Diesel X-Star & X-80

I just got this information from Mastry Engine Center. They installed and tested a Yanmar diesel engine in an X-80 and X-Star. I figured some people might be interested in an X-Star that burns 2.0gph at wakeboard speeds. The pictures are file photos and not photos of the actual boat but you get the point. I asked about smell and heat being an issue. They say the engines run clean with no smoke or adverse smell and engine temp stays around 170-180. I told them to put one in a Super Air and we have a deal. Pretty cool if you ask me. http://www.mastry.com/

Diesel X-Star 23XStar.pdf (86.0 k)

Diesel X-80 28Maristar.pdf (75.8 k)

This has always been a great idea but a few problems always arise hopefully someone cna get one going and offer it.

OH SHEET!!! sign me up! 2 gph?!? that sure beats 6-9.

man that would be incredible.

(Message edited by madchild1 on September 07, 2005)

On the 28, does it say 0-38 in 21 seconds? If so you can keep it.

That's the one thing I noticed too. The idle to 3000 RPM (28.9 mph) at 4.5 seconds is fast, but I'm not sure that means 3000 RPM on a plane at 28.9 mph. I want to get out on one for sure.

It looks like they tested with no ballast and light fuel tank. my boat would hit 22.5 at 2400 rpm also like that, but weight it down and throw on a better prop and bigger engine (like most current boats) and you'll be up around 3200-3600 rpm at 22.5 and you are up to 7-12 gph. I think the benifits won't be so much in fuel savings but longevity. Weight it down all you want and it should still run forever.

how many marinas on lakes and the delta carry diesel?

I would expect the diesel to be designed with the right prop and reduction ratio to run at less RPMs at speed because of the added torque from the diesel engine. I may be wrong but I'd expect marginally better fuel economy when weighted as compared to gas. I agree with the longevity though, however gas boats when taken care of seem to outlast the owners. I see the perks of diesel being a much better hole shot, and economy. Is it going to be worth the price, who knows I just thought it was kinda cool to see that the someone is doing it. Now who's going to buy one and let us know how it works out?

you could put a turbo kit on it to spin more rpms

Yeah, with diesel torque, prop selection should be easy. You can bet they will have it dialed. Also, the extra weight of the diesel will be a big + in the wake dept. J-Rod is right, just need to get the fuel to the marinas...

In jersey every marina carries diesel...benefits of being on the coast.

This would be totally killer if they get it to work.
Some thoughts...
4000RPM is REALLY high for a diesel...the PS does what about 3400 and that's redline? With a diesel you don't need a lot of rpm's...this would allow us to throw a huge prop on that thing and possibly get even further benefits.

here a link to the specs of the motor in the XStar
http://www.mastry.com/products/yanmarengine_6lpastp.html

This is really about torque, Have a friend that had a Nauti SA with the 500cu.in Big Block in it...we had that thing loaded, factory ballast with 2500lbs (5x500lb sacs) 4 guys and a full tank of fuel. Never needed to go over 2500rpm to get it on a plane and run at 23mph. Ran all day (6hours) and only used 3/4tank. It was all about the torque, we just didn't need to run high rpm's with that motor. The wake was MASSIVE...ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE, was actually hard to hit it was so solid...but man it was a fun day.

Just my $.02

j-rod, Disco Bay marina has diesel for all the yachts there and a couple places near stockton too.

kg, about your buddy's nauti, sounds like a load 'a' crap only using 1/4 tank.

Freeboozeforall - I think if you read his post again you will see that he used 3/4 of tank of gas, not 1/4.

If you think about what a tow boat actually does, the diesel would be a PERFECT fit.
Idle ALL day long, using very little fuel, have HUGE amounts of torque for instant planing, bigger, slower turning prop, additional weight in the back of the boat where people add weight anyway.
Put one of those in an X-45 or equivalent, and you would have one hell of a tow rig!

elo-Turbo's do not add RPM, only boost and additional fuel for increased acceleration and torque.

There are a few offshore go-fast boats turning to diesel power with incredible results. With the high cost of fuel these days, I wouldn't be surprised to see that market boom.

