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View Poll Results: Which boat (with max ballast) throws the closest wake to a stock nautique G series?
+2015 Axis A22 7 41.18%
+2007 Xstar LY6 4 23.53%
+2012 Malibu MXZ 22 3 17.65%
Other (please specify in thread) 3 17.65%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-08-2018, 7:55 AM Reply   
Hi guys,

This is my first post, so go easy on me.

I have read countless of posts, getting mixed information so I decided to start one, hopefully with the ultimate info on getting the best wake possible for 50k or less. (helping anyone in my situation in having a one stop post with all info, as well).

A bit of background, I currently own a 98 Super Sport Nautique, which I wakeboard behind with around 3.200 lbs in ballast, plus 2 people. I am 32 years old and am an intermediatte/advanced rider, with a few mobes, 5s and a hs 7. I ride 5 times a week and am on the national wakeboard team of my country (I live in South America). Gas here is around 4 dollars per gallon.

So let's dive right in:

- old 210 nautique is fine, but as a serious rider I sense boats and wakes have drifted away from the short transition/abrupt pop, style of wake.

- Ideally I want to get a G21, but have a max budget of 50k (which I then have to import, ending with a final price of around 90k after paying freight and import tariffs ).

- I mainly care about wake size/type, mechanical reliance and fuel consumption. Boat candidates are:

1.) Used 2012 Malibu MXZ 22 with 409 engine.
2.) Used 2007 Mastercraft X-star with LY6 engine.

I discarded both Axis A22 and Nautique 230, since the wake does not seem to be all that better than the 210, from what I have read.

Am leaning towards MXZ since it seems to have better fuel consumption, and less mechanical issues than the X-Star. I know getting a 2012 for 50k is currently a strech, but I am in no rush and would be searching for one as the year progresses.

Hope to get everyone's input, and make a wise decision with this future purchase. thanks

Last edited by JoseCastillo; 01-08-2018 at 7:58 AM. Reason: grammar
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-08-2018, 10:07 AM Reply   
an a22 will get G sized with the correct weighting. It is also a better shape (more lip with less weight) than the OG x star, but if you are ballin' on a budget there are OG Star deals to be had because they don't surf.

The current A22 hull is better than the older mxz hull.

Skip a 230 and get an A22 or 07 xstar
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-08-2018, 10:16 AM Reply   
The current A22 hull is better than the older mxz hull.

Agreed. I owned both. The A22 with the small motor produced a better wake than the MXZ with the LS3.
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-08-2018, 10:25 AM Reply   
Great input!

What year is considered current, for the A22? I think this hull came out in 2010

Thanks
Old     (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-08-2018, 10:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by josecastillo View Post
great input!

What year is considered current, for the a22? I think this hull came out in 2010

thanks
2015+
Old     (TC_Mastercraf_X5)      Join Date: Feb 2013       01-08-2018, 11:27 AM Reply   
That said the 2015+ A22s have had some wicked bow rise compared to the 2012-2014 boats
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-08-2018, 11:41 AM Reply   
I had 3 MXZs, and two A22s (15 and 16) The bow rise was no more than any other boat I experienced. I'm assuming we're talking about wakeboarding. The A22 likes a lot of bow weight and I'd say that helps.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-08-2018, 12:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
I had 3 MXZs, and two A22s (15 and 16) The bow rise was no more than any other boat I experienced. I'm assuming we're talking about wakeboarding. The A22 likes a lot of bow weight and I'd say that helps.
I don't understand the complaint either-
When the wedge kicks in planing off you get a blindspot for about 3 seconds if you're loaded to the gills but like, if you have any spacial awareness at all this should not bother anyone
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-08-2018, 1:26 PM Reply   
I don't mind a bit of bow rise (i have a 210 after all), i do mind however swaping boats for something significantly better wake wise.

Also, how can I change this post to the "boats" category which i just noticed exists. Thnks

Last edited by JoseCastillo; 01-08-2018 at 1:34 PM.
Old     (lucas200397)      Join Date: Aug 2013       01-08-2018, 2:36 PM Reply   
2013 MB TOMCAT F21 with 4000#'s 24 mph, 75' rope rider is 5'10" - 5'11" for sale 50K about to roll 200 hrs only selling to upgrade to the F24
Attached Images
 
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-08-2018, 5:54 PM Reply   
Hi Lucas. Wake looks awesome.

