Articles
   
       
Pics/Video
       
Wake 101
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WakeWorld Home
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Non-Wakeboarding Discussion

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 10:49 AM Reply   
So you agree that it's not what's wrong with this country? Lack of civil discourse is the result of divergent opinions with no middle ground. People like Cruz are intellectually dishonest. He is a very intelligent man who uses that intelligence to manipulate an army of followers to gain power. Your statement was an example of the superficiality that pervades our country. What's wrong with this country is economic policy and the belief that capitalism is a self regulating moral system that will always result in the most perfect solution. And that capitalism cannot be polluted by allowing alternative philosophies to supplement it.

I would never claim that democrats are immune to such manipulation. Because there are hoards of democrats who are no more capable of knowing why they are democrat other than they see the democratic party as appealing to their best interest. Ironically conservatives actually demonize the idea that the voting public would actually vote for someone who they believe represents their best interest. When in actuality only an intellectually honest person is capable of making that decision.

So yeah there are knuckle draggers on both sides of the political spectrum.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-04-2016, 11:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Shawndoggy. not sure what you are wanting? Are you simply passive aggressive or you really don't know? If you do know, then what discussion are you wanting out of this?
Delta the definitions you posted are circular..... to summarize: constitutionalists believe in constitutionalism, which is the belief in a constitutional form of government.

So I mean we know that there aren't really any examples (at least modern ones) of a President expressly saying "I'm doing this [INSERT ACTION], Constitution be damned." Now that would clearly be the antithesis of the definitions you posted because you'd a have a President expressly rejecting the constitution. But that doesn't happen.

So.... I'm just looking for examples of "stuff that's consistent with constitutionalism," and "stuff that's inconsistent with constitutionalism," so I can understand what you mean by your statement that Cruz has his appeal as a constitutionalist.

Maybe you have examples of other presidential candidates expressly rejecting the constitutional form of government?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 12:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
The Constitution is everything about what faces this nation. It is the laws that are being passed that break down our Constitution in the name of replacing American sovereignty with UN friendly treaties.
Sorry but the Constitution doesn't protect the people from "replacing their sovereignty with UN friendly treaties". The Constitution only delineates the process that govt must employ to enact such a treaty. It is the responsibility of the people, not the Constitution to elect a govt that represents what they believe is best for the future of the nation.
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 1:34 PM Reply   
The people may elect people however it still needs to be in bounds of the constitution. We have elected leaders who are pushing the limits of their powers knowing that their party will not stop them. The people can not simply pass laws or sign treaties that go against the rights given to us by the constitution.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 2:49 PM Reply   
Apparently you don't understand the bounds of the Constitution and what kind of protections it provides. Not standing corrected on your assertion about the Constitution protecting the public from treaties without specifics is an example of that. And guess what... go read the Constitution. It doesn't provide a lot of individual protections. Most of those individual protections are extrapolated by the SC without any clear mention in the Constitution. Your argument would be best served by quoting the right guaranteed to you by the Constitution that is being violated by the treaty in question. The Constitution mainly protects citizens by defining the rule book that govt must obey.

But the Constitution was written a long time ago and wasn't perfect then. It didn't recognize blacks as men or women as equals. Those protections came later in the form of amendments. The Constitution cannot protect a nation from a society of willful ignorance.
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 4:33 PM Reply   
The first ten amendments are about individual rights. What Constitution are you reading?

On treaties, they must be ratified by congress. What about the Iran deal? Should that be ratified by congress? Pacific Trade Agreement? Seems to be stretches of executive power.

States passing gun laws that are against the 2nd amendment. We can go on I am sure. Point is, I would prefer to have a president who was for closer interpretation of individual rights and the separation of powers than using executive order to try and pass landmark legislation.

Last edited by deltahoosier; 02-04-2016 at 4:40 PM.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 4:56 PM Reply   
The Pacific Trade agreement is the only thing that Obama has ever done that Republicans haven't criticized. I'm pretty sure that any necessary ratification will be forthcoming. Executive action is not law and only temporary. Congress ratification will either happen or it won't. Executive actions only force their hand and make Congress act. We will see.

You are correct that the amendments do provide individual protections. So which ones apply to the treaty in question? And yes the Constitution does clearly protect the right to own arms in the context of maintaining a well regulated militia. If they had only left out the rationale for why they guaranteed the right to own arms it sure would have made interpretation of the 2nd Amendment much less arguable. If you ignore that rationale then you are claiming the 2nd contains meaningless and superfluous language that can be ignored.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-04-2016, 6:01 PM Reply   
Delta it's kinda disappointing that we are now considering questions that you could easily answer yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post

On treaties, they must be ratified by congress. What about the Iran deal?
On the Iran deal, Congress gave the President authority to negotiate within prescribed parameters under the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act of 2015. Once the President had a deal, he was to bring it to Congress, where Congress had 60 days to reject it. If there was a rejection, the President could veto the objection unless it was passed with a 2/3 majority.

