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Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-02-2020, 6:16 AM Reply   
Oh look! We just may have a new oversight committee with powers to subpoena Trump! Bring on the TDS! Coup attempt 4.0 on the horizon.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pel...subpoena-power
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       04-02-2020, 6:29 AM Reply   
So you guys do realize that those very humbling death numbers that the President reported earlier this week (100-240,000 Americans) are (a) 2-5x the death rate of the flu and (b) based on the assumption that social distancing measures stay in place through end of May.

We've flown the economy into the side of the mountain to get numbers that "good."
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 6:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
I know. You should give delta the news. He thinks the US response is similar to N.Korea. He thinks Kemp in Georgia was smart to delay "Stay at Home".
He thinks "its just like the flu". "Testing doesnt do crap" "The Gov't can only take rights away from you, its all they can do"
Sure seems like all the things he is saying are 100% wrong. Again.
No. I believe the korea testing did not do crap. 4th grade math makes you angry. how is testing 0.5% of the population change anything compared to testing 0.1% of the population? Does that change the response? Yes or No? I will answer this for you. No. the answer is NO.

Is there a cure? No. Not even a yes or no. Simply NO.

What is the treatment? It is just like the flu. While people have had flu shots thus less people will actually get the virus and not be able to fight it off, the treatment is the same. In this case they just want to flatten the curve so the hospitals are not overwhelmed. Notice the requirement is to FLATTEN THE CURVE, not cure. Not that you are not going to get it. Newsom believes that 56% of the people will get it. that is over 1 in 2. He also has implemented the stay at home policy and still believes the 56% number even with the stay at home.

you numbers of deaths compared to infection rate puts it right there with the flu. Don't bitch at me. You are the one supplying the numbers. I just added them up for you. sorry it does not add up to your propaganda.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 6:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So you guys do realize that those very humbling death numbers that the President reported earlier this week (100-240,000 Americans) are (a) 2-5x the death rate of the flu and (b) based on the assumption that social distancing measures stay in place through end of May.

We've flown the economy into the side of the mountain to get numbers that "good."
No it is not. It is the same as the flu if the 56% infection rate and those numbers of deaths that you are quoting are not even that high. People just don't get the flu because of flu shots and possibly ummunity. If you get the virus, just like the flu, you appear to have the same. Now if we are talking pure death numbers, sure there will be more dead from the corona virus than the flu because of the flu shot. It looks based on discussion points, the number of infected vs dead seems to track with the flu. Do with that information what you want.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-02-2020, 6:36 AM Reply   
Im good man. Im on solid footing. Fact based.
What do you think Of Gov. Kemp? DeSantis? the latest Good Christian Pasture paddie fleecing the flock in the middle of a pandemic? How much blood on their hands?
What are you going to come back with when their deaths skyrocket due to their ineptitude? Look at YOUR chart. Does it line up with deltas opinion?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       04-02-2020, 6:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
No it is not. It is the same as the flu if the 56% infection rate and those numbers of deaths that you are quoting are not even that high. People just don't get the flu because of flu shots and possibly ummunity. If you get the virus, just like the flu, you appear to have the same. Now if we are talking pure death numbers, sure there will be more dead from the corona virus than the flu because of the flu shot. It looks based on discussion points, the number of infected vs dead seems to track with the flu. Do with that information what you want.
when was the last time we closed the United States for 2.5 months in response to the flu?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-02-2020, 6:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So you guys do realize that those very humbling death numbers that the President reported earlier this week (100-240,000 Americans) are (a) 2-5x the death rate of the flu and (b) based on the assumption that social distancing measures stay in place through end of May.

We've flown the economy into the side of the mountain to get numbers that "good."
Quote:
No it is not. It is the same as the flu

