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Old     (wakeboard_pittsburgh)      Join Date: Jul 2008       09-29-2010, 7:40 AM Reply   
I know that this has been going on in other areas around the country. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with this?

I woke up this morning to an email from the owner of High Mountain Sports down in Deep Creek Lake, Maryland. Attached was an email from the Maryland Boating Advisory Committee which advises the Secretary of the Department of Natural Resources.

Apparently the Maryland Boating Advisory Committee is looking to pass a initiative to have some control over Wakeboarding Vessels in the state of Maryland. As of earlier this week, the proposal reads:

08.18.01.09 A person may not operate a vessel that is carrying temporary ballast or employing a mechanical device for the purpose of creating a wake larger than the vessel would create when operated with out the ballast or employed mechanical device at the same speed in similar sea state in an area that is: (1) less than 800 yards in width; or (2) subject to a speed limit, at any time

I posted a PDF and the contact information for the person writing the bill here: http://wakeboardpittsburgh.com/maryl...-wakeboarding/

I just got this information so I really don’t know any details yet. All I know is that 800 yards is huge! That is eight full football fields wide. This would basically ban wakeboarding in all but two areas in Deep Creek Lake (which is only an hour from Pittsburgh and a popular vacation spot for a lot of wakeboarders), not to mention most popular wakeboarding spots throughout the state.

Please help with any suggestions or thoughts?
Old     (csaidler)      Join Date: Aug 2010       09-29-2010, 7:56 AM Reply   
grass roots campaign guy. get with the boat dealers, boarders, boardshops. Send emails, visit them in person and let them know whats going on. get together and start writing letters.
Old     (benbuchholz)      Join Date: Oct 2009       09-29-2010, 10:01 AM Reply   
How does this make any sense? I'm assuming this is a shot to stop shoreline erosion due to the large wakes? What does ballast have anything to do with wake size, because I'm sure there are plenty of boats on those lakes out there that put out larger wakes, no ballast. I don't see this goin anywhere, seems too tough to enforce. But do what was said above. Letters, meetings, etc. Make a big statement right away and I think they'll see what theyre up against.
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-29-2010, 10:09 AM Reply   
The problem is too many of us have that mind set, when in reality normal joe schmoe society doesn't care that bigger boats make bigger wakes, they're understandably bigger. Unfortunately this will likely be a trend, and the market that has allowed the wakeboat industry to thrive will also be it's worst enemy. Wakeboat sales increase due to popularity of the boat, sound systems, ballast, etc, when those are the majority of what piss people off, and will lead to many of the things being banned.

Hopefully a "Pro" can step up and make this get a larger following. As well, both USA Waterski and WWA have programs set up to facilitate your fighting this, contact them as well.
Old     (benbuchholz)      Join Date: Oct 2009       09-29-2010, 10:31 AM Reply   
That's true, good point. I never really thought of it that way. But I would see sound systems being way more of a reason for pissing people off than ballasts. I guess "banning loud sound systems" wouldn't be as effective as going after ballasts. Still, these ban attempts seem mainly environmental to me.

How have these attempts ended up in the other states, does anyone have a good knowledge of it? It'd be interesting to see how they turned out, and what, if any, actions were taken to try and stop it.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-29-2010, 12:54 PM Reply   
It would probably be good to come up with a fund (from donations, fundraisers, etc.) to hire an attorney. That would definitely show the committee that you guys are going to fight this thing tooth and nail.
Old     (homedawg678)      Join Date: Jan 2007       09-29-2010, 1:18 PM Reply   
Uh oh. I live in Maryland!
Old     (rpinto)      Join Date: Jan 2010       09-29-2010, 2:46 PM Reply   
I think Collin Harrington is originally from Maryland. Maybe he could be your pro voice to help put the brakes on this. I think he is recovering from ACL surgery so maybe it would be a good time to catch him.
Old     (skyski1)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-29-2010, 10:54 PM Reply   
A quick story to illustrate what can happen while you sleep.
A home owner association's president pissed off a contractor who had done some work for the HOA. Said contractor who owns an open header jet boat grabbed a few of his jet boat buddies and ran laps around the HOA dudes cove very early on a Sunday morning. Legal, but rude and incredibly stupid. The politically connected HOA dude yanks some chains and gets the waterfront owners all jazzed about noise and speed limits. He sends out a survey and uses word games to make it look like a great majority of the owners would support noise and speed restrictions. He said 70% of those surveyed would like to see the law enacted. What he should have said is that only a small percentage of the surveys were returned, and of those who responded, 70% were in favor. HOA guy gets to the right power people and gets the ball rolling. He referenced other lakes nearby that had already put noise and speed limits into effect.
Now the jet boaters are alarmed. They form an association to fight the new law. They looked deeper and found that 10 years ago a proposal was floated that would restrict water skiing to the main channel of the lake only. They start talking with the wakeboarders, skiers, ect, and convince them that if the speed and noise law goes into effect, it will pave the way for the owners who do not like loud music and big wakes to enact laws to banish wake boats . The jet boaters were proactive and most of them installed mufflers right away. They also made it a point to not cruise in the same area for too long. The wakeboarders gave money to help fight new legislation and some of them cranked back on the tunes. The boater's association also took on a do gooder role by sponsoring boater's safety classes and donating to a fund for new water cop boats. This was a battle between ONE pissed off, politically savy, and well connected HOA Pres. and an equally savy bunch of boaters. The boaters won.......for now. If the boaters had not organized and rallied, it was very possible that pissing off the wrong guy could have had a dramatic effect on how we are allowed to use our lake. Yes, just one guy got the whole thing started.
As a Marylander, I urge all of you to take this thing seriously and get involved. If you do not get involved because you don't ride in Maryland ( I don't) they may be looking at your lake next. Once a ball like this gets rolling, it just picks up speed.