So essentially Congress pre-authorized the President to act, and then tied its own hands as far as the scope of its own rejection goes. It would be pretty disingenuous to say that the President pulled one over on Congress with the Iran deal.

Quote:
Pacific Trade Agreement?
The TPP IS still awaiting congressional approval.
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 6:47 PM Reply   
You really think I was looking for answers to those questions? We? You have mouse in your pocket? The point is that the president has been pushing the envelope for executive action.

Nothing in this Act shall be construed as:

modifying the President's authority to negotiate, enter into, or implement executive agreements, other than the restrictions on implementation of the agreements specifically covered by this Act;
allowing any new waiver, suspension, reduction, or other relief from statutory sanctions with respect to Iran under any provision of law, or allowing the President to refrain from applying any such sanctions pursuant to an agreement during the period for congressional review;
revoking or terminating any statutory sanctions imposed on Iran; or
authorizing the use of military force against Iran.


Seems like the current deal with Iran is beyond revoking sanctions.

TPP just like the democrat negotiated Kyoto. Both are share the weath schemes just like NAFTA. The president if he were to get congress to be democrat again they would sign this bill into law. It is bad for American businesses so why would the president try and agree to such a treaty?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 7:06 PM Reply   
"It is bad for American businesses so why would the president try and agree to such a treaty?"

That is the biggest mystery about Obama. If it were a Republican president it wouldn't be a mystery at all. When Clinton was President the economy was enjoying a tech boom and the consequences of NAFTA would not be known for years to come. Not to say that there weren't those who were focused enough on the fundamentals of economic theory to predict a bad outcome. But they could have easily been marginalized given the economic conditions of the 90's. You have to remember that protecting the economy requires sacrifice and moderation. Not something that humans are prone to agree to.
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 7:08 PM Reply   
did not even notice the further up replies.

Most definitions of constiutionalism define it basically as a interpretation of the constitution as a limited in power document with checks on government power aka smaller government. Compared to what we have now, which is greater control over your life via government regulation and mandates on how you can spend your money.

Simple examples of Obama violating the constitution:

Obamacare’s Bay State bailout and Commonwealth kickback

Further delays of Obamacare’s employer mandate.

Extending Obamacare subsidies to non-exchange plans.

Delay of Obamacare’s transparency requirements.

Obamacare’s hidden tax on states.

Deferred Action for Parents of Americans.

EPA’s Clean Power Plan

EPA’s Clean Water Rule.

EPA’s cap-and-trade

Net neutrality
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 7:16 PM Reply   
I think it is pretty transparent why Obama is trying to sign such a treaty (as well as Clinton). Everyone knew what NAFTA would do. I knew it as a 20 year old. The difference is, the democrat party has shifted big time. Many of the richest people in the world are democrats. They also are staunch internationalist. They are not concerned about the US worker any longer. They want to share US wealth to the third world via the UN. The three treaties I have mentioned are all about sharing the wealth. It so happens that they can package some of them as "environmental" to make the public swallow it. Why do you think Obama is trying to kill the coal industry? Makes the cost of production rise so it is more economical to manufacture out of the country.

I am going to talk a little out of both sides of my mouth. It is also necessary to get money moving into the country. That is why during the Clinton years everyone had money because of the "star wars" tech spending the decade before. Investment money was plowing from outside the country into the US. Also, Clinton removed the Glass-Stegal act that made the housing market take off. All of it was too much too fast. Could go no where but down because it was all fake progress.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 8:37 PM Reply   
The preamble of the Constitution generally throws most of your claims out the window. It is the responsibility of the govt to protect the welfare of the people.

So if everyone knew about the effects of NAFTA then why is it now that nobody is concerned about the primary thing killing our economy now. Which is basically the same problem. I talk about pitting workers against impoverished labor and while don't normally dispute it they still act as though it's an insignificant issue. I never gave a s**t about economics or politics until I was in my 50's and the blatant display of intellectual dishonesty combined with the fall of the economy was rubbed in my face. I was making money hand over fist in the 90's tech boom and intellectual dishonesty was not the spectacle that it's become these days.