Clearly the answer is no. They will most likely continue on the path until "it" hits closer to home.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 6:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Im good man. Im on solid footing. Fact based.
What do you think Of Gov. Kemp? DeSantis? the latest Good Christian Pasture paddie fleecing the flock in the middle of a pandemic? How much blood on their hands?
What are you going to come back with when their deaths skyrocket due to their ineptitude? Look at YOUR chart. Does it line up with deltas opinion?
I don't know what to think of those people. They don't have death on their hands. Not a single person has ever said that someone is not going to get this. This whole logical fallacy that people are going to die at a higher rate is false and true potential at the same time. If is false in that the death rate is that of the flu. It may be true if people who may get sicker than with just the flu but could get basic treatments for pnemonia symptoms but can not due to over crowding. There is nothing out there about you not getting it. It is about over crowding hospitals. The true is in between. If you live in a sparce crowded area with resources then you may not have an issue. Dense area with high infection rate, then you could have issues. You don't know and I don't know. The feds don't know either.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-02-2020, 6:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
oh look! We just may have a new oversight committee with powers to subpoena trump! Bring on the tds! Coup attempt 4.0 on the horizon.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pel...subpoena-power
lol
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Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 7:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
when was the last time we closed the United States for 2.5 months in response to the flu?
When was the last time a virus hit that did not have a cure or a preventative shot for it? According to all the numbers and projections of those who actually get the virus and symptomatic and die, it looks to be same number as those are symptomatic with the flu. In this case, you have no shots, no cure so there are going to be more symptomatic people and if the hospitals are over crowded, then more marginal people will die where in cases with the flu they have the resources. My son in law almost died from valley fever a couple months ago. He is in his mid 20's and in the last part of the police academy when he got pnemonia from it. He was near turning septic when they finally convince kaiser he was having serious issues. They said if he waited over night he would not have recovered. That would be an example of what started as a marginal case getting out of control due to lack of resources. If he simply would have been allowed to come in for basic treatment (or took time earlier) he would have been just fine. that is the same concept as flatten the curve for resource mitigation. It has nothing to do with stopping infection unless you think Trump was lying about hot weather stopping the virus.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-02-2020, 7:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
If it is only 80,000 to 150,000 then that does not jive with what people like you are saying and bitching about. Considering your governors contention that we will infect 56% of the population will get it. That is about 180 million people. If 1% die as you guys contend, then that is 1.8 million dead. So, well well well. look at this. Here you are to bludgen us with this article that says up to a high of 150,000 dead and want to act like it is a big deal. if we do the very simple math that would imply that the high in your article coupled with dear leader Newsom's contention of 56% infected (which may not be unreasonable considering), that would leave us at a grand total of 0.08% fatality rate.
Yes but 150,000 is with mitigation without mitigation is 2.2 million. As per dear leaders chart he is standing in front of. What say you now maths genius?
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Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 7:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
when was the last time we closed the United States for 2.5 months in response to the flu?
So do you think there may be a point that bankrupting a very high percent of Americans was worth the shutting down of America? At what point would the dire economic situations kill more people than the virus?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-02-2020, 7:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Yes but 150,000 is with mitigation without mitigation is 2.2 million. As per dear leaders chart he is standing in front of. What say you now maths genius?
You are arguing with a guy who's worldview is formed around anecdotal evidence weened from friends and family (and probably Alex Jones though he won't admit it). He had a son in law that got pneumonia, so now he's an infectious disease expert.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-02-2020, 7:12 AM Reply   
LOL^^^
Quote:
If you live in a sparce crowded area with resources then you may not have an issue. Dense area with high infection rate, then you could have issues. You don't know and I don't know. The feds don't know either.
I think "we" know. You dont want to look at marks site, or you would know. We know social distance is the BEST tool we have. We know Florida, Georgia, Miss. are free to mingle until Friday at midnight. Several other states still have no "Stay at home" mandates (please google them im curious how many are led by libtards). We know they WILL pay a higher price due to late response. Because, facts.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 7:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Yes but 150,000 is with mitigation without mitigation is 2.2 million. As per dear leaders chart he is standing in front of. What say you now maths genius?
To me that is saying that the 2.2 million is based on resource limitations and not by the virus. During the flu, we have the resources to deal with those that are sick. We have the resources because we have flu shots and possibly during some years immunity due to having the strain before. During this virus, there can be more symptomatic and of course there will be a much greater percent of those that are not that sick that rush in and clog up the system due to fear. You notice the mitigation does not say that there will be less infected and symptomatic. Just less will die. that is a resources based projection. The math still stands. Of those that actively have the virus, they will die at the same rate as the flu (resources being the same).

You know of this guy named Jim Henson. You may have seen some of his work. He did of Streptococcus pneumoniae, an infection that causes bacterial pneumonia. It is a quick acting version however if he would have made it into the doctor a day earlier, he more than likely would have survived. that is the same type of thing with this. If you have the resource (and use it), you will more than likely survive and survive at the same rate as the flu based on what we are discussing with our numbers in this forum.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 7:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
LOL^^^


I think "we" know. You dont want to look at marks site, or you would know. We know social distance is the BEST tool we have. We know Florida, Georgia, Miss. are free to mingle until Friday at midnight. Several other states still have no "Stay at home" mandates (please google them im curious how many are led by libtards). We know they WILL pay a higher price due to late response. Because, facts.
You don't know that at all. YOUR FACTS not reality. Again spacing does not keep you from getting it. It just SLOWS the spread. You and yours are going to get it. It can all be a sharp curve or a slow curve of the population getting it. There has not been a single expert that says you are not going to get it. They are say the same thing. Flatten the curve. If you have the resources, then you can handle a much steeper curve. So you don't have any idea what those states will look like.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 7:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
You are arguing with a guy who's worldview is formed around anecdotal evidence weened from friends and family (and probably Alex Jones though he won't admit it). He had a son in law that got pneumonia, so now he's an infectious disease expert.
Hey John. Can you point to any expert that says you will not get the virus over time? I would like to see the article.

That being the case, why would the rate in which people get the virus change the death projections?

Why are emergency people crying for resources?

The lower death projections memic those of the flu death rates for active infection. Only difference between big numbers and bigger numbers is resources.

