Company, Then Humaniod, Now Sine?!?!?!?!?

This is fascinating to me. With the economy all anyone can talk about and money woes everywhere, 3 new board brands have launched this year. That is Amazing to me, is anyone else shocked by this. Over that last few years I have not seen any new companies spark up at least as far as wakeboards are concerned. A lot of new wakeskate companies but nothing in the way of wakeboards, but now three in one year. I sure hope they all make it thru there infancy! Is anyone else as blown away as me, I mean new companies where no big deal in the late 90's, seemed like everyone owned a wakeboard company. But for most they disappeared within a few years or less, the big players where established and there was no room for any one else, until 2009? What Changed?

Also anybody know anything about the newest edition Sine?

www.sinewakeboards.com

I have to agree that it would be pretty crazy in the best of times, but to see it when the economy is on a downturn is pretty nuts. However, I'm assuming that they were all probably rolling forward with their business plans way before everything tanked, so it was probably just bad timing. Hopefully, their plans included whatever it takes to make it through the first few years and be successful in the long run. Good luck to all of them.

I agree good luck to all of them.

If you have the money now is the time to do stuff.

Maybe these companies got their hands on the needed machines to make the boards dirt cheap from another company that went under... in that case it would be a great time to start. Keep the initial investment low buying out someone else for next to nothing and just hope you can wait it out.

My neighbor (rich rich rich man) has a business and it is slow, but he is buying everything because if he waited til business was "good" then all the things he wanted would be expensive again.

Since this summer I think he has bought 3 "fixer upper" houses to just sit on for a few years and sell, I see a new Porsche every time he is around and new snowmobiles all the time too....
clearly he is an odd case but I mean if you had $1.00 two years ago it was worth $1.00...
$1.00 now is like having $1.50

just checked out the sine site...i have to say i like some of the ideas they are bringing. i'll have to keep an eye on these.

You can customize your own board width and length...and even add your own custom bottom graphic! That is sweeeeet

that sine company looks pretty sweet! it will be tough for companies this year though i bet. one of my buddys that works at this board shop told me this year his shop ordered 75% less product then the previous years and they are still stuck with all the 08 product. i wonder how small board sales numbers will affect how pros get paid.

there USED TO BE a smidgen of additional info, pics (9 of them i think it was) of the mold or something here
http://www.shapelogic.com/Portfolio.shtml#
but i guess SINE found out we were peeking and had them remove it. due to their "secret design"

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quote:

We are so technologically advanced, our information is hidden...http://sinewakeboards.com/technology.html

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but i think it is safe to say this company, "shapelogic" has something to do with them?

They also say they will "tell their story later"
http://sinewakeboards.com/about-us-our-story.html

...could sign up for the news
http://sinewakeboards.com/about-us-newsletter.html




anyways...





I am surprised too, especially with the economy and just the shear size of wake as a sport AND the money it takes to pursue wake. Sure things are shaping up more to make wakeboarding a broader and more affordable sport with the cable parks and winches and all, but still, overall it is a rich man's sport... maybe one day i will be able to afford it ;)

Apparently the new wakeskate company, REMOTE, which is apparently also associated with Company-wake got money from a winning lottery ticket, but i don't know if that has been confirmed as a joke or a real thing? maybe these other companies have some good sources of investment too despite current times.

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the only other thing i can think of as to what is pushing these new companies is... i know it sounds cliche from me... Flex Tech.

with that said, it seems SINE would prefer to be known as "HYBRID FLEX boards"

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quote:

It's a different experience than either standard or flex boards. After a few rides, we think you'll be setting the water on fire in your own way.

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Seems that all these companies have a similar mission/statement in common: "Reviving the industry and creativity of wakeboard[s/ing]" (I am paraphrasing and interpreting) but don't take my word for it, read for yourself in the links bellow. see the common phrases, words, and tones?


http://sinewakeboards.com/about-us.html
http://www.humanoidwake.com/who/
http://slingshotwake.com/ (read the reasons the team rides SS, particularly Jeff Mckee's and the others below him)
http://companywake.com/yo/ (sorry i can't point out anything in particular. The blog is too long for me to sift through, but i know it is in there.. several times)

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on a last note, some things i thought were interesting about these new new guys:

