and still have both batteries receive a charge . Is charging batteries while still hooked to the boat a bad practice ?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-26-2005, 1:14 PM Reply   
I was looking at the solar chargers. I wanted to intergrate them into the tower speaker box. Im guessing I could fit like 3 or 4 of the ones Rod showed. But if they are only throwing 1/3 of a amp and I would need like 4 of them linked together to make a full amp. Im not really shure for me its worth the hassle. But im guessing that a great Idea for someone that the boat sits outside
Old     (andreas)      Join Date: Jul 2005       12-26-2005, 2:35 PM Reply   
Grant,

Got that already. Why dont you make me a case with two of those bad boys in it. (2 x 4 = 8)

In a carbon fiber case of course.
far shot!!!!

Now for the Close UP SHOT

Close UP
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-26-2005, 2:49 PM Reply   
Ok sounds good get me the charger's and Ill make you a sealed case with a drop down Amp connector (quick reliese) connector that attaches to your boat. One connection charges all 8 battrey's.
Old     (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-26-2005, 3:12 PM Reply   
JTW,
To answer your question: Yes, your combiner should open up when you apply charge at the main battery, or wherever your alternator is connected to the starting battery.

I did one single 6 amp charger for a season or two, then I put a heavy duty two bank charger in. It does both banks independently, and can put all 20 amps in one bank automatically if needed. I have a marine socket mounted in a storage compartment, just plug an extension cord in. It will charge 4 optimas overnight no problem. They make three bank ones too.

Here's a link

I painted mine black, btw!

http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.SceneSeven?hvarTextId=74190&hvarSourceName =images2/92500/92925.jpg&hvarType=0&hvarLinkEnabled=false

Old     (andreas)      Join Date: Jul 2005       12-26-2005, 3:12 PM Reply   
It might look cooler if we use 8 singles or should I get two quads???? Has to be really stealth so I can take the case to the Office!!!

Old     (andreas)      Join Date: Jul 2005       12-26-2005, 3:15 PM Reply   
Grant,

have you seen these waterproof versions??

Have one hooked to the boat now??


I think 6 of these in a case would be cool as they are very slim and appear to be totally sealed and need no cooling??

Andreas

(Message edited by andreas on December 26, 2005)
Old     (andreas)      Join Date: Jul 2005       12-26-2005, 3:17 PM Reply   
or these for the PWC's
Old     (sangerlover)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-26-2005, 4:19 PM Reply   
I have not unwrapped my boat today to try out my 1.5 amp charger yet but Im thinking that it might not deliver the 13.3 volts that the c100 combiner needs to open up .
Old     (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-26-2005, 4:31 PM Reply   
My Hellroaring would blink until the charging battery was full, then when 13.7vdc was achieved, it opened to charge the other battery. It should work the same way on yours, it will just take three days to charge your starting battery.

If you play loud and long, and deplete your batteries, you'll need a bigger charger if you go out more than once a week.

How big is your alternator?
Old     (sangerlover)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-26-2005, 4:37 PM Reply   
Alt says it is rated for 70 amp. So with my 1.5 amp charger it could take a few days to charge the starting battery but once it reaches the 13.3 volts or so the combiner will direct its charge to my 2nd battery . Is that correct ? For winter storage that seems fine to me .
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-26-2005, 5:19 PM Reply   
Andreas I havent seen the waterproof ones, Yes 6 of them in a carbon fiber brief case with a window would be cool.
Old     (andreas)      Join Date: Jul 2005       12-26-2005, 6:06 PM Reply   
OK lets do it. Do you want me to order up the chargers????

Can you make the case or how do we do that???

Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-26-2005, 6:15 PM Reply   
Yes I can make the case and put the charger's in it along with a window so you can see the charge stauts. Yes order the chargers and when I get them I can make the box that will hold them. Ill take a look at how you will hang the thc charger and make the case either long or wide depending on how it will hang
Old     (andreas)      Join Date: Jul 2005       12-26-2005, 8:42 PM Reply   
I am on it!!
Old     (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-27-2005, 11:49 AM Reply   
About battery combiners and trickle/float chargers....

A typical battery combiner will keep the batteries isolated until the charging voltage reaches a certain point,usually somewhere around 13.5 volts. This is a nice feature as it assures that your starting battery gets priority.

A trickle charger may never reach the voltage needed to trip the combiner, and if it does it may not have the current to keep the combiner engaged once the load of the second battery kicks in.

Here is the sceanario: Trickler charger is connected to a battery that is sitting at 12.3 volts. At this voltage the trickle charger may provide one amp, slowly bringing the battery up. After 50 hours or so it will have brought the battery up to 13.5 volts. As the voltage rises the trickle current decreases, so it may only be providing 1/2 amp or less.

