Help me spend my money!!

Kids are now teenagers and really want a boat (almost as bad as Dad). So I began shopping and was stunned by the number of choices and obviously the amount of money required.

So here is where I'm at. Both kids (and many friends) are interested in wakeboarding and wakesurfing. Both are beginners but are athletic and very good snowboarders so I know they are going to pick this stuff up really fast. Dad... not so much.

The first boat on the list is a '10 Moomba LSV. Nothing flashy but has everything we need. Like the size and have some experience with another LSV (friend). A good boat at a GREAT price. Brand new.

Second boat. Moving up a quick $10k is a used '09 Team SAN 210. Cleanest used boat I have ever seen. Boat has most of the bling including upgraded stereo etc and low hours. I have never driven or ridden in a Nautique and there is a foot of snow on the ground and the lake is frozen so I'm going into this one blind. Interiors of Nautiques look old when they are brand new if you ask me. Afraid the wife won't be thrilled with that. Are those straight seats comfy when spending a day on the lake? That's where I need your advise. Good surfing wake w/o having to buy a lot of additional ballast??

Third and final boat is a brand new 2011 custom ordered Malibu VTX. Shorter but a lot of bling. Also have experience with a few Malibu's. Love the interior, dealer and ability to choose colors etc. This boat is yet more money. Approx a $5k bump over the SAN.

So for those of you who have a lot of experience with a lot of boats, please weigh in. I'm having a hard time making a decision

My advice, don't buy anything blind. The best part of buying a new boat is the part where you get to try them out. It will be spring soon enough and until you drive and ride behind all of them you're not going to know what is best for you. That said, I really don't think you could go wrong with any of those boats.

Some other things you want to consider:
* Not all wakes are equal. Malibu/Axis is going to incorporate the wedge into the equation so definitely drive one of those. Some people don't like the feel of driving a wedged boat. Also, you mentioned surfing. I don't know of a single boat that will be "great" for surfing without adding additional ballast.
* The interior of a Malibu (especially a brand new one) is going to blow away the other boats on your list. It's not even close.
* weight of boat - will your current vehicle be able to tow it?
* length of boat - will it fit into your storage area?
* dealer - I feel this one gets overlooked a lot. Is saving a couple dollars now worth having to deal with a less-than-perfect dealer/maintenance scenario?

Shawn, great advice. We have only purchased two boats, both new. Your right, the best part is going to demo all the different boats. I'm a big Malibu guy so I won't chime in on which boat to buy but I will say don't rush into buying your new boat. Do as much research as you can on each boat. You really need to drive each boat. Being the Dad it is most likely you will be in the drivers seat the majority of the time whether it is taking the wife on an evening cruise or pulling teenagers around the lake all day boarding. As stated, additional ballast is needed to create a great surf wave but it is possible to get started on the stock ballast and wedge with Malibu.

Are you financing? You might want to look at jumping up to a VLX for about $30 more per month.

Welcome to wakeworld. That's really cool of you to buy a boat to get your kids in to wakeboarding. I grew up wakeboarding (skurfing at the time) behind a 40hp Jon boat, and still loved it.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the top wakeboard boats, Mastercraft, Nautique, Moomba, Supra, Tige, MB, Sanger, Centurion, Calabria, Axis, Epic, all make good wakeboard boats. It just depends on what you like better.

I really like the Tige RZR, I've never ridden behind it, but heard it has a great wake.

I've got an 07 VTX and I can say it's a great boat. It drives like a sports car, has a great wake and can take on extra ballast for a great surf wake. For an all around boat it's the best of your list. If you're going to have more than 9-10 people and looking for a little larger wake upgrade to the VLX.

And to give you an idea ont he surf wake, this is the surf wake with an extra 400lbs in the rear locker. I'm upgrading that to a 750 this year, and bellow is the wake running at 1400lbs, which will also be upgrade to about 2300lbs

That's some rough riding conditions right there!

Dad, what city are you in? feel free to pm me if you dont want to give out info publically.

Yeah the storm was just kicking in, about 10 mins later we were running for the shore with water breaking over the bow

I'm in a suburb of Detroit.

That surf wake looks great. I'm leaning toward the VTX because I can buy new (my colors etc) and I like the smaller size but that might be a little short sighted. I started looking for a decent used boat and don't think I want to spend new VLX money. I love my kids... but maybe not that much ;-)

The big p-lus we got out of our VTX was that it fit in our garage and saved us storage money, though we think we might be able to do the same with the VLX. THe VTX handles better than any boat I've ever driven, it's seriously like a little sports car. Super responsive, and turns on a dime. Once you get over 30mph the wake really mellow out and you have one of the better skiing wakes out there

Here is another pic of the wake running stock ballast+ wedge in a little calmer water.