Flatten the curve based on your resources.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-02-2020, 7:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Hey John. Can you point to any expert that says you will not get the virus over time? I would like to see the article.

That being the case, why would the rate in which people get the virus change the death projections?
No expert is going to tell you that you won't get the disease and no expert will tell you that you will get the disease. I have no idea why you even posed a question with such an obvious answer. But then the next question kind of answers that.

Apparently you have zero knowledge of what's going on because it's been reported ad infinitum the reason why you want to slow the rate that people get the disease. And it has everything to do with death predictions.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 7:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
No expert is going to tell you that you won't get the disease and no expert will tell you that you will get the disease. I have no idea why you even posed a question with such an obvious answer. But then the next question kind of answers that.

Apparently you have zero knowledge of what's going on because it's been reported ad infinitum the reason why you want to slow the rate that people get the disease. And it has everything to do with death predictions.
Wow that was deep dude.

And why would the rate in which someone or a population gets a disease change whether an individual will live or die? Is your body better prepared if you get it in 3 weeks vs if you get it tomorrow? I was not aware of that type of human condition if that is the case. Assume that is not the case with the human ability to fight illness, then what is the next logical conclusion.

I would love to hear you answer. actually I don't care. You can live with propaganda if you want but we know what the answer is.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-02-2020, 7:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
And why would the rate in which someone or a population gets a disease change whether an individual will live or die? Is your body better prepared if you get it in 3 weeks vs if you get it tomorrow? I was not aware of that type of human condition if that is the case. Assume that is not the case with the human ability to fight illness, then what is the next logical conclusion.
The body's ability to combat the illness doesn't change but societies does. Therapies are developed and if the curve is flattened then health system capacity copes so you can be ventilated if required rather than not if the health system is overrun. If makes a massive difference if you get 150m people infected over 3 months or 1 year.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-02-2020, 8:03 AM Reply   
So to segway to how a viruses impact is quantified there are two descriptors that scientists and health practictioners use. R0 & death rate.
R0 is rate of spread, death rate is obvious.

Both of these things are not fixed and can be changed by societies response.

Ie R0 of common flu would be 10x higher if we didn't have a vaccine for it.

The danger of saying it's just like the flu is the current R0 & death rate for Corona virus is not just like the flu, it is currently 4x faster spreading and 10x more deadly, if society recognizes this and mitigates against it then it's quite possible that the R0 and Deathrate can be reduced to be just like the flu but at the moment that hasn't been achieved.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 8:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
No expert is going to tell you that you won't get the disease and no expert will tell you that you will get the disease. I have no idea why you even posed a question with such an obvious answer. But then the next question kind of answers that.

Apparently you have zero knowledge of what's going on because it's been reported ad infinitum the reason why you want to slow the rate that people get the disease. And it has everything to do with death predictions.
Wow that was deep dude.

And why would the rate in which someone or a population gets a disease change whether an individual will live or die? Is your body better prepared if you get it in 3 weeks vs if you get it tomorrow? I was not aware of that type of human condition if that is the case. Assume that is not the case with the human ability to fight illness, then what is the next logical conclusion.

I would love to hear you answer. actually I don't care. You can live with propaganda if you want but we know what the answer is.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 8:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
The body's ability to combat the illness doesn't change but societies does. Therapies are developed and if the curve is flattened then health system capacity copes so you can be ventilated if required rather than not if the health system is overrun. If makes a massive difference if you get 150m people infected over 3 months or 1 year.
Which is exactly what I am saying.

So this belly aching on which state is doing what and where has no bearing on anything other than that individuals states and/or local ability to cope with it. Even with the ability to cope with it, there still be a subset of the population that simply will not be able to respond to treatment even with resources. That is also just like the flu.

It looks like we are all in agreement, so stop trying to blame politicians for a cruel curve ball nature has thrown our way. Quit acting like such and such state is out killing it's people. There is a balance between tanking your economy and planning the outbreak to be within the curve that your resources can bare.
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       04-02-2020, 9:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
No, they refused to call witnesses on the democrats behalf. The democrats already had their witnesses and made their case. That was the impeachment. The democrats had No power of subpoenas and very limited time to call people.
There, fixed it for you. You are are living in an alternate universe. The republicans were complaining about not being allowed to call certain witnesses during the impeachment, Then refused to call Any witnesses, when they could have called Anyone! I was against the impeachment from day One, but, Nobody can be declared a winner until the next Senate election.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-02-2020, 9:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
So this belly aching on which state is doing what and where has no bearing on anything other than that individuals states and/or local ability to cope with it. Even with the ability to cope with it, there still be a subset of the population that simply will not be able to respond to treatment even with resources.
Errr no, not really. If using our own agreed numbers if societies response is good then the death rate will drop down to 0.1% with a poor response 1%. It is Governments job to marshal societies response, both at the state and federal level. And because of the way the virus travels it is critical there is good coordination state to state, realistically that is the federal governments mandate.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 10:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
There, fixed it for you. You are are living in an alternate universe. The republicans were complaining about not being allowed to call certain witnesses during the impeachment, Then refused to call Any witnesses, when they could have called Anyone! I was against the impeachment from day One, but, Nobody can be declared a winner until the next Senate election.
Because impeachment is where you call witnesses. When the democrats chose not to build a compelling case, why would the Republicans call witnesses after the fact. The democrats did nothing but waste peoples time with a predetermined motive (as told back in 2017 what they were going to do) and the weakest of a cause to impeach. You are stupid if you call anymore witnesses when this was a witch hunt that did not even produce a witch.