Since I can't demo boats however, i'll probably stick with these 3: nautiques, mastercrafts and malibus

Good luck with your sale!
Old     (lucas200397)      Join Date: Aug 2013       01-08-2018, 6:38 PM Reply   
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-09-2018, 6:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
an a22 will get G sized with the correct weighting. It is also a better shape (more lip with less weight) than the OG x star, but if you are ballin' on a budget there are OG Star deals to be had because they don't surf.

The current A22 hull is better than the older mxz hull.

Skip a 230 and get an A22 or 07 xstar
How does fuel consumption compare between a new A22 and an OG xstar?

I found deals like this one for the x-star
https://www.onlyinboards.com/2007-Ma...ana-62628.aspx

whereas, i can't seem to find a 2015 A22 for 50k or less
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       01-09-2018, 6:37 AM Reply   
A 2012 22 MXZ will put out a bangin wake. I wouldn't hesitate on that one. As others said though, the 15+ A22 is also a great boat and might be more easily found in your price range.

Last edited by boardjnky4; 01-09-2018 at 6:40 AM.
Old     (on_wi)      Join Date: Feb 2013       01-09-2018, 7:25 AM Reply   
I like to peruse OIB frequently. I don't think a 2015+ Axis A22 is in the 50 or less bucket. At least not what I've seen online.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-09-2018, 9:00 AM Reply   
You might be able to get a 14 t22- which should be in that range and has a strikingly similar wake.
Old     (Xbigpun66)      Join Date: Aug 2016       01-09-2018, 7:54 PM Reply   
My 2004 210 I used to have had a huge steep wake with 5k ballast. It was scary big.
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-10-2018, 6:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbigpun66 View Post
My 2004 210 I used to have had a huge steep wake with 5k ballast. It was scary big.
How do you manage to fit 5k of ballast inside a 210?

Max ballast I have managed to fit is 2x750lbs in the back. 450lbs in storage locker and 750 on top, and 1000lbs triangle in the bow. With 2 people and some gear, I reckon a total of 4.000 lbs.

The wake was rather steep, and I had to ride with a 77ft rope and at 23.5mph!
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-10-2018, 11:21 AM Reply   
What about a supra SA

I heard with enough weight they can put out some thing close to what a G23 puts out.

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2014-Su...sas-72392.aspx
Old     (Xbigpun66)      Join Date: Aug 2016       01-10-2018, 8:15 PM Reply   
We has 1100 bag in each rear locker (tanks removed). Factory 650 belly tank. 1100 bag under front seats. And some lead.
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-11-2018, 7:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonblarc7 View Post
What about a supra SA

I heard with enough weight they can put out some thing close to what a G23 puts out.

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2014-Su...sas-72392.aspx
I think as far as Supra goes, if wanting to compete with a Gseries boat, one would have to look at
SA's with 450 or 550 engines, outside our 50k budget. But good tip on the 350! that one looks like a killer boat at an awesome price!
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-11-2018, 7:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbigpun66 View Post
We has 1100 bag in each rear locker (tanks removed). Factory 650 belly tank. 1100 bag under front seats. And some lead.
That setup would definitely make for a very steep wake.

With the 210, what I usually do is try to keep the boat balanced, 2x600 in the back, 1.000lbs in the middle (between locker and fat sac on top) and 1000lb triangle at the bow. Around 3.200 lbs plus people and gear, riding at 23mph with a 75ft rope, makes for a clean, rideable wake, with just enough steepness without being unmanageable and too punishing on the body!
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       01-11-2018, 9:00 AM Reply   
FWIW, I would say that I also think a 15+ A22 has a wake that is more similar in shape to a G23. It's steeper and more firm than a gen1 22 MXZ.
Old     (aricsx15)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-11-2018, 2:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonblarc7 View Post
What about a supra SA

I heard with enough weight they can put out some thing close to what a G23 puts out.

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2014-Su...sas-72392.aspx
Holy crap, thatís some depreciation
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-12-2018, 9:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by aricsx15 View Post
Holy crap, thatís some depreciation
Sure is.
Old     (Surfer101)      Join Date: Oct 2015       01-12-2018, 10:12 PM Reply   
That Supra would definitely be my choice as well. Great price and great boat, especially with wakeboarding in mind.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-20-2018, 10:29 PM Reply   
You picked a boat yet?
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-24-2018, 8:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
You picked a boat yet?
From what I gathered from everyone's input, I will be looking for an used Axis A22 +2015, throughout 2018 (and maybe even 2019) for 50k, ideally near Florida.