SINE:
the reasons behind SINE's name and logo are pretty cool
http://sinewakeboards.com/about-us-our-name-and-logo.html
AND this video linked on their technology page was pretty wicked... as far as bouncing balls can be considered "wicked" http://www.liquidmetal.com/media/ball_bounce_DSL.mov ... not sure if they are actually using "liquid metal" though

HUMANOID
the tip and tail dish-outs are interesting as well as the unique shape of the tip and tail (even though it is a pre-production design)



new guys aint using 4-hole mounting

(Message edited by wakerider111 on January 26, 2009)

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quote:

By Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:52 pm:

there USED TO BE a smidgen of additional info, pics (9 of them i think it was) of the mold or something here
http://www.shapelogic.com/Portfolio.shtml#
but i guess SINE found out we were peeking and had them remove it. due to their "secret design"

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Based on what the mold looked like I dont know how they are going to do the custom one off sizes...maybe they have a variable mold or something. Or they'll do some by hand.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted that originally. Oops. I wonder why they had it taken down? It didnt really show much...just an aluminum mold.

Perhaps so more people dont learn the secret behind what it takes to make a board...even though you can learn ALOT from this vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni3tJk6af6I

Just need the resources and you too could be in the board makin biz.

The begining of the 'Truth' DVD by Justin Stephens, (coincidence?) also has a time lapse of board makin.

and their's this article...

http://www.wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=1863

Just incase anyone's as curious as I was/am.

Yeah, Kind of seriously thinking about delving into the "flex" thing. Really interested in the Sine board design (hybrid concept). I would love for someone to give a review on one. I hope all the new ventures can keep their head above water...

Scott,

i don't believe you did anything wrong by posting it... unless you are affiliated with the company and i am guessing not. besides, SINE should have known anyone could find it with the right key words and search time spent. SINE should have already told them not to post it up if they really had not wanted them to... or maybe their was something lost in a memo ;)

sine and humanoid look pretty lame to me.
slingshot was the first to venture into flex first of all. now company has stepped into the role and are doing a pretty good job, the reason for this is because they have randall harris, tino santori, one of the valdez brothers and now nicola butler.

^ don't forget Greg Necrason... and of course Justin Stevens (though he is known more for photography and video work) ^

(Message edited by wakerider111 on January 26, 2009)

No affiliation. Just another wake obsess'd user here.

Just checked out their site. Looks like they have some really cool ideas. The customization is awesome. Price is pretty steep though. I wish demoes were easier to arrange. Id love to demo all of these new/smaller brands (Company, Slingshot, Humanoid, Sine, even Gator). I bet I would find one I love and it would be cool to support an up and coming company vs uncle bob.

JBalla, can you elaborate on why you've decided that two of those brands are "lame" and two of them are not?

well david, the board shapes just don't look good at all, the graphic's blow, and if they plan on competing at all in the current market they should get a tiny bit more publicity, maybe somebody decent to rep their products. it just seems like they aren't even trying.

What is it about the board shapes that "don't look good at all?" And, more specifically, what is it about the Company and Slingshot shapes that make them so superior?

the bottom of the boards are flat, you can adjust what size of fins you want, or if you want fins for that matter. you wont a bunch of problems with the shape catching on sliders which has been a very big problem in the past. liquid force was smart and made a flat bottom board that has flex and removable fins.

i guess your speaking more for a RAIL board point of view JBalla? would i be right? if so, humanoid is almost flat... but i supose you already decided you did not like the graphics for that one

Flat bottom boards suck!! Flex or not if you stomp your landings on a flat bottom board it will hit like a ton of bricks! Sine is the first flex company that seems to be heading in the right direction. I think Humanoid also has bottom features, but I am not sure, if so, good on them also!

YA, humanoid has a spine and i think what looks like some major beveled edges? looks like the bevel starts a whole 2 inches in from the edge and transitions from there to the edge? but I could be wrong, it is just a pic

here is the WBM info on it. you can see the mild features on the white bottomed one better.



http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/655043.html

JBalla, so are you saying that all wakeboards (flex and non-flex) should have flat bottoms with different bolt-on fin options rather than the various channels, molded-in fins, stabilizers, chevrons and other bottom features that have been developed over the last 20 years?

He rides a sling...please forgive him for his bias opinion.

For the record..I havent ridden any of the 4 highly controversial brands YET, so I will keep an open mind until proven otherwise...aside from business plan/marketing etc yada yada...

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the interest in Sine, one way or another. I've read through a lot of the threads on WakeWorld and am excited to see you guys interested in our boards as well as flex in general.