I am not too sure about the "old" comments about Nautique interiors, but here is something to consider. Out of the boats you listed, I am pretty sure the only one with a finished fiberglass cockpit liner is the Super Air 210. When dealing with kids and their friends, being able to snap out the carpet and quicly clean up spills and other stuff is a big advantage.


I do agree with what others said, driving and riding behind the boats is necessary. Buying blind can be dangerous, especially for big dollar items like boats. Getting unbaised opinions about boats is almost impossible on forums. I could go on about Nautique durability and comfort, but I know I am partially biased and thats not going to help you make the right decision.

Have you thought about an Axis? Going to run you about the same $ as a new VTX (might even be a bit cheaper) You should be able to check one out at the Malibu dealer you would be ordering your VTX from. I am not sure how big your normal crew will be but I imagine with teenagers they are going to want to invite some friends along. It steps you up to a 22ft boat with a pickle fork front end which is going to give you a lot more space over the VTX. We have an A22 and I frequently ride behind Chris's (cjh1669) VTX. You really can't go wrong with either boat or any boat that is on your list. You can also order the axis with the plug and play ballast option and you have one of the biggest wakes right out of the box. However like most people have stated go drive them all or at least crawl around in them and find the one that works best for you and your family.

I hear you. I essentially set out looking for only Malibu and Nautique. After shopping around, didn't think I could find a Nautique in my price range that would compare with a new Bu. Then, just as I was about to pull the trigger, a local boat came across the screen that looks great. So I find myself having to decide now rather than later IF I plan to buy a new boat.

By 'old looking" interiors, I refer to the very straight design. It's like the designers only had access to a ruler. Seating is not plush and if you compare the current interiors to the ones of 10+ years ago, I don't see much difference. You have to keep a couple of things in mind here. I'm old. Not just old, but old and married. The interior counts more than the wake when it comes to getting things past the "appropriations committee" ;-) Put a wife in the Nautique and the Malibu and 9 out of 10 will go Malibu. They do interiors well. Now I happen to like Nautique's. Goes back to my youth when I lusted for one while my buddies were all going crazy for Mastercrafts or those new fangled Supra's. There, have I dated myself enough?? So I find myself in a situation where the girls in the house want a Malibu and the boys want a SAN. This must be handled with extreme caution ;-)

The AXIS is a nice boat BUT it's just not for me. My son LOVED it and I think it is exactly what the industry needs. $70k+ is crazy in my opinion. I like some of the more "plush" features. If I order new, my boat will not have what I consider "loud" graphics. I like what I like and I'm good with that.

Not a Tige owner but if your buying a new boat and there is a good dealer within the same amount of distance go check one out and ride in it. The drivers seat air chair is probably one of the most comfortable seats I have ever been in. Also have a real tall free board that makes for much more comfortable relaxing and riding around. Just go at least sit in one. Wake wise any of these boats will do what you need Tige probably stronger for surfing but all will surf. My only real knock on the CC is how low their seats are to the floor for a tall guy its not as comfortable. The drivers seat floor is lower than the rest of the boat which does help or at least on the 2008 210 I ride behind. Good luck but I would not buy blind and drive more boats. Oh and get plug in play if its available in any of the boats you look at.

Another boat you may want to look into is the MB, I'd say they are by far the most inovative boat manufactures out there right now. They retail around the same price as the supra and you can get them custom without all the weird gelcoat and vinyl designs.

I have never owned the boats you are looking at but spent some time in each....so no owner goggles here. I lke the SAN the best if money is no object. Built solid and has the most efficient wake out there...meaning you do not need a ton of ballast to make a really nice wake or surf wave and probably has the best ride of the three in chop.

