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Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       02-17-2018, 10:20 AM Reply   
About a month ago I went to the boat show at the BJCC in Birmingham, AL. I was checking out the Moomba and Supra boats when I was greeted with Dan Miller, VP of Sales with Skier's Choice. He never told me who he actually was as I had only learned this later on the following days when a salesman reached out to me. I just thought he was some local salesman that came off as really down to earth. Dan sat down with me and went over everything I could have ever wanted to know about vdrives and modern tow boats, Supra and Moomba history.....everything. This guy was very knowledgeable and extremely patient to go over all the stupid little questions I was asking . I'm coming from a Yamaha jet boat so this is all new territory for me as you can imagine so I had a ton of questions from maintenance and drain plugs to surf and tech stuff. After speaking with him for easily 20+ minutes or so another family came in wanting to look over the boat so I figured it was a good time to dip out and thanked Dan for all the time he gave me one on one with the boats and brands. Again he's a super nice guy! I put down my info and expressed I'd like to do a demo ride when the weather was decent. Went home and drooled over brochures from all brands and models.

A few days go by and Greg from Skier's Marine from Skier's Marine in Harpersville, AL calls me. He said Dan had mentioned me from the boat show and that I had showed a lot of interest in the Max and that I was wanting to set up a demo ride. Well today was a decent enough day after already having to reschedule once for crap weather last week. The Max I saw at the boat show was white with black lower hull but today's boat was a beautiful red metalflake with black lower hull, similar to how I had spec'd one out on the Moomba web site. The boat looked really sharp!! I know the look is a bit controversial to some on here but for me I dig the squared off look and deep look and the wide bow was really nice!

The conditions today were with a stiff wind on the water and we've had rain for days so it wasn't all that clean but that wasn't going to stop me from having a good time. I gotta say I was really impressed with the boat! I can certainly see myself upgrading to one in a year or so once I have room to store it. My jet boat isn't great for surfing due to all the jet wash to contend with and once I tried surfing I was hooked so I'll need a proper boat to really enjoy it. There are not a lot of videos out there or information about this boat up close with it so I figured I would bring my GoPro with me today and record some footage of the demo, Greg going over the boat with me, learning how to drive a vdrive inboard coming from jet, testing out the wake and surf wave at various settings and speeds. Maybe someone else out there is looking for similar video or information. Greg even talked me into retrieving the boat to the trailer by myself while he watched from the truck which I gotta say was pretty exciting and nerve racking at the same time having never driven a boat like this!! In the end it wasn't so scary or bad and it was cool to learn how to use reverse the "auto rotation" of the boat to your advantage around a dock. Anyways I'm rambling now . I apologize in advance for the GoPro being sensitive to the pole mount and the wind at times. It's a long video (22 mins) but he goes over a lot of aspects about the boat explains what we are doing each run and messing around with the plate settings changing the face of the wake or surf wave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1dqCO0EYtk 22 min. long demo ride raw video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVAuwU9pxMg 6 min. short condensed video with only the wake and wave action with music.



Here are some images from the day....
























Last edited by haknslash; 02-17-2018 at 10:26 AM. Reason: added images
Old     (SoulSurfer)      Join Date: Oct 2016       02-18-2018, 7:43 PM Reply   
If you make the jump, I bet you'll be glad you did. i sold our 2011 Yamaha SX210 and bought a proper wake boat in 2016.. The Yammie was a reliable and fun boat but I haven't looked back and have no regrets.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-19-2018, 6:06 AM Reply   
I am still wondering why someone wouldn't spring 5% more money for a Mojo. It is a 10x better looking boat, inside and out.

Got one buddy with a Helix (short version of the Max), and one with a Mondo. Its not even funny how much sexier the Mondo/Craz/Mojo line is. Parking them next to each other really makes the ugly come out on the Helix/Max line.

That said.....looks are subjective. Can't deny the "bang for the buck" aspect of the Moomba lineup.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-19-2018, 6:38 AM Reply   
Exactly like Eric said. Up here Moomba is the highest selling brand (mostly because 6months if we’re lucky is the maximum boating time) and Moomba is totally the best bang for the buck. Low price with a fair well quality. Not everybody wants to pay 100k or more for something they gonna barely use 20 weekends per year lol. That why Moomba is great. Good all around and does the job. And keep some cash for snowmobile haha.
But I’m kind in the same line. Lots of Moomba up here like I said. On the lake we have 3 mondo, 1 mojo, last summer a craz and a Helix added the bunch. (And I don’t talk about outbackV ).
This summer surely a Max will appear in somebodies dock but I’ve seen it at the boat show.
With that said I found the craz much more beautiful. And really prefer mondo/mojo over helix/Max.
The thing is they are barely the same price when you get some practical options. 5% more like Eric said.
Dont really understand somebody would take the Helix over the mondo.
With the Max maybe different because it’s a 22,5 so may compromise somebody who fells 22 is a bit short and the mojo too much.
But it’s just personal opinion! They are still very great and pretty good looking boats. You never be dispointed compare to a Yamaha haha.

Last edited by Mike88; 02-19-2018 at 6:41 AM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       02-19-2018, 10:40 AM Reply   
That wave looks small? How much ballast were you guys running?
Old     (Ttime41)      Join Date: Nov 2011       02-19-2018, 1:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
I am still wondering why someone wouldn't spring 5% more money for a Mojo. It is a 10x better looking boat, inside and out.
The price difference is more than you would think. I've seen a gap of 15-17 grand between Max and Mojo at different shows. Even compared to the Craz the difference seems to be about 10,000 depending on options.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-19-2018, 2:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttime41 View Post
The price difference is more than you would think. I've seen a gap of 15-17 grand between Max and Mojo at different shows. Even compared to the Craz the difference seems to be about 10,000 depending on options.
Just regurgitating what came out of the dealers mouth..... he said starting base price was 5k less....

One thing he did say, was that typically a Mojo would be spec'd with more options on average. But that doesn't change the fact that equally equipped examples are not far apart on price (if what he said was true)

For me, even if it was a 15k difference, I would definitely still go spring for the Mojo, and just leave some options off. I couldn't deal with the looks of the Max, and a few other things that really make me shake my head about that boat..... (like the 4 foot drop from the sunpad to the platform). Although, it did give me a good laugh, watching my friend take a header off the back of his Helix a couple times last summer. I guess he is used to stepping down to the platform, which isn't possible on the max and helix.

Idk.... for me, I have been thinking for a few years- "wow, skiers choice is really kicking out some great stuff these days", and then they launched this ugly new budget line of an already budget line??
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-19-2018, 3:13 PM Reply   
Hahaha budget line of the budget line that was pretty good.

And for my personal experience 15K more for a mojo.. maybe if you pick up the mojo pro model with EVERY options and the Max strictly naked..
Even tho I don’t really like to compare mojo and Max too much difference between these 2 and yes it can be a good difference of price.

Max pretty much compare to Craz. And 10k really seems too much. Equally equipped the difference is about 5k. Sure when I say equally it means that the Max would have more options to check and craz less because some options come stock with the craz wich the Max don’t. Like the back seat surfing view equipped stock in the craz, option with the Max.

