LED in rear vents. Legality

So I was thinking about adding some LED's in the rear vents of the new boat that's coming in... but thought of something.

I was wanting to run red LED's in an all black boat.... BUT am I gonna run into legal issues w/ red LED's in the rear side vents. Started thinking about the port marker light and interference there.

(Message edited by Tanner on March 11, 2008)

I'd say white, blue, or red, would look too much like an emergency watercraft, and would be a ticket waiting to happen. $.02

Does look cool tho, our dealer had an RZ4 done up for the show with 2 in the front vents and 2 in the back vents.

I did the 4 rear vents and 2 front vents all in red but the season has yet to begin, but i also live in the sticks. Not too much to worry about in Lake Milton Ohio

what was I thinking putting blue in my vents?

I would think Blue or white would be no problem. Especially since white is the stern marker. And the blue isn't flashing.

Green or Red, and your asking for it. But not totally sure.

I put red in my back vents and haven't had a problem... The cops round here tend to disappear after dark unless there is a big party... I may put them on a separate switch from the interior before to long to avoid any problems.

Hell put what ever you want where ever you want as long as you are not moving it is all good. that came from a sheriff we asked

shawn k, did some red LED's on his old X-2, although he was on a private lake, really nothing happened or was said to him from what i know, i used to have some pictures on here but i think i lost them,..but yea i believe he had a seperate switch in the interior as well, turned them on and shut them of at his choice..

I have blue LED's throughout my boat including my tower and the rear vents. At the end of last season we got pulled over for someone standing on the swim platform and the police "warned me" that it is illegal to show blue or red lighting visible from the outside of the boat with the one exception being your navigation lights.

I don't know if it is truly illegal or not as he didn't write me up for it, but I am more sensitive to when I run those blue LED's.

it may not be legal but i dont ever remember seeing a sheriff boat out when its dark enough to even see the lights.

I've heard of one person being harrassed due to LED's, and he had blue.....again, $0.02......

Tanner: You don't list where you are from in your profile, So I cant answer your question. Im guessing in some states its ok and some its not. Here in California it is a "no no" to have blue light's in and on your boat. Blue lights are used by the water patrol and there for when you display Blue light's the police think you are trying impersonate them and that's why they have the right to hassle you. Mike got a ticket for this exact same thing.

Oklahoma.... but the lake I'm concerned with is LOTO

You're legit in CA! Whoever got the ticker should have fought it in court and have the water patrol guy learn the laws, in court!!!

Read Section 652.5(C) of CA boating law, definition of the "Prescribed" lights - you are ok with a blue light in CA as long as it is not flashing as described below in Section 6591 and not in front of the boat or on top of the boat.

Here is the text of the law in California:

652.5. Lights for enforcement vessels. (a) The use of a distinctive blue light as prescribed by the department is reserved for law enforcement vessels and may be displayed during the day or night whenever the vessel may be engaged in direct law enforcement activities, including, but not limited to, those activities specified in subdivision

(a) of Section 663.7, where identification of a law enforcement vessel is desirable or where necessary for safety reasons.
(b) That light when used shall be in addition to prescribed lights and day signals required by law.
(c) The display of such blue lights on vessels for other purposes is prohibited.


6591. Blue Light for Enforcement Vessels.
The distinctive light prescribed by Section 652.5, Harbors and Navigation
Code, for law enforcement vessels shall be a blue colored, revolving horizontal beam, low intensity light rotating or appearing to rotate because of a pulsating effect gained by means of a rotating reflector which causes a flashing or periodic peak intensity effect. The light shall be located at any effective point on the forward exterior of the vessel. A shield or other device fixed or movable, to restrict the arc of visibility may be used if desired.


Also: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/regulations/33CFR088/33CFR88.htm

(Message edited by kvoman on March 12, 2008)

Well they were on top of the boat (I.E. tower speakers) but not flashing I'm sure.

I'm not so much worried about impersonating an officer, as the navigation lighting issue.

You're only adding light to the rear vents so you're good.

wow didnt you read 652.5-c "The display of such blue lights on vessels for other purposes is prohibited"
that sounds to me like no blue lights on the exterior of a vessel.

Yea I don't care what Kvoman's link or rules say I go by what happens in the real world. If 50% of the cops say it's illigal and they then have a EXTRA reason to pull you over and stop your party I say
F' it. But for thoes of you that like to challange the law of go to court to fight stupid stuff like this Please go right ahead knock your self out. In fact Kvoman you should do this upgrade to your boat so that the cops in the delta can be busy messing with you and your lights while the leave me alone. LOL

Ooo by the way be sure to print out and carry with you your "Law's" so you can prove the cop's wrong I bet they will apreciate you telling them.

lol.. thats funny... see i wont led out my boat so they wont have a reson to even come over to my boat... see if you have like two beers in an hour your over the limit. thats so stupid cause two beers dwont make me to drunk to drive so i would rather have my beer and not chance drawing more attenchion to my boat with all kinds of flashy lighs and crap. plus our local lake closes at 9 pm and you have to be off the water. plus i thought neon light and stuff went out in the late 90s... ha ha

I'm with WhoCares on this one, that's how I read it.