yep. Democrats made their bed. We will see when the election comes.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-02-2020, 10:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Errr no, not really. If using our own agreed numbers if societies response is good then the death rate will drop down to 0.1% with a poor response 1%. It is Governments job to marshal societies response, both at the state and federal level. And because of the way the virus travels it is critical there is good coordination state to state, realistically that is the federal governments mandate.
The federal government does not have any tools outside of removing the citizens rights. There are no provisions in the constitution for removing the citizens ability of free association. The federal government does not have the ability unless congress wants to give Trump supreme power. What the states have done already may face post virus lawsuits to recoup lost revenue due to unconstitutional orders. We will see. Hopefully we will not all go that low, but someone will.

as far as death rate. You only know death rate if you know the amount infected. If you assume the 56%, the highest expected rate is 0.1% (you are correct with the highest rate). We will not ever know the exact amount infected though, but just like the flu I am sure everyone will know some set of people who got it. I am sure the rate will be somewhere in between though. What I have seen reported in the US is confirmed cases, meaning someone was feeling sick enough to go in, met the criteria to get tested, the was confirmed through testing. Of that group, we had been losing around 1%. may be a little higher now, maybe 2% at worst. I bet you anything that the amount of non tested and infected is way way higher than the tested.

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 04-02-2020 at 10:20 AM.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-02-2020, 10:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
as far as death rate. You only know death rate if you know the amount infected. If you assume the 56%, the highest expected rate is 0.1% (you are correct with the highest rate). We will not ever know the exact amount infected though, but just like the flu I am sure everyone will know some set of people who got it. I am sure the rate will be somewhere in between though. What I have seen reported in the US is confirmed cases, meaning someone was feeling sick enough to go in, met the criteria to get tested, the was confirmed through testing. Of that group, we had been losing around 1%. may be a little higher now, maybe 2% at worst. I bet you anything that the amount of non tested and infected is way way higher than the tested.
Yes of course but the same is true of the flu, the number of people who get the flu but don't get tested for it almost everyone who gets the flu. I have had it 3 or 4 times over the last 30 years, but never been tested for it.
So yes there is a dominator problem but you have the same problem for flu so the numbers are equivalent.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-02-2020, 10:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
The federal government does not have any tools outside of removing the citizens rights. There are no provisions in the constitution for removing the citizens ability of free association.
Wrong. https://www.loc.gov/law/help/peaceful-assembly/us.php

The First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public safety or order
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-02-2020, 11:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I would love to hear you answer. actually I don't care. You can live with propaganda if you want but we know what the answer is.
OK, I get that you believe everything in the news is propaganda. But to not know why reducing the number of people simultaneously getting sick saves lives is well.... just f**king stupid. Just like saying you both love and don't care about the same thing is stupid.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-02-2020, 12:52 PM Reply   
I'm not much of a meme guy but this made me LOL. Who said libs have no sense of humor?
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Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       04-02-2020, 12:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
I'm not much of a meme guy but this made me LOL. Who said libs have no sense of humor?
Tuck Frump! And the elevator he rode down on!
His approval rating is at an all time high.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/
Old     (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       04-02-2020, 1:44 PM Reply   
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-03-2020, 1:06 AM Reply   
Nah man, you two dweebs (marky mark and deltawhoareyou) are the clear minority.
Must suck to suck, suckers.
Your people and worldview are going by the wayside.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 3:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
Nah man, you two dweebs (marky mark and deltawhoareyou) are the clear minority.
Must suck to suck, suckers.
Your people and worldview are going by the wayside.
Not the first time I’ve been one of two sane people in a larger group. Speaking of groups, shouldn’t you be getting together with your Tide Pod eating group tonight? I hope a lot of people show up for you. We’ll see how much of a minority we’re in come November. If “our people and world view” go by the wayside, who will pay your rent, pay for your college or employ you? Whose basement will you move to?
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-03-2020, 3:23 AM Reply   
Well, yours obviously. After I pull down all anime posters.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 3:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Wrong. https://www.loc.gov/law/help/peaceful-assembly/us.php

The First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public safety or order
Have to disagree:

Quote:
https://www.ccn.com/california-governors-The First Amendment to the Constitution guarantees “the right of the people peaceably to assemble.” The strict prohibition on any law abridging this right applies to state and local governments as well as Congress.

Under the Incorporation Doctrine (which applies the Bill of Rights to states through case law via the 14th Amendment), the Supreme Court has fully incorporated the First Amendment guarantees to place these strictures on the states.