Since you may be relatively new to boating, I might suggest looking seriously at some 2-6 year old boats in the $25-$30K range. I am going to save myself the embarrasment of telling you all the things I got wrong when I first bought a tow boat but think I was typical of new owners where you can expect some some potential mishaps. You can save yourself a lot of grief by being on the learning curve of a gently used ride than a mint condition boat. Everyone that buys a boat is super stoked the day the drive off the lot and has visions of boating endlessly throughout the summer. Two or 3 years laters only half of the people use the boat more than a handful of times a year, especially when you have teenagers with other sporting/class schedules, girlfriends, their buddies.... I am the tail end of the teen parenting gig and spent much more time with my boys when they were 10-14 than when they were 16-18 years old. Anyway by getting in at this segment of the used wakeboat market you can get quality rides and you have options. You u can almost always sell for pretty close to what you have in it if you spend some time shopping if the wake vibe fades. If your family grows into semi-serious wakeboarders, you can always step up to that dream ride after learning the ropes on a quality used boat after a year or two. Also despite all the advice you can get here or by talking to your friends, you will not really figure out what are the things that mater to YOU in a wakeboat before you buy, even if you spend the time demoing all the boats out there. Just takes experience of riding and being in a boat to refine the tastes which are highly individualized. That is why you will see lots of different opinions on here whenever there is a "which boat is best" posts.

I know exactly what you mean about the SAN interiors. In all the pictures it does look very straight in design. I am not sure how thick the actual cushions are, but it looks almost like they apply the vinyl tighter or something. I thought I was the only one who thought that about the nautiques. Anyways they are awesome boats and I am just going by what pictures look like so maybe it is different in person.

210

Dave seriously give MB's a look!!! Aquasports Marine in Fenton will treat you like family!

If you're into surfing, it's nice not to have to deal with adding extra weight. Stock ballast is more than enough to get your family started. The Gravity fed ballast tanks are the ship!!! No pumps to worry about or wait on. Fill or empty in 60seconds.

I spent over two years researching new inboards in SE Michigan. I could write pages about my experiences, but I have to go snowblow... Aghh gotta love Michigan!!! PM me if you want my two cents about the boats and dealerships in our area.

Happy Hunting

Another vote for MB. It will cost you about the same as the Moomba LSV, and it's a better boat. I honestly believe that.

I just sent you a PM with more info.

I agree the MB deserves a look. I also know Aqua Sports has a new 2011 F21 on the way to their shop! Go talk to Jeff, just to check out the boats and see what you think.

You should really hit up Action Watersports and see if they can get you into a new leftover X-2 or X-15 MasterCraft. The X-2 has more storage than the VTX and VLX for that matter.

As one who has recently went through this process I suggest that you explore all your options. I can share from my experience that you won’t go wrong buying a Moomba. It is a great boat for a great price. With that said I personally believe that MB provides the most boat for the best price. I have owned both and currently own an MB and could not be happier. It is nice not to have to mess with fat sack in order to surf. It provides a great wakeboard wake and you can ski behind it as well. In no way is it a tournament slalom ski boat wake but is good for recreational Skiing.
I have been in and ridden behind many other name brand boats but at the end of the day it just hard to justify spending that much extra cash for in my opinion little if any gain. IMO you should not have to pay more than around $50K for quality wake boat and I didn't.

Here is a pic

I love the idea of the MB ballast system. I have always wondered how it emptied while on the water I have seen it empty on the boat ramp but thats not ideal.

Mark there's some great videos on MB's site about their ballast system. You just have to be moving fast enough to get the ports on the transom out of water and then you open them and the water naturally comes out. Genius in my opinion.

210 for sure...I'll admit I am biased though because I have an 09 210 myself. The interior may appear old to you but it holds up better than any interior I've ever seen in a boat. Snap out carpet is also a huge plus. Which tower is on the 210 you are looking at?

All of these boats are great. But if you are new to boating I really believe AtTheLake provided some solid advice. In 2009, I was in the market for a boat. I grew up boating, but my wife did not, so I was looking for a solid used boat. I ended up with a new (left over) Centurion Avy because I got a great deal. Now that the wife/kids love boating and the fact the we have learned so much about what we do/dont really care about on the boat I am a much more educated buyer (love the Avy and will have it a while).

My only advice (because I really believe the top 7 boat makers all make solid boats and a lot comes to preference/local dealer) is that a 20' ft boat is going to be very small if you are out with your family and friends most weekends. Our Avy is 22ft with a ton of storage for its size and I feel crowded when I get over 8 people on the boat. Therefore, I would much rather have a larger gently used boat (they are easy to find) then a new smaller boat.

Originally Posted by lakesurfer

All of these boats are great. But if you are new to boating I really believe AtTheLake provided some solid advice. In 2009, I was in the market for a boat. I grew up boating, but my wife did not, so I was looking for a solid used boat. I ended up with a new (left over) Centurion Avy because I got a great deal. Now that the wife/kids love boating and the fact the we have learned so much about what we do/dont really care about on the boat I am a much more educated buyer (love the Avy and will have it a while).