I'm willing to answer any questions you may have as best I can, as promptly as I can. Things are starting to get pretty crazy this past week but that's pretty much been the norm for me for the past three years, anyways. No rest for the wicked is what my mom tells me.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Zach Horn

Sine

i understand where jballa is coming from though about fins kind of. how come 95 percent of surfers don't have channels on thier boards even though surfboards have had channels for a long time. im sure they all have one in thier quiver but look though a surfing mag. for the most part its all flat bottom boards. if somebody can help me out, i personally don't fully understand what having channels does though to make you have a softer landing. i know it doesn't make you cut harder because a fin can do that. i know that channels can be like half an inch deep so does the board just sink in half an inch and thats your soft landing? if so a flex board has a few inches of that. i heard at the san diego boat show that harris and a few others put custom carbon fiber stringers sideways to prevent all the torsional flex so it doesn't mess up thier pop when cutting hard. i wonder how having channels affects the side to side torsional flex compared to tip and tail. most people that snowboard know your side to side flex patterns are just as important as tip to tail. it seems like having channels might even make it flex more rail to rail because wherever the channels are it might bend extra which wouldn't be good.

really? comparing it to surfing? maybe we should put leashes on wakeboards and wakeskates like surfers do?

you don't need a leash for a wakeboard or wakeskate though unless you crash winching in a river. the only reason i said surfboard was because they ride across water so i thought they might have similar affects. salt water is probably different though.

By Joe Umali (dakid) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 1:13 am:

really? comparing it to surfing? maybe we should put leashes on wakeboards and wakeskates like surfers do?


Leashes on WAKEBOARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa

would love to hear some reviews on the sine boards! Iam really considering getting one. Not much selection when it comes to bigger boards.Is sine going to be coming out with bindings?

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quote:

By hsryan33 (hsryan33) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 1:04 am

how come 95 percent of surfers don't have channels on thier boards even though surfboards have had channels for a long time. im sure they all have one in thier quiver but look though a surfing mag. for the most part its all flat bottom boards

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I dont think you can see the bottom contour that well in a magazine pic. Surf boards dont have a pronounced molded fin ussually, but they will have a slight concave to them in the tail.

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quote:

i know that channels can be like half an inch deep so does the board just sink in half an inch and thats your soft landing?

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No. Its all about breaking the surface tension of the water. For example, belly flop vs diving on an angle...to some extent.

Hey Joe, did you take that SINE down from the nautique at the boat show and give it the ol hand flex test? Anything else noteworthy that you saw in person?

SINE if you're out there, are retailers going to carry your boards, or will you be primarily web based?

Got a crew of folks going out to demo the Sine this weekend.

Personally i hope they all have success but am i the only one who is getting blurred vision and splitting headaches with all the flex board posts?

there are so many of them cluttering up the regular daily discussions ,maybe dave should make a new thread/forum for just new board and bindings companys and or/flex board talk

Bill Montanye,

WOW SOME ONE ACTUALLY brought this thread back to its original intent. I agree a Board just for Flex Talk, I only brought this up out of pure fascination with the business side of this not the actual product. I knew product would be discussed but I am more interested in companies starting up in such a horrible economy. Much Like David Williams said, "they were all probably rolling forward with their business plans way before everything tanked, so it was probably just bad timing." That was the point of all this. Not what features the board had or how you can customize the boards. I simply wanted to discuss Business. Apparently that is not possible.

Andy,

I'll talk business. Unfortunately, this industry is just too small to support all these companies. Even if one of them comes out with a great new idea, it is too easy for the big guys to just steal it. My guess is they will be around for as long as they have money to support their losses. I hope I'm wrong. The only way to grow this sport is cable parks. And with the banks not willing to loan money, it is going to be very hard to build them.

yea ,i agree Brad

i think whats going to happen is out of these four flex companys ,one may still be here three years from now.The rest will either bow out and sell their plans and machines to ronix,hype,cwb,or lf just to get out even or for a small loss.If theres any success to this flex tech ,the big boys will jump on it and add this to their full lineup.

then the big boys will sell them faster and maybe cheaper.

anyway...