Same with Helix mondo. The difference is very not that much. The 2 neighbors was complaining about that this summer, practically paid the same price. One took a
Fully loaded Helix and the other a mondo with essentials.. always a question of options lol. So many and they really can bump the price crazy
Old     (Andy_Mora)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-19-2018, 5:43 PM Reply   
I've been really interested in this boat. I don't surf at all so I'm only concerned about the wakeboard wake. It's hard to tell in that video what the wake looks like - I think it's hard to tell in most videos what the wakeboard wake actually would ride like. Has anyone had a chance to ride behind one of these yet?? I'd love to get someone's description of the wake.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       02-19-2018, 5:45 PM Reply   
Hey guys. Yea I agree the Craz and Mondo look much sleeker and are the best looking of the lineup IMO. However when I looked over the Craz at the boat show I honestly liked the Max layout better, especially the helm area. The offset dash allowed me to have a nice line of sight when driving the boat as there were not gauges in front of me. In a weird way the Max felt more modern to me. I also liked that the Max had a padded walk through area and access to the glove box from the side. Just seemed nicer than gelcoat in areas that could be dinged by boards, drinks, etc and offers a little padding for rougher days. My current boat is just gelcoat in the walkway so to me it just seemed nicer having upholstery there.

I haven't had a chance to crawl or see a Mojo in person so I don't know how much wider the bow is compared to the Craz but I liked the wider bow of the Max for a kids play area and larger longer space for adults. The Craz felt like it tapered in quite a bit with its traditional bow shape. I guess my last thing I liked most about the Max was just how much space there was in the deep rear lockers and underseat storage. I figured with all that room there was potential for larger sacs plus still have room for all the gear. When we filled the rear lockers there was still a ton of room left in there. It looked like you could run 1200 lbs custom bags in there and still have room for gear. But yes I agree it's not the sexiest boat in the lineup by any means but I kind of dig the boxy look of it and it just seemed to tick some of the boxes I was looking for. I'm still a ways off from being able to upgrade so it will likely be another season I think. By then who knows.

Last edited by haknslash; 02-19-2018 at 5:47 PM. Reason: Added more
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       02-19-2018, 5:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
That wave looks small? How much ballast were you guys running?
First part of the video was stock with no ballast @ 17 mph. Second run was 1500 lbs @ 17 mph. Third part was 3000 lbs @ 20 mph. Last was 3000 lbs @ 10.5 mph. 435 lbs worth of 2 adults. The wave wasn't as big as I've seen in other boats but it looked thick and to have some nice power but I didn't get to ride it since the water is cold. I hope to get another demo ride on the Max and the Craz in the spring season. I think with the freeboard you can really sac them out to get that big thing down in the water. Even at 3000 lbs we were a good couple of inches above the rub rail. The one from the Polar surf event where they piggybacked the extra bags really seemed to make a nice wave so it seems to have some potential.

Last edited by haknslash; 02-19-2018 at 6:00 PM. Reason: Added more
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-19-2018, 7:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by haknslash View Post
Hey guys. Yea I agree the Craz and Mondo look much sleeker and are the best looking of the lineup IMO. However when I looked over the Craz at the boat show I honestly liked the Max layout better, especially the helm area. The offset dash allowed me to have a nice line of sight when driving the boat as there were not gauges in front of me. In a weird way the Max felt more modern to me. I also liked that the Max had a padded walk through area and access to the glove box from the side. Just seemed nicer than gelcoat in areas that could be dinged by boards, drinks, etc and offers a little padding for rougher days. My current boat is just gelcoat in the walkway so to me it just seemed nicer having upholstery there.

I haven't had a chance to crawl or see a Mojo in person so I don't know how much wider the bow is compared to the Craz but I liked the wider bow of the Max for a kids play area and larger longer space for adults. The Craz felt like it tapered in quite a bit with its traditional bow shape. I guess my last thing I liked most about the Max was just how much space there was in the deep rear lockers and underseat storage. I figured with all that room there was potential for larger sacs plus still have room for all the gear. When we filled the rear lockers there was still a ton of room left in there. It looked like you could run 1200 lbs custom bags in there and still have room for gear. But yes I agree it's not the sexiest boat in the lineup by any means but I kind of dig the boxy look of it and it just seemed to tick some of the boxes I was looking for. I'm still a ways off from being able to upgrade so it will likely be another season I think. By then who knows.

Thatís some pretty good point tho. Everyone has their own preferences!
If you liked more the Max thatís good, you wrote up pretty good points there
(I have a Nautique so never took a good care at these details when I was checking the neighbors boats). Protected gelcoat from everywhere you can step is really a must for me too (craz ainít have it? Wow).
And you said the number 1 pos of helix/Max fatsac space.
The Helix can handle thatís for sure. Never rode a Max so I canít tell but itís the same shape so it would be the same.
The neighbors Helix had 1100pounds fatsac in each rear lockers + 750 bow sac in the belly.
And like you said the rear lockers was capable to put 1 or 2 vest or rope. Mondo would never handle like that.

With that being said, maybe the Helix/Max Hull came out especially for this. Handling heavy weight because itís the hype right now. And an agressive price for younger like the Outback V was.
Good thoughts
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-20-2018, 2:55 AM Reply   
You know, the max is like that girl standing against the wall at the dance. Not the prettiest belle at the ball, but you spend some time with her and she gives you a hell of a good time. ;-)

The Max throws out a stellar wave and can take a LOT of weight. Here is a quick promo video I did before the polar bear and I had the max out to help dial it in the day before.

I can say without hesitation, I could have that boat for a season with my family, and the wave would NOT be a compromise. The interior is spartan, but clean and functional, but the wave, its outstanding. I have been on the Craz and the Helix also, those are fine, but the max is outstanding. Great shape and that same crazy supra push.

Old     (aricsx15)      Join Date: Jan 2014       02-20-2018, 8:52 AM Reply   
Looks like they took the design of the wake tractor and ran with it. Wake/wave looks small. I have absolutely no idea why you’d buy this over a craz/mojo/mondo.
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-20-2018, 12:38 PM Reply   
We also rode the 2018 craz. I think the wave was good on the craz, but better on the max. Better shape and more power. Mileage may vary though.
Old     (MMPres)      Join Date: Dec 2013       02-21-2018, 8:21 AM Reply   
Hey Kenny,
When we talked I wasn't so sure how serious you were about it, but your definitely giving yourself the buyers fever demoing in February.
A lot of the folks above, myself included, aren't really sold on the aesthetics of the max, but if you love the look of it that's all that matters. It was obviously designed for function above all else. Moomba wanted to compete with the other brands that have surf monsters at half the price.

Owning the Craz, I can tell you that Moomba makes a great product for the cheddar you have to fork out, and Skier's service is second to none. Love all the guys at that shop.
Comparing the two, I can see how the extra freeboard and bigger bow can come in handy. I have no doubt that with some added weight that the Max can afford you, you're going to be very happy behind the boat and that's ultimately the goal. I know some others have criticized the results with some of your videos, but let's face it, it's completely stock. If you're an avid watersports enthusiast, which you will no doubt become transitioning to a Max, you're always going to add extra weight. There's no replacement for displacement.

You need to go ahead and get in it for the summer so we can have a little better representation on Mitchell. We're getting overrun by the Gs .

Last edited by MMPres; 02-21-2018 at 8:22 AM. Reason: wording
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-21-2018, 2:53 PM Reply   
^^
Just love that comment haha. We’re getting overrun by G’s.
Not for nothing hahaha just joking.