William: From what I was told Blue is the only illigal color. I was told this by a friend who got a ticket for his Blue LED lights. When he was getting the ticket he asked the cop. What about other colors? like RED! The cop said Blue is the color we use and that why its illigal 4 you to use it. He said he didn't have a problem with red. Now with that being said I wouldn't go marching my boat full of red LED's in front of the water cop's expecting NOT to get pulled over. Just like we all know blasting your Loud stereo is not illegal just as long as you don't do it in front of the water cop's.

thats how all my sheriff friends read it mike. keep the blue inside or invite the water dogs in.

So if the Blue lights are on the inside it would be fine? Just not seen from the outside?

thats what the badges in my area tell me.

I think I'm just gonna stick the vent lights on a seperate switch from the rest of the courtesy lights, so I can turn them off underway...lol.

Tanner, I have red leds in the inside of my boat and in the back vents (supra SSV). I have never had a problem and we go to Draper, T-Bird and Eufaula...But when we are out at night the stereo is not laring or doing stupid stuff to draw attention to us. On a seperate note I did get a warning for using a spot light to navigate thru a stump field at Eufaula one night.....he said it would blind the other boat drivers...And I said WTF there is nobody else out here...lol

LMAO... are you serious? We don't have a problem at Tenkiller w/ Lake Patrol which is where I'll spend the majority of the time. But a few times this year, I'll be at Lake of the Ozarks, and I hear the cops are HORRIBLE there.

Just don't use the LEDs while underway and you will be ok. Have you ever seen a car on the side of the road with 2 or more cops going all through it? The cop pulled them over more times than not for something like no front license plate and that allowed them to go through the rest of the car. My buddy is a cop and he tells me about how he does this all the time. Want to have a safety inspection on your boat then give them a reason to pull you over. Like Grant said better you than me.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/535028.html

The ticket involved a 5 minute discussion about blue lights and a one hour sobriety test because they could still smell the beer I had 3 hours earlier.

It's not worth the hassle and risk they catch you the one time you are just over the line.

I specifically asked about other colors, they said they would frown upon red or green due to navigation issues. Once they realized I was stone sober they even said it was too bad about the law because they thought my boat looked very sharp with the blue accent lights. It was a fix-it ticket requiring me to remove the lights. What arrived in the mail included an option to pay $140, which I did immediately. I am currently in the midst of changing all of my LEDs to white, booooring. Oh well.

Brandon, in ALOT of states, in including mine, they don't have to have a reason to pull you over for a safety inspection.

They have the right to do it at any time they feel like it. And trust me, they use it to find ANYTHING they can write you a ticket for. The TX cops on the TX side of Texoma are about the worst I've ever seen about this. They wrote my little cousin a M.I.P after they boarded my boat. He was under 21, and there was beer on the boat, none of which were opened yet, and the other 9 people on the boat were all well over 21. He had his ice chest of cokes too. Still wrote it to him. I through a fit, so they wrote me a contributing to a minor. Then stole our ice chests.

I then later called and raised hell about their actions. Their supervisor later had the tickets torn up.... but it was still rediculous. Just remember. Alot of times, they don't even need a reason.

Out of curiosity, where is the best place to get LED's and is there any special equipment required?

Rob, just out of curiosity, where is the other half of your windshield in your profile pic!?

Jake, its an 88 MC Tristar 190, wrap around seating. No observers seat on left hand side. Don't have that boat any more, sold it in 2006 so I could come back to school, bought a 96 PS 205 last spring, sold it. Just bought a 95 sunsetter from a guy in California that I haven't picked up yet.

So about those LED's?

Nice!

I have red 4-pod LEDs in my rear vents. No issues.

Rob - there are tons of LED places online. One good one is www.led-concepts.com.

I'm just merely pointing out the facts. Take it for what it is and yes I do have blue LEDs in my boat and yes, I do have a copy of this law, specifically this section in my boat!!! If you're not informed about the laws, you're more likely to do as you're told. But if you know the laws, you can within reasons, stand up for yourself. Yes, the cops are supposed to know the laws but how many do you know that know every single boating laws?

Also, did you read the entire Section 6951 and specifically the bold sentence? and about the rotating or pulsating effect?

kvoman
While you are correct with the portion of the law as you have posted, you are not legal with the full section, specifically parts (d) and (e). The only reason is that the verbiage is not complete as it does not specifically reference "that light", like section b does, when it talks about the illuminated blue light, so a patrolman can read it either way, and so could a judge.

652.5. (a) The use of a distinctive blue light as prescribed by the
department is reserved for law enforcement vessels and may be
displayed during the day or night whenever the vessel may be engaged
in direct law enforcement activities, including, but not limited to,
those activities specified in subdivision (a) of Section 663.7, where
identification of a law enforcement vessel is desirable or where
necessary for safety reasons.
(b) That light when used shall be in addition to prescribed lights
and day signals required by law.
(c) The display of such blue lights on vessels for other purposes
is prohibited.