There are not exceptions for emergencies in the constitution. Guarantees are guarantees. In a 1990 paper entitled, “Emergency in the Constitutional Law of the United States,” University of Missouri School of Law professor, William B. Fisch wrote:

Neither the term “emergency” nor any cognate of comparable generality appears in the text of the United States Constitution.

He also wrote:

the Constitution was intended to function in emergencies as well as in normal times, and therefore an emergency affords no excuse for deviating from its terms

Further, Fisch writes that there are three specific emergency power exceptions explicitly granted in the Constitution (in times of war and rebellion), “inviting the conclusion that the Framers intended no other exceptions to be recognized.”

Throughout the last century “emergencies” have been the pretext for despotic governments to step beyond their legitimate prerogatives.

Governments downplay the radical measures taken in emergencies as “temporary” the way California’s governor did with the stay-at-home order. But all too often policymakers do not retreat from precedents established in “emergencies.” Look no further than the post-9/11 regime.stay-at-home-order-is-unconstitutional/
With that said, it does appear that local, state, and federal officials have some right to quarantine, however the argument appears to be at the federal level they can only limit travel from outside the US and not within the US.

Quote:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...r-place-134407

All three levels of government have the power to quarantine.

States can quarantine citizens who present with symptoms within their borders. Local governments can quarantine smaller communities or areas of individuals that present with the coronavirus symptoms. The federal government too has responsibilities; it has the power to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries.

And the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has the authority to detain and examine anyone arriving in the U.S. suspected of carrying the coronavirus. That includes passengers from airplanes, motor vehicles or ships.

The CDC can also issue a federal isolation or quarantine order, which allows state public health authorities to seek help from local law enforcement to administer and enforce the federal quarantine orders.
Reading other articles when they speak of quarantine, they are speaking about an actual confirmation of a disease and not that a disease is loose in the public. The language seems to suggest known person or persons not just a large population but not confirmed.

Quote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...e-orders-legal

A “shelter in place” order has been issued for seven counties around San Francisco, and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio is considering issuing one for New York. Leaving aside the degree of public health necessity, the obvious question is: How can and will such orders be enforced?

The order does “request” that the police “ensure compliance with and enforce this order.” And it declares that violation of the order “constitutes an immediate threat and creates an immediate menace to public health.” But if the police chose to arrest violators, this language would probably not be enough to sustain a criminal conviction. The order is simply too vague, and the punishment for constituting a threat or a public health menace would have to come from some existing statute or ordinance.
Interesting discussion:

Quote:
https://law.stanford.edu/2020/03/25/...mes-of-crisis/

Can you talk about that a bit more—the limits to presidential powers?

In a decision from the Korean War known as the Steel Seizure Case, the Supreme Court decided that President Truman couldn’t constitutionally take over the steel mills in order to prevent a strike because Congress had disapproved that method of dealing with possible labor conflicts.

As some commentators have already suggested, we should be careful of the kinds of emergency powers that we urge the President to use at this point. The Stafford Act is well designed to protect against executive overreach; under the Act, state governors request relief, which the President can then provide, preserving a healthy balance between state initiative and federal response. The Defense Production Act could also assist in the creation of necessary items for the current emergency, including ventilators. The National Emergencies Act may be more ambivalent. While it could potentially permit use of defense funds and army personnel to build structures for quarantine or other necessary projects, it has recently been the subject of significant controversy because it was the source for President Trump’s ability to continue constructing a border wall between the U.S. and Mexico. We should be careful that the precedents for executive power set in the Covid-19 context do not open the door for more expansive presidential authority in such other contexts. Whether or not the President is invoking executive power, he should be using his unique rhetorical position to urge everyone in the United States to take the appropriate measures to stem the spread of Covid-19.

What emergency powers do governors have? You’ve mentioned quarantine—is that primarily the responsibility of the states or the federal government?

The power to quarantine has traditionally been one of the primary state “police powers,” a set of powers over health, safety, and the public welfare that the states have been thought to exercise in a plenary fashion, at least in the absence of contrary federal law. Even in the earliest decisions over federal power under the Commerce Clause, the Supreme Court acknowledged the states’ authority to engage in quarantines and interpreted the Commerce Clause to protect that. Although the caselaw is not massive, courts have generally held that quarantine laws—when valid—can withstand heightened scrutiny, hence allowing for restrictions of civil liberties that would otherwise not be contemplated. Federal power to quarantine ramped up later, in the late nineteenth century, and is now codified in the Public Health Service Act, passed in 1944, which permits the federal government to quarantine those who are traveling between states or might be a probable source of infection to individuals who will be sojourning outside the state. The Public Health Service Act has not, however, been used extensively to implement domestic quarantines, and such quarantines remain largely the province of state governments.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 3:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
Nah man, you two dweebs (marky mark and deltawhoareyou) are the clear minority.
Must suck to suck, suckers.
Your people and worldview are going by the wayside.
Awe, bless your heart again. By the way side, you mean like not wanting to be annexed by Mexico or China? Given away all your rights to the UN? I am sure you are stupid enough to want something like that.

