Who rides without health insurance?

OK, so I have no health insurance. I ride occasionally and avoid trying anything new because of it. I'm getting bored and want to start playing around again and trying things. I know its not smart, and just cause other people do it wouldn't make it smarter, BUT it would make me feel like I'm not alone in this boat. What really is the worst that can happen? What happens if something horrible happens when you have no health insurance? Are there payment plans? Or does the medical field just own your soul?

I'm right there with you bud. No health insurance right now and it sucks! It is on the back of my mind and I end up not going as big or pushing myself as hard. Someday...soon hopefully!

Thats why you have spare kidneys and wot not. You can sell all sorts of bits you will never use and fund any injury rehab.

i guess you could always sue the good mate that's given you a ride behind their boat if you hurt yourself.
seriously, i just don't get it - you're not the only one who will be affected if you're badly injured. think of the financial burden on your family and friends if something happens - it's just not fair or reasonable!!

"it's just not fair or reasonable!!"
like always i get stuck paying the bill
another reason to wakesurf

If you don't have insurance, you should stay home.

One word for you....COLBY!!! Look up the thread and read the story.

(That was his name right guys?)

CANADA!!!!!!!!!!!!

None here either. Insurance is one of the biggest scams in this country right now...

Nope! I need that money for gas!

If you don't have insurance..... does that mean you should live in a glass case? I have insurance.... all it's good for is taking my money. Deductible is never met in a year because it's so FREAKING HIGH. The only reason I have it is just in case my wife gets prego and if I hurt my myself to where I might die....

I agree.... it's a legal scam....

Wow,

You guys are crazy. Insurance is something that people think is a scam until they actually need it. Maybe you should read the threads on here that people post up about being out for the season with all sorts of injuries. Than call up the hospital and see how much it would cost to fix a blown ACL.

I guess filing for chapter 11 is always an option if the bills get too high. Either way, it is totally irresponsible to participate in high impact sports without insurance.

Ive had over 100 grand in wakeboarding related surgeries. Thank God for insurance on those, but yeah, it definately is a frustrating thing to think about.

OK, my rant ~ been self employed for 35 years, wife and two kids. Always had the high deductible blue cross. Never met the deductible yet. No major health issues, and never a claim.

So if I never had insurance, I would have saved over $100,000, and been able to invest it.

But, what if something serious had happened to me or a family member?? Gotta have it, I guess.

Same goes for my car insurance ~ 35 years plus and no claims on my fault. Insurance is just that way, never need it unless you don't have it

"totally irresponsible" is the best way of describing it.

You guys runnning around with no insurance are playing with fire. If you're seriously injured, you and your family will regret having no insurance. Bad, bad, news. And we're just talking about wakeboarding right now.

It may be a scam, but it's a necessary one.

Chris, go find some wood and knock on it! :-)

This was so big that we even had a fund raiser in california.

He was an experienced rider doing a basic wake jump. Still in a coma as far as I know.

http://www.wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=1200

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/471906.html?1183754828

Y ou only live once.. I havent had insurance for along time and it hasnt stopped me and I have yet to get injured.. if that is what is holding you back, then good luck to you. You take a huge risk just getting into your care everyday.

Its okay to not have insurance if you can pay out of pocket. I work in the medical field and what most people don't know is, if you are a self-pay you can bargain on everything. Just like if you were at a crapy used car lot. On the other hand if you have insurance you can't do anything about the price. Also after everything is said and done with surgery and rehab. As long as you are paying a few bucks a month they can't turn you in to collections, because you are trying to pay your bill. So if you look at it that way it may actually be cheaper to not be paying for insurance every month.
What you may want to look in to is catastrophic health ins. It is really cheap and that way if you have to stay in the hosp. for several days it would pay. It just doesn't pay for meds or therapy. Good luck and be safe.

"Irresponsible" is a little too far in my opinion. You guys are telling me, if you lost your job and had to settle for one without insurance, that you would quit riding? Maybe unsafe to an extent but it's very hard not to ride.

I wakeboard and play hockey but I wouldn't do either one without insurance. I have been to the emergency room more than once and the bills were astronomical. I had one test that took 5 minutes and the bill came to over 3K. All I paid was my copay. Insurance is a total scam. You totally get the shaft unless you do something really bad to yourself.

To me walking out your front door without insurance is crazy. You never know what idiot is going to nail you much less what you might do to yourself. A few bucks a months could save you hundreds of thousands down the line. Its better to be safe than sorry in my opinion

I wouldn't ride without insurance if I lived in the US. I did a simple HS wake2wake jump 2 days ago (which is by far something that I can do in my sleep) and blew out my knee. Doesn't matter how careful you are, you could get hit by a truck crossing the street or could wake up with cancer.