Last edited by skyski1; 09-29-2010 at 10:58 PM. Reason: typo
Old     (myroad)      Join Date: Jul 2010       09-30-2010, 12:20 PM Reply   
This can and will happen if something is not done to counter act the people starting these initiatives. Already happened in Portland Or. It is very hard to enforce as admitted by the Sheriff's but that doesn't mean it wont be. I believe that this has absolutely nothing to do with environment and erosion but more so who has pissed off who! Whether it be loud obscene steroes or drunken shenanigans, someone has pissed off someone in/with power. Don't know all the details but maybe someone from PDXwake can chime in.
Old     (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       10-01-2010, 8:12 AM Reply   
It doesent ban the sport of wakeboarding itself does it? Looks like it bans wake enhancing devices?
Old     (benbuchholz)      Join Date: Oct 2009       10-01-2010, 9:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by myroad View Post
This can and will happen if something is not done to counter act the people starting these initiatives. Already happened in Portland Or. It is very hard to enforce as admitted by the Sheriff's but that doesn't mean it wont be. I believe that this has absolutely nothing to do with environment and erosion but more so who has pissed off who! Whether it be loud obscene steroes or drunken shenanigans, someone has pissed off someone in/with power. Don't know all the details but maybe someone from PDXwake can chime in.
See thats what doesn't make sense to me. If it's not about shore erosion, and instead about loud stereos and drunken party boats, why not make laws against....what else.... loud stereos and drunken party boats. Make a law saying your music can't louder than a certain level. (Audible from 100 yds, 200 yds, etc.). Making a law against ballast doesnt seem to make sense if they're trying to get the loud sound systems and drunks off the lake. Say it does get passed, and ballasts aren't allowed. What's going to happen? People aren't going to move from MD or stop riding, they're going to ride without ballasts. There is still going to be loud stereo systems and the likes, everything that pissed off the people in the first place.
Old     (JDubs)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-01-2010, 9:41 AM Reply   
My arguing point as a wakeboarder would be to look at how many wakeboats there are in Maryland. Figure an average how many gallons of fuel thy burn in a year. Then figure on average how much money that is per year. Then figure how much that is in tax dollars spent each year because of wakeboarding. You could also include boat registration and launching fees and anything else I may be missing. So, point being, why would you want to decrease the amount of money being spent in a poor economy as this because of something so minor.
Old     (skyski1)      Join Date: Jan 2008       10-01-2010, 11:00 AM Reply   
I'll bring lawyers, guns, and money. Just tell me where and when.
Old     (thesack)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-01-2010, 12:57 PM Reply   
In Oregon what happened was that a select few people had the ear of the Governor and had him push the wake enhancing device ban on the upper Willamette through. (The governor selects and appoints the people who sit on the State Marine Board). Even though at the meetings leading up to the vote the majority of people at those meetings were against the ban. The Governor had his way again in on the Lower Willamette, where the OSMB voted against proposed changes, but a few months later the Governors office request that they rethink and revote on the ruling.