Or do you mean by the way side for not being drug addicts?

By the way side for actually supporting the constitution or by the way side for not wanting free stuff?

What does by the way side mean or do you even know how do define it?

Besides you are most likely too lazy to get up early enough to be able to make anyone by the way side.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 3:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
I'm not much of a meme guy but this made me LOL. Who said libs have no sense of humor?
Just shows you are a full blown prick.
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-03-2020, 3:58 AM Reply   
extinction
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 4:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
OK, I get that you believe everything in the news is propaganda. But to not know why reducing the number of people simultaneously getting sick saves lives is well.... just f**king stupid. Just like saying you both love and don't care about the same thing is stupid.
I am pretty sure it has been quite clear as to why people not getting sick at the same time saves lives. It is a resource issue. Just like with the flu. You have the same amount of people get the flu at the same time, you would have similar results.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 4:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
extinction
I would love for you to try looser. What have you achieved in your miserable little life?
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-03-2020, 4:05 AM Reply   
That was not a threat, that was an observation.
Glad you are scared though.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 4:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
Why would liberal care. Weren't you A holes the ones fearing over peak oil and the environment trying to raise every single gas tax you could to raise the cost of gas so high that the average American would think twice about using it? Aren't you those guys?

As far as the world stage of the price of oil, there is a point where the cost goes so low that American oil is not viable and we would have to shut down production so you have to have some reasonable price point.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 4:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
That was not a threat, that was an observation.
Glad you are scared though.
Not scared, just ready to beat some a$$.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 4:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
That was not a threat, that was an observation.
Glad you are scared though.
Again since you seem to think you are ready to run the world. What have you achieved? What is your contribution to society as it's new self declared leader of the new generation?
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-03-2020, 4:12 AM Reply   
Then go get you some.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 4:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
Tuck Frump! And the elevator he rode down on!
His approval rating is at an all time high.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/
How many days in a row are we allowed to rub your nose in it if Trump wins?
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 4:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
That was not a threat, that was an observation.
Glad you are scared though.
You are not even semi-entertaining here. A complete waste. You’re just our resident fatherless, latch-key, snot-nosed child. Future jailbird.
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-03-2020, 4:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
How many days in a row are we allowed to rub your nose in it if Trump wins?
Love how its now "if" and not "when." I see the cracks emerging.

Tronald Dump is the next Herbert Hoover.

Last edited by lesstalkmoreride; 04-03-2020 at 4:24 AM.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 4:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
Love how its now "if" and not "when." I see the cracks emerging.
That's just 95sn's butt crack you're seeing. Get ready to toss that salad, junior.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 4:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
Love how its now "if" and not "when." I see the cracks emerging.

Tronald Dump is the next Herbert Hoover.
You wish. Trump wins, you leave. Dem wins, Grant leaves. how about that?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 4:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
Love how its now "if" and not "when." I see the cracks emerging.

Tronald Dump is the next Herbert Hoover.
Still waiting:

Again since you seem to think you are ready to run the world. What have you achieved? What is your contribution to society as it's new self declared leader of the new generation?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       04-03-2020, 4:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You wish. Trump wins, you leave. Dem wins, Grant leaves. how about that?
LOL I love how you vote somebody else out if Trump loses, Delta.

FWIW where has Grant been? He hasn't posted in this thread for quite a while.
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-03-2020, 4:36 AM Reply   
Putting ignorant repubs in their place does not make the leader.
It does make me a good person.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 4:36 AM Reply   
[QUOTE=shawndoggy;1996392]LOL I love how you vote somebody else out if Trump loses, Delta.

LOL I got a pretty good laugh out of that one.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 4:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
Putting ignorant repubs in their place does not make the leader.
It does make me a good person.
You've done none of that ever here. F'ing delusional waste of your mom's resources.
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-03-2020, 4:49 AM Reply   
False, I have a (very very tiny) metaphorical jar with your nutz on my desk. They're just adorable.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-03-2020, 4:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I am pretty sure it has been quite clear as to why people not getting sick at the same time saves lives. It is a resource issue. Just like with the flu. You have the same amount of people get the flu at the same time, you would have similar results.
Pretty sure this is different from the flu. I went snowboarding 3 weeks ago while sick with the flu. Barely slowed me down.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 5:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Pretty sure this is different from the flu. I went snowboarding 3 weeks ago while sick with the flu. Barely slowed me down.
Hmm. Sounds just like how the Kung Flu barely affects some people.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-03-2020, 5:21 AM Reply   
The guy they fired for trying to take care of his crew.
https://twitter.com/Sotero269/status...225430529?s=20

that republican state of Florida may turn blu BECAUSE of republucan leadership. Unemployment will be fresh in their minds.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronav...dpy-story.html

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/flori...designed-fail/

Arizona...must be a Republican confidence booster.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...virus-response

Oh and Georgia, always a republican stronghold....Gonna be tough to talk down Kemps ineptness.