Hell I even thought that Christians who wore their religion on their sleeve were just nuts who believed in the supernatural. But then it became apparent that conservative Christians who publicly praised Jesus actually assassinated the character of Jesus, a man who was an intellectual that had nothing in common with people who worshiped symbols like the cross while crying over his graven images. They believe that the path to eternal life was little more than asking for his forgiveness and died on the cross to whitewash their sins. He never claimed that at all. He claimed the path to eternal life was through adopting the principles he taught. They compensated by performing good deeds locally while ignoring the the most fundamental tenet of the religion. They loved quoting scripture, but you'll never see them quote passages in Acts about the "True Believers". As if the Bible calling them "True Believers" wasn't enough to draw their attention, God validated their beliefs by killing a man and wife who claimed to be True Believers but lied about adhering strictly to their principals.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-05-2016, 8:30 AM Reply   
"I think it is pretty transparent why Obama is trying to sign such a treaty"

It's not transparent to me. So that isn't sufficient to allow me to understand what you are suggesting. It's unclear to me if Obama has legitimate rationale that is consistent with his character because our political system has made such sport out of twisting the words of leaders. Making it virtually unproductive to try and explain complex factors that lead to such decisions. Our economic system is a quagmire of complexity that results in all solutions being double edged swords.
Old    deltahoosier            02-05-2016, 11:20 AM Reply   
Nice discussion John.

Two things to address:

First. Jesus said the way through heaven is through him, the son of God. Not works. You are correct, he did blast those who worship false idols. The whole works thing is you saying as a human that you can be your own god. That is where people can be deceived. That is much of the muslim problem today. Catholicism and Islam both believe in the scales of justice for entrance to heaven. They also believe in being a martyr. In both cases you set yourself up for being manipulated and controlled by evil men because your fear of loosing heaven. To me, man will always fail you. They for sure will fail next to God (if you believe in God). We are sinful by nature. We can only hope to live a good life and do the best you can. Try and stay will some fellowship with Godly principles and pray. You will fall down as a Christian or anyone else. All I can do is look for my fellow man to move to the positive.

Look, I don't want to turn this into bible fest. I am not too particularly religious. I have my believes and am secure with them. I know enough about the bible to know where the world is heading because it speaks to the nature of man. You are a intellectual man. Look this stuff up if you want to learn. Next thing you know Wes is going to be in on this, we will argue for a day and a half, there will be other people jumping in to do drive by snark. Look, here are a few quotes directly from the bible that counters your contention about being saved by works.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

Romans 10:9-10 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”

Acts 16:30b-31 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

I am glad you made mad money. I have always had an ok job but never big money. I am way behind others in the bay area tha'ts for sure.

Look, I could easily live a life where I sat back, did nothing, blame others and blame God. We lost our house my second year in college and had to convince the financial aid people I was not lying about how little money we had. Slept on friends couches, girl friend took me in, and still went to class even though I was not getting credit for half the semester. Graduated with my 2 year degree in lasers and moved to California from Indiana at age 19. Only been unemployed for 1 week since then (knock on wood) even though I had been laid off a few times. Father passed away when I was 8 which threw us into poverty. My mom did not take welfare even though we qualified, mom passed at 26, and a brother at 31. I raised 2 girls who are in college and married living 2600 miles from anyone who even cared. I have had to eat my false pride on many occasion. I had to listen, learn, figure out why I did not progress in life at times. I had to figure out that if someone did not like me, why that way. I had to figure out why people did like me. I had to apply all things to make it. I am still learning and growing. Most of all, I did not make excuses that the universe or some boogy many was keeping me down. I instead try to focus on situation, cause and effect. If my friends got something awesome, I celebrated like I won something. Almost every fist fight I ever got into in my young life was because someone was picking of someone. Because I never had a hand up, I had to study human nature to make it at all, if I did not I could have wallowed in anger and resentment instead of realizing there is a way out. Personal growth and pausing for moments of poise.

This is why I don't have any sympathy for lazy people who grew up in the bay area or anywhere else who want to use the excuse some group kept them down. They have more access to vast opportunity than almost anyone on earth. They don't take it. Why? That is the human nature aspect. Are they manipulated? I say yes. I think they are because some sociopath politicians want votes. Self reliance is the biggest threat to government control.

Onto NAFTA and so on:

I view NAFTA and other treaties as complex as well, however I think we agree that they are horrible for American workers. You ask why would democrats (the champion of the American workers) let this happen? Because they are not the champion of the American worker any longer. The elites of the party are the richest people in the world. They liken themselves as children of the world. They say it. I have heard democrats on this board say it. The actions of the party say it. The One World Workers Party says it. The Young Communists manifesto says it. Progressive websites say it. Socialist websites say it. Most democrats today argue against American exceptionalism. The president goes around apologizing for Americans. The president is trying to kill of our power making capabilities which makes producing more expensive. WIth all these people saying this and the proof in the pudding that this treaties are bad for Americans, at want point does someone step up and say that the democrats don't have our best interests at heart?

