Trick Skiing

So on OLN tonight, they showed some guy that was trick waterskiing. This is the first i have seen of it. The single ski was shorter that a regular ski and wider. The tricks that he was doing were insane. Also, the rope looked different. Does anyone have any info on this. Where do you get a trick ski and what boat speeds are they running and also what type of rope? It looked thicker and more like a bungee.

It's been around for years, well before wakeboarding. They used to have a term "three event skier" - slalom, tricks, jump. Speed is similar to boarding, not sure it's been about 20 years since I did it. We always used our slalom rope for it.

Jeff:

I think Scott is talking about tricks performed on a slalom ski. If I remember, this was done back in the early to mid 80s. I think you are correct, the ski is a little shorter and wider. Closer to what we call "fat boy" skis today. I remember seeing articles in Waterski Magazine and maybe a few videos. They did flips, tumblerturns, wakeslides, ect. Although I don't know the origin of wakeboarding, this type of skiing probably did a lot to advance it. I think it was much more dangerous though because of the speed. I don't seem to remember the rope being much different.

More than likely Jeff is correct. Trick skiiing is a world wide sport. I used to trick ski a lot back in the 70's and early 80's. The speed is slower than a wakeboard (about 18mph). You can do flips, spins, and tricks that invoke holding on to the handle with your foot and spinning between wraped and unwrapped.

http://john.panelmagic.com/trick.html

After reading Scott's post again I think you both are correct, he is talking about that kind of trick (show) skiing. Pretty far from wakeboarding though. I was thinking of something with a little more ingenuity. The kind of skiing that I described was around and much moring ballsy than the trick skiing Scott is talking about.

I have a friend that competes in jump, trick ski. Ill include a picture if youd like.

Here yah go not sure if itll work.

I don't know Bill, try holding on to the rope with your foot, then perform a 360 spin wrapping the rope around your legs. If that isn't "ballsy" it sure as heck is dangerous. Which is why trick skiers use rope releases with someone manning them.

And trick skiing is not show skiing. It's a sport where you are scored and compete in tournaments.

Scott, Obrien still makes a trick ski as well as D3. They are not cheap and pretty tough to find. The handle is a special Trick handle with a toe harness for toe tricks. The braid on the handle is for wrapping certain tricks. (similar to the old wake handles before they put t's or v's in them). Mostly it is the die hard 3 event skiers that still trick. It is pretty hard and the falls I took were way harder than any wakeboard fall. When wakeboarding became popular in the mid 90's a lot of us gave up trick skiing because we could do all the same tricks on a wakeboard with less pain. Imagine a shorter roam board that you ride with one foot forward and the other sideways and then...sit in a Plie' position.

collegiate ski teams still trick. we have a few guys that are really good on our team. the division LA Tech ski's in has ULL and ULM in it. Waterski magazine put out a list of the top college programs in the nation a while back. ULM was 1 and ULL was 2. Both teams have world record holders, its crazy watching them ski. Adam Dodd can jump over 200 feet. Anyway, wakeboarders have to ride in the trick division, because we dont have our own yet. That means no wake boat, too. And we only get scored HALF the points that trick skiers get for the same tricks. Needles to say, you never see wakeboarders on the podium.

I can't believe so few know what trick skiing is. I must be getting old.

There are a few good trick skiiers on this board. I just got mine last year. I think most of the ropes are the same as slalom ropes with a foot loop on the handle.

Check out Obrien, D3, and Reflex for good skis. Trick skiing speeds are a little slower than Wakeboarding. I trick ski at 18.5 but I suck.

Nicolas LeForestier can rip pretty well.

http://www.nicolasleforestier.com/2005/html/index.php

T-Rev -
Awesome link. I was going to post the link to his video sections but you beat me to it. Some of the videos he has on there put wakeboarders to shame. My favorites:
Flip Line Back (Back flip while steping over line with rear foot.)
Front Flip to Revert (Front flip landing backwards.)
Mobe SLBB (Back flip from back position, spinning 360 and landing over rope... insane.)

Scott - If you want to try something different, try a trick ski sometime. Personally, I enjoy trick skiing far more than wakeboarding. The fact that you don't need a huge wake and tower is one nice factor. I find it is generally more technical than wakeboarding without as much big air. Some people will scough at purposely trying to get less air, but ask them again in twenty years when all their joints are shot from wakeboarding. (How many people on this forum that have been wakeboarding for more than 5 years have not had knee surgery?) Between surface spins, wake tricks and toe tricks, I think there is much more opportunity for people to learn new tricks than wakeboarding. (How many flips can the average person do after all?)

Since you were asking about equipment, trickers generally use a special handle that has a toe harness to allow toe tricks. Some people use normal slalom lines for their trick line. As they become more advanced though, they usually switch to spectra lines like wakeboarding. The skis are still made by a few companies including Obrien, Connelly and Reflex, although usually only by special order. D3, Goodman and Carbonworx arguably make the best trick skis currently on the market though.