Thanks everyone!
Old     (on_wi)      Join Date: Feb 2013       01-25-2018, 7:35 AM Reply   
The cheapest 2015 A22 on OIB is 59.9. I'd love to hear if searching locally via craigslist and the like would get you results more in line with your 50k or less range.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-25-2018, 11:19 AM Reply   
First glance in NC for +2015

2016 for 68,500, doesn't mean you can't make an offer. And don't be afraid to drive a few hours to get the right boat. Both of my boats where 6 hours each way.


https://raleigh.craigslist.org/boa/d...465618195.html
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-26-2018, 6:09 AM Reply   
I have actually seen (attached) a craigslist post for a 2015 A22, for 53k. So finding one for 50k throughout 2018 and even 2019, should be doable. Also, I am in no hurry so that is a plus as well!
Attached Images
 
Old     (Reddog78)      Join Date: Mar 2017       01-28-2018, 10:40 AM Reply   
This has to be a joke. Lol ole boy can’t find a 2015 in his range but is talking about a 2018 if he’s patient. Jose you’re right if you’re patient in like 5-7 years you’ll be able to get that 2018 for 50k. Time is on your side brother!
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-28-2018, 3:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddog78 View Post
This has to be a joke. Lol ole boy canít find a 2015 in his range but is talking about a 2018 if heís patient. Jose youíre right if youíre patient in like 5-7 years youíll be able to get that 2018 for 50k. Time is on your side brother!
That's not what he said. Read it again.
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       01-28-2018, 5:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddog78 View Post
This has to be a joke. Lol ole boy canít find a 2015 in his range but is talking about a 2018 if heís patient. Jose youíre right if youíre patient in like 5-7 years youíll be able to get that 2018 for 50k. Time is on your side brother!
Yikes, I guess someone is having an off day.

Although English is not my first language, I think it was pretty clear that I will be looking for an 2015 Axis during this and, maybe even, next year
Old     (infinitysurf)      Join Date: Apr 2017       02-03-2018, 9:12 AM Reply   
You can also add lead bags to any boat to add more weight in a small amount of space. Leadwake.com .... Wakeballast.com.....POP bags, etc.
Just a thot to max out your current wave if your engine can push it, tho I know shipping would be expensive. You could also make your own by melting down lead tire weights or even put weight lifting weights in boat under your ballast sacks. I have 4400lbs of hidden water ballast on my boat plus 500lbs of lead. Nice thing about the lead is you can move it around to tweak the wave as needed, most of mine goes in bow to add length to surf wave
Old     (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-10-2018, 10:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
an a22 will get G sized with the correct weighting. It is also a better shape (more lip with less weight) than the OG x star, but if you are ballin' on a budget there are OG Star deals to be had because they don't surf.

The current A22 hull is better than the older mxz hull.

Skip a 230 and get an A22 or 07 xstar
Ive ridden a lot of boats and i can tell you this much an Xstar wake is so different from a G, much wider less steep etc..they can be big but no way they look or feel like aG wake..I haven't been on an Axis yet but many Malibus of all years and hulls so i know a weighted correctly Malibu VLX/LSV with the wedge, especially the adjustable wedge Vs the Manual will in fact get peaked up at the lip and still not get too wide or curl over.. not sure about the MXZ we are talking Wakeboarding wake correct>?
Old     (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-10-2018, 10:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucas200397 View Post
2013 MB TOMCAT F21 with 4000#'s 24 mph, 75' rope rider is 5'10" - 5'11" for sale 50K about to roll 200 hrs only selling to upgrade to the F24
I have been on an 2014 F22 Tomacat and i do really luv that wake..boats nice and like the Axis keeps things basic and affordable..
Old     (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       02-10-2018, 10:43 AM Reply   
I'm kind of surprised to read that a 230 doesn't make a bigger wake than a 210... Thought it to be at least comparable to the 07 X-Star mentioned. Thoughts?
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-10-2018, 1:05 PM Reply   
yeah, no. the 230 wake weighted is bigger than the 210 wake weighted. since 230 is a bigger boat, it does take adding a lot of weight, but it can be massive.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-10-2018, 2:34 PM Reply   
Like Scott said. The 230 can throw a bigger/better wake than a 210. Due to the weight and much more space for ballast bag.
Well weighted a 230 can throw a massive wave. I have a 210 and a neighbor have an older 230 (2014). Ride few times with them and give him some advise placing ballast. Man 210/230 are so much underrated lol. Really don’t know why.