You said it all. Passing from a jet boat to a Max will definitely change the game.
Maybe we pretty much don’t like the look of the Max it’s a personal choice.
Preferences are not negociable it’s different for everybody.
Not doubt the Max can fit needs and no doubt with ballast the wave could be fair well.
Every boat owner gonna change or add fatsac for surfing. That’s a fact.
Old     (downfortheride)      Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SLC, UT 5600'       02-21-2018, 4:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Every boat owner gonna change or add fatsac for surfing. That’s a fact.
At the UT Boat Show I got a chance to talk with Spencer with Wake Makers, they've got a custom back drawn up for the MAX that all will enjoy. He was saying somewhere near 1600 lbs per bag and also hinted a plug and play bow bag.
I got to spend a little time with a Helix and at first I was put off by the looks. More and more I used the boat the whole look has grown on me and it helped the Helix had a banging wakeboard wake out of the box. I now have a MAX coming shortly and can't wait to put it to the test for wakeboarding. If all is true and it's a lengthen Helix the MAX will not disappoint.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       02-21-2018, 5:22 PM Reply   
Hey Adam,

I hear ya on the G's overtaking the lake . I would love to help represent a surf boat one day on the lake. Hopefully by next season.

We will have to get together sometime once you're out on the water. Would love to meet up and check out your boat!

I was looking over some of the other models and I still come back to little things on the Max that stood out to me that were missing on some of the other models. Things like extra cubby area made above the arm rest and the deep area in the dash for wallet, phone, etc with 12v outlet and USB from the Helix. Just seemed the Max had more thought in the design of the cockpit even though it looks minimalist. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea and that's cool otherwise we'd all drive the same boat.

Man, I would love to see what the wave looks like with 1600 lb sacs in each rear locker!! The dealer said they can take an extra 1000 lb sac out with us next time to simulate more human weight or ballast. I need to surf behind it to see how it performs. I wish I could get one now but no way it's going to fit in my 7' X 22' garage lol so it will need to wait until we sell our home and move to a larger one plus sell my Yamaha. The boat was massive on the trailer! A large detached shop/garage/barn is a must on our next house!

Last edited by haknslash; 02-21-2018 at 5:24 PM. Reason: Added more
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       02-22-2018, 12:43 PM Reply   
I have spent a lot of time in the Max at a couple of the local dealer events. I haven't been out in one on the water yet though. I currently have a 2008 Moomba XLV and it's the first boat that I could see as a serious contender for my next boat.
I LOVE the storage in my XLV, especially the basement storage locker under the playpen bow.
The fact I can have 1180 pounds of ballast in that locker on the water and when it's drained be able to easily fit 3 or 4 boards for storage when trailering or camping is super important to me.

The depth of the lockers is pretty fantastic. not just the rear lockers, but being able to fit boards under the side seats and even bow seats.
I dig that it's got 1000 pounds of front subfloor ballast leaving the bow lockers available for tons of storage.

I think it'll look decent enough on the water. Yeah, it looks nuts on the trailer. the interior is functional and checks all the boxes I'd require.
And I'm most concerned about how the boat performs when I'm BEHIND it.

And let's face it, there's a TON of us that don't have $100k+ boat money but want as much of the wake for less money. I mean, I'm in my 'dream boat' now and it's 10 years old.
I'd be happy as anything to be able to roll a new Max. But even as 'affordable' as the new Max is, I'm still gonna have to wait a season or two before I can justify getting a used one.
I only owe $12.5k on my XLV and for me, it's a big jump to a new boat.

The Craz and Mojo don't have what I'm looking for. Tons of storage, deep freeboard, and amazing potential for a value price. :-) They'd be more of a compromise for me.
Old     (theloungelife)      Join Date: Jun 2012       02-27-2018, 12:45 PM Reply   
I still haven't heard a solid pure wakeboard (no surf) review on this wake. If anyone of intermediate level or above has taken a spin on one, please share your opinion. I actually like the boxy look of the boat. Makes me think of a tank or something. My only initial worry is engine power. I ride at 5700' and this boat + ballast could be a lot for the 410 or 450 engines.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       02-27-2018, 12:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by theloungelife View Post
I still haven't heard a solid pure wakeboard (no surf) review on this wake. If anyone of intermediate level or above has taken a spin on one, please share your opinion. I actually like the boxy look of the boat. Makes me think of a tank or something. My only initial worry is engine power. I ride at 5700' and this boat + ballast could be a lot for the 410 or 450 engines.
Trust me. as soon as DTFR Josh gets his Max, you won't be able to get him to be quiet about the wakeboard wake. LOL He's chompin at the bit for "his" to be finished. And he's WAY more into wakeboard than surf. I know that he is going to be very focused on finding out exactly how the wakeboard wake can be dialed in.

and he is SLC so likely will be riding at elevation too.
Old     (theloungelife)      Join Date: Jun 2012       02-27-2018, 4:53 PM Reply   
Yeah, good point. I'm in SLC as well. Maybe they'll be a summer demo to check it out myself. Josh might be a little biased... I kid, haha.
Old     (downfortheride)      Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SLC, UT 5600'       02-27-2018, 5:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by theloungelife View Post
I still haven't heard a solid pure wakeboard (no surf) review on this wake. If anyone of intermediate level or above has taken a spin on one, please share your opinion. I actually like the boxy look of the boat. Makes me think of a tank or something. My only initial worry is engine power. I ride at 5700' and this boat + ballast could be a lot for the 410 or 450 engines.
Rich if this MAX is anything like the Helix it's going to be fantastic out of the box wake. I will for sure figure out the wakeboard wake and how the engine will handle the ballast at altitude for UT. I'm actually expecting very good things with the Moomba Launch system and was able to get a Mojo fully loaded to plane without using the launch last year. I'm more then willing to get you out on the MAX and see what it's all about when it gets here and broke in. Last I heard it's in production but don't know an ETA. I do know I have a drysuit at the ready once it lands here in UT. Heck you ride with Dylan Rogers up that way don't you? He just posted taking a MAX home! Stoked to hear what he thinks coming form a 02 Super Air.
Attached is the pic of the Helix with stock weight, it's decent in size.
Name:  Helix12.jpg
Views: 2654
Size:  186.6 KB

Last edited by downfortheride; 02-27-2018 at 5:25 PM.
Old     (theloungelife)      Join Date: Jun 2012       02-28-2018, 12:45 PM Reply   
Yeah, I just saw Dylan's post as well. I'm going to try and get a set with him this summer. Him and his Dad aren't afraid of some arctic water, so I'm sure we'll be hearing from him soon.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       03-24-2018, 2:40 PM Reply   
So the boat searching and demoing saga continues...

Today I drove to the local Malibu and Axis dealer (Rambo Marine in Westover, AL) to check out some boats. TBH I wasn't that interested in Axis until I started checking into their stowing dimensions. Both the 2018 A20 and 2017 A22 I looked at would clear my garage opening. We cranked them down lowest on the jack with tower folded and got them down to 82"! My garage is only 21' deep but it's a two car garage and wider than it is deep so I could angle a longer boat in and should be able to make it fit. The dealer also offered to bring the boat to myself to make sure it will fit after we do a demo ride next weekend. My garage is a mess right now so I won't have it cleaned by then to try that lol so I'll likely just make a crude PVC layout to see what would fit.

So garage wise an Axis boat may work for me. However once I crawled inside I wasn't too impressed by all the plastic in the helm and cockpit. A lot of the plastic panels you can push them and there is some space behind so it just felt a little cheap for the price these things go far. Obviously Axis is Malibu's budget brand and there will be cost cuts in materials and features to make the Axis cheaper but man it is a big difference from a Malibu to an Axis. Moomba is Supra's budget brand but to be honest I couldn't tell as big of a difference in quality between the two unlike the Axis to Malibu. It also didn't help the Axis quality concerns either when the salesman was showing me the soft touch panel for the controls only to have it fall off the dash. He said looks like someone robbed some parts from it to help a customer but honestly it just looked like the soft touch panel was glued onto the dash. You can see it tilted in the images below, it's the small gray panel on the dash to the left of the steering wheel. It's just hanging there now lol. Also the "Chillax" seat that swings up on the port bench side so people can face backwards with back support looked like it needed to be adjusted or something as it didn't swing up easily and also seemed to be binding when he attempted to stow it back down. Just some things that kind of left me feeling meh compared to the Moomba.