So Company is "doing a pretty good job" because they have a team..... I'm not for or against any particular company, and am interested in them all, but to base an opinion on a board or company off of their team? I mean you've got Pro's on the Chapparral Xtreme Team, they must make great wakeboats.

ok i now understand how its breaks the surface tension with the bellyflop annalogy. i was half joking about the leash but now that i think about it, it could be possible to loose your board in a river. just not likely haha. i still am curious about the rail to rail flexing going on though with flex boards. if two guys grab a slingshot board at each end and twist in opposite directions, the board rolls quite a bit. snowboard componies build thier boards with this in mind. i think i read somewhere about the sine board having a more solid center so my guess is it would not have that torsional flex much anyway.

I think that these new companies are great for the industry. New innovative ideas are usually a good thing. I hope they can make it work. I think they are going in the right direction with the bottom features, hybrid flex and other innovations they are bringing to our sport. Without SS, Company, Sine and Humanoid we would not have much to choose from in the way of boards and bindings. We would only have two hole designs and if we wanted flex we would have the Roam. We wouldn't have much of a decision to make when purchasing a board other than rocker, spine, shape and size.

I say good luck to all of the new companies.

Brad and Bill,

I think the big companies will steal ideas but they wont do it the same way. Like they wont copy the manufacturing process and materials because it will cost too much.

Erich Schmaltz of Integrity Wakeskates knows this. That is why he isnt afriad to post pictures of the process and even show the insides of the boards. Because if the other companies would try to make a board the same way they would have to have an insanely high price to keep their huge wakeboard margins. the smaller companies like Integrity are not looking for that huge margin. With the smaller companies you are actually getting what you pay for.

I keep using integrity as an exapmle because people try to copy them but cant do it right. in 2004 Integrity had a center weighting system with a special glass lay up so the board would spin on axis faster and smoother. the next couple years hyperlite advertised their new skates to have a center weighting system as well. but what they used was a bunch of staples thrown into the center of the board to ad weight.

so what im saying is i doubt the big companies are going to be using these highend materials and processes like Slingshot's core or Sine's flex fins for a while. they know they have their name to keep people coming back.

i think its going to be more pushed in the direction of snowboarding with regards to choice. Maybe for once it wont be about the big 3-5 brands. The best snowboards ive ever ridden were made in lil hole in the wall places without a ton of advertising. My other reason for the link is that the technology of the two sports are getting closer. Boots are one example. But flex boards without naming any names have some direct connections to snowboard mfgs. Sure joyride tried this a few years ago as well as i believe hyperlite, neptune (avalanche) and others. The difference is that those were foam boards. Now we are looking at more wood and some foam to pop out a board that if you cut the edges down on you could snowboard on.

Right now im all about underdogs with this economy. And 2 of the 3 new companies will be that i think. I definately wouldnt count out these young companies though. They will most likely produce way fewer boards, which means less leftovers for the shops. Way less marketing. Push the sport from a real grassroots level. Both surf and snow have these small mfg. and i think its time wake does too if the sport is willing to support new ideas

I hope these companies make it as well. All I'm saying is the wakeboard market is currently too small. A small percentage of the snowboard market is still a lot of money, that's not the case in wakeboarding. And even with wakeboarding being a small market, what percentage of that market just buys cheap combos? These new companies are marketing to the serious rider. There just aren't many of them out there.

If cable parks start opening all around the country though, I think we'll see even more board company start ups. Everyone snowboards because you don't have to own a $70,000 boat. Cable parks can have the same effect.

This is awesome, Sine is doing it different than everyone else, in almost every category of the business! As for economy yeah it's been in the works for a while... For all of you who want to learn more about Sine send messages to the contact and they'll get back to you as soon as possible! Most likely you'll be talking to the creator too... not some dude answering emails.

Tom, are you affiliated with Sine?

Not in any business sense... I am friends of the creator, and trying to help with some of these discussions.

I would really be interested in a couple of reviews on the Sine as well as Humanoid ie,how it rides, spins, landings, etc. If someone rides one please give a review. I actually put a lot of stock in people's experiences on these forums...

In order for others to better digest your "advice," it would be helpful to make them aware of your affiliation. It might be a good idea to include it in your profile or mention it when you comment on your friend's product.

I don't mean to pick on you, but we actually have a bit of a problem on the discussion with people that are affiliated with a company coming on here and dispensing their thoughts without making their affiliations known. Obviously, readers are going to interpret advice from a friend of the owner a little bit differently than advice from a non-affiliated party that has no interest in the success or failure of the company.

Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just trying to uphold the integrity of the discussions. Thanks!