Im more wakesurfing now but used to do a lot of wakeboard.
not a big fan of Malibu/Axis boats since they are’nt monohull.. (and few other things but it’s just a personal opinion).
Stress cracks are kind of major issue of Axis. Too much weighted can be a disaster!
BUT I have to admit the A22 is definitely my wakeboard top 1 machine. If I was 100% wakeboard.

Last edited by Mike88; 02-10-2018 at 2:36 PM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       02-10-2018, 9:10 PM Reply   
That's what I figured. OP discarded 230 as an option from the beginning though. It's exactly the boat I'd be looking at (I have a 210 now) if I'd be spending 50K.
Old     (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-12-2018, 10:34 AM Reply   
in the 50k range maybe a 2009-2010 Malibu 23 Lsv..pretty sick all around wake
Old     (JoseCastillo)      Join Date: Feb 2017       02-19-2018, 2:34 AM Reply   
Hi guys,

First off, yes, we are talking wakeboard wakes, clarifying Bill Montanye's question.

So, about wakeboard wakes, I basically took infinitysurf's advice and added 800lbs or so to my current setup (added about 300 lbs below the playpen's style bow, and upgraded the middle exterior fat sac, for one of those big 1100lbs).

So, I am now riding with around 4.000 lbs to train for competition passes, and then do another pass to train on basics and new stuff with about half that ballast. (basically ride two 20 minutes passes, each time out).

As far as the 230 goes, the only reason I did not want to consider it as a replacement for the current old gen 210 I have, is that it throws a similar wake (a bit bigger, with a longer transition), making it hard to justify spending (more than) twice as much as what I did on my 210, for a somewhat better wake.

To take the plunge on swaping boats, the wake would have to be considerably better (hence the G consideration, at the beginning title of this thread).

thanks to all for the great comments!
Oh, regarding comments, in about a month, I have a competition on a Centurion Ri237, what do you guys know about that wake? Thanks!

Last edited by JoseCastillo; 02-19-2018 at 2:40 AM. Reason: grammar
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       02-19-2018, 11:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseCastillo View Post
Hi guys,

First off, yes, we are talking wakeboard wakes, clarifying Bill Montanye's question.

So, about wakeboard wakes, I basically took infinitysurf's advice and added 800lbs or so to my current setup (added about 300 lbs below the playpen's style bow, and upgraded the middle exterior fat sac, for one of those big 1100lbs).

So, I am now riding with around 4.000 lbs to train for competition passes, and then do another pass to train on basics and new stuff with about half that ballast. (basically ride two 20 minutes passes, each time out).

As far as the 230 goes, the only reason I did not want to consider it as a replacement for the current old gen 210 I have, is that it throws a similar wake (a bit bigger, with a longer transition), making it hard to justify spending (more than) twice as much as what I did on my 210, for a somewhat better wake.

To take the plunge on swaping boats, the wake would have to be considerably better (hence the G consideration, at the beginning title of this thread).

thanks to all for the great comments!
Oh, regarding comments, in about a month, I have a competition on a Centurion Ri237, what do you guys know about that wake? Thanks!
I have a Super Sport, which I've ridden with about 2500#.

I rode a G23 and it was a huge difference,so I get where OP is coming from.

I just upgraded to a 230 but haven't ridden behind it so not sure what the difference is but as far as I understand the 230 is more of a step up from the OG 210 while the G23 was a leap in terms if wakes.
Old     (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2018, 3:47 PM Reply   
I have not been on an A24 but hear that weighted heavily it is the equivalent of the G23 in size and similar in shape. Why has nobody mentioned it? I hesitate on the A24 because I feel it will depreciate faster in overall value faster and and don't really like the look of it. I do also agree that an older 23LSV or even VLX loaded to the gills can come close for a lot less money.
Thoughts?