I won't let people ride behind my boat if they don't have health insurance. Yes, I do ask. A simple question that reduces my liability.

I've seen this situation play out for the worst and there's no way Id ride without some kind of coverage. My best friend (broke college student that had just bought his first boat at the time) had a guy come out who hadn't ridden in years, attempted a raley and blew his knee. He had no HI. Rumor got around that he was considering attempting to sue my friend in order to come up with the money to cover his med costs.

He also couldn't work (he was in construction) for months bc of it. I am assuming his family came out of pocket and paid the bills. Not worth it, and my buddy ended up drafting a waiver for everyone that was going to be riding behind his boat to sign (do you blame him?).

Bess I hear ya, insurance is expensive but you can get private coverage for less than a hundred bucks a month.
I blew my knee on something I've done a thousand times and could do in my sleep...my surgery and PT cost around $100K. I don't have the best coverage plan out there but I can tell you it saved my butt this time

"if you lost your job and had to settle for one without insurance, that you would quit riding?"

Yes. I've done it before actually. I would feel pretty silly spending gas money and other expences on riding also when that money could go towards insurance.

Listen to Andrea. A 100K for one of the most common injuries in our sport.

If you don't have insurance you can't wakeboard. It's pretty simple. Unless you are a millionaire. Not hard to rack up a $10k bill in an afternoon, and only slightly harder to make it $100k. Obviously if you don't have insurance you'll have to sue your buddy (whether you want to or not) assuming he has boat insurance.

A wakeboarding "license" is basically the $75/month insurance fee (it can be had for more or less but thats a good middle figure). If you don't pay it, stay away from my boat please.

Good point Joe- If you can't/don't pay your hospital bills they will go after your friend/boat driver in a heartbeat.

And I agree, from now on nobody rides our boat w/out insurance.

Obviously if you don't have insurance you'll have to sue your buddy (whether you want to or not) assuming he has boat insurance.

Isn't it the other way around? If you don't have insurance nobody can make you sue anyone. But if you have insurance then they can go after the party they hold responsible. That's why your health ins company always wants to know how the injury occurred and requires you to sign a statement to that affect.

I'd like to see where you get health insurance for $75/month. I'm self employeed and pay $800/month with $2500/person deductible for my wife, son, and self. 18 year old son is $150 of that premimum. If you tell the insurance company that you are involved in "extreme" sports (skateboard, wakeboard, ski, snowboard, BMX, motocross, etc.) they either increase the premimum or refuse to insure you.

(Message edited by mobv on July 03, 2009)

No kidding on feeling like dropping money on insurance is like throwing out the window but the WHAT IF's sure outweigh it for me. No only sports related injuries what if you found out you had Cancer or something really serious. My girlfriends mother found out she had cancer and just 1 Chemo treatment was over 15k and she had 6 not to mention the Radiation or the Surgery to remove it. I also know a guy that had one surgery for Stem Cell Transplant and that one alone was 750K so I'll take 150 a month over 750k anyday.

im sure all of you are still spending more on gas money than it would on insurance. injuries and surgeries are a common thing in wakeboarding. Andrea just posted this for my knee injury thread...



http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/655683.html?1234980637

I'm self employed and insurance costs to much! I don't have it! Most of the time i'll negotiate at the emergency room or doctors office, I even walked out of the ER one time when i found if I came back in 2 hours it would be a cheaper rate. Does it suck YES, am I going to let it stop me from wakeboarding NO!

Everybody is so damn worried about being sued nowadays, why would you hang out with friends that would do that? I was wrestling with a friend and he broke my ankle, he's a home owner has his own company, my first thought wasn't to sue it was once my ankle gets better I'm gonna take that fool down!

I guess you can live you life a couple different ways when you don't have health coverage. You can be scared to leave the house wrapping yourself in bubble wrap for fear of the world. Or you can go out there and have the absolute best time you can, forgot all your worries, and board!

Sorry Insurance people but, I'M GUNNA RIDE!

p.s. All my other non-insured brothers and sisters, your more then welcome to ride behind my boat anytime, that is one of the things boat insurance is for.

see above "Canada" that being said. Since I was fired from my last job I don't have any additional health benefits. Prescription drugs, braces, and any extra's are still coming out of my pocket. I'm seriously thinking I need to pick up some coverage since my asthma meds increased $100 w/o coverage.

hahaah i live in canada.... B*tches

"Irresposible" is a moronic statement, unless you're reffering to our government. No way I'm rearranging my life because of a pathetic health care system. Everyday life is dangerous. We're so far behind other countries regarding taking care of our citizens. You only live once.