If you can get a chance to try one, take it. You'll have a blast. Just be patient because they do take a slight learning curve. (Doesn't everything though? Think about your first time riding a roam or any other board finless.)

Hope no one takes any of my comments above as a bash against wakeboarding. They're both great sports depending on what you're looking for that day.

why don't these geniuses wear live vests?

There skiis arent as boyant as wakeboards so they dont sink backwards as easily

Tim - Trick skiers are not required to wear life vests (it's actually an exception the coast guard has granted them). It's because the tricks are so difficult and doing many of them requires wrapping the rope around your body (i.e. - doing a 360 wake or surface, there isn't a handle pass. You just wrap yourself up in the rope, and then unwrap again.). Wearing a life jacket would affect the tricks.

The coast guard doesn't grant exceptions to trick skiers. The wearing of a life vest is required by state law. It is state law that specified a USCGA life vest.

The funny thing about trick skiing is it has a lot in common with wakeskating. They are both very difficult and the tricks aren't nearly as impressive as on a wakeboard. It's just that trick skiing lacks the coolness factor that skating is currently enjoying.

Tim, trick skiers have been going without life vests since long before people were all concerned about mandating safety. The tricks aren't as big as on a wakeboard and the speeds are considerably slower than slalom skiiing. Maneuverability and speed of execution of tricks is extremely important and the vests just get in the way. The dangers to a trick skier are more related to getting tangled up in the rope than hard impacts with the water.

John - I'll disagree with you regarding the tricks not being impressive. If anything, they're more impressive for these reasons.
1.) The skier is taking no more than a 5 foot cut into the wake.
2.) There is no tower to lift the skier out of the water.
3.) The wake is small, the skier generates most of his lift (and all things equal - a skier goes bigger than a boarder. - No scientific proof, just general observations of both sports).
4.) Because the skier is not as high, he/she must complete and execute a trick faster and with a less degree for margin of error.
5.) Smaller surface on ski (board) to land on, and no fins (attach or molded) for tracking purposes.

Because of these reasons, the tricks accomplished by a skier are 10 times more difficult to learn/execute, thus making it all the more impressive.

Of course, this post is my opinion (regarding "impressiveness" to others), but the list is very factual.

FYI - Many of the best trick skiers (pros) out there are damn good wakeboarders and would be better than 99% of the people on this board. (See - Russell Gay).

yeah, i totally agree with that. Trick is way more tech than wakeboarding. the stuff that those guys can do that low to the water is amazing. Most people though (me included) like wakeboarding more because you are able to go bigger on a wakeboard than a trick ski. It all goes back to the "bigger is better" way of thinking.

Tricking is all about swinging your body weight around and doing more technical stuff in a smaller amount of space, but wakeboarding just looks soooooo much cooler because of the height that you can get. And unless you're watching someone that is near-pro or pro at tricking, its really boring. Most of what people do on a trick ski are a lot of surface tricks before even thinking of doing inverts. theres just so much you can do with that back foot being out that its really important to get a good foundation on the surface before learning inverts.

John - You're right regarding the coast guard doesn't regulate life jackets for skiing, it is done State by State. Here are some State laws regarding life jacket requirements for Trick skiing (you have to read between the lines - I'll explain at the end).

California
Any person engaged in slalom skiing on
a marked course, or barefoot, jump or trick water skiing, may instead wear a wetsuit designed
for the activity and labeled by the manufacturer as a water ski wetsuit.

Connecticut
In Connecticut, water-skiers are required by law to wear a U.S.
Coast Guard approved personal flotation device (life jacket) while
engaged in water-skiing, except for those skiers who are engaged in
barefoot skiing and are wearing a specifically designed “barefoot wetsuit”
and those skiers who are engaged in trick skiing movements while
wearing standard double trick skis at least 8 inches wide and not over
46 inches long, and being towed at not more than 20 mph using a tow
rope not over 50 feet long.

In trick skiing, you'll usually find someone puts a rash guard on and this meets the "wetsuit requirement".



(Message edited by 97Response on November 02, 2005)

chris, We are just interpreting impressive differently. I'm using impressive like David's using "cooler". The degree of difficulty isn't what impresses a random uninitiated observer. Most people are impressed by how big you go.

I trick skied for many years long before wakeboarding was ever dreamed up. I know how difficult it is and that's why I made the correlation with skating. They are both difficult, but from a spectator standpoint, even the easiest inverts on a wakeboard are more eye catching, cooler looking, etc...