The battery combiner senses the voltage is high enough and connects the second battery, which is sitting at 12.3 volts. There will be a quick rush of current from the charged battery to the second battery as the voltages equalize, probably around 12.6 volts or so. Now, the trickler charger is trying to charge the second battery but it can not keep the voltage high enough and soon the combiner does its job by disconnecting the second battery because the voltage isn't up to 13.5 volts.

Trickle charger slowly brings the main battery back up to 13.5 volts and the above cycle repeats. The second battery will get a little bit of charge, but it will certainly give the battery combiner a workout in the process.

A "float" charger will provide both batteries with an initial charge but could leave the second battery out in the cold indefinately. A good float charger will have sufficient current output to charge the first battery up and keep it up when the second battery connects in. If it is a "smart" charger it will continue to charge until the combined battery voltages are up to 14 volts, then it drops back to "float".

If the float voltage (typically 13.2 volts) is low enough for the combiner to disconnect the second battery then only the primary battery will "float". The float charger will merrily keep the main battery at its float voltage indefinately, the combiner will keep the batteries isolated and the second battery will slowly discharge.

A saving grace is that a power cycle will start the phase over again, so all you have to is pull the plug and start over once a month or so to keep the second battery happy.

If you have a battery switch that allows you to connect the batteries together then you are better off doing that and charging them as one bank.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-27-2005, 12:41 PM Reply   
Rod: What do you do for a living? You are the Charging Guru of Wakeworld. I never see you post on to many things but when someone has a question about charging or alternator's you are the man.
Old     (sangerlover)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-27-2005, 12:52 PM Reply   
Thanks Rod--
I figured you would get me straightened out . I will take the combiner off during the winter and cable both batteries together for charging .
Old     (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-27-2005, 3:11 PM Reply   
The charger I posted is one of the smart types. I wired it so that it parallels the isolator/combiner, so that both banks get full charge all the time when it's plugged into AC. It's totally sealed, you can put it in the bilge if you want. It cost a few bucks but it's worth it.
Old     (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-28-2005, 7:52 PM Reply   
I am an electrical engineer. :-)

I have also had a number of cruisers/houseboats over the years and have dealt with deep cycle battery issues a LOT!
Old    hickdawg79            12-29-2005, 2:54 AM Reply   
Hey this is my first post ever! I am relitively new to this site and even wakeboarding for that matter. Last summer was my first full summer of wakeboarding atleast twice a week! So, now I am hooked and plan on buying either a VLX or the X2. In either case, will I need multiple batteries and a charging setup like this on a new boat? I would really hate to have a brand new boat dead on the water 2 weeks into the season!! Thanks for all the info this forum is awesome!
Old     (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-29-2005, 10:38 AM Reply   
David:

It will depend on your stereo and other accessory items and how you use them.

If you have a really loud stereo system, then anchor the boat off the beach and crank the tunes while you are barbecuing on the beach then you will need additional batteries so that you can start the boat to get home.

If your stereo system isn't too crazy and you don't crank it up except when you are under way then you probably wouldn't need an additional battery at all.

This discussion is more relevant to the people who have a long winter down time and want to make sure that their batteries are well cared for. People who put their boats away in October and have to wait until April for the ice to melt can get their boat out of storage and find they have dead batteries and worse, the batteries have been damaged from being discharged so deep for so long.
Old     (blownc6)      Join Date: Aug 2004       01-04-2006, 12:16 PM Reply   
I have a "Guest 2611A" http://starmarinedepot.com/GUEST+2611+Waterproof+Battery+Charger.html that is mounted in one of my storage compartments next to the batteries. When I get home I plug it in until I use the boat again. It has 2 DC outputs(1 for each battery) and an ac power cord. I've done this for 2 years, no problems at all. I called the manufacturer and told them exactly how it would be used and this is what the recommended.
2611a
Old     (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-09-2006, 3:09 PM Reply   
so here's a question

i have my regular cranking battery and then i have a blue top, but they are isolated with a switch, not a combiner. how would i go about trickle/float charging them? i would need 2 of those battery tenders, right? or at least one for the cranking battery? actually, another question, is it bad not to charge them? i have them switched to off, and i haven't removed them or disconected them (it's a total bitch to get to them), so is that bad? i live in a pretty mild climate (seattle) and the boat is garaged, but not heated.
Old     (sangerlover)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-09-2006, 5:25 PM Reply   
Bruce Mac--
If I understand everything I have learned from the guys here you would just turn your switch to the all or both position which now your batteries are in parallel and then just plug your charger into the house battery and they charge as 1 bank .
Old     (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-10-2006, 3:35 PM Reply   
can someone confirm that?
Old     (superairdawg)      Join Date: May 2003       01-24-2006, 10:21 AM Reply   
From JTW's post:

"...just turn your switch to the all or both position which now your batteries are in parallel and then just plug your charger into the house battery and they charge as 1 bank ."