OAR 250-020-0032 Boat Operations:
(5) On the Willamette River from the Hwy 219 Bridge at RM 48.5 to the upper end of Willow Island at RM 31.5, the following rules apply:
(a) No person shall operate a motorboat at a speed in excess of a "Slow -- No Wake" maximum 5 mph speed within 100 feet of private docks, boathouses or moorages legally permitted by the Oregon Department of State Lands.
(b) Beginning January 1, 2010, no person shall use wake-enhancing devices, including ballast tanks, wedges or hydrofoils or other mechanical devices, or un-even loading of persons or gear, to artificially operate bow-high.

Note that it says that you can not use WED's to artifically operate bow high. I know when I am fully sacked out that I am riding bow low. Realistically the law is keeping you from surfing.

Best thing you can do is get peple involved, and just get the word out there about the proposal. Make sure that when you go to the hearings that you present logical argurments as to why this should not be done, and back them up with factual support. Good Luck.
Old     (wakeboard_pittsburgh)      Join Date: Jul 2008       10-21-2010, 6:45 AM Reply   
Thanks for the ideas. Unfortunately I do not live in Maryland so there is not much I can do but inform the people I know that live there.

Here is a little more background to the story that I got yesterday from a committee member.

Quote:
This is what I understand about the beginning of this ugly thing....
During the summer season a wakeboard boat (or several not sure) frequents a couple of creeks off the Severn River near Annapolis. It effectively messes up the water in one creek and moves to the next. In addition to this alleged bad behavior (nothing illegal other than not being resposnsible for your wake or possibly being closer than 100ft from any fixed object or shore), a boat was swamped by an alleged wakeboard boat and people were injured &/or thrown from the boat. The Natural Resource Police were not notified and no report was filed to my knowledge (I have asked) but photos of the swamping are evidently out there. A property owner along one of the creeks went to his state representative who then got a meeting with the Secretarty of the Dept Natural Resources. Now the Secretary is adamant about getting a regulation in the books for next season.
I am a water skier and have numerous run-ins with wakeboarders but I can't see this as a good way of dealing with some people who are disregarding other boaters. Fine them for destructive wake but don't outlaw the sport! 800yds is a huge space. I have asked the DNR how much water will be lost by this regulation and haven't gotten an answer. I was basically told that this was going to happen and this was a tame version.
The regulation wording is specific to impact only wakeboard boats. Too many big cruisers on the Severn River and the perceived problem is 'poorly behaving youngsters' wakeboarding with loud music.
Old     (amyskis6)      Join Date: Oct 2010       10-23-2010, 8:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyski1 View Post
I'll bring lawyers, guns, and money. Just tell me where and when.
My name is Amy Craig and I am on the Boat Act Advisory Cmte.(BAAC), where this regulation is starting. I do not agree with this regulation. As many have stated, it is not dealing with the problem they are asserting (dangerous/ destructive wake which causes safety concerns for other boaters or shore erosion-wake enhancing devices are not the sole factor here).
The BAAC has a meeting November 4th in Edgewater, MD -near Annapolis. The wakeboarding regulation is not on the agenda at this point but it has been discuss after the public portion of previous meetings. I do not think they will allow comments on the possible wakeboard regulation until there has been a public notice & press release. Until that time, I am trying to organize people to present factual information from the wakeboarders stand point and also data found that doesn't support the assertion that these boats and WED are the issue. If you can help, I would greatly appreciate it. I seem to be the only voice for the wakeboarders. The irony is that I am a waterskier and want the same calm water the boarders want!
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       10-23-2010, 9:28 AM Reply   
Would houseboats and cabin cruisers have to adhere to the 800 yd limit? Those wakes can be much more "devastating" than a wake boat.
Old     (amyskis6)      Join Date: Oct 2010       10-23-2010, 3:24 PM Reply   
No, unless they carry ballast or have a wake enhancing mechanical device. That is why this really is a wakeboarding regulation dressed up to look like it is not specific to the sport....in my opinion.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       10-25-2010, 2:31 PM Reply   
Then it seems that you would have a valid argument. If they are going to ban wake-enhancing devices within 800 yds, they would have to essentially ban any boat that creates a sizable wake (basically anything but a canoe).
Old     (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-26-2010, 6:57 AM Reply   
I posted this thread over in the wakesurfing section.

You should search the old surfing threads as us old guys who surf now have done a bunch of research to support our sport. Like the different energy produced by surfing and wakeboarding waves and the effects on erosion. I think the conclusion supports the overall size/displacement of the vessel and speed determines the energy of the wave, thus a 10klb cruiser is worse than a 4klb boat with 2klbs ballast.