And then there is Kushner. " the US stockpile is not meant for the states"
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...virus-pandemic
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/jared...091408992.html

Dont even have to mention the Yam face. His "BEST PEOPLE" only the best.

The minority sounds pretty confident today. But, they never were too smart anyway.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-03-2020, 5:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Hmm. Sounds just like how the Kung Flu barely affects some people.
Clearly has less affect on smaller brains, I mean they are smaller after all. Bummer, you defied the odds, it has infected your racist little brain.
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       04-03-2020, 5:24 AM Reply   
Delta I scratch my head as to why you are on this thread with your level of knowledge on every major subject that impacts the world. I have always been impressed (see sarcasm) by your explanation and ways to fix the health care system, global economics, world hunger, drug and sex trafficking, global politics, war policy and doctrine, etc etc etc etc the list goes on and on and on.

Who new you were a virologist, epidemiologist and had inside information to the inner working of China and South Korea. I wish you were in Trumps' cabinet you could solve all of these problems and they would reopen my boat ramp.

You are the true stable genius. What is also fascinating is that with your level of intellect - and I am not being sarcastic - you do not allow for any other opinions or thoughts other than your own. You just attack Shawn, Fly, 95, Ralph relentlessly as if their opinions are "stupid" because they do not align with yours.

Mark is worse and I fully expect some childish scream down from him that I have TDS or I am a lib or blah blah blah.

Also - this is real and I have no words


https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...les-e-schumer/
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 5:46 AM Reply   
[QUOTE=whiteflashwatersports1;1996401]
Mark is worse and I fully expect some childish scream down from him that I have TDS or I am a lib or blah blah blah.

Gee whiz. You can turn those words back to anyone posting here. This is a battlefield. Don't you recognize that? We all want our ideas and positions to dominate. I try to mix in some humor in many forms (some self-deprecating) to keep it fun. Most libs don't recognize humor and can't joke about anything-especially themselves. The most interesting part of this 18,000+ post thread is the fact that we keep coming back here despite changing no one's opinion. A tad insane, don't you think?
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 5:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteflashwatersports1 View Post
Delta I scratch my head as to why you are on this thread with your level of knowledge on every major subject that impacts the world. I have always been impressed (see sarcasm) by your explanation and ways to fix the health care system, global economics, world hunger, drug and sex trafficking, global politics, war policy and doctrine, etc etc etc etc the list goes on and on and on.

Who new you were a virologist, epidemiologist and had inside information to the inner working of China and South Korea. I wish you were in Trumps' cabinet you could solve all of these problems and they would reopen my boat ramp.

You are the true stable genius. What is also fascinating is that with your level of intellect - and I am not being sarcastic - you do not allow for any other opinions or thoughts other than your own. You just attack Shawn, Fly, 95, Ralph relentlessly as if their opinions are "stupid" because they do not align with yours.

Mark is worse and I fully expect some childish scream down from him that I have TDS or I am a lib or blah blah blah.

Also - this is real and I have no words


https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...les-e-schumer/
I absolutely LOVE Trump's letter to that D-bag. What a pu$$y he is to keep up the coup attempts and then cry when he gets punched back. Typical bully.
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-03-2020, 5:50 AM Reply   
I can agree with you on the sportive nature of this stupid forum.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 5:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
I can agree with you on the sportive nature of this stupid forum.
Sucking up won't work with me, junior.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-03-2020, 6:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Hmm. Sounds just like how the Kung Flu barely affects some people.
It's possible. My buddy who spent 30 hours in the car and 3 nights in a hotel with me on the trip came down hard with it one day after we got back. His doctor wouldn't give him a covid or a flu test, but instead told him to go to urgent care because they were too busy.

Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 6:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteflashwatersports1 View Post
Delta I scratch my head as to why you are on this thread with your level of knowledge on every major subject that impacts the world. I have always been impressed (see sarcasm) by your explanation and ways to fix the health care system, global economics, world hunger, drug and sex trafficking, global politics, war policy and doctrine, etc etc etc etc the list goes on and on and on.

Who new you were a virologist, epidemiologist and had inside information to the inner working of China and South Korea. I wish you were in Trumps' cabinet you could solve all of these problems and they would reopen my boat ramp.

You are the true stable genius. What is also fascinating is that with your level of intellect - and I am not being sarcastic - you do not allow for any other opinions or thoughts other than your own. You just attack Shawn, Fly, 95, Ralph relentlessly as if their opinions are "stupid" because they do not align with yours.

Mark is worse and I fully expect some childish scream down from him that I have TDS or I am a lib or blah blah blah.

Also - this is real and I have no words


https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...les-e-schumer/
Awe, you are here again with your repeat performance.

Funny, I can say the exact same things about them as well, yet here you are defending them. You defend them because you think like them and you, like other authorian liberals, can not stand someone to challenge you. You see this is the beauty of a discussion and here is the secret, there are always points and counter points. Go and find the information. It is not that I am the expert, I just know how things work in general. Nothing is for free so it is easy to find information that shows you how it is not for free. Your rights are well documented. Go look them up. Did you know participate in high school? They actually tried to teach you some of this stuff about government. If I am not mistaken, it is actually a requirement to graduate.