This sounds good to me, but one of the apparent no-no's of putting multiple batteries in a bank and charging them is when they're not the same battery model and age. My starting battery is different than my house battery, so would it be okay to hook them together and float-charge them together?

I know float chargers (especially the smart ones) have built-in logic, whereas an alternator doesn't. But I would still question whether they are that smart, or if a charger that handles multiple banks is a better solution.


(Message edited by superairdawg on January 24, 2006)
Old     (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       01-24-2006, 11:07 AM Reply   
I have two separate float charging systems for my two different banks. I have one charger on my stereo batteries and one on my starting battery. I would not turn the switch to "both" if the batteris are differnt types ( flooded/wet vs gelled or AGM) if they were two differnt brands of wet/flooded batteris you'd probable be ok , but I wouldn't mix-n-match the types. I use a 7 amp float/smart charger on my stereo battery (2 6v golf cart batteries) and a 3 amp smart/ float on my starting
Old     (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       01-24-2006, 12:17 PM Reply   
I seen on this site that the alts. are not a effective way to charge your batt. but every time I check my VOLTS,it is high.Check it just now,I have a digital one on the cap and that reads 13v.
Old     (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       01-24-2006, 12:29 PM Reply   
Big Ed you are correct , alt's are not battery chargers but act more like maintainer's/power sources. A great way to fry your alt is run your batteries down low when the motor is off , then start it up and crank the radio, and turn on some lights. your battery maintainer probably keeps a float charge of around 13.5 ish.... you should see close to 14.2-14.4 w/ the batteries fulled charged, motor on and no acc. on. I'm normamly around 14.2.
Old     (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       01-24-2006, 1:05 PM Reply   
when there dead i charge them
Old     (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       02-02-2006, 9:59 AM Reply   
The EASIEST way to charge your battery is to have Wal-Mart do it for you. I bought a marine battery with a one year warranty 3 years ago from Wal-Mart. Some time before the year is up (going by either the date stamped on the battery or your receipt if you still have it), I take it back and tell them it won't hold a charge. Then I go get a new, fully-charged one from automotive and make the swap with no further questions asked or tests performed. Not only do I not have to spend money on foolish things like chargers, I always get a new battery in the process. I'll do the same thing in instances like when my boat developed a short and drained the battery or the time I left my nav lights on. I've probably gotten about 6 batteries from the $65 I spent. My most recent battery has only been used once to troubleshoot a fuel issue (pump is probably hosed :-( ).
Old     (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       02-02-2006, 10:15 AM Reply   
That's more hassle than it's worth. lifting 60lb batteries at funny angles out of storage areas is not fun. Most of the time if I sit for a while and run my stereo my batteries are low and need to be charged, I don't want my alt to have to do all the work, that's usually at the end of the day and the alt wouldn't have enough time to recharge them if I needed it to.
Old     (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-02-2006, 10:28 AM Reply   
Uhhhh....Dante, I think you're going to the inferno.
Old     (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       02-02-2006, 10:51 AM Reply   
Going to an Inferno? Nah, the battery company just tests it, charges it, slaps some plastic caps on the ends, puts the wing nuts in a plastic baggie, and ships it back to Wal-Mart as a new battery. I guess I'm lucky and don't have the battery in a hard to access place. Then again, I also don't have a stereo to drain it.
Old     (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-02-2006, 1:46 PM Reply   
Thats also one of the reasons everything has risen in price. So you honestly dont feel you are cheating or commiting fraud, if not all the better for you? Why does walmart owe you 6 batteries for the price of 1? Spend the money on quality batteries like optimas or golf carts for stereo loads and you wont have to touch them for 4-5 years.
Old     (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       02-03-2006, 6:47 AM Reply   
I generally just run my boat for 6 or 8 hours a day...it works like a charm!
Old     (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-03-2006, 9:59 AM Reply   
Adam,I read more like 14.7v when running...doesn't matter if I have my stereo cranked up or any accessories running at the same time....it holds at 14.7v
Old     (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       02-03-2006, 11:31 AM Reply   
Ed, are you testing that at the battery or reading a guage on the dash? How big an alt do you have? It's a ltitle high (nothing to worry about though), but that's great if you see no voltage drop when everything is running.

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