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Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-06-2017, 5:03 AM Reply   
my local lake had a meeting last night about several people complaining about wakeboats with ballast (surfing and Wakeboarding) We showed up to the meeting out numbered 3 to1 probably. A lot of people kept talking about erosion of the shore line and property damage do to the "wakeboats" Yet no one provided any proof or pictures or hard facts that without a doubt that the "ballast boats" are causing damage and more erosion. This is homeowners vs the public basically. The lake is a Public lake, a very popular lake in the summer here in Texas. I argued that a 15-20 mph wind does as much or more damage than a boat passing by 4-5 times. This is going to be an uphill fight. The lake board is really all open to hear what ever, 2 are strongly for keeping wakeboats (also property owners) one doesn't care. And the other 2 are up for the best fight and one of those said :to me it will be what the majority want"

They specifically mentioned a certain boat several times (not me)

My Plan.
1. Out number the people against in the Meeting
2. Get some hard facts that ballast boats are not the only boats that are causing excelled erosion
3. Show that erosion is impossible to stop


Can any of yall please help me with this if you have fought similar battles

What Can I do?
Old     (Reddog78)      Join Date: Mar 2017       06-06-2017, 5:19 AM Reply   
Quit sacking out your boat and start wakeskating!
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       06-06-2017, 5:25 AM Reply   
Micah

Is this Gladewater?
Old     (rdlangston13)      Join Date: Feb 2011       06-06-2017, 5:47 AM Reply   
This is so dumb, winds cause was more shoreline erosion than wake boats. My inlaws lake house is proof of this.
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-06-2017, 5:51 AM Reply   
I think you can show that just normal water flow will cause erosion of the land regardless of the size of the wake.

People on the lake should look into bulkhead regardless of the problem or not.

And I would think that a ban on boats like this would hurt property value.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       06-06-2017, 5:55 AM Reply   
Get WSIA involved ASAP.

Be prepared to make a compromise.
Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-06-2017, 6:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexasBoy View Post
Micah

Is this Gladewater?
yes
Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-06-2017, 6:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
Get WSIA involved ASAP.

Be prepared to make a compromise.
link?
Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-06-2017, 6:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
I think you can show that just normal water flow will cause erosion of the land regardless of the size of the wake.

People on the lake should look into bulkhead regardless of the problem or not.

And I would think that a ban on boats like this would hurt property value.
agree I need to find some studies and some hard fact of erosion due to wind and regular lake weather
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       06-06-2017, 6:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MICAH_HARPER View Post
link?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=WSIA
Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-06-2017, 6:54 AM Reply   
any studies or facts will help. I have a month to get this together. Ives started a Facebook page and am going to be handing out flyers and talking to people on weekends at the boat ramp that I know will support our cause. the board will most likely side with the majority of the people. We are gonna have to flood the meeting with people from the community
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-06-2017, 6:59 AM Reply   
I guess a few questions I would have if this is a public lake: the first thing I would do is verify the Lake Boards authority. Technically the state owns the lake, do they even have the authority without the states backing to ban this? They sure aren't going to be able to legally search your boat to enforce it. Our lake has a lake shore association, but they could never enact something like this legally for the entire lake. This basically has to become law if enacted, which means there needs to be some legal authority, not just some people on a private lake owners elected board. Its gonna take an LEO to search your boat and take any type of corrective action.

You can also attach it from a size weight stand point. What is their limit, their threshold? A loaded SAN210 weighs far less than an empty G23. Or a 30 foot cabin cruiser. Are they also going to ban other boaters from driving 10 mph and barging their boats producing a large wake?

Like said get WSIA involved. By contacting the state you may find that any ban they make is not technically legal or enforceable.
Old     (Hyperryd)      Join Date: May 2014       06-06-2017, 7:09 AM Reply   
So a large cabin cruiser with a full crapper doesn't erode shorelines? Tubers making wild turns don't erode shorelines? What's next sail boats are stealing the wind?