My only advice (because I really believe the top 7 boat makers all make solid boats and a lot comes to preference/local dealer) is that a 20' ft boat is going to be very small if you are out with your family and friends most weekends. Our Avy is 22ft with a ton of storage for its size and I feel crowded when I get over 8 people on the boat. Therefore, I would much rather have a larger gently used boat (they are easy to find) then a new smaller boat.

Honestly the VTX is really wide. I can fit 9 adults on it and it doesn't feel super crowded. It tons of storage and it's suprsiingly roomy. We had one day with nine and some one sprawled out in the observers seat, legs up and all.

Originally Posted by cjh1669

Honestly the VTX is really wide. I can fit 9 adults on it and it doesn't feel super crowded. It tons of storage and it's suprsiingly roomy. We had one day with nine and some one sprawled out in the observers seat, legs up and all.

I am not knocking the VTX and Malibu makes a great boat. It was just a general comment. My guess is that there is not one boat listed above that is not at least 98 inches wide (the VTX). So IMO, the VTX is by far the smallest boat discussed in this thread. My Avy is 22 ft by 100 in wide so it has a ton of storage/room, but I seem to start running out when you have 4-5 adults plus 4-5 kids. It is my experience, that the younger the kids the more stuff you seem to have at the lake.

You can never have enough room, but you can definitely run out.

Aaron! I don't agree with you! All the 210 I saw has problem with the vinyl! It's nt suppose to happen on a 2 years old 90 000$ boat! Mastercraft looks a lot tougher than that!

I'd go with the Moomba. But that's just me.

Rick

I don't understand why anybody buys Moomba. But that's just me.

They are good looking boats, but with so many nicer options in the price range now (MB, Axis, Sanger, Tige, etc.), I don't see the attraction to the Moombas.

Originally Posted by rickt

I'd go with the Moomba. But that's just me.

Rick

Awesome. Just awesome.

Originally Posted by rickt

I'd go with the Moomba. But that's just me.

Rick

Yup Rick has this one nailed down

Thats a great looking MB, I would buy a slightly used MB B-52, they are like a boat on steroids. Also you can find one of these for a great price. (under 50k)

Nautique's and MC's, and now Tige's seem to be way over priced. jmo

Originally Posted by fredlap

Aaron! I don't agree with you! All the 210 I saw has problem with the vinyl! It's nt suppose to happen on a 2 years old 90 000$ boat! Mastercraft looks a lot tougher than that!

I would love to see those boats...

I'm not knocking cc, but I had vinyl rip at the seams of the jumpseat in my 08, 09 and 10. I've got friends with 230s as well (2 08s and an 09) and they have all had the rear corner seats pull open at the piping. I love the 210 and the wake it produces. I've also had issues with the vinyl in my 07 vlx and older xstar. The reality is that none of the interiors are perfect - even if you spend 100k. Some interiors are more complex for sure, but there's no trouble free vinyl or design on the market. One thing I do like about the a22 I ordered this year is the simple interior design. Like everything, the more stuff you have (piping, separate cushions, etc.) the more prone you are to have issues.

Originally Posted by chattwake

I'm not knocking cc, but I had vinyl rip at the seams of the jumpseat in my 08, 09 and 10. I've got friends with 230s as well (2 08s and an 09) and they have all had the rear corner seats pull open at the piping. I love the 210 and the wake it produces. I've also had issues with the vinyl in my 07 vlx and older xstar. The reality is that none of the interiors are perfect - even if you spend 100k. Some interiors are more complex for sure, but there's no trouble free vinyl or design on the market. One thing I do like about the a22 I ordered this year is the simple interior design. Like everything, the more stuff you have (piping, separate cushions, etc.) the more prone you are to have issues.

Really well said, I would just love to see them so I have ammo the next time CC dealers are trying to justify their insane price tags. Of the used boats I have looked at though (02-06), CC's stuff seems to have held up better over the year in comparison to the MCs I have seen.

I know its not alot of your money, but I can help you spend it. Wakepowell hats. Buy lots.