Look at the voting map. All the poor people are voting Republican. The rich city areas are voting democrat. Who has the wealth? Democrats try and convince us that the poor people are only voting republican because they are racists. Bull crap. They are voting for someone who looks like they may give a crap about America first.
Old     (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-05-2016, 12:36 PM Reply   
I like this quote: ". . .as a nation that has embraced free trade policies, we’ve been far too reluctant to throw our weight around to ensure that markets are opened to American products. Free trade does benefit the middle class by ensuring they have cheap goods, but far too often Americans who make competitive products are being closed out of foreign markets by protectionists while our government merely shrugs its shoulders. Meanwhile, industry after industry has closed its doors in the United States. We don’t make radios and TVs here anymore. No cell phones are made here. Over 42,000 factories have closed since 2001. The villain isn’t free trade so much as politicians who aren’t willing to DEMAND that other countries give our businesses staffed by middle class workers the same opportunity to sell our products overseas as we give other nations.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-05-2016, 12:57 PM Reply   
"John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

This is a good example. It is very general and does not speak to the requirements of a Christian for eternal life. But is it vague enough for many to interpret as meaning they need to nothing. The other two state that Christians need to do nothing more than believe if interpreted in literal sense. Which means the essence of everything Jesus taught and stood for is meaningless in the context of eternal life. It also means that Christians don't need to be concerned with moral behavior for eternal life. But my observation is that they still feel the need to hedge their bets. Just not in a way that amounts to sacrifice and "knowing Jesus".

I'm not wealthy by any means. My children's mother and I divorced in 2002 as a result of her developing increasingly more uncontrollable systems of Schizophrenia. That cost me $300K out of pocket. I live a frugal life because it affords me financial security and the opportunity to enage in something essential to my emotion and physical health on a very frequent basis.. wakeboarding. I have zero debt and a home on a lake with a 24 yr old Nautique that won't die, plus reasonable amounts of saving both in an out of IRAs. Not that I haven't had bad things happened beyond the stress of the crazy ex. My beloved wife of only 8 years died of pancreatic cancer in 2013 and her daughter recently as I mentioned before.

The reason why I have empathy for poor people comes from a different perspective. I'm not an ambitious person. So I experienced how having natural abilities in math and sciences and a mother who continually proded me to go to college combined with a period in time where the selling out of our country wasn't producing negative effects created a productive and responsible member of society. Not coming from the perspective of someone who had to pull themselves by my bootstraps produced the alternative philosophy that responsible people can be created by ensuring that people of all levels of intellect and even modest levels of inate ambition have a comprehensible path to participation. The path to great wealth is not a necessary requirement. But a path to a modest existance is necesary. Simply pointing out how someone who had nothing made it is faulty reasoning. One, because it is an unknown what factors they had in their favor dispite appearances and two because it's more about the nation as a whole and the statistical improvement that can be changed by our ideology. And our ideology in that regard is not IMO sound.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-05-2016, 1:06 PM Reply   
"The villain isn’t free trade so much as politicians who aren’t willing to DEMAND that other countries give our businesses staffed by middle class workers the same opportunity to sell our products overseas as we give other nations. "

I can't dispute that claim with facts. But I will say that we need to focus on trade as the primary issue in our nation. And stop being manipulated into insignificant by comparison issues, and I know some will hate this, but the importance of Clinton calling Bengazi after the fact a riot based on a reaction to a film or simply terrorism. You can't stand on principal about the significance of a lie alone while then claiming that all politicians lie. All politicians lying level the field and require you to discrimate based on the consequences of the lie. How much more productive would it have been it Fox News had been pressuring the public to focus on trade and the consequences of policy?
Old    deltahoosier            02-05-2016, 2:23 PM Reply   
The ohn 3:16 (along with the other quotes) tell exactly how Christians get to heaven. It is simply a gift. Believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins. (choose to believe or not, that is any individuals right) Ask him to come into your life and have fellowship. It will become clear enough when you do.

I agree. Trade is a huge deal that is swept under the rug. We are exporting dollars, not importing.