They are little nitpick things but something to be aware of if you go check out these boats. I plan to take the camera with me next weekend and will post a new thread on the Axis. Those cons being said I still liked the boat and would likely own one for a good deal as it would fit in my garage which is near my highest priority for a boat, so that does go a long ways for me. The A22 came with soundpak2, two 850 bags in the rear, a 750 bag under the seats in the bow, manual wedge, surf wrist strap that you can change surf side tower speaker volume and boat speed control. When you include the ballast bags plus integrated hard tanks and the wedge it's over 4500 lbs of ballast! The seat swivel was also nice and machined aluminum that you adjust from the side of the seat unlike the Moomba and my Yamaha where it's a plastic paddle handle under the seat which is a PITA to get to. Unfortunately Axis changed from a side seat adjuster in the 2018's and went to an adjuster under the front of the seat which is stupid imo and he salesman agreed. So I liked the older seat adjuster in the 2017 by far to the newer one in the 2018's I looked at in the Axis T22 and Axis A20. I also really liked the gel coat colors and scheme on this leftover A22 they wanted me to look at....











Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       03-24-2018, 7:09 PM Reply   
You just experienced Malibu/Axis.
Cutting corners always been an issue with bu’s since several years now..
I think it’s mostly due to not leaving enough time in quality control. Visible carpet cutting, sharp fiberglass and little things like that are not rare for bu’s. It’s very sad because it’s been a good company since a long time, but are in a downhill.
I think they struggling a bit in the surf game compare to others, that’s why they change their hull design almost each years since 2013 I think.
That means redesigning the boat almost completely each year, so they rushed out the plans and everything that comes. Fabrication, finish, etc.
Everything is rushed out and fits/finish is the thing that cought our eyes in the first place.
When half of your model year is spent designing, when do you find time to build them? And for sure no time for Quality control..

I never really liked Axis either, seems too cheap for the price.
Always prefered Moomba. Mostly better in everything and less pricy either.

The thing with Moomba/Supra is they don’t try to be Nautique or MC. They forget some of the bells & whistles,
but for what they do, they do it well.
Instead of Malibu/Axis that kind of trying and trying new stuff to become someone else..
Surf improvement is important, yes. But was is it if you lost clients because the quality take a hit?
That’s simply what I think.

To me buying a beautiful Moomba Craz fully loaded instead of an A22 always been a no brainer.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       03-25-2018, 8:41 AM Reply   
Yea it was kind of an eye opener to be honest. I hate to even bring up my boat but my interior seemed like it has better materials, design and feel than the Axis and my boat is like a $35k jet boat lol. And I will be the first to tell you our Yamaha jet boats are overpriced once you get into the 21' and 24' "wake"models. So I'm not really sure what that says for Axis but I don't think I would be able to live with that boat for many years. It sucks though because dimensions allow it to fit in my garage which is a big deal for me since I don't want to store outside or pay for offsite storage and constantly worry about my boat. I like to turn wrenches and just do some garage boating from time to time and having one fit in my garage is high in my needs list. I'm going to go back to the Moomba dealer and take a look at a Mondo and Craz. I really wished they sat a little lower on the trailer because the specs on the website say there is no way it's going to fit in my 7' garage opening. If I have to bite the bullet and store outside or offsite then I'm for sure going to get a boat that I feel I will enjoy for many years and be content with looking at its helm and interior. Just don't think I could feel that way with Axis and all that plastic and exposed screws holding it all together. The fact I could push on all the plastic panels and they moved made me come away feeling like it was the Chevy Astro van of wake boats....

BTW I apologize for the massive image sizes. It seems the resized on the site isn't working because when I click on the images it actually resizes them to be small lol. I think it's coded backwards or something as they should be small an then when you click on them they should go to the original size. I can't edit my post either due to the 10 minute after post timeout thing. Sorry if those pics are an eyesore to deal with lol.

Last edited by haknslash; 03-25-2018 at 8:44 AM.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       03-25-2018, 12:40 PM Reply   
Axis are still great boats Don’t get me wrong. Lots of people buy Axis and are really happy with that.
Malibu stay the most poplar brand. don’t know why haha but they still are.
Guess their price is a direct hit, not too low not too high. They stay in the Correct Craft (Super air Nautique) and MasterCraft level but little bit less pricy.

Still rock solid boats, Axis is just a bit over priced for me that’s all. When Moomba deliver something comparable for much less.
They still have some pos lol, surfgate is one of the first surf system that hit the market, Malibu’s was top leading back in the days (2010).
And Axis is my favorite Wakeboard machine. Everything is simple, the boat is aggressive look cool, have all plug and play ballast.
Audio is awesome and I like the simplicity of the tower. It can fit in 7’.


Winter storing is a big concern tho. Not so much boat can be stored in a 7’ Door.
Axis A and T models are one of them, they built it especially for that
Nautique GS20 is same thing, they built this boat for garage restriction too. But more more expensive lol.
It’s a considťration, personally I would never spend 70K on a new boat and left it outside all winter long.
Maybe in an external garage (not heated but at least protected from wheater).

I would loved to have a a GS22 Because my present garage door is 7’ Also. But it was more economical to store it in one of my friend underground condo garage. Rent a place for winter and bought a less pricy boat.
it’s better like that, my garage is kind of my work place and my truck don’t sit outside either.
The 20k more for a boat that fit in my garage was not a big deal since renting a place would take 30years before spending 20k lol.
Old     (80AM)      Join Date: Apr 2016       03-25-2018, 6:45 PM Reply   
I'll say this, at least in 2016 when I bought my Axis, the simplicity in operation was dead simple, it couldn't get any easier, but what the Axis lacked in fit and finish, it more than made up for in the wake/wave. Yes there are some spots with exposed screws and rough fiberglass, but I know where they're at and I'm likely not going to be rubbing my hands in that area often.

What I am going to be doing often is wakeboarding/wakesurfing and I'm also going to be storing a ton of **** on the boat. The Moomba when I demo'd it produced a decent wake/wave but the rear compartments were near full and if I wanted to make a better wake/wave and buy bigger bags, they'd completely fill the rear storage.

