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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through September 04, 2009

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Old     (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-19-2009, 7:12 PM Reply   
Looking for a little help with my PP. 1500 lbs ballast and two passengers. PP thinks that it is overspeeding after my HS tricks so as I'm coming back for TS tricks, by the time I get to the wake it's washing out.

I know that the paddle wheel is offset which causes some overspeeding in turns (at least PP thinks it's overspeeding) but this is straight line driving.

I have to believe that it can be fixed with adjustments in the set-up. Has anyone troubleshot this on their Supra?

Help...this is driving me crazy.
Old     (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       08-19-2009, 7:46 PM Reply   
Turn your kdw numbers up an nn numbers down. I run mine at 240 and 65 I believe.
Old     (wakeborder5)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-19-2009, 7:51 PM Reply   
I was told by someone from PP to start off at, I believe, 170/90 for the KDW/NN. To access these settings on mine, I think you have to turn off PP and then hold the up and down buttons at the same time. Here's from PP what KDW and NN are:

KDW (Throttle Pull Rate) KDW can be changed using up or down keys. The higher the value, the more aggressive the control. Heavy boats may need higher values. Factory setting is about 80. Normal range is 80 200.

NN (Paddle wheel Filter Factor) NN is set at about 120. The higher the value the more filtering is done. If you feel you boat is surging a little too much, raise value by 20 or 30. If you feel the speed is slowly drifting around too much, try a lower value to tighten control.
Old     (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       08-20-2009, 6:58 AM Reply   
How fast are you riding at? I've always ridden a little faster to combat the problem.

Where is your paddlewheel located? Mine had to be moved twice, and is still not in the right spot ( IMO)--in right turns my speedo goes nuts.

PP works great on some boats and mediocre on others....mine is mediocre on this boat.

I'm at 180kdw and 85nn
Old     (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       08-20-2009, 7:01 AM Reply   
Jon, I've tried PP settings like you mentioned and my boat won't go past about 2500 RPM's. But it shoots all over the place...jumps to 2000 ish, then down to idle then back up to 1500, weird....
Old     (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-24-2009, 2:02 PM Reply   
I need to look at what I adjusted this to earlier this year. Last fall it did the same thing, I made some adjustments first thing this year, and now it is exhibiting the same behavior after not seeing any issues all summer.

Adam- I ride at 23.6mph.

This last outing I was only at 1/2 tank of fuel. So the reduced weight might have been a factor, but that's only 150 lbs. I'll fill up next time out to see if it makes a difference (assuming I have the same # of peeps on board).
Old     (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-24-2009, 2:07 PM Reply   
BTW, Adam.

I agree, my PP is mediocre and I think it's the paddle wheel position. Offset to the LH (Port?)side is giving me serious overspeeding in RH turns.

Are you running 1500 lbs of ballast in your set-up?
Old     (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-24-2009, 2:25 PM Reply   
Hopefully, I won't have to take the plunge to this:
http://www.perfectpass.com/pp_star_gazer.html#upgrade

But it just might be worth it!
Old     (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-25-2009, 11:06 AM Reply   
Until you can find the settings that will give you that perfect pull (there is a right setting you just have to find it), you will need to "help" it a little. I do not have a supra but do have pp and am constantly changing kdw and nn depending on load and crew and even whose riding. On my boat if someone cuts out on the drivers side, the speed will slow down and PP will kick in but it wouldn't speed us up quick enough (this is all before it was dialed in remember). If they cut out on the left side of the boat (passenger side), it would speed up too much and overshoot the setting, which meant when you landed your trick it'd be going too fast and PP would slow down too much. It was a pain! But in order to help it while your dialing it in, what I did was when someone would pull out to the drivers side I'd give it just a bit more throttle to as they were cutting so it wouldn't slow down, when they cut out on the other side I would pull back just a hair. Basically, I didn't use PP as THE speed control but more of a guideline helper to keep it at the same speed.

When youre driving someone watch the actual speed carefully and turn off the music so you can hear what the engine is doing. When they cut out HS tell them to cut out hard one time and just sit don't cut back in and see if The speed slows down alot and PP runs up quick, then get them to cut out and do something HS and watch the speed and see exactly when it speeds up. You'll be able to hear the engine when it does. Once you find that out, you can pull back on the throttle a bit just before the time pp really starts kickin up and it won't overshoot. And you should be good to go TS. Again this is all just to get you through the dialing in period. The best thing I can tell you about dialing it in is call PP. They are very helpful and not like customer service with any other company. They'll be able to get you dialed in in notime. Just head out on the water and give em a call when your out there.

Goodluck
Old     (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-26-2009, 8:00 AM Reply   
Thanks for the tips sippi. I think I'll give this a try.

I spoke with Mark at PP and he was very helpful. Bottom line is to experiment and adjust one thing at a time. He thinks this is the KDW needing to be a little higher because he thinks the boat is delaying it's throttle response. I'll try this first. I'll also need to prove out that the rider being on the LH side isn't forcing a rush of water across the paddle wheel. This would be a pain.

BTW- 2007 Supra's with WB Pro are not plug and play with Star Gazer. I confirmed this with Mark at PP. Evidently, with the PP software embedded in the Supra display, it would require a separate PP display, hardware, and run me about $1050. Not what I had in mind!!
Old     (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       08-26-2009, 10:46 AM Reply   
seth I run around 2000lbs-2100lbs in mine
Old     (jb06gravity)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-26-2009, 12:56 PM Reply   
I was having similar issues in my 06 Gravity Games and had the throttle position sensor replaced and she runs like a dream now. Perfect pass and the engine are working flawlessly finally.
Old     (ghind)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-27-2009, 11:22 PM Reply   
Upgrade to Stargazer. It isn't that expensive and it has no problems with paddlewheel water flow.
Old     (mikebu)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-27-2009, 11:47 PM Reply   
Unless you ride in a river in which case Stargazer seems like it wouldn't work at all when you take the river current into account.
Old     (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-29-2009, 8:46 AM Reply   
Not really interested in cutting a new hole for a new PP display. If it were $450 like a thought, no brainer. But for $1050, I'm thinking I'll play around with my settings, get it dialed in, and deal with a little frustration in the mean time.

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