(Message edited by wake_upppp on July 03, 2009)

In the UK you just join the British Water Ski Federation for $50 a year and they cover you for accident insurance anywhere in the world.

rossl

I would say it's irresponsible as a minimum. That's if you're single and have nobody relying on you and no assets that you're putting at risk. For a young, single guy with $200 in the bank, you're either making the rest of us pay for your hospital bills and/or bankruptcy or you're screwing over a relative or friend that feels obligated to step in and help you out.

If you have a family that relies on your for their income, then it's pretty much the most selfish thing you can do short of suicide.

I went from a "real" job where they pretty much paid for all my coverage to running WakeWorld and getting absolutely shafted on health insurance premiums. However, that was my choice and I took those crazy premiums into account before I decided to go it alone rather than looking for another "real" job with benefits. I couldn't imagine leaving my family exposed just to save a few bucks or to make a point about a "pathetic health care system."

I'll take 150 a month over 750k anyday.

I wish it was $150 a month. My family plan ins is $1500/month with my employer paying 40%. Fortunately that's pre fed/fica tax until Congress f**ks me over with their new laws.

Canada HAA. How long does it take to see a doctor let alone a specialist. My inlaws have cousins in Toronto and they came down to the States for surgery due to the wait and doctors. Most of the medical advances and Nobel prizes in medicine over the last 25 years have come from the US because we pay for it. Im not saying it to be cocky but If we followed other countries into socialized medicine the whole medical field would go backwards. Simple economics- doctors go into special fields to make more money and that experience advances the whole field. But don't worry if your in Canada your only several years behind our doctors. Although that may be the difference in saving a life or you being able to walk without a limp.

Insurance sucks but I know a friend who fell off a fence and broke his leg and it cost 20K. Its all about probability and it happening to the other guy. We are all the other guy.

And I carry heavy coverage on my boat as it only costs about 40 bucks more a year for 250K to cover someone being hurt. It is a small price to pay for the piece of mind that if a friend is hurt they can get the help they need and also I wont lose everything I have if they sued.

I know lots of people are out of work, I thankfully still have a job, but that is what the COBRA coverage is for. Nothing is free. Wait, I almost forgot about death and taxes!

None of the doctors around these parts ever won a Nobel prize. Most of them can't diagnose their way out of a paper bag. The bottom line is that rampant inflation in the medical field is going to disrupt the status quo. Something's gonna break the camel's back soon.

I find it odd that a lot of people won't pay for health insurance but have no problem having a $400+/month car/boat payment? Priorities anyone?......

Look it up. I think its like 22 of the last 25 Nobel prizes in medicine have gone to US doctors or teams that had US doctors on them. Be as mad as you want but its true. Google it!

Doctors for the most part are no smarter than you or I am in our respective job fields. If they haven't seen it they have to figure out what it is. That being said the smartest are here because the good ol' US has the money to spend on it through the universities and private sectors(drug companies).

That being said the smartest are here because the good ol' US has the money to spend on it through the universities and private sectors(drug companies).

Therein lies your answer. It has nothing to do with how medical care is funded via the Health Insurance proxy.

Why would I be mad about who wins a Nobel prize????

Ok... I think we can all agree that insurance is grossly overpriced, to the point that those making less than $100k/year get completely humped by their payments. While I understand where the money goes, the world of medicine has just gotten so completely bloated from having free money for far too long. It's completely out of control.

Remember when people didn't always have health insurance and when a medical problem arose, they could afford to deal with it without insurance? Yeah, me either... it's been decades.

Sorry John, I was not trying to start an argument. I agree with everyone who says we pay alot. My point was that we have good doctors here and I know we will all never agree on how to pay for it. Especially as now it has become a political and social issue. Insurance is important to have or it will cost you if something happens. And although I like visiting Canada I am more comfortable and confident with the care I would get here. Sorry to all the Canadians but they brought it up.

"Just to save a few bucks". So if it's only a few bucks why is it the majority of people have no insurance? If your happy with your false sense of security, I'm happy for you.

Uhh Sparky, the majority of what people have no health insurance? The number of continually uninsured(not between jobs, etc) is extremely low.........