The Axis boat produced a bigger wake/wave with less weight and allowed me to board quicker and with more room for storage in the rear and it costs about 4k less for a comparable size boat. I will say the new Auto-Wake is a great feature, but as automated as it it, it still doesn't produce the same size wake with enough spare storage.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       03-26-2018, 4:36 PM Reply   
Oh for sure they look to put out nice waves, no doubt about it! I'm looking forward to the demo which is supposed to happen this weekend if the weather holds out. Which reminds me there was something that went kind of strange with the salesman. We were talking about setting up a date to demo for the A22. A bit later I asked if it were ok to setup two demos for the A20 and the A22 just in case the A22 won't fit in my garage. I told him obviously it would be easier if we just scheduled those at different times. He seemed fine with this. A little later after taking dimensions of the boat with the tower folded and all that I told him I may just make a crude PVC setup using the length and width dimensions to see if the trailer would clear my garage if I angled it in. The salesman mentioned that since I didn't live far that they could bring a boat by to see if it would fit and I told them that would be great. All is well and good and we are going over the A22 and then when I ask what time he wants to do the demo for next weekend he starts to kind of waffle and start saying sometimes they like to get a deposit on a boat on the lot to take it off the market and see if the customer is serious. He then asks me if Skiers Marine did a demo with me and I told him yes and I drove the new Max which I don't think he even was aware it was a new model. So it was kind of like he was not sure if I was serious in a boat but hell in there checking them out and I'm going to do demos of other boats to make sure I get something I want or at least get an idea for how each boat handles and surfs if I go the used boat route. Basically just doing my due research on a purchase this big. We ended up swapping info and He said to give him a call later in the week so I guess the demo is still on. It just was kind of trance he was pushing for a deposit that was fully refundable he said just for the demo in case I really wanted it. He already knew I was going to sell my current boat on the private market and that I wasn't about to float two boat payments lol so not sure why he was saying sometimes they will ask for s deposit before a demo. Never dealt with Rambo Marine before so not sure if that's how they normally operate for demos.

They wanted like $75k for the leftover A22 and $68k for the 2018 A20 that was completely stripped down (no carpet, sound pack options or anything, as base as it gets). The Moomba Max starts in the low $60's and the one I demo optioned with a few things minus AutoWake was around $69k I think and it's a little larger boat length than the A22 and definitely more freeboard, thus the reason it won't fit in my garage. Boat is freakin huge! So the Axis does have that going for it just need to see if I can look past some of the refinement areas. The screw heads don't bother near as much as the flex in the panels at the helm down by the circuit board. Just a lot of movement. I really wished it was just gelcoat with some raised areas for padded armrests and cubby pockets for phone and such like the Moomba. It comes off nicer and less plastic. I'm sure the Axis wave will be sweet and I'm looking forward to checking it out. The wave is obviously the whole point of these boats but you also gotta sit behind the dash and stare at it so you want it to look good and stand up over time.

Last edited by haknslash; 03-26-2018 at 4:44 PM.
Old     (Ttime41)      Join Date: Nov 2011       03-26-2018, 4:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80AM View Post
I'll say this, at least in 2016 when I bought my Axis, the simplicity in operation was dead simple, it couldn't get any easier, but what the Axis lacked in fit and finish, it more than made up for in the wake/wave. Yes there are some spots with exposed screws and rough fiberglass, but I know where they're at and I'm likely not going to be rubbing my hands in that area often.

What I am going to be doing often is wakeboarding/wakesurfing and I'm also going to be storing a ton of **** on the boat. The Moomba when I demo'd it produced a decent wake/wave but the rear compartments were near full and if I wanted to make a better wake/wave and buy bigger bags, they'd completely fill the rear storage.

The Axis boat produced a bigger wake/wave with less weight and allowed me to board quicker and with more room for storage in the rear and it costs about 4k less for a comparable size boat. I will say the new Auto-Wake is a great feature, but as automated as it it, it still doesn't produce the same size wake with enough spare storage.
If storage space and the ability to add more weight without filling up all the compartments is what someone is after, the Max is the answer
Old     (mlzelenik)      Join Date: Apr 2016       03-27-2018, 11:50 AM Reply   
I'll add my .02 on a weird experience with Rambo as well. Looked at trading our SE450 in on a 25LSV. Rambo was phenomenal to deal with, set up a demo on our lake(Tim's Ford). Demo went well. We had been by multiple times to decide between a 24MXZ and 25LSV. Wanted to move forward with the 25LSV and asked them to put an offer together...

They called up with possibly the most embarrassing offer I have ever been given in my life. It was downright insulting. We never spoke again. They never called back in to check on the offer/decision. nothing. Was really weird after going back and forth for a few weeks, stopping in multiple times, meeting everyone at Rambo and taking a demo
Old     (WakeWise)      Join Date: Jun 2014       03-30-2018, 6:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by haknslash View Post
Oh for sure they look to put out nice waves, no doubt about it! I'm looking forward to the demo which is supposed to happen this weekend if the weather holds out. Which reminds me there was something that went kind of strange with the salesman. We were talking about setting up a date to demo for the A22. A bit later I asked if it were ok to setup two demos for the A20 and the A22 just in case the A22 won't fit in my garage. I told him obviously it would be easier if we just scheduled those at different times. He seemed fine with this. A little later after taking dimensions of the boat with the tower folded and all that I told him I may just make a crude PVC setup using the length and width dimensions to see if the trailer would clear my garage if I angled it in. The salesman mentioned that since I didn't live far that they could bring a boat by to see if it would fit and I told them that would be great. All is well and good and we are going over the A22 and then when I ask what time he wants to do the demo for next weekend he starts to kind of waffle and start saying sometimes they like to get a deposit on a boat on the lot to take it off the market and see if the customer is serious. He then asks me if Skiers Marine did a demo with me and I told him yes and I drove the new Max which I don't think he even was aware it was a new model. So it was kind of like he was not sure if I was serious in a boat but hell in there checking them out and I'm going to do demos of other boats to make sure I get something I want or at least get an idea for how each boat handles and surfs if I go the used boat route. Basically just doing my due research on a purchase this big. We ended up swapping info and He said to give him a call later in the week so I guess the demo is still on. It just was kind of trance he was pushing for a deposit that was fully refundable he said just for the demo in case I really wanted it. He already knew I was going to sell my current boat on the private market and that I wasn't about to float two boat payments lol so not sure why he was saying sometimes they will ask for s deposit before a demo. Never dealt with Rambo Marine before so not sure if that's how they normally operate for demos.

They wanted like $75k for the leftover A22 and $68k for the 2018 A20 that was completely stripped down (no carpet, sound pack options or anything, as base as it gets). The Moomba Max starts in the low $60's and the one I demo optioned with a few things minus AutoWake was around $69k I think and it's a little larger boat length than the A22 and definitely more freeboard, thus the reason it won't fit in my garage. Boat is freakin huge! So the Axis does have that going for it just need to see if I can look past some of the refinement areas. The screw heads don't bother near as much as the flex in the panels at the helm down by the circuit board. Just a lot of movement. I really wished it was just gelcoat with some raised areas for padded armrests and cubby pockets for phone and such like the Moomba. It comes off nicer and less plastic. I'm sure the Axis wave will be sweet and I'm looking forward to checking it out. The wave is obviously the whole point of these boats but you also gotta sit behind the dash and stare at it so you want it to look good and stand up over time.
If you are at least a year out in buying you are wasting their time on demos. IMHO demos are the last step before purchasing. They typically offer demo days for the masses and looky Lou's. For a dealership to schedule private demos for everyone interested in learning more it's not good business practice. In this day and age with YouTube and boat forums you can do a lot of research without ever stepping inside a boat. Just my 2 cents.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       03-30-2018, 9:05 AM Reply   
Eh I don't see it that way. They are there to sell boats, not lot ornaments. Im there to learn which boat I like and want to spend my money on. Not wasting anyone's time and it also lets me learn about which dealership I may or may not want to do any work with as a customer. You can't get that from a YouTube video lol. Believe me I've watched thousands of videos on all these boats. Read hundreds of posts on all the big forums. There is only so much you can learn from a video or reading text from some person on the Internet. Ive also hit up the boat shows earlier this year to crawl over them but it's hardly the place to sit down one on one with the boat since so many people are crawling over and crap. So I've done my online research to the point that now I'm out physically seeing which boat I would want to own and what they do on the water. Research is for the customer not the dealer. I'm not necessarily a year out of buying anything if I find a boat that works in my garage. Anyways salesman called me yesterday to confirm our time for the demo. Meeting him at the lake at 10am on Saturday with the A22.