Hey Guys, Well here we go with the facts and answers to all of your questions and concerns. The boats we have setup are designed for wakeboarding. Our goal is to introduce a new idea into the industry that can benefit all. Todays Diesel's burn extremely clean and produce less carbon emissions than gas engines. The engine we used in testing is approximately 150lbs. more torque than a big block and can handle large ballast loads working the engine much less. With the correct gear ratio and prop. I can make these boats jump out of the water and cruise at 19-21mph throwing a huge wake. We have some new ideas to make this setup even better. Be on the lookout for future postings and tests.

There are two large issues that currently hold this back (and several smaller ones). One is the weight of the engine tested and how it affects the passenger weight rating of the boat. Diesels that produce the needed amount of torque/power (along with the heavier duty drive systems) are heavier than their gasoline counter parts. Second, is the cost. Using current production volumes it is estimated that manufactures cost would be near $20K for a turbo diesel. Add the mark-up and you can see where this is headed.

Yes diesels are more efficient and would consume much less fuel. They would also incur less maintenance cost and would last forever. They also do not produce CO so there is another advantage. However if you factor in the increased cost of the engine vs. the savings (using current fuel costs) the difference using the technology today is not recoverable (given the number of hours a ski/wake boat is used).

The total weight of a bobtail 8.1GM is 1130lbs. compared to the Yanmar 315 is 899lbs. The Diesel is much lighter so I don't forsee it effecting the passenger rating of the boat.

Zedz, everyone forgets about resale when talking about diesels up front costs though. This got brought up with diesel trucks a while back. If you buy a diesel F-350 for $5k more it'll take something like 90,000 miles for the fuel savings to surpass the $5k more you spend. What people don't look at is when you're looking to sell that diesel will be worth probably close to $5k more than the gas counterpart because of a higher resale value. In the big picture you have a higher up front cost, better economy, and higher resale value. If the advantages of a diesel powerplants catch on with boats, the resale will be similar to diesel trucks. The up front hit is even easier to take with boats because you can finance up to 15 years versus 6 years with a boat. In the bigger wakeboard boats I could really see this as an advantage.

It was my understanding that the 315 was deemed to small for the application (Pro ballasted X-Star). The weight I am referring to was during testing of a DuraMax not the Yanmar.

The issue of cost still remains, as well as fitting a prop under the boat that will pull the required loads as well as achieve a marketable cruising speed (pocket boat maybe?).

You could also looking at using BioDiesel fuel in it for a whopping $.70 a gallon

Ryan, good point, however if you have a higher up front cost wouldn't you expect higher resale? If you took that $5K in your example and invested it for the term (say 5 years) at 8% it would be worth $7347; at 10% its $8053. In your example of a boat the numbers grow...8% for 15 year is $15,861 and 10%is $20,886. While the cost of financing the engine 15 years (5K example over 15 years at 7.5%) $8500.

Not tiring to argue with you. This has been and is being looked at, but the equation is not a simple one

A few of the issues that I can see are:

1. How can you mount the engine with enough vibration dampening built into the mounts yet not affect the shaft alignment?
2. Will the vibration be amplified on a boat?
3. Noise levels?
4. I don't see buying the fuel as a huge issue, for the savings most of us would gladly carry some gas to the boat.
5. The savings will never be worth it on economy alone...even at five bucks a gallon.
6. This may be the biggest issue....if it is true that they are close to producing a type of diesel fuel from coal, we will see a monumental shift to diesel engines. We in America have HUGE amounts of it.

My biggest worry was that if/when that happens that it would take the boat manufacturers decades to catch up. You can still buy a carburated engine in a 06 inboard!

This is a huge step forward, and may lead the way to being the preferred motor in the future.

However, in my opinion, this is all based on diesel becoming the preferred fuel type in passenger cars as well.

We will see.

i cant see any of your vibration issues being impossible to address, they have been putting diesel engines in crusers and houseboats for years directdrive and vdrive alike with good results.

the other bonus i would see is when you are filling up it will cost you less each time as your not consuming as much.