Originally Posted by tonyv420

Thats a great looking MB, I would buy a slightly used MB B-52, they are like a boat on steroids. Also you can find one of these for a great price. (under 50k)

I agree... like this one for example:

http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=27614

One thing that kills me about CC is that, unless something changed for 2011, the only base interior colors you can get is silver cloud (white) and then the other really really dark grey. For most of us, that dark grey is way to extreme and will get too hot. The white base that I had in my '08 and '09 changed color and darkened tremendously over the course of only one season. I know because when I replaced the jump seats, there was a big contract. My 2010 230 held up better and the white stayed whiter. I was told that cc changed its vinyl somewhat in mid model year of '10 to something that had more uv protectant in it or something. That's definitely a good upgrade. However, I'd really like cc to offer a base interior that just a light grey. My '07 VLX had a light grey base and I loved it. The problems I had with my old VLX is that the black parts of the rear sunpad discolored the first month I owned the boat and had to be replaced and the middle flip up seat tore at a seam from people stepping on it.

Again, I"m excited about he interior of the A22 and how the seating / piping is set up. It's very similar to what I had in my 230, only I can get the cement color (light grey) base that I want so it won't discolor and/or stain so bad.

My advice is don't buy anything new!!!!

Try to find something with low hours and about 3 years old.

You will still get a top quality boat with little use and you will save a bunch of money!!!!! Use that money to buy a timeshare on a Houseboat in Lake Powell!!!

Originally Posted by three6ty

My advice is don't buy anything new!!!!

Try to find something with low hours and about 3 years old.

You will still get a top quality boat with little use and you will save a bunch of money!!!!! Use that money to buy a timeshare on a Houseboat in Lake Powell!!!

THis is the route I went and I got more boat for less money. Mine only had 100hours on it and I got for 20k less than it was originally bought for. THere are some pluses and minuses, you don't get to pick the exact setup, no warranty, or you have to pay to move it, but other than that I'm happy. THe funny thing is we are look ing at powell shares now lol

I'm a little bias towards the SANTE because I have one, but if you have the money, the New SANTE 230 is 2nd to NONE!

Originally Posted by rickt

I'd go with the Moomba. But that's just me.

Rick

I agree with Mr. Tinker

check out MB at the Novi Show March 17-20

Just to confuse you some more

Some last words of advice coming from someone who was in your shoes 3 years ago and new nothing about wakeboard boats. In my opinion, ANY of the boats you are considering are going to give you and your kids a great time on the water. The wakes these boats produce for the average/advanced rider will be more than sufficient. It will come down to fit and finish, pricing, colors, and a big one.... dealer location. I would definitely stay at 21' and larger with a family, you will be surprised how quickly space is taken up. And with kids, they always want to bring friends along... which is how it should be and what makes it fun for everyone.

If you can find a clean used boat with low hours I would recommend going this route. You might be surprised how much you use or dont use the boat over the summer. You can always sell a used boat and upgrade to a new boat down the road. And if you end up not using it as much as you thought, you can always sell it and take a little loss, rather than a larger hit on a new boat.

If you are going to buy a new boat and want to be under or near $50k I would either go with a Moomba, or the MB. The Moomba line has stepped up there production over the past few years, and the MB line looks very nice and has a great ballast system.

Best of luck with your search, I am sure you will find something that works for you and your family.

Thanks Travis. I'm confident we will find a great boat. We are blessed in that we are surrounded by exceptional dealers. Currently leaning toward used Malibu's and Nautique's (great dealers near my home and the lake house) but will certainly check out the MB's at the Novi show. Not that familiar with the brand and don't see many used models around here. Most seem concentrated on the west coast.

I'm still stunned at the price Nautique, Mastercraft and Malibu command. I have a line on what looks like a really nice Nautique. I will keep everyone posted.

Originally Posted by OldDad

Thanks Travis. I'm confident we will find a great boat. We are blessed in that we are surrounded by exceptional dealers. Currently leaning toward used Malibu's and Nautique's (great dealers near my home and the lake house) but will certainly check out the MB's at the Novi show. Not that familiar with the brand and don't see many used models around here. Most seem concentrated on the west coast.

I'm still stunned at the price Nautique, Mastercraft and Malibu command. I have a line on what looks like a really nice Nautique. I will keep everyone posted.

Thats really cool, those are all fantastic boats. Between those three, new out of the box, I think Malibu will give you the best bang for your buck. Would also recommend getting a boat with at least a 100" beam width, this will give you more space and storage.

Dave P (OldDad) Look forward to seeing some pick of the boats you have narrowed down to.

Here are some customer riding pictures being Epics new 21V (budget boat), not even dialed in yet. Its nothing too fancy but you can see how high it boosts the rider.