Last edited by haknslash; 03-30-2018 at 9:13 AM.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       03-31-2018, 6:55 PM Reply   
So today was the demo of the A22 and the Axis wave is no freaking joke! Working on a video now and will post later on. It was a beautiful day to be out on the water and the metalflake just pops with this scheme. The boat didn't drive quite as smooth in the chop as the Moomba Max did when above 30 mph but at cruise or surf speeds the A22 felt fine. The surf wave on the A22 was much larger, thicker and longer than the Max there was really no comparison. Of course the GoPro lens distorts and makes everything look smaller with the fisheye effect but the wave looked freaking massive in person. I'm sure all you guys are bored by my newb posts lol but for anyone who is new to these boats just go demo as many as you can so you can see what kind of boat you really want. Looking at the wave and wake performance of the Axis I was able to look past some of the plastic interior a little more.











For chits and giggles I wanted to see if the boat could get on plane with that much ballast plus the wedge. It took a while but it threw a helluva rooster and big wake. Not really into wakeboarding so I don't think its normal to load that much weight for it but the boat did it. Wouldn't want to run it like that though as I felt like I was launching to the moon on takeoff.



What was kind of funny but also a little awkward was when we pulled back into the marina I spotted the Moomba Max and the same nice salesman I was talking to a few weeks back at Skiers Marine o_O



Old     (dakota4ce)      Join Date: Oct 2015       03-31-2018, 7:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by haknslash View Post
So today was the demo of the A22 and the Axis wave is no freaking joke! Working on a video now and will post later on. It was a beautiful day to be out on the water and the metalflake just pops with this scheme. The boat didn't drive quite as smooth in the chop as the Moomba Max did when above 30 mph but at cruise or surf speeds the A22 felt fine. The surf wave on the A22 was much larger, thicker and longer than the Max there was really no comparison. Of course the GoPro lens distorts and makes everything look smaller with the fisheye effect but the wave looked freaking massive in person. I'm sure all you guys are bored by my newb posts lol but for anyone who is new to these boats just go demo as many as you can so you can see what kind of boat you really want. Looking at the wave and wake performance of the Axis I was able to look past some of the plastic interior a little more.























For chits and giggles I wanted to see if the boat could get on plane with that much ballast plus the wedge. It took a while but it threw a helluva rooster and big wake. Not really into wakeboarding so I don't think its normal to load that much weight for it but the boat did it. Wouldn't want to run it like that though as I felt like I was launching to the moon on takeoff.







What was kind of funny but also a little awkward was when we pulled back into the marina I spotted the Moomba Max and the same nice salesman I was talking to a few weeks back at Skiers Marine o_O









Ok, here is some objective advice. Youíre taking ďtest ridesĒ not ďdemos.Ē You absolutely cannot judge surf waves with your eyeballs. Never. They differ so much in ways that arenít visible itís not even describable. In fact, riding them is the only test in evaluating them.

Yes you can assess drivability, noise level, appearance on a test ride. Thatís all important, but it sure appears that you are looking for a quality boat with a quality surf wave.

The Moomba Max when properly equipped will ABSOLUTELY CRUSH an Axis A22 in the surf department. Every time, every lake, every rider. Test rides are seldom ideal conditions and dialed. Often dealers are far from able to dial boats.

Surf gate boats always look great on test rides. They make a pretty wave. Unfortunately, at the low end, theyíre like mashed potatoes. The big Malibus are seeming to come around (24MXZ, 2018 A24, 25LSV, M235). I am keen on trying them. But the gate boats I have behind arenít great (older A24, 23LSV)ódonít be fooled by beauty.

In this situation, aside from the Max being kind of boxy looking, when set up with proper ballast the wave it makes will be excellentóand clearly superior to an A22.

Wakeboarding? Axis every time.

You need to get proficient at surfing if you arenít already, get a good board, and try dialed in examples of your short list boats.

In the sub 80k category, the Max is a different animal. It can handle huge weight and deliver like a Supra SA or SE. Which is saying something.
Old     (dakota4ce)      Join Date: Oct 2015       03-31-2018, 7:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by haknslash View Post
So today was the demo of the A22 and the Axis wave is no freaking joke! Working on a video now and will post later on. It was a beautiful day to be out on the water and the metalflake just pops with this scheme. The boat didn't drive quite as smooth in the chop as the Moomba Max did when above 30 mph but at cruise or surf speeds the A22 felt fine. The surf wave on the A22 was much larger, thicker and longer than the Max there was really no comparison. Of course the GoPro lens distorts and makes everything look smaller with the fisheye effect but the wave looked freaking massive in person. I'm sure all you guys are bored by my newb posts lol but for anyone who is new to these boats just go demo as many as you can so you can see what kind of boat you really want. Looking at the wave and wake performance of the Axis I was able to look past some of the plastic interior a little more.























For chits and giggles I wanted to see if the boat could get on plane with that much ballast plus the wedge. It took a while but it threw a helluva rooster and big wake. Not really into wakeboarding so I don't think its normal to load that much weight for it but the boat did it. Wouldn't want to run it like that though as I felt like I was launching to the moon on takeoff.







What was kind of funny but also a little awkward was when we pulled back into the marina I spotted the Moomba Max and the same nice salesman I was talking to a few weeks back at Skiers Marine o_O









Ok, here is some objective advice. Youíre taking ďtest ridesĒ not ďdemos.Ē You absolutely cannot judge surf waves with your eyeballs. Never. They differ so much in ways that arenít visible itís not even describable. In fact, riding them is the only test in evaluating them.

Yes you can assess drivability, noise level, appearance on a test ride. Thatís all important, but it sure appears that you are looking for a quality boat with a quality surf wave.

The Moomba Max when properly equipped will ABSOLUTELY CRUSH an Axis A22 in the surf department. Every time, every lake, every rider. Test rides are seldom ideal conditions and dialed. Often dealers are far from able to dial boats.

Surf gate boats always look great on test rides. They make a pretty wave. Unfortunately, at the low end, theyíre like mashed potatoes. The big Malibus are seeming to come around (24MXZ, 2018 A24, 25LSV, M235). I am keen on trying them. But the gate boats I have behind arenít great (older A24, 23LSV)ódonít be fooled by beauty.

In this situation, aside from the Max being kind of boxy looking, when set up with proper ballast the wave it makes will be excellentóand clearly superior to an A22.

Wakeboarding? Axis every time.

You need to get proficient at surfing if you arenít already, get a good board, and try dialed in examples of your short list boats.