I started a similar thread awhile back and only care about the wakeboard wake. I am out for this buying season (due to slow pay insurance companies ) but I am going to very likely be buying next fall/winter and have decided that anything over $75K is just ridiculous and I refuse to pay it even if I can technically afford it.

So my budget is $75K and am in the same situation as Jose in that I want the best possible wakeboarding wake for the money. I am zeroing in on a 2015+ 23LSV with PW2 by next fall to hit my price point. I would consider a G21 if it fits in my price range by then. I am still definitely open to suggestions though.
Old     (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-03-2018, 5:43 PM Reply   
2011 210 below should give you a little more transition than your old 210 that you’re used to and more steep half pipe than the Malibu/Axis
http://www.shoppok.com/macon/a,29,12...ce=clazoutfeed

Last edited by rexlex01; 04-03-2018 at 5:45 PM.
Old     (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-03-2018, 6:08 PM Reply   
Another 210 SANTE

https://www.planetnautique.com/vb5/f...-located-in-mt
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       04-03-2018, 6:46 PM Reply   
100% wakeboarding
I’ll say 23 lsv or Axis T23 would be my no1 choice.
I’m not a fan of bu’s non monohull design but definitely a fan of their older wakeboard wake.
Axis will be newer for the same price but since you don’t like them a wakesetter is a great choice.
For depreciation, it’s kind of the same because yes the wakesetter loose a little less but it will be older.P

Like I said earlier, Nautique 230 can be a really great choice too. If you only wakeboard some 2013 comes without Nss I think so they can easily fit In Your budget.
Just changing few fatsac and the wake is lovely (personal opinion)
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       04-03-2018, 7:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene3x View Post
I have not been on an A24 but hear that weighted heavily it is the equivalent of the G23 in size and similar in shape. Why has nobody mentioned it? I hesitate on the A24 because I feel it will depreciate faster in overall value faster and and don't really like the look of it. I do also agree that an older 23LSV or even VLX loaded to the gills can come close for a lot less money.
Thoughts?

I started a similar thread awhile back and only care about the wakeboard wake. I am out for this buying season (due to slow pay insurance companies ) but I am going to very likely be buying next fall/winter and have decided that anything over $75K is just ridiculous and I refuse to pay it even if I can technically afford it.

So my budget is $75K and am in the same situation as Jose in that I want the best possible wakeboarding wake for the money. I am zeroing in on a 2015+ 23LSV with PW2 by next fall to hit my price point. I would consider a G21 if it fits in my price range by then. I am still definitely open to suggestions though.
Skip the g21 and jump on either of those.

Or the older pickled star and put the money in your pocket
Old     (StuartC80)      Join Date: Apr 2014       04-03-2018, 9:06 PM Reply   
Are you guys that are suggesting 2015+ Axisís out of touch with the market or are they really priced that low in your area? I donít mean to offend anyone, but the prices seem to be holding above $50-55k on anything with surfgate, which is 2014+.
Old     (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-03-2018, 9:40 PM Reply   
Suggest the OP demo an Axis and see if he just loves the rampy kicker vs the half pipe of a Nautique being a serious advanced rider.
Demo demo
Old     (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-04-2018, 6:12 AM Reply   
So still no comments about the A24. Has the hull changed on them at all? Disadvantages? Assuming you need a larger engine to get them good.
Is the T23 similar to the 23 LSV in wake shape? It sounds like it might be as many people say it has a longer transition and more weight turns it vertical.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       04-04-2018, 11:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene3x View Post
So still no comments about the A24. Has the hull changed on them at all? Disadvantages? Assuming you need a larger engine to get them good.
Is the T23 similar to the 23 LSV in wake shape? It sounds like it might be as many people say it has a longer transition and more weight turns it vertical.
The traditional bow Malibu's and axis have more of a rampy wider wake than their pickle fork counter parts. The difference is slight.

Weight them heavier in the mid-ship and rear and it will get steeper.

A24 hull changed this year. They also all have pw this year. Basically the new A22 and A24 are substantially similar to the new 22 mxz and 24 mxz. T22=22vlx etc

Last edited by simplej; 04-04-2018 at 11:59 AM.
Old     (laptom)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-05-2018, 12:54 PM Reply   
I would not take the 230 out of the equation. It is a great boat with a more modern wake than the og210. Been riding behind ogXstar, VLX and 210, 220. I would say the 230 is the closest to the G of these. Never riden a A22 or LSV though...

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