I think what I am trying to relay about my story John is this:

In life, it is not the actual events that define your day to day living. It is the story that we tell ourselves and others after the events in our life.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-06-2016, 5:30 AM Reply   
OK thanks for working with me on this Delta. I don't want this to sound like sarcasm because it's not. But pedophile priests, drug overloads, and mass murders all can get eternal life if they believe that Jesus us their lord and savior because it's a gift and we are not missing out on any other special requirements.
Old    deltahoosier            02-09-2016, 11:39 AM Reply   
John. One would think unfortunately yes. With that said, the chances that scum like that would do such a thing as ask Jesus in to their heart would be low.

One of the criminals hanging on the cross with Jesus believed he was who he said he was and Jesus said he would prepare a room for him. I have to believe your statement to be true.

There was a reason Jesus preached to the sinners in society. He seemed to have more contempt for those who lead you believe that their works were the way (money changers at the temple come to mind) than for the thieves and murderers among us.

There are different beliefs in how people may live in the after life (again for those that believe in that) so maybe there are different portions for the not so good people? I wish I had a better answer. Only thing that keeps me sane on that front is A) I try and stay in my lane on that one B) if you do believe in an eternaty, what is a few years of earthly trial?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-09-2016, 3:26 PM Reply   
I just figured those drug overloads in mexico are catholic. And of course the pedophile preists are religious. I'm more inclined to believe that jesus's point was that the way to heaven was though knowing him, as in knowing the way to treat others. So in that sense, if you treat your fellow man with respect, kindness, and empathy then you are on the path to heaven. If you go through life thinking I've got mine and who gives a crap about others then you aren't. I believe the contempt for the money changers was that the establishment was violating those principals. The sinners just needed guidance and the murderers were not fixable and probably were not an effective audience to address.
Old    deltahoosier            02-09-2016, 6:55 PM Reply   
I think you are on the right track. The priests believe in the scales of justice.

Jesus' point was to believe he died for your sins and through your search for fellowship in his word, you will want to treat your fellow man with respect, kindness, and empathy.
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       02-10-2016, 8:15 AM Reply   
John and Delta thank you for an open exchange of ideas without resorting to name calling, bullying, etc etc etc it s very refreshing.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       02-10-2016, 10:30 AM Reply   
hmm.. I was looking for the thread on Trump. good talk tho
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-12-2016, 5:59 PM Reply   
Trump threatens to sue Cruz.

"If TedCruz doesn't clean up his act, stop cheating, & doing negative ads, I have standing to sue him for not being a natural born citizen" - Donald Trump

"How can Ted Cruz be an Evangelical Christian when he lies so much and is so dishonest?" - Donald Trump

"Lying Cruz put out a statement, 'Trump & Rubio are w/Obama on gay marriage.' Cruz is the worst liar, crazy or very dishonest. Perhaps all 3?" - Donald Trump
Old    deltahoosier            02-12-2016, 6:57 PM Reply   
Trump is something else.....
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-21-2016, 12:16 AM Reply   
Trump wins again! In South Carolina no less...

Bush hangs it up after an unbelievable number of millions spent...
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-21-2016, 11:31 AM Reply   
John 3:16 Doesn't mention "Ask him to come into your life and have fellowship", belief seems to be the only requirement. Is that poetic license on your part or is there a directive somewhere else you're not referencing?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-21-2016, 10:02 PM Reply   
gold
Attached Images
 
Old    deltahoosier            02-23-2016, 10:19 AM Reply   
Darren,

You kind of missed the other three verses, however asking Jesus into your heart is minor creative license. It is not perfectly biblical nor is it anit biblical. There is some precedence:

John 14:17

17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. While no, you don't have to specifically ask him into your heart, it does set the tone and mindset for making a transformation in mind.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

Romans 10:9-10 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”

Acts 16:30b-31 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

I really don't want to keep with this. John had some honest questions and I answered as honest as I can. I think it is pretty darn clear what these verses tell you in regards on how to be saved. Regardless, this is about the president race. We can discuss elsewhere if you wish.

Last edited by deltahoosier; 02-23-2016 at 10:28 AM.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-23-2016, 12:03 PM Reply   
Fair enough, a bit too off topic for this thread
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-24-2016, 1:07 AM Reply   
Trump steamrolls through Nevada...
Old    bigdtx            02-24-2016, 7:46 AM Reply   
Ladies and Gentlemen... Your next President:

Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       02-24-2016, 9:44 AM Reply   
wow. even got 46% of the hispanic vote in Nevada. (at least what I heard last night)
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-24-2016, 9:51 AM Reply   
yeah, good grief. Trump is getting a pretty impressive head of steam. And the republican alternatives are all equally terrible.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-24-2016, 10:05 AM Reply   
Well Super Tuesday will tell all! I personally never thought he would get this far. The CBS coverage I have seen said in Nevada more people Voted absentee ballot the all the people that voted in the last primary. The media keeps talking about this "Anger Vote" people that are angry at the government and that Trump has tapped into This voting block.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-24-2016, 10:23 AM Reply   
"And the republican alternatives are all equally terrible. "