I guess that is the only advantage we have riding on crappy lakes. Nobody here cares about the shoreline because the water level changes so much.
Old     (brhanley)      Join Date: Jun 2001       06-06-2017, 8:38 AM Reply   
Same thoughts as those above. The number one thing you can do is to get as many people as you can on your side. If you can get any local or national organizations on your side, even better. Have those people submit letters, attend meetings, etc. Try to talk to members of the Lake Board offline over coffee, etc. or do the same with their staff people. It might be worthwhile to reach out to the leaders of the other side to talk to see if there is any middle ground. The facts of erosion are unlikely to matter as much as the politics.
Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-06-2017, 8:51 AM Reply   
Anything the board places goes before the city council and is then voted on. The board is more like a sub committee I guess. The lake is owned by the City of Gladewater Texas. 3 of the board members ( 7 total) are totally on our side the others are up for suggestions and are willing to listen. Those 3 live on the lake and explained that they have been fighting erosion problems for 30 years. Some of us are friends with board members and know them well. We already stayed after the meeting and chatted with them and I think it did some good, just to show that we are stand up people and not there to cause any trouble.

I have already started a Facebook group and we are going to start a petition for other home owners to sign plus the public. I think the people that live on the lake think that they matter more, when in fact they don't due to the lake being a Public Lake. The lake is only about 7000 acres, so there are no 30ft boats.

The weight issue is something I will bring up next meeting also. I was thinking about it last night

But in the end I think this is going to come down to who ever can have the most support behind them, I am already working very hard on this and am going to put in lots of time and effort
Old     (CALIV210)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-06-2017, 8:58 AM Reply   
Damn man good luck with the fight !!! I knew this was coming its not just your lake . To many of the IDGAF ''bro'' crowd out there ruining it for everyone . I would suspect if this kind of change is legal then designating areas for different recreation will be the compromise.
Old     (zoodsmak)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-06-2017, 8:58 AM Reply   
Like others have stated before, you need to get Kevin or Larry at the WSIA involved ASAP at 508-507-WSIA. Once one lake goes down in your area, it sets a precedent for the surrounding lakes. Losing 1 lake can be detrimental to the entire area.

The WSIA has been fighting cases like this for years and they know exactly how to work on your behalf to fight this. The purpose of the WSIA is to protect our waterways and the WSIA is funded by dealers and manufacturers for reasons exactly like this.

Having worked with the WSIA in the past, the first thing they will tell you is that just like in your situation, the main reason for their complaint is NEVER erosion, it's almost always due to home/property owners getting fed up with discourteous wake boat owners cranking the stereo, and running back and forth along said home owners shore line. In many cases there is an interaction between the home owner and the boater in which the boater mouths off, turns the stereo up louder, or flips off the land owner. At that point you've given the land owner all the reason to go to the association and preach erosion as the issue.

They recently produced this video to raise awareness because this is the #1 threat to the future of watersports.


Contact the WSIA about this ASAP and do your best to reign in the idiots on your lake that are ruining it for the rest of us.
Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-06-2017, 9:57 AM Reply   
I have sent the WSIA an email and sent them my phone number. Hopefully this helps
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-06-2017, 10:10 AM Reply   
Surfing is going to be the death of wakeboats. End of story. I said that a long time ago and here we are yet again on another lake proposing bans . Boats like the G and all these other "super " wake machines are making it even harder to fight the war. Anybody who thinks a surf wake rolling into socks and shores is no different than a wakeboard wake or a boat passing by is blinded by their love for the wakesurfing. There is a huge difference in the way that roller comes into my dock vs a wakeboard or ski wake.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-06-2017, 10:11 AM Reply   
RB