(d) Any vessel approaching, overtaking, being approached, or being
overtaken by a moving law enforcement vessel operating with a siren
or an illuminated blue light, or any vessel approaching a stationary
law enforcement vessel displaying an illuminated blue light, shall
immediately slow to a speed sufficient to maintain steerage only,
shall alter its course, within its ability, so as not to inhibit or
interfere with the operation of the law enforcement vessel, and shall
proceed, unless otherwise directed by the operator of the law
enforcement vessel, at the reduced speed until beyond the area of
operation of the law enforcement vessel.

(e) The operator of every cable ferry shall take whatever
reasonable action is necessary to provide a clear course for any law
enforcement vessel operating with a siren or an illuminated blue
light, or both.

Those do not refer to any type of light other than an illuminated light. The section parts you posted refer to the specific rotating or blinking light. The way these rules are written, they can be taken independent of each other, so if you are running illuminated blue lights, anyone you pass on the lake must follow sections (d) and (e), thereby making you impersonate an officer. Looks to be a simple loophole, but one that can land you a fine nonetheless. Whoever edited the final rule probably did not think to add the verbiage "that light" to section (d) and (e). One more addition is that if you read the rule in the other side's favor, it can read that section (a) is specifically referring to the use of a blinking light as it pertains to a law enforcement vehicle. So a law enforcement vehicle can have numerous types of blue lights, red lights, orange lights as he chooses, BUT a blinking or revolving blue one is specifically reserved for those vehicles, there fore it is the only one you are required to stop for. Doesn't say it can't be stationary. This is a very vague rule, so you are usually best to stay on the safe side.



whocares (liljohn)
That specific part is legal to run blue lights b/c it references "such lights" specifially referring to rotating or blinking officers lights as described in the other rule.

(Message edited by olSkoolTige on March 13, 2008)

Tanner, I know that they can. But you are about 1000 times more likely to get an inspection if you are doing something illegal than just a random inspection.

But the whole point of this thread was whether or not he can install blue LED lights on the rear vents - The simple answer is yes! Since he's not going to be chasing anyone down in reverse with the blue flahsing/pulsating LED lights in the vents, he's not impersonating anyone!!!

Section 6591 defines what constitutes "Blue Light for Enforcement Vessels".

It further reads The distinctive light prescribed by Section 652.5, Harbors and Navigation
Code, for law enforcement vessels shall be a blue colored, revolving horizontal beam, low intensity light rotating or appearing to rotate because of a pulsating effect gained by means of a rotating reflector which causes a flashing or periodic peak intensity effect. The light shall be located at any effective point on the forward exterior of the vessel.

I still disagree.......The only legal, externally visible lights are a white 360* and a red and green bow light that is not visible 120* past the center of the bow.

According to most state waterway laws, any other lights are illegal

Kvoma: People come to wakeworld for advice. His question is it LEGAL to install blue lights in the rear vents of the boat. Answer Yes. No law saying its Illegal to install blue lights. Is it legal to turn them on and display them? I think we all know the answer.

Will you get hassled for installing blue light's on the exterior of your boat YES.

Like I said Kvoman: Why don't you install some on your boat and find out.

Actually G I asked about Red, due the Navigation issue. ;)

But I think we'd all be better off if we just played it safe and put our tower speaker lights and vent lights specifically on a switch.

not to stir the pot more but when I drove my jeep on the street I kept a copy of the Arizona revised statutes with me because I didn't run mudflaps and hilighted the mudflap law to show cops when I got pulled over (4-5 times when I owned it) and got off 100% of the time for it. Jeep wranglers being below 10k gvwr are titled as station wagons not trucks and the mudflap law governs "trucks" with suspension modifications. MY buddy w/ 35" tires hated my 38's w/ no flaps.

Granted... I got hassled for it and knew it, expected it and carried the ARS w/ me to get away with it. Cops here can write tickets for anything. They won't hold up in court but you still have the hassle of going to court to fight it and the off chance the judge is in a bad mood and penalize you for it anyways. What I don't understand is if I don't know how to do my job I get in trouble but a cop who tries to uphold laws he doesn't know anything about gets away with it without a slap on the hands

Sorry Tanner, yes you did say "Red" and everyone went off on a tangent!

"G" man - I do have blue LED in my boat, as posted in my earlier post.

TigeMike - I never said anything about having blue LED light anywhere outside, or in front, or above a boat.

What you said is correct and I agree with that.

My bad kvoman, I thought this whole thread was about having LED's in the rear vents, which are typically located on the outside of the boat.

I did not say that I disagreed directly with anyone by name, but do disagree that it is legal and safe to display lights other then the red/green and 360 white while running, and the 360 white while anchored. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

This will be interesting. I'll know soon about Texas and red lights. A guy I know is putting them on his new VLX. I don't ever see cops on the two lakes where we all ride, but I would assume any red lights on (with the exception of navigation lights) while underway would draw unwanted attention to you and more than likely a ticket, which no one wants to deal with. I can't see where it would be a problem if they were solid and the boat was stationary

Here is what my buddies stereo shop in Georgia is turning out...Go Performance Works!!!
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii156/zcannaday/S5030972.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii156/zcannaday/S5030971.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii156/zcannaday/S5030970.jpg

Actually, you will get pulled over for running with tower lights on too even though they are of the white variety and may only be facing the rear.