In the sub 80k category, the Max is a different animal. It can handle huge weight and deliver like a Supra SA or SE. Which is saying something.
Old     (SoulSurfer)      Join Date: Oct 2016       03-31-2018, 9:26 PM Reply   
If you're thinking 22 footer, have you considered the MB F22? Do you have a good MB dealer nearby? We LOVE our 2016 F22. IMO, materials and overall build quality are beyond that of the Axis (A friend had a T23 and I cross shopped the A22). Our F22, with 2800 lbs of sub floor ballast and 2 1100s in the lockers from the factory (which we usually only 2/3 fill), puts out a killer wave. It gets even better with 400 - 600 lbs in the bow.. Worth a look if you have a dealer nearby. It might even be able to be made to squeeze into your garage - should be about the same size on the trailer as an A22. Just something to consider.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       03-31-2018, 9:53 PM Reply   
@dakota4ce yes I know looks of the wave can only go so far. Us southers don't like cold water as it's still in the low 60's water temps so I didn't surf on either of these boats. Probably would have been best to do this in the summer when its warm but if I can sell my boat before then then I guess I'll have to get brave and bear the cold temps to try out the waves. I'm hardly proficient at surfing. i have a jet boat and it doesn't make near the wave of a real wake boat obviously. I haven't been able to go ropeless on it yet. My board is currently a LF Fish 5'6". I know it's not some top dollar board but at the time I wasn't really into surfing just wanted something to try on my buddies boats. I don't think it's the right board for me but it's impossible to know when surfing behind a jet boat wave. I don't have any friends who have true wake boats to develop surf skill prior to buying a boat. I've seen what a Max can do with 2,000 lbs and it was amazing for sure. I still love the Max for what it is. Just was saying or showing that stock for stock they are pretty different in terms of surf performance. The Moomba certainly drove much nicer and smoother. I'm not committed to any boat brand at this point, just trying to gather as much research and info as I can so that i can hopefully make an informed decision when it's time. I appreciate everyone's veteran advice and valued input on here so thank you!

@soulserfer The only time I've looked at an MB was at the boat show in February. They had both the B52 and the F22 there. The only dealer we have for MB in my state is Nelm's in Jasper, AL I believe which is quite a haul from me.
Old     (dakota4ce)      Join Date: Oct 2015       03-31-2018, 11:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by haknslash View Post
@dakota4ce yes I know looks of the wave can only go so far. Us southers don't like cold water as it's still in the low 60's water temps so I didn't surf on either of these boats. Probably would have been best to do this in the summer when its warm but if I can sell my boat before then then I guess I'll have to get brave and bear the cold temps to try out the waves. I'm hardly proficient at surfing. i have a jet boat and it doesn't make near the wave of a real wake boat obviously. I haven't been able to go ropeless on it yet. My board is currently a LF Fish 5'6". I know it's not some top dollar board but at the time I wasn't really into surfing just wanted something to try on my buddies boats. I don't think it's the right board for me but it's impossible to know when surfing behind a jet boat wave. I don't have any friends who have true wake boats to develop surf skill prior to buying a boat. I've seen what a Max can do with 2,000 lbs and it was amazing for sure. I still love the Max for what it is. Just was saying or showing that stock for stock they are pretty different in terms of surf performance. The Moomba certainly drove much nicer and smoother. I'm not committed to any boat brand at this point, just trying to gather as much research and info as I can so that i can hopefully make an informed decision when it's time. I appreciate everyone's veteran advice and valued input on here so thank you!



@soulserfer The only time I've looked at an MB was at the boat show in February. They had both the B52 and the F22 there. The only dealer we have for MB in my state is Nelm's in Jasper, AL I believe which is quite a haul from me.


Roger that. For the love all things good and right, donít buy an A22 if surfing is your primary pursuit. 🤣

No, a LF Fish is not gonna work. Even learning on a good board is vastly better.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       03-31-2018, 11:55 PM Reply   
Yes surfing is for sure the primary goal. Maybe once my daughter is older she will want to wake board but I don't see my wife or myself getting into wake boarding. Too old and out of shape for it I'm afraid

My main goals are great surf capability, able to switch sides, doesn't require listing, good ride in chop and rougher water. My budget will be anywhere from 30-70k, so a used boat is not out of the question if something older fits that criteria.

That MB F21 looks like it might even fit in my garage but there isn't a strong MB support here so I'm not sure how that would go over for any service or warranty work. I can do most work myself but it's nice to know you have some local dealer support should you ever need it. Closest (and only) MB dealer is an hour away so not as far as I thought.
Old     (dakota4ce)      Join Date: Oct 2015       04-01-2018, 6:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by haknslash View Post
Yes surfing is for sure the primary goal. Maybe once my daughter is older she will want to wake board but I don't see my wife or myself getting into wake boarding. Too old and out of shape for it I'm afraid

My main goals are great surf capability, able to switch sides, doesn't require listing, good ride in chop and rougher water. My budget will be anywhere from 30-70k, so a used boat is not out of the question if something older fits that criteria.

That MB F21 looks like it might even fit in my garage but there isn't a strong MB support here so I'm not sure how that would go over for any service or warranty work. I can do most work myself but it's nice to know you have some local dealer support should you ever need it. Closest (and only) MB dealer is an hour away so not as far as I thought.


In this case: look hard at MB. You can have a variety of MBs used in that realm. F22 is a spectacular boat. Their ballast system is awesome, fast, simple. Rough water ride is very good.

You wonít need dealer support unless you have an engine issue and have a warranty. I would steer toward boats (like MB) that donít have a lot of electronics.

Switching sides while underway is pretty much a novelty. Most boats ideally need a little differential weighting (listing) to work best (make best wave). So switching is good, but still takes a couple minutes.

Look for used F22 Tomcats. EASILY in that budget.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       04-01-2018, 8:52 AM Reply   
Dakota really said it all. 100% with his statements. Especially with his ę*objective advice*Ľ post. So true

MB Sport can be a really great option too. But I can’t tell, never been on one and no dealer in the whole state.
Only thing I would say is staying with a near dealer. If the nearest MB dealership is 6hours away i’ll forget it. (Personal opinion)

I’ve learned it the hard way buying a Tige 4hours away and obligated to do the road trip 4 even 6 times a year..
When the dealer 30min away was doing almost every service at the dock. The boat was 10k more at the time but damn I would paid it if i have to re done it.

Last edited by Mike88; 04-01-2018 at 8:53 AM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       04-01-2018, 10:38 AM Reply   
Thanks Dakota I will look into MB next. They are up at Smith Lake so about an hour from me. Not too bad if I ever needed to take a boat to them. From doing some searches it seems the MB boats, especially the older ones can sit low and fit in a 7' garage. Really hope that is the case as that would be a huge bonus for me. If I could fit a wake boat in my 7' tall X 22' wide X 21' deep garage that would be great! Would allow me to save on storage fees and not worry about the boat being offsite from my home. I like to work on my stuff at home and just chill in the garage. Not a deal breaker if I have to store offsite just would prefer it at home obviously.
Old     (SoulSurfer)      Join Date: Oct 2016       04-01-2018, 11:18 AM Reply   
Hmmm...those garage dimensions may be challenging for anything longer than about 20 feet. My F22 on trailer is a bit over 24 feet long with the trailer tongue folded away. For reference, I was able to get a Yamaha SX210 into my 24' deep garage with a 7' door, with about 18" behind the boat and about 1/8" vertical clearance above the windshield frame (had to drop the tongue onto a floor jack since the boat was actually 7'4" tall. My F22 would juuuuuust fit lengthwise but not sure about vertically with the tower folded. I could probably slide it under using the same floor jack trick, but my driveway is slightly uphill and pushing the Yamaha in took all of my strength. No way I could push my MB up and in! All that said, I stil heartily recommend checking out the MBs if your dealer is only an hour away.
Old     (dakota4ce)      Join Date: Oct 2015       04-01-2018, 11:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulSurfer View Post
Hmmm...those garage dimensions may be challenging for anything longer than about 20 feet. My F22 on trailer is a bit over 24 feet long with the trailer tongue folded away. For reference, I was able to get a Yamaha SX210 into my 24' deep garage with a 7' door, with about 18" behind the boat and about 1/8" vertical clearance above the windshield frame (had to drop the tongue onto a floor jack since the boat was actually 7'4" tall. My F22 would juuuuuust fit lengthwise but not sure about vertically with the tower folded. I could probably slide it under using the same floor jack trick, but my driveway is slightly uphill and pushing the Yamaha in took all of my strength. No way I could push my MB up and in! All that said, I stil heartily recommend checking out the MBs if your dealer is only an hour away.