The original post said he wanted to start trying new stuff. That is when you are going to get hurt. With no health insurance I wouldn't suggest trying big new tricks. I guess it just depends on how much of your stuff you are willing to lose if you have to pay a huge bill or declare bankruptcy. \

So many nahsayyers on this board.And 400 a month for a boat that you use often rather then 3 times that amount for something that you might never use.

The thing that sucks is.... they have made it where for a lot of people... they cant afford to either pay the doctors bill when they do get hurt.... neither can they afford the insurance.

Suckie situation

For all those wanting to point the finger at high insurance rates - don't point all your fingers at the medical professionals.
Take a good look at the insurance companies ( who have the shareholders best interests in mind) and the Hospital CEOs.
Obama should take a long hard look at what these companies and Hospital systems are banking.
Doctors are charging higher costs to recover revenue that insurance companies are refusing to pay or are paying pennies on the dollar.
I believe that the "NonProfit not for profit" Hospital status should be revoked unless they can show the public proof that they are spending millions in taking care of indigent/uninsured people.

To go along with your though Phantom...

I have also herd that medical cost is higher due to the people who go to the emergency room and don't pay. I know in some states it's against the law for them not to take you in and "fix" you. So then they bill these people.... and they simply don't pay. Therefore raising the cost..... that's just what I have herd in the past....

H2O pro - yes ER issues are another problem for higher costs - it is straight across the board, emergency care cannot be denied to someone who shows up unstable at any ER in the US.

Unfortunately Insurance is legalized gambling and for anyone who has a pre existing condition, your costs are going to be much higher.
Which I believe in Bess's situation was a previous ACL tear with reconstruction. That within itself is reason enough for an insurance company to deny coverage or deny covering that previous injured knee. Her costs for insurance is going to be higher dues to this injury. Female HI costs are higher overall because of our floatation devices & baby factory.
The only way to get full coverage after any medical issues is to be employed with a company who's insurance carrier doesn't look into previous pre existing medical conditions.
But that doesn't necessarily mean it will include your family with a history of pre existing conditions.
Also if you had insurance coverage when injured - then get lay off, take advantage of the COBRA plan.
Hopefully you will get another job that has HI, by showing you've maintained coverage, there is less likelihood of a denial for covering a pre existing condition.

Yeah Phantom, you're totally right. Acl reconstruction using a hamstring graft may 2004. I'm prolly just going to continue to play on the safe side. I've been working really hard to try and get back into shape to try to minimize any potential health problems, I've managed to lose 45 pounds this past year, from 230 to 185, still a way to go.

Unfortunately even a healthy lifestyle is no guarentee. Poop. Well, when I can finally get health insurance again I'm throwing a big party! Weeee!

I guess one point I didn't make is while I don't have conventional medical insurance like most people do I have a catastrophic medical policy that kicks in after my bills hit 10k

I'm taking a gamble that I can handle the little stuff and if something big happens, cancer etc. I have coverage.

I do feel however we should have some form of socialized medicine. Even if its basic care. When I went to the ER two years ago and was asking for qoutes on the prices of services everybody was dumb founded and it took almost an hour to get the costs. I guess the attitude most people have is the ER is the free clinic. Imagine if we had free clinics that uninsured could go to at $100 per hour versus $1000+ per hour at the emergency room we pay for through taxes?

Wouldn't this actually make health care more affordable for everyone? And those with the means can get insurance and receive an even higher level of care!

What we need is wal-mart to open some doctors offices! lol I love the pharmacy prices!

Friday i had a compound fracture of my right leg. and a 2 1/2 hour surgery. Here it is Monday almost 4am, sitting in the hospital. guarantee this will be pretty expensive.

Traktor, you consider almost 50 million "extremely low"? wow, don't sound low to me...

I don't know what you guys are talking about. I think that the health care system here in Canada is just FINE!..if not GREAT! and nearly FREE!

They are not winning awards because we would rather spend money CARING for our patients rather than doing RESEARCH (2 different things).

I've had a VERY loose ankle ligaments. Got an appointment with a specialist in less than a week and I was on the operating table a week later! Was snowboarding again 6 months later

As for my knee that I injured this week. I went into the ER, saw the doctor, had an X-ray and was reffered to a specialist which I will see today (5 days after my accident so the swelling goes down) in less than an hour.

If there's a waiting list for an MRI on the public side, I can just flash my wallet and go to a private clinic 15 minutes away and get the MRI done this week instead of in 2 months.

If I have a torn ligament in my knee, I can probably be on the operating table next week.

FREE. Well, sort of, I DO have to pay taxes.