At least they are not as bad as the democratic alternative.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-24-2016, 10:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Well Super Tuesday will tell all! I personally never thought he would get this far. The CBS coverage I have seen said in Nevada more people Voted absentee ballot the all the people that voted in the last primary. The media keeps talking about this "Anger Vote" people that are angry at the government and that Trump has tapped into This voting block.
Grant it was a caucus... I don't think absentee balloting was permitted except for military personnel?
https://nvsos.gov/index.aspx?page=1543

I do no for general elections in NV that early voting has taken a ton of heat off of the polling stations on election day.

Quote:
At least they are not as bad as the democratic alternative.
Eye of the beholder, I guess. I don't see how the obama critics who are hard on him for lack of experience can hold Rubio in any higher regard? Likewise Cruz doesn't have much experience either and the experience he does have seems to be geared toward obstruction. IMHO the best candidate in the race is Kasich, and he's pretty much toast at this point.

I'm a died in the wool dem but I'm pretty sure I'd vote for Kasich over any other candidate. Likewise if it's Trump, Cruz or Rubio, I'm certain I'll vote for whoever is running against them.

The interesting break for me is how different Trump and Cruz are. Cruz has gone the traditional route of pandering toward evangelicals, and Trump could care less (which I do actually like about him). Trump is a foul mouthed adulterer and a non-practicing christian. Amazing to me that someone with that unrepentant background can get so far with the base. He really has blown up every single bit of conventional wisdom.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-24-2016, 10:57 AM Reply   
I think a lot of evangelicals know what a lying, hypocritical sleaze Cruz is. They'd prefer Trump over that (and who can blame them).

Kasich would be totally palatable if it weren't for his ridiculously extreme abortion legislation (no exceptions for rape/incest/health of the mother).
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       02-24-2016, 2:02 PM Reply   
I guess that cool headed Republican voters who actually vote GOP because of their fiscally conservative policies will have to decide whether they want to vote with the professional wresting, NASCAR, trailer park crowd, sit this one out, or vote with the Democrats this time around.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-24-2016, 3:04 PM Reply   
ha!
Attached Images
 
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-24-2016, 7:43 PM Reply   
^^^^ sorry I don't doubt for a second people don't like trump, but I gotta pull out the Photo Shop card on that one Wes! Even so it's funny
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-24-2016, 8:09 PM Reply   
haha yeah it's not even that good of a shop
Old     (allzway)      Join Date: Feb 2014       02-25-2016, 7:17 AM Reply   
Trump is an idiot and may not even be a conservative and Clinton is a corrupt as hell life time long weasel.

Vote DeezNutz for the win.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-25-2016, 8:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by allzway View Post
Trump is an idiot and may not even be a conservative and Clinton is a corrupt as hell life time long weasel.

Vote DeezNutz for the win.
Correction Trump is a "Rich" idiot.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-26-2016, 11:08 AM Reply   
Chris Christie endorses Trump - didn't see that one coming! Jockeying for VP?
Old     (ifishok)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-26-2016, 1:27 PM Reply   
Maybe Chris Christie will hug the TRUMP.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-27-2016, 11:02 PM Reply   
This kind of lays it all out there. GOP reaping what it's sown.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/...helmed-by-debt
Old     (alexair)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-28-2016, 2:35 AM Reply   
BTW - Hitler had a lot of supporters around Europe and even in the USA in mid 30 years of previous century
Attached Images
 
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-28-2016, 11:22 AM Reply   
LOL Sam Elliot!
Attached Images
 