I have been on this board since 2002. I don't attack others without them attacking first. Ironic you see it as me attacking. Very laughable and insight to your bias. You really should go back over the years and see who has been calling who names and who has started posts and actually called people out by name to attack. I would say you would be surprised, but you already know the answer. At the end of the day, you are just a hack.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 6:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteflashwatersports1 View Post
Delta I scratch my head as to why you are on this thread with your level of knowledge on every major subject that impacts the world. I have always been impressed (see sarcasm) by your explanation and ways to fix the health care system, global economics, world hunger, drug and sex trafficking, global politics, war policy and doctrine, etc etc etc etc the list goes on and on and on.

Who new you were a virologist, epidemiologist and had inside information to the inner working of China and South Korea. I wish you were in Trumps' cabinet you could solve all of these problems and they would reopen my boat ramp.

You are the true stable genius. What is also fascinating is that with your level of intellect - and I am not being sarcastic - you do not allow for any other opinions or thoughts other than your own. You just attack Shawn, Fly, 95, Ralph relentlessly as if their opinions are "stupid" because they do not align with yours.

Mark is worse and I fully expect some childish scream down from him that I have TDS or I am a lib or blah blah blah.

Also - this is real and I have no words


https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...les-e-schumer/

Also, opinions are stupid not when they don't align with mine, they are stupid when they keep repeating biased non-sense like someone else in their life is responsible and holds power over them (aka, their obsession with Trump and anyone who supports Trump). you want to bash Trump supporters, fine, I will be your huckle berrry. You want to pile on other conservatives on this board, then lets mount up and bring your lunch. I don't like bullies and these guys are bullies. I love it. You named a nearly a half dozen people against one and want to complain that I am the one? And, yet here you are too. You don't want anyone to challenge you (intellectually lazy I bet), you just want an echo chamber. You could not be any more full of sh$t.

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 04-03-2020 at 6:37 AM.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 6:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
LOL I love how you vote somebody else out if Trump loses, Delta.

FWIW where has Grant been? He hasn't posted in this thread for quite a while.
I have too much to lose. to use and analogy, why would a millionaire fight with a homeless guy?

Actually Grant already made that bet last time, so I figured I would use it. Besides, I love Grant and Trump is not going to lose. I would think him being gone would be the greatest loss to this board so betting Grant would be the biggest asset to put behind such a bet. haha
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 6:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
Putting ignorant repubs in their place does not make the leader.
It does make me a good person.
Yes. If calling Republicans poo poo heads is putting us in our place then you are doing just a fine job. Here is your go gurt now leave us alone.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 6:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
It's possible. My buddy who spent 30 hours in the car and 3 nights in a hotel with me on the trip came down hard with it one day after we got back. His doctor wouldn't give him a covid or a flu test, but instead told him to go to urgent care because they were too busy.

And, how did he do? Is he still with us?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 6:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Pretty sure this is different from the flu. I went snowboarding 3 weeks ago while sick with the flu. Barely slowed me down.
So are you on the bashing of the Georgia Governor for not knowing that asymptomatic people can spread Covid 19 or you on the non-bashing side of the argument? If you can have it and not be symptomatic, then how can you say this is not in the same discussion as the flu? While I am sure it may hit a little harder than the flu, it sure does sound a lot like the flu in a general sense.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 6:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Yes. If calling Republicans poo poo heads is putting us in our place then you are doing just a fine job. Here is your go gurt now leave us alone.
Lol
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 6:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
Putting ignorant repubs in their place does not make the leader.
It does make me a good person.
By the way. Bravo for the way you used "Tronald Dump". you certainly showed us. Keep up the good work.
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-03-2020, 7:16 AM Reply   
Yea, its pretty good, huh. You are welcome to use it too.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-03-2020, 7:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I am pretty sure it has been quite clear as to why people not getting sick at the same time saves lives. It is a resource issue. Just like with the flu. You have the same amount of people get the flu at the same time, you would have similar results.
Oh genius observation, if flu was worse than the flu it would be just like coronavirus.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-03-2020, 7:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Oh genius observation, if flu was worse than the flu it would be just like coronavirus.
The jury on your contrarian a$$ just returned. Guilty on all counts of being a Richard. You ARE the weakest link.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-03-2020, 7:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Oh genius observation, if flu was worse than the flu it would be just like coronavirus.
it is pure genius. It is start to look that simple when it is all broken down. Sure, we have to deal with it. it sucks. Quit back seat driving and complaining. You guys are the ones panicking or trying to make it political (as usual). How about being supportive. Quit trying to drum up panic and trying to seed discontent especially as a foreigner who is trying to impact our elections.


Now that you are talking, so resorted to posting body bags like Trump had something to do with it and then lecture us from across the world on what the presidents role in government response is then try and act like he has something to do with it?
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