I grew up skiing on Deep Creek and as sports evolve, the old people on the lake with houses are usually the ones driving such laws (not to mention they are the age group in political positions). Good luck on your fight.
Old    SamIngram            10-26-2010, 8:08 AM Reply   
This may or may not help at the present time, but it will help eventually. The best way to stop this crap is by becoming an insider and turning the system in on itself.


Become a Precinct Committeeman
Old     (Cajun_Misfit)      Join Date: Jun 2010       10-26-2010, 9:06 AM Reply   
Ok from a legal stand point they can't do anything about putting the boat at capacity! Put 8 to 10 people in the boat and BOOM BALLAST... but then again they may pass a law next that limits you to 2 people in a boat!

There is deffinately more to this story... erosion can be slowed/fixed with bulkheads if it is someone's property or really becoming a problem

And might I add that this is the biggest CROCK OF S*** ive ever seen!

GOOD LUCK!!!
Old     (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       10-26-2010, 4:42 PM Reply   
if anyone can point out threads with useful information it would be a big help. We have just started hearing the rumblings of banning wakeboarding and wake surfing in austin. I'd like to have some data to head this off early.

Ill be searching the threads but any help is appreciated.

as for this maryland thing, its pretty sad, its not even about erosion. a planker wants to keep the good water to himself. really really sad.
Old     (KGar11)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-26-2010, 6:22 PM Reply   
Help us. Maryland needs wakeboarding
Old     (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       10-26-2010, 7:07 PM Reply   
hey dave,

is this somethign that wakeworld can help out with? maybe provide a location to store documents, supporting arguments and tactics to deal with the growing problem of wakeboarding legislation? sure would be nice to get an organized voice.

thanks
Old     (jcollinge)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-17-2010, 11:10 AM Reply   
There have been some discussions on this here in Austin at the City Council level. Mostly because the older home owners do not want a new ordinance that changes the bulk head requirements (45 degrees natural). The also hate wake-anything and loud music. Last year a new noise ordinance was passed limiting sound distance to 100ft. Ya, that was smart. I can hear music from an iPod through headphones at 200ft. So I've been very busy for the past two weeks doing research so we get ahead of it before it becomes an initiative at the City level. Here is what I've done...

- Contacted Larry Meddock at WSIA who provided guidance on what we should do short term. He asked me to reach out to boat dealers and have them engage manufacturers.

- Contacted all local dealers and asked them engage with the manufacturers. They will in turn engage WSIA (they are working now in Maryland)


- Developed an online petition for local Austinites to sign asking that the City Council strike down any ordinance or rule that limits or bans WED's

- Attendance at all City Council and Parks Dept meetings. The Parks Dept. defines rules/ordinances for the local lakes including Lake Austin. There is a meeting tomorrow to discuss the bulkhead issue.

- Engaged a local radio station (101x) to be able to discuss this issue on the radio with the mayor (this is in my back pocket for now unless things start to progress)

- Leveraged Facebook and Twitter to expose the issue to a wider audience and provided a link to the petition mentioned above. It's now viral and interested people will attend the city meetings

- Reached out to state level gov't and educate them on the situation and different stakeholders views

Additionally, I've gotten educated on the real issues related to boating safety and environmental issues. Here is a link to the USCG's 2009 report. Clearly, the top 5 issues are not related to wake size.

http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/...ations/394.PDF

Please keep us up to date and let us know how it's going. I know the WSIA was up there last week.

James
Old     (jcollinge)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-17-2010, 11:21 AM Reply   
And I echo what Jeff posted. Would be good to have a resource area for all the available info and where to get help. It took me days with Google to figure who did what where and what studys/reports were available.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-18-2010, 4:37 AM Reply   
What if some of you guys that are facing potential restrictions tried to do something to reach out to the community. Let's face it, the majority of people that don't have a boat or use the lake don't give a crap one way or the other, but if wakeboarders are portrayed as punks that cruise around playing profanity-laced music, this isn't going to gain much favor in the public's eye and may persuade someone to vote against you. So what if you got a some other riders to get together and maybe pick up trash around a stretch of the lake, or maybe volunteer at the Boys or Girls Club, etc.? Invite your local news station or paper to come out and cover the event.
Old     (jcollinge)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-18-2010, 5:43 AM Reply   
I know we used to do this in the past at a local park that's by the lake. Unfortunately, this was never enough....
Old     (jcollinge)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-24-2010, 8:41 AM Reply   
Any update on this in Maryland?
Old     (black_ops_09)      Join Date: May 2009       11-24-2010, 10:13 AM Reply   
I'd just move to Calie, then you could wakeboard all year long..ha

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