That you on the RG forums?
Old     (Paul_42186)      Join Date: May 2013       06-06-2017, 11:00 AM Reply   
Another idea is to offer the people a ride in the boat to watch a rider and learn why the big wakes are necessary. Also if they have kids or grandkids, ask if they would like to try wakeboarding and offer to teach their kids if interested. If some of these people saw wakeboarding up close or watched their kids learn to wakeboard, they might not be so against it.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       06-06-2017, 11:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Surfing is going to be the death of wakeboats. End of story. I said that a long time ago and here we are yet again on another lake proposing bans . Boats like the G and all these other "super " wake machines are making it even harder to fight the war. Anybody who thinks a surf wake rolling into socks and shores is no different than a wakeboard wake or a boat passing by is blinded by their love for the wakesurfing. There is a huge difference in the way that roller comes into my dock vs a wakeboard or ski wake.
are you talking about the size of the wave?

If erosion is actually the issue, rip current is what's doing the damage. I also think that the complaint filed was loosely based on erosion. likely there are many other factors the owner is actually PO'd about.

At the end of the day, we all like our boats ballasted.
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-06-2017, 11:31 AM Reply   
Swat...yep thats me!
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-06-2017, 1:13 PM Reply   
I agree here 1000000000%. Our lake has been inundated with 100k surf boats and the rollers they throw are unreal. What cracks me up the most is they will have a 9 year old ballast loaded up with a double over head wave for their kids height. We park at the beach and these rollers slam your boat agains the beach.



Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Surfing is going to be the death of wakeboats. End of story. I said that a long time ago and here we are yet again on another lake proposing bans . Boats like the G and all these other "super " wake machines are making it even harder to fight the war. Anybody who thinks a surf wake rolling into socks and shores is no different than a wakeboard wake or a boat passing by is blinded by their love for the wakesurfing. There is a huge difference in the way that roller comes into my dock vs a wakeboard or ski wake.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-06-2017, 2:09 PM Reply   
Yes this is bad all the way around. Learned my first invert on that lake so this bums me out deeply.

Micah let me ask you this, does the lake still have that weird rule where you have to run counter clockwise? It's been years since I have been there but if i remember correctly we had to run the lake that way and it was enforced. It seems to me this drives people to run closer to the shore because you are essentially trying to get away from your wake and bounce back. I know this lake is small and the rule sorta makes sense for safety reasons but at the same time I feel it actually drives people closer to the shore. If I went today and that rule was abolished I would run the lake straight up and down and actually be further from the shore thus mitigating shore erosion. IMHO the counter clockwise rule is silly even for safety reasons.
Old     (hrwboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2010       06-06-2017, 3:33 PM Reply   
It always blows my mind when people on a public waterway feel like they can single out particular boats as causing damage. Here's a few scientific articles that could be helpful (I didn't read much past the abstracts). Wave propagation and damage to the surrounding environment is a real science so I doubt they're able to pinpoint the cause of problems from their dock!

If people want to argue because they need a scapegoat then bringing in some real research could be helpful.

Bishop, Melanie J. "A Posteriori Evaluation of Strategies of Management: The Effectiveness of no-Wash Zones in Minimizing the Impacts of Boat-Wash on Macrobenthic Infauna." Environmental Management, vol. 34, no. 1, 2004, pp. 140-149.

Houser, Chris. "Relative Importance of Vessel-Generated and Wind Waves to Salt Marsh Erosion in a Restricted Fetch Environment." Journal of Coastal Research, vol. 26, no. 2, 2010, pp. 230-240.

Manis, Jennifer E., et al. "Wave Attenuation Experiments Over Living Shorelines Over Time: A Wave Tank Study to Assess Recreational Boating Pressures." Journal of Coastal Conservation, vol. 19, no. 1, 2015, pp. 1-11.
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ       06-06-2017, 4:59 PM Reply   
We have a lake house on a narrow channel toward one end of the lake which people pass by all the time on weekends from the boat ramp and a marina. Technically 200' from shore is no wake by state law, and you'd be about just outside of that if you stayed as far from shore as possible within the channel, so it's kind of a gray area. All weekend long people in their junky I/O bowriders plow along at max wake with bow in the air maybe 100' from shore (my dock!). Do I hollar and scream, chase them down, or call the law for enforcement? No, I live and let live.