If I were American, I think I'd pay the big $$$ for my insurance.

Sparky, do some research and stop listening to the talking heads on TV. The numbers for perpetually uninsured citizens of the US is much lower than what gets yelled out by the media. (Or just keep believing everything you see on TV)......

Blue Cross has a product called Tonik, it's good for young folks. I'm 28, and for $100/month I get 4 doctors visits a year ($25 copay), $100 emergency room visits that cover everything (this one gets used...) and a $5k deductible for major surgeries in case I bust myself good.

After watching my healthy stepdad have emergency heart surgery and spend over a quarter million dollars on that little bit of fun, I'll never go without insurance.

I used to think paying for health insurance was throwing money away... Then I broke my leg! Get health insurance! 2 nights in the hospital and 1 surgery cost upwards of $60,000 after everything was said and done. That was cheap I think my buddy Shawn said his bill was like $300,000+ for a broken femur, tibia, and patella.

Get health insurance so all the taxpayers don't pay for your wakeboarding injuries!

Doctors are charging higher costs to recover revenue that insurance companies are refusing to pay or are paying pennies on the dollar.

When I went to the ER two years ago and was asking for qoutes on the prices of services everybody was dumb founded and it took almost an hour to get the costs.

This is why we need a law that says a medical provider must charge the same amount for the same service no matter who is paying the bill. It's total crap that medical providers treat people concerned about cost of a service like "if you have to ask we don't want you as a patient". Force them to lay their rates on the table or lose your patients.

I'm going to start asking people if they have health insurance. Check your medical payment policy on your boat insurance. Most of the time it isn't very much, certainly not enough to cover a blown knee.

BoatUS:
Actual Cash Value Coverage - for boat, engine and boating equipment
Optional coverage - for trailer and sporting equipment
Medical payments - up to $5,000 per person, per occurrence
Liability payments - up to $300,000 per occurrence

"They are not winning awards because we would rather spend money CARING for our patients rather than doing RESEARCH (2 different things)."


Noel - The fact you're ignoring here is that research is what has enabled the medical field to come so far in the last X amount years. The United States happens to be the one implementing the R&D, everyone else is just reaping the benefits. So in that case consider yourself lucky (although you won't see the advances as soon as we will).

Imagine having that philosophy of using all money allocated towards the medical field in "CARING for your patients rather than doing RESEARCH" 200 years ago. You break your leg and they'd either remove it or stint it and send you home hoping for the best.

I'll take the research and latest advancement in medical technology.

Actualy Tracktor, I Googled it. Info is right of the Census Bureau... And I don't watch TV, exept sports.

Its not the uninsured breaking the insurance companies and raising premium prices, its the american lifestyle and eating habits. "Joe the Plumber" can pay for health insurance all his life but its still not going to pay for the triple bypass he has at 45 and the stroke at 50 from pounding down big macs and sucking on Marlboro reds for 30 years.

The healthy pay for the sick. Just like the young pay for the old in our broke social security system. If there are more sick then healthy, premiums go up.

I find it interesting that a large portion of those posting about going without insurance being irresponsible, are parents. Everything changes when you have a family depending on you.

I had to get knee surgery from wakeboarding but didnt have health insurance so I just signed up full time student at a community college and then got the surgery. Alot cheaper

'"Irresposible" is a moronic statement, unless you're reffering to our government. No way I'm rearranging my life because of a pathetic health care system. Everyday life is dangerous. We're so far behind other countries regarding taking care of our citizens. You only live once. "

Moronic statement? I don't think so. The funny thing is that you want the government to take care of health care, yet it seems like you don't think that you would have to pay for it if that were the case. Uhhhh that is totally wrong. You would pay for it alright, it would come right out of every one of your paychecks.

The more I think about this the more I realize how irresponsible it is. You don't just screw yourself if you don't have insurance. You really can hinder your family. Also, you really screw the hospital if you can't make the payments. Most people do not care about that, but really, the hospital is fixing you, and you are not paying for it. People declare bankrupcy and walk away from all the debt. You know who gets screwed then??? Everyone else who actually pays their hospital bills, because they need to make up those payments someone else couldn't make so they jack the prices of procedures up even higher. You know what happens when the price of procedures goes up....health insurance goes up.

Don't kid yourself, if you don't have insurance and you choose to participate in wakeboarding...YOU are totally SELFISH and only thinking about YOURSELF. If you are ok with that, and possibly screwing your family and friends, well that is a decision that you have to live with.