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-28-2016, 12:33 PM Reply   
^^^Awesome. So true.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-28-2016, 1:04 PM Reply   
I bet most of the people in this thread that are bashing "The Donald" are or were Hope & Change zombies. Not saying Tump is them man but IMO he is 1000 times better then Bernie or Hillary. And on the Republican side of the Isle you have the Manchurian candidate Marco and Cruze yuck!
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       02-28-2016, 6:08 PM Reply   
If we had elected your buddy Mitt, we would be at war with Iran instead of buying the surplus that is the result of the temporary embargo. Gasoline would be $6 per gallon and the we'd be 8 years into another unwinnable Muslim war with Iran. We'd have another 5 trillion in war debt in addition to whatever was needed to keep us out of a depression assuming that we weren't waist deep in the middle of said depression. Instead we have under 5% unemployement, 1.50 gasoline, and we even managed to stay mostly out of Syria. We won in spite of everyone who voted for the sole purpose of pleasing their church and punishing brown people and gays for being different. We as a country won because you lost. You're going to lose again in the next election. 2010 was a fluke that will never happen again until the GOP goes back to its roots as a party of fiscal responsibility instead of being the lap dogs for big business, the DOD and it's contractors, and Evangelical/Baptist churches. Even big churches such as Catholics and Protestants are abandoning the hate ship.
Old     (wakemetoday)      Join Date: Mar 2006       02-28-2016, 7:38 PM Reply   
The US is living off stimulus that is at some point going to go away. We are not in that great of shape economically. China slowing down and the Saudis wanting to shut down shale producers are the biggest reasons oil is low. Here are some facts going forward in 2016 :http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...just-beginning
Old     (Coolaintcheap)      Join Date: Jan 2016       02-28-2016, 8:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverRider View Post
If we had elected your buddy Mitt, we would be at war with Iran instead of buying the surplus that is the result of the temporary embargo. Gasoline would be $6 per gallon and the we'd be 8 years into another unwinnable Muslim war with Iran. We'd have another 5 trillion in war debt in addition to whatever was needed to keep us out of a depression assuming that we weren't waist deep in the middle of said depression. Instead we have under 5% unemployement, 1.50 gasoline, and we even managed to stay mostly out of Syria. We won in spite of everyone who voted for the sole purpose of pleasing their church and punishing brown people and gays for being different. We as a country won because you lost. You're going to lose again in the next election. 2010 was a fluke that will never happen again until the GOP goes back to its roots as a party of fiscal responsibility instead of being the lap dogs for big business, the DOD and it's contractors, and Evangelical/Baptist churches. Even big churches such as Catholics and Protestants are abandoning the hate ship.

Careful when you say "we as a country won"! I don't consider myself one of the lazy azz folks who don't and won't work!! The free lunch line needs shut down. Gas prices right now are the same as when Obama took office and have fluctuated the same under him. Unemployment at 5% is not an accurate number. It's damn near twice that when you account for part time who want to be full time and the folks who have quit looking all together! The economy is not good right now and the bubble will eventually burst!!!
Old    mojo1127            02-28-2016, 9:30 PM Reply   
to address the above mentioned hitler to donald analogy I have to say i'm disgusted. to compare the mastermind of the mass murder of jews and others to someone who says things you don't like is stiflingly lazy minded and ignorant. It is disrespectful to jews and others murdered, as well as those who died fighting to defeat hitler, all i have to do is replace trumps pic with any other person in the world who became famous quickly with the same caption and you get the same result. just substitute a pic of obama, jennifer lawrence, the pope, cam newton etc.
Old     (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       02-29-2016, 8:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1127 View Post
to address the above mentioned hitler to donald analogy I have to say i'm disgusted. to compare the mastermind of the mass murder of jews and others to someone who says things you don't like is stiflingly lazy minded and ignorant. It is disrespectful to jews and others murdered, as well as those who died fighting to defeat hitler, all i have to do is replace trumps pic with any other person in the world who became famous quickly with the same caption and you get the same result. just substitute a pic of obama, jennifer lawrence, the pope, cam newton etc.
Very well said and I was thinking the same thing
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-29-2016, 8:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1127 View Post
to address the above mentioned hitler to donald analogy I have to say i'm disgusted. to compare the mastermind of the mass murder of jews and others to someone who says things you don't like is stiflingly lazy minded and ignorant.
The guy is quoting Mussolini and says he wants to toughen up libel laws so he can throw people in jail who call out his lies. So comparing him to Hitler isn't that far fetched. Throwing people in jail for criticizing their elected leaders is just what goes on in the ME. So I guess we could compare him to Muslim dictators as well.
Old     (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       02-29-2016, 9:06 AM Reply   
This should be required viewing if you're voting this year! Applause for John Oliver on this one! #makedonalddrumpfagain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       02-29-2016, 9:36 AM Reply   
I dare any of these Donald Drumpf supporters to actually watch that entire video and afterwards explain how they can support the guy knowing that he isn't actually successful, doesn't actually tell it like it is, and isn't actually tough.
Old     (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       02-29-2016, 9:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverRider View Post
I dare any of these Donald Drumpf supporters to actually watch that entire video and afterwards explain how they can support the guy knowing that he isn't actually successful, doesn't actually tell it like it is, and isn't actually tough.
You can never "win" in a take down contest like this. Drumpf supporters are too dumb and narrow-minded to ever be susceptible to something like John Oliver. Rather, its the GOP people on the fence and normal rank-and-file types that need to hear it. They need to know what their party has become.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-29-2016, 9:56 AM Reply   
Comparing Donald to hitler when one of your front runners is a self proclaimed socialist? LMFAO.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-29-2016, 10:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Comparing Donald to hitler when one of your front runners is a self proclaimed socialist? LMFAO.
Thinking you are a follower of Jesus when you are a right wing conservative? LMFAO. We could do this all day. But still not sure how supporting a democratic socialist disqualifies you from recognizing someone who is using xenophobia and demagoguery to solicit a following.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-29-2016, 11:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1127 View Post
to address the above mentioned hitler to donald analogy I have to say i'm disgusted. to compare the mastermind of the mass murder of jews and others to someone who says things you don't like is stiflingly lazy minded and ignorant. It is disrespectful to jews and others murdered, as well as those who died fighting to defeat hitler, all i have to do is replace trumps pic with any other person in the world who became famous quickly with the same caption and you get the same result. just substitute a pic of obama, jennifer lawrence, the pope, cam newton etc.
Mojo, the thing is Hitler didn't say "I'm running on a platform of genocide" when he came on the scene. He just started off nationalistic and a bit antisemitic. Clearly the dude went to crazy town over the ensuing decade.