Guys,
Chill out. Tom is trying to get you to notice that Andy's post is about discussing the start up companies and the risk involved. This includes ideas, experiments, observation, money.

We had Zac Horn from Sine offer to answer questions. None of you knuckle heads even noticed.

Why do you bother to jump on a post and head in a different direction and then jump on someone else who doesn't follow you.

This WAS a cool post and could have been very educational if all the different manufactures had chimed in with some really cool information about how they were doing.

Zac, thank you for the offer, sorry this group had no interest. What a downer for the site. }

Andy N.

I read 3-4 questions in your topic, as i would see and interpret them:
1. Is anyone else shocked by the number (3) of new companies popping up despite economic woes?
2. similar to question 1 in reguards to making it through their infancy, with a statement about wakeskate companies being an exception.
3. a rather broad question, "What Changed" with statements about already establishing the big guys I could not sense anything about business and economy except that it is in the same paragraph as the others above.

4. another broad question, "any one know anything about the newest, Sine?" also in its own little paragraph.

NOW, i am in no way dissing you, and i am in now way trying to grade you like a teacher grading an essay, i am just trying to make sense of things AND most importantly i am trying to save myself (and maybe others) from any more drama. I feel like i have been rolled over along with all these recent debates, probably do to my flex-reputation, but i will accept that graciously. Anyway, the whole flex thing has really been taking a beating for better and for worse, especially because of the rise and progression of more flex-(related) stuff. It is evident even in today's WW poll. 25% could care less, 40% know little to nothing and want to know more, and the rest are those who have tried it (with no mention of liking or disliking)

further responses to question 2:
I hope that all of them progress past infancy. i can't say there would be too many people that would wish doom on any company, unless you were affiliated with a competing company... even then, that is mean, but i guess it is "just business"

I think company has a good shot at surviving just because of the names established, but Humanoid and Sine and soo new to us yet we don't really know of any names and what names may join in the recent future. though slingshot was not really listed, i'd say they are pretty new too and i think they will survive due to their kite line too. Now if Hu2 or SINE have secondary companies/appendages, that would help too. I suppose Co. has the REMOTE wakeskate company as an appendage? so that would help too i think? if they really are related?

Further responses to 3:
What changed? well when it comes to a financial question?... i'd say take these guys up on it and go ask them on their respective sites and see how they respond, what are their goals considering the economy? or even how were their goals changed after the slump?

what changed? well... take the exception of wakeskate companies that you mentioned for example. it spawned a whole new branch from wakeboarding. Cassette, for a while held a monopoly so to speak on wakeskates as a specific wakeskate company especially. Cassette had something different and was FOCUSED on it. similar to what Mitch said, it would cost extra funds and time for the established big wake companies to devote more to wakeskating then they were already doing, at least not like an independent company. other people saw room in this growing sport and market and in crept... or rather swarmed the other wakeskate specific companies

AND NOW, flex is spawning a new branch (flex boards and rail boards) like wakeskating... or rather more of a splinter... or something between a splinter and a branch. Slingshot would be = to Cassette in this era. Slingshot held a monopoly on flex. 2008-2009 is the swarm period for flex. people are seeing it is being "monopolized" and want a piece of that chunk at an early start before it gets divided up too small. It would cost the big companies more to start additional things, except for maybe LF, because they already have a kit line that they can tap into similar to slingshot... and they are doing that but not rapidly and are not branching it out into a separate thing like slingshot has done, and it is probably a little late now for that if they wanted to... more effectively that is, IMO.

Last thing:
The last thing i have to say is linking this all back to the readers poll today. SOO about 33% of WW have riden flexboard be it one or more unspecified models right? and these are people with no specified preference. some could hate it and some could love it right? soo, lets just say half LOVE it and HALF HATE it just to play with #s and to not be biased to flexers or non-flexers
that means that this new tech and these new companies are riding on 16-17% of people out there (based on WW readers) who are already established FLEX LOVERS and then balancing on the questionable potential converts from the 40% who have no flex experience but want to try. lets say half of those try and love it (again just for play and so i am not biased to either flexers or traditionals). Now we find ourselves with a total of about 37% of the population supporting flex. then divide that into 4 parts for each flex-board company. each company will be riding on a little less than 10% of the population... +\- (but this is only including the flex-specific companies and trying to be unbiased from the results of a small survey on WW)

could this % +\- be enough to carry these guys on?