Interesting thing about the Connecticut law... Most intermediate to advanced trick skiers are not going to be on "double" trick skis.

well those "trick skis" look like cheap wakeboards, i can't believe they still make them. they might as well start making wakeboards that would be so much more comfortable. what was made in the 70's that is still made the same way today, redesign, retool, make a better design.

jo shmoe - I'd hardly call them cheap costing $575 before adding a binding to them. Just because the design hasn't changed doesn't mean the materials haven't. The skis these days are like 2 lbs. and tough as nails. The shape itself is a proven design. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

They still make them because they still sell them.

Side note to this.... @ last year's Seattle boat show I got to talk to Shaun Murray for about an hour at the Nautique booth. I beleive he said he used to trick and ski bouys when he was younger. BTW - I'd say pulling off a toe hold 360 while passing the rope under the ski when rotating is harder than most WB boarding tricks. No fins or channels on those skis. Try putting one foot on you board and crossing the wake w/o fins sometime while holding the rope with your toes. I agree with John, WB is much more interesting to the spectator.

i didn't say they were cheap, they just appear cheap. little bigger, fins, turn the one binding 90dgr., and you have a wakeboard, a proven design. they prabably have a required shape and size to qualify and get twice the points as a wakeboarder does in the trick competition. thats why i like wakeboarding so much, no rules, you can design your wakeboard any way you want it. the wakeboards 20 years from now will look completely different from the ones today, and they will perform better( who knows, they might even enclose the toes)

a proven design? Trick skiing has been around since the 70s (earlier), just playing devils advocate, but since when has wakeboarding had a "proven design"
make everyone ride the same board, the same line length, same boat, same speed and see how well everyone does

"No fins or channels on those skis"
Good thing to keep in mind. Riding a trick ski is rather difficult by itself. The thing tries to slide all over the place.

shmoe seems to think that trick skiers really want to ride wakeboards, but the rules for trick skiing won't let them. I can pretty much guarantee you that if you tried performing toe tricks with a wakeboard your knee would be toast and you'd look like an idiot.

smhoe it's pretty easy to figure out... Trick skis are designed for trick skiing, wakeboards aren't. The points awarded for trick skiers has nothing to do with wakeboarding. In fact, wakeboarders can't even figure out how to objectively award points. Point awards in wakeboarding are completely subjective and you never know from one tournament to another what the heck they are going to award points for. In wakeboarding it's the trick du jour that scores big. The point schedules for wakeboarding don't really mean anything. Two different sports, two different kinds of equipment.

I disagree with the statement that trick ski designs haven't changed in the last twenty years. The overall shape may still be very similar, but the materials, construction techniques, flex patterns, and many other nuances are constantly being tweeked. Check out the batwing tip/tail on the carbonworx or the compression molded design of the D3. All of these enhancements have greatly changed the performance characteristics of trick skis.

As a clarification, there are no rules against using wakeboards in the trick event as long as they meet the requirements, mainly that the width be less than 30% the length and that the ski have no fins. In USAWS tournaments, wakeboards and trick skis score the same points. In fact, many of the children (and adults) starting out in the trick event ride tournaments. The Roam is becoming a real popular board for this. The rule that wakeboards score 1/2 the points of a trick ski is only used in Collegiate skiing.

John. Good post. I'll admit, I was like shmoe at one time and thought it may be cool to replace trick skiing in 3 event with Wakeboarding. That was until I bought my Trick Skis. While most watersports share similarities, Trick Skiing is not Wakeboarding and does not want to be.

"little bigger, fins, turn the one binding 90dgr., and you have a wakeboard"

jo, that is like saying take Lance Armstrong's bike, make the frame bigger, give it a suspension, put some fat tires on it and you have a Mountain Bike. Two different sports.

Nobody is saying that one is better than the other because it's all what you like better.

jo, come a little further north to Michigan and we'll let you try some out. Don't worry, we've got boards in one rack, skis in another.

t, i'm really not talking about the trick skis(one on each foot) i'm talking about the one that looks like a wakeboard(two ft. on one board) i don't think there is anything you could do on that thing that could be done better on a different board. i know that trick skis are harder, that is why i have no interest in them, but i am talking in complete ignorance when talking about trick skiing. i barely have a skiing background.

i wonder if any trick skiers have drowned

jo, there are kind of two types of trick skis. i say kind of because there are trick jumpers, which noone is really big into. and then trick skiing actually has its own event in tournaments. actually i'v only seen one pair of trick jumpers, and they're made by carbonworx. they look pretty cool, but i've never seen anyone ride them. i'm getting into distance jumping though. its a complete rush. i want to be jumping at least 100 feet before tournaments start again, so we'll see how that goes.

I used to trick on Lake Austin back in the late 80's and 90's. Still have my old HO Extreme ski - man that deck by itself was over $300 in 1991! I switched to boarding a few years ago because it is a little easier, and the bigger board does better in rough water. I still look back to my tricking and overall waterskiing background as something that has given me an advantage in boarding in terms of learning edging. Both are cool sports.