This is all said with the assumption that someone who doesn't have insurance isn't sitting on a boatload of cash and could just pay for any procedure that they needed.

Rick, I suppose you think the other systems like social security and medi-care are doing just fine too huh? It's pathetic how our government handles our money, period. Like someone else said, our insurance system is legalized gambling in a sense. I'll take my chances for now and make payments if I have to just like I have in the past when I incure medical bills. I would be more than willing to pay my share for a "universal", reasonable health care system like other countries have, but that is not a priority in this country, and that's the pathetic part. Call me selfish if you want, I couldn't care less, I'm living my life, declaration page or not.

Sparky,

I am pro less government in regards to most things, but I do believe that health care for all should be a right. Having said that, we don't live in a country where that takes place. My response to your post was in regards to the way you expect that you should get health care without having to pay for it, similar to the way Canada does it. If you took a look at that type of system, what happens is you really do pay for it...through much higher taxes.

Our current system actually benefits you. With no health insurance, you can break your leg, go to the ER, have it fixed, and when the $100k bill comes...you don't have to pay it. You can file for bankrupcy and other than screwing up your credit...it doesn't cost you anything...you just pass the buck to the other hospital bill paying patients.

As far as calling insurance legalized gambling...that is crazy. You have to protect yourself, and to relate it to gambling is stupid. Think about it, some people ruin their lives because they gamble way too much, but with insurance, some people ruin their lives cuz the don't have insurance...or like you insist...they don't gamble. That doesn't make any sense.

And that is where we get to the issue of being selfish. Let me quote you "Call me selfish if you want, I couldn't care less, I'm living my life, declaration page or not." I could not think of a more selfish statement to make.

I don't know, why should you care? If you fail to make your hospital payments you are only screwing the hospital, and all its paying clients, but who cares about them. I guess this country, privately owned hospitals, and people who pay their hospital bills owe you a living and free health care.

In fact it is really stupid when health care isn't that expensive, at least for the majority of the people in this country.

I have done some consulting with 2 hospitals in the area of process and quality improvement. Both collect less than 50% of the dollars they invoice patients or insurance companies.

Medicare is reimbursing less now for procedures than they did in 1980.

A Doctor friend pays over $100,000/year for malpractice insurance and has never lost a "serious" case. He does alot of joint replacements, the medicare reimbursement is less than the cost of his insurance per patient. He says if everyting converts to a "public" insurance system he will quit medicine and start another career.

Rick, you're young and naive. Where did I say I wanted/expected it for free? You really should read carefully before typing...

after reading some of the things you guys say I would never had you behind my boat, Sue your buddy WOW get real

By Sparky Jay (wake_upppp) on Friday, July 03, 2009 - 8:56 am: Edit Post Delete Post
"Irresposible" is a moronic statement, unless you're reffering to our government. No way I'm rearranging my life because of a pathetic health care system. Everyday life is dangerous. We're so far behind other countries regarding taking care of our citizens. You only live once."

What other countries are you talking about? What countries' health care systems are we so far behind? Ones similar to where you walk in and get free health care?

Maybe I jumped the gun and assumed that you wanted a free health care system...please show me that I am wrong, I do hope that you aren't looking for a free hand out in regards to health care.

Oh and sparky, please tell me where I am naive...I don't want to jump to conclusions about what you might be talking about.

Here's what gets me on insurance and health care, I was a 24 year old seasonal worker/full time student, since I had knee surgery at age 20 my insurance was 150 a month with a 2500 deductible because I was "high risk" due to my previous injury, after 23 I was off my folks insurance. If I didn't have insurance and broke my wrist bam 75K bill in my lap.

If I were a 24 year old homeless heroin addict and got too effed up and fell down and got hurt I could waltz in to any ER or even call 911 to get a ride and get care regardless.

That in my opinion is wrong, somebody doing the right thing trying to get an education and job has way more liability following them around than a dirtbag who has decided to say eff responsibility and have the taxpayers take care of it.
I'm not for denying care to anyone, its an ethical argument, but if we are all to be treated fairly here why can those with good ol MediCal for free not get the medical bills and the rest of us who pay out the A$$ for insurance do? Insurance is a scam in my opinion, and I feel the lack of insurance companies to pay out has led to the over the top charges and fees you recieve at hospitals and the MD's office, especially in emergency situations. All I have to say is I am happy that my wife and I have good jobs, and when I did break my wrist and the bill was 75K, we only shelled out about $1200, I bet the homeless dude wouldn't have had a 1200 bill on his head for that same deal though.