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quote:

This WAS a cool post and could have been very educational if all the different manufactures had chimed in with some really cool information about how they were doing.

Zac, thank you for the offer, sorry this group had no interest. What a downer for the site.

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I asked him an easy question directly, that also relates to conducting business and how to access Sine product. Hopefully he was out dialing in something on the lake and didnt get a chance to respond today, which is fine by me.

Internet forums are kind of a catch 22 for a new company. Anything they contribute gets scrutinized to the enth degree. Also there's a fine line between marketing/promotion/free advertising and general discussion.

I would bet that each company has their plate full as far as trying to get everything together to make it to market, w/o trying to keep up with a forum. If they chime in cool, if not, I bet they're busy.

(Message edited by phxwakeguy on January 27, 2009)

maybe it was tom or zach or i dont know if any of them said specifically about answering questions ON THE FORUM but i did read somewhere about submitting questions ON THEIR SITE...???

(Message edited by wakerider111 on January 27, 2009)

Oh and how about the myspace friend request I received for http://www.wakeology.com/

Wakeology Wakeboards. I don't know anything about them really. Just a friend request on myspace.

there is a facebook account for them too.
i see shannon Best, keith Lidberg, Chad Sharpe, on the friend list to name a few... not that that means anything particular... ohh never mind, found some photos of team members here http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=6698 9563
Web site is under construction

wakeboards AND wakeskates!

(Message edited by wakerider111 on January 27, 2009)

Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)

I took that as a Dis, thanks-

My apologies for the delayed response.

Scott, since you were first, I'll go ahead and get to your question. We will not be opening up any dealers at the moment so web ordering is the way to go.

We will be coming up to the Northwest as everything begins to thaw out this spring for a demo tour. Stay tuned for details on the website. If you can't wait until then, go ahead and contact me directly and I'll try and arrange a private demo.

It is a little strange how many new companies have popped up this year, especially with the economy. I would be lying if I said it didn't give me pause. But there are always different ways to look at the situation. I tend to see it in a slightly brighter light than most perhaps. As you can see, currently there is a strong push for flex or hybrid flex technology. Having more companies devote their resources in this direction perhaps opens the minds of those who have not yet tried it; growing our market share. Jeremy Byrom, I believe, mentioned something along these lines.

To respond to a few of the other comments- this has not been a half-hazard, jump on the band wagon approach on our end. We have been working on our product for a little over three years now and nearly launched last spring but decided our product needed more refining. It was about two years ago when we were riding the first versions of our flex boards. It has been difficult for us to watch the past few companies take off as market leaders in the flex movement while we quietly refined our product.

At the end of the day, we are an extremely small startup with big dreams. We have had an enormous response this past week, thank you very much.

Bear with me if I lag slightly on my responses. I do read all of the posts and will try and answer or respond to comments as best I can.

Thanks and here's to a bright '09,

Zach Horn

SINE

I, as well as most others, are very interested in your product and can't wait to see how it all works out. What is very intriguing to me, and I am not questioning your expertise at all, but when making a custom board what has given you the knowledge and experience to know what fits/works best for a rider, and how exactly have you come to become an expert at customizing boards? I'm sure you know board construction in and out, but how do you transfer that to pairing and customizing it up with a riders' traits and desires. Good luck and keep it up.

I just think it is cool to see the difference in marketing approaches. You have Company coming out strong with a load of hype and SS technology. And then you've got Sine, developing and building unique technology before they introduce to market. I guess we'll be able to see if hype or substance flies in the wakeboard industry!

As for Humanoid, isn't the driving force behind that Kyle Schmidt? Talk about a man with a ton of experience and know how! I hope they all succeed!!

checked out sine's site and have to say im impressed. If i could afford a board like that i KNOW id have one in my quiver of boards. People may hate on flex or hybrids or whatever you wanna call it (come to think of it, doesnt the ford flex come in a hybrid...thats funny)anyways i have to say the new innovations are pumping me up to ride again. The past year for me wakeboarding just hasnt done it for me. But the thought of smaller companies of people like you and me making boards has me wanting to maybe refocus my riding and what im still capable of. Our sport needs this, and if humanoid and sine come through as small companies, id be pumped for our sport again.

almost forgot about Shapiro's GRIND-WATER. I know it is more of a wake surf and water sports accessories brand/company, but they are just as new and are relatively in the same boat?