How about length with removal of swim platform? Theyíre a piece of cake to remove...
Old     (SoulSurfer)      Join Date: Oct 2016       04-01-2018, 12:01 PM Reply   
In my case, I still have the GSA tabs to contend with.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       04-01-2018, 12:36 PM Reply   
I always remove my wakeplate when I store mine. Take a minute, simply remove 2 pins. That’s what I liked from Nautique.
Previous Tige had tabs actuators on the wake plate so pretty much impossible to remove..
I know previous centurion/Supreme had Kind of the same issue (actuators mounted on wakeplate angle) but solve it after the second year, Moomba too but pretty sure they solve it.
For Malibu/ Axis is the surf gate that take a feet more in length instead of Nautique that surf plate are inside.

Last edited by Mike88; 04-01-2018 at 12:41 PM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (dakota4ce)      Join Date: Oct 2015       04-01-2018, 12:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulSurfer View Post
In my case, I still have the GSA tabs to contend with.


Pull the lower pin, fold tab and actuator up and somehow rig to tie them up there, that would get you some room? Same for center tabómaybe you could let them drop down too....

Just brainstorming.
Old     (SoulSurfer)      Join Date: Oct 2016       04-01-2018, 1:44 PM Reply   
In my case it isn't a big deal - I need my garage space for a vehicle and other stuff so I suck up the cost of storing off-site. Garage storage capability was a huge factor when we bought our first boat, though, so I totally get it.
Old     (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Layton, Utah       04-03-2018, 10:49 PM Reply   
Got to ride my friends new Max a few days ago and the wakeboard wake was money! 900's on each side of the engine, 1100 in the bow with and additional 800lb sac in the bow. Awesome fit & finish, and drove/rode really smooth. Really impressed with the Max!
Old     (BDskim13)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-04-2018, 12:50 PM Reply   
@Kenny - I just tested a 2018 T23 and a 2018 Moomba Max. T23 did not handle chop well (felt and sounded like something was breaking when we hit). I was also very unimpressed with the surf wave. We had the T23 with full hard tanks plus 900 sacks and the wake plate down (~3200lbs extra on top of hard tanks) and it did not look like a strong wave. I rode the Max with all hard tanks plus 900s and about 800lbs of lead in the rear (~2600lbs extra on top of hard tanks) and the Max blew it our of the water.... with less weight. I had a down payment on the Axis t23 and ended up pulling it off and purchasing the Max on Saturday. Fully loaded with tower speakers, rubber decking and gunnels, AND upgrading to 1450lb Enzo bags in the rear (that's more than I tested with fully loaded) and I was out the door $10k less than the axis. One other thing to keep in mind is all the Axis's are running on Monsoon motors still. Upgrade to the Malibu, and they are running on Raptor motors. The Moomba's ALL run on the Raptor motors from; even the 20 footers.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       04-04-2018, 6:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDskim13 View Post
@Kenny - I just tested a 2018 T23 and a 2018 Moomba Max. T23 did not handle chop well (felt and sounded like something was breaking when we hit). I was also very unimpressed with the surf wave. We had the T23 with full hard tanks plus 900 sacks and the wake plate down (~3200lbs extra on top of hard tanks) and it did not look like a strong wave. I rode the Max with all hard tanks plus 900s and about 800lbs of lead in the rear (~2600lbs extra on top of hard tanks) and the Max blew it our of the water.... with less weight. I had a down payment on the Axis t23 and ended up pulling it off and purchasing the Max on Saturday. Fully loaded with tower speakers, rubber decking and gunnels, AND upgrading to 1450lb Enzo bags in the rear (that's more than I tested with fully loaded) and I was out the door $10k less than the axis. One other thing to keep in mind is all the Axis's are running on Monsoon motors still. Upgrade to the Malibu, and they are running on Raptor motors. The Moomba's ALL run on the Raptor motors from; even the 20 footers.
Monsoon are Indmar as well.. they are 100% same engine (raptor 400-440, Monsoon 410-450).
Simply the name change for Malibuís company for marketing.
They are 10+ At the prop only due to their trans ratio who is 1.76-1 instead of all other brand that use indmar with 1.5-1..
Malibu just get rid of their ę*monsoon*Ľ name because raptor doing really well these days. Axis will follow shortly.
Old     (dakota4ce)      Join Date: Oct 2015       04-04-2018, 9:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike88 View Post
Monsoon are Indmar as well.. they are 100% same engine (raptor 400-440, Monsoon 410-450).

Simply the name change for Malibuís company for marketing.

They are 10+ At the prop only due to their trans ratio who is 1.76-1 instead of all other brand that use indmar with 1.5-1..

Malibu just get rid of their ę*monsoon*Ľ name because raptor doing really well these days. Axis will follow shortly.


Check me if I am wrong hereóAxis has GM based Indmars and Malibu has the Fords. I think?

So theyíre -not- the same as youíre saying...?

And I also think your tranny ratio statement is incorrect too. I think a great deal of 1.76:1 is out there, and the supercharged Raptor uses a 1.5:1.

Again, could be wrong.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       04-05-2018, 4:13 AM Reply   
The Axis A22 I drove was powered by a Crusader Monsoon 6.0 L engine (GM), not the Indmar Raptor 6.2 L engine (Ford).

Last edited by haknslash; 04-05-2018 at 4:18 AM.
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       04-05-2018, 5:00 AM Reply   
Crusader engines are built by PCM and are based on Chevrolet engine. You are correct axis uses crusader but it is Chevy powered
Old     (BDskim13)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-05-2018, 5:27 AM Reply   
To echo the above, they are NOT the same engines. Ford block vs. chevy block. I have some buddies that have also had motor issues with the Axis. All were covered by warranty but issues nonetheless.

Here are some pics of the Max I bought (tower speakers were not added yet). Should also note that I upgraded to prop which made a significant difference in pulling the weight and planing out.
Attached Images
 
Old     (BDskim13)      Join Date: Mar 2018       04-05-2018, 5:32 AM Reply   
not sure why these are coming out sideways but better than nothing.
Attached Images
  
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       04-05-2018, 5:59 AM Reply   
http://www.crusaderengines.com/challenger/engines/axis/
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       04-05-2018, 5:20 PM Reply   
Well I spoke with Greg today at Skiers Marine. He had called me after seeing this thread lol. Really nice guy. He offered to come ride a Max wave once the water warms up and I told him that would be great. The red Max I did the demo ride in ended up selling. Hope the new owner has a great time with it!!

Last edited by haknslash; 04-05-2018 at 5:22 PM.
Old     (haknslash)      Join Date: Jan 2018       04-05-2018, 5:21 PM Reply   
@Brett that's a sharp Max you got. Enjoy it man!!
Old     (dakota4ce)      Join Date: Oct 2015       04-05-2018, 8:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by haknslash View Post
Well I spoke with Greg today at Skiers Marine. He had called me after seeing this thread lol. Really nice guy. He offered to come ride a Max wave once the water warms up and I told him that would be great. The red Max I did the demo ride in ended up selling. Hope the new owner has a great time with it!!


Make sure that bad boy has some weight in it! It will deliver. I still think itís like a bargain SE or SL!

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