Im getting 20mpg in my dieseltruck and 37 in my diesel car. Sure im 15 cents a gallon more right now but soon ill be making my own fuel and going of the grid as far as purchasing fuel is concerned.

I say go for it, man a dmax engine in my boat sure would be cool! 325hp 605lb feet torque!

If you wanted you could just make your own Diesel fuel out of reclaimed frying oil from fast food joints and produce it out of your own back yard.

Under load a diesel will always get better fuel mileage. My grandpa gets 7-8mpg in his 40,000lb motor home with a flat front end at 70-75mph with the "Cummins® ISX-525 HP Engine; Torque: 1,650 lbs./ft.; 912 Cu.In. Engine Displacement"

My 6.0L gas chevy truck gets 9-10 pulling the boat at 1/4 the weight and not near the frontal area.

My concern would be having to listen to the turbo all day. I like turbo noise and all, but a weighted boat at 23mph pulls a hell of a load, the turbo would be spooled and the noise might start to be annoying.

But yeah, a duramax with a lake water aftercooler would kick ass. Or a chipped duramax. (450hp/800ft-lbs)

If you're going to dream of a diesel in a boat, dream of a real diesel, a Cummins.

I disagree about the turbo comment. A diesel would be loafing at wakeboarding loads.

Boomer,

I totally agree. Cummins ISB is lightweight, and breaths half as hard for the same power output as the Duramax. After market bolt ons would be a blast if it were in a wake boat. With about a grand you could be pushing 800hp/980tq and in the water eg's wouldn't be an issue. Talk about ballast. You could run 4 grand easy!

hey boomer,

i think duramax would be used because of the relationship indmar and all the other marine engine mfgs have with gm.

if i could choose any diesel, it would be caterpillar power!

Here is something else to consider: if any of the big three diesels get put into a boat people will hop them up, but how much more power can the transmissions and v-drive units take in these boats. Cant the take the 600-1000+ ftlbs of torque that people would be throwing at them. I personally would love to have a diesel in the boat for all the reasons mentioned above.

thoes engines are only like 10 thousand more dollars than a normal sbc

The vibration isn't a concern at all. The 6LP Yanmar is a much smoother engine than any gas or diesel developed today. I can run the engine in the boat with a cup of water on the top of the engine without a drop spilling. We use dual stage injection to squirt fuel into the cyclinders to reduce diesel knocking noise. Old school diesel use single stage injection that's why you hear that loud bang.

Albert, are they any price figures out yet for what an upgrade to this engine will cost? Are you working directly with Mastercraft dealers to offer this as an option or is this installation aftermarker? Have any other manufacturers other than Mastercraft expressed interest in using a diesel engine? Have you installed twin 6LPs in an X-80 yet?

This is a aftermarket setup I did. I am not sure if the wakeboard companies are looking to do this in the future. There has been talk of it. With enough demand from the customers anything is possible. We have yet to do this with twins but I would definatly like to try it if given the opportunity. If you were to buy the engine from a Yanmar Dealer you can expect to pay about $23,000 with the V-drive. If you were to buy a gas from a Dealer you would pay about $15,000-$16,000 for an 8.1. There are many other costs involved in installing a diesel over a gas that would require the installer to buy parts such as large sea-strainers, fuel filters, and the list goes on. Re-powering is my business and I am up for the challenge of doing diesel to gas swaps for people.

you would have a nice wake with a desiel engine even without ballast, because they are so much heavier than regular gas.

Here in the UK a diesel powered wakeboard boat would be fantastic. We have Gas prices that would make you guys cry, but we do have Red Diesel available, that is for non road and farm use, at a fraction of the cost. Mastercraft UK posted the option of a diesel engine, back in 04 but not heard anything since. The link is,

http://www.mastercraft.co.uk/news-main.htm

Go to the archive and the item is in that section.

chris brown, the v-drives are capable of handling MASSIVE amounts of power. just look at the top-fuel hydros and flatbottoms drag boats. they all use a v-drive configuration.