I would appreciate if they came through either at no wake or on plane, but the masses are selfish and oblivious to the damage to boats and docks they cause as well as general aggravation of their huge forceful wakes. I've learned to tie up properly to protect my property as best I can and have a mooring for when I'm not using the boat. People passing by on plane, just a boat or towing a rider do not bother me. It's once and done and the wake and effects of that wake even on a sacked out inboard are much less than a typical I/O plowing bow high. I sit and watch it all day for a month straight every summer, anyone crying about the wake from a wake boat towing a rider and driving a proper line with no power turns is oblivious to what's really going on and choosing to ignore the much worse wakes from the vast majority of boaters who don't ride... Or worse, tubers who are always looking behind them when nearly running into your boat or running over your rider while driving erratically, and always looking forward oblivious to their wake while plowing bow high. Erosion is an issue but your average guy in an 18' I/O is a much greater contributor to erosion in my experience. It is easily solved with a bulkhead wall or riprap. We put riprap along our shoreline, no more erosion issues.

I don't want law enforcement on our lake. They're only there on holiday weekends and do no good for any of the nonsense that goes on anyway, but will harass those of us boating responsibly and respectfully of others. I mind my own business, try to be respectful of others using the lake, and take appropriate measures to mitigate the inevitable effects of wakes and wind.
Old     (zoodsmak)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-07-2017, 5:08 AM Reply   
If you think certain people/boats are being singled out as the cause of erosion you are missing the point. 9 times out of 10 they are not singling a particular boat out because of erosion, they are being singled out because of the way they use their boat, ie. loud music, constantly running the property owners shore line, etc. The complaint is about erosion because it is the only way the property owner can effectively deal with the problem.

If you want to win these battles, do not play by their rules and debate erosion. Instead, solve the real problem and get these problematic boaters to stop pissing off the lakefront owners. If it comes down to solid facts, it will likely not give you the outcome you're looking for.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-07-2017, 9:08 AM Reply   
IMO Surfing is NOT going to be the Death of wakeboats Stupid people are. Videos like the one posted above are a great way of promoting "Common Knowledge"
I was just having this conversation yesterday. Do you think the requirement of a boating license here in california (comming soon) will help? Every day in the water we come across clueless people that with just a bit of education I'm sure that person could make everyone's time on the water less frustrating
Old     (2LakeWake)      Join Date: Jul 2011       06-08-2017, 10:19 AM Reply   
My suggestion would be to also show how it's not just the wakeboats that are a problem. On any given weekend at our lake, I could video tubers, deck boats and cabin cruisers doing waaaaaaaaay more to disturb the shoreline than any wakeboat. I'd also have a chat with whoever owns the main boat in question. Be pretty blunt and let him know he is the main issue here. Know your local laws regarding wakes and maybe even make a video of surf/wakboard wakes vs deck boats vs I/O's at 1/4 throttle. I can assure you that your point will be proven by this video. I have seen great damage done by a 22' deck boat pulling tubes than I have a G23 pulling a surfer.
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ       06-08-2017, 5:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
... Do you think the requirement of a boating license here in california (comming soon) will help? Every day in the water we come across clueless people that with just a bit of education I'm sure that person could make everyone's time on the water less frustrating
Not at all. I regularly boat in two states, one with a requirement for a CGA safety course which covers all the basics that most people ignore, and another with only an age requirement for various HP levels. If anything people are worse where the license/class is required. I attribute that to there being far more lakes and lake region culture or boating experience in the state that doesn't require anything. Holiday weekends in either state are a joke, but that brings out all the least knowledgeable and experienced people no matter where you are.

More government is not the answer. More knowledge is, but those who want to learn and be knowledgeable and safe will do so regardless and those who don't will not.

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