The thing I wonder about is how many German moderates were like "man this guy is a bit of a moron but he's hilarious with all of the outrageous stuff he says, so let's just wait and see... maybe he won't be so bad once he has to contend with the opposition." I mean I cannnot personally believe that every single German citizen was a wholehearted supporter of the extermination of jews either.

But Hitler/Nazis is definitely a polarizing analogy. What about comparing to a similarly outrageous media tycoon like silvio berlusconi? That to me seems like the much more likely comparison to Trump.... that he'd just end up acting the fool in some epic way.

I like that Trump isn't a brown noser to the religious right. That is absolutely refreshing. I also like that he's clearly human, having cheated on his wives and remarried a couple of times. And as far s I know he's unapologetic about that too.

The huge turn off to me is that (a) there are absolutely no policy proposals other than "it will be awesome," and (b) that in response to requests for details it just turns into base insults. Not very presidential IMHO.
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-29-2016, 11:24 AM Reply   
wait, weren't people comparing Obama to Hitler a little while ago?

Oh politics...
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-29-2016, 11:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
The huge turn off to me is that (a) there are absolutely no policy proposals other than "it will be awesome,"
That's the Art of the Deal.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       02-29-2016, 3:00 PM Reply   
psudy is no doubt one of these guys who doesn't know what fascism is and doesn't know that fascism and socialism are polar opposites.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-29-2016, 3:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fouroheight68 View Post
This should be required viewing if you're voting this year! Applause for John Oliver on this one! #makedonalddrumpfagain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ
That video is pretty funny! Scary, but funny!

300,000,000+ people in the United States and these are the best candidates to lead us?
Old     (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       02-29-2016, 3:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
That video is pretty funny! Scary, but funny!

300,000,000+ people in the United States and these are the best candidates to lead us?
My thoughts exactly. Whether I agree with their views, at least I know what Hillary, Bernie, Rubio, Cruz, Kaisich, stand for. Trump is so scary unpredictable it's no longer funny.
Old    mojo1127            02-29-2016, 3:53 PM Reply   
nazi's were socialists you know.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-29-2016, 4:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverRider View Post
psudy is no doubt one of these guys who doesn't know what fascism is and doesn't know that fascism and socialism are polar opposites.
Economically fascism and socialism are very similar
Old    mojo1127            02-29-2016, 4:05 PM Reply   
I'm just stoked to vote tomorrow. getting rid of our former democrat 37 years in office senator, getting rid of our 2 years and terrible congressman, and voting for cruz, as well as voting on an amendment that says da's have to contribute to their pensions
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       02-29-2016, 4:11 PM Reply   
Nazis were absolutely NOT socialists. They were fascists. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE SAME THING!! Just because socialist is in the name of the Nazi party does not make them socialists. It's kind of like when the plaintiff in the lawsuit that gave corporations the ability to donate unlimited amounts of bribery to political candidates called themselves "Citizens United". Calling themselves citizens did not change the fact that the plaintiff was actually corporations united. You can call yourself whatever you want but a fascist is still a fascist even if he calls himself a socialist.
Old    mojo1127            02-29-2016, 4:22 PM Reply   
you're welcome to change the definition to suit your needs, but you are incorrect. you're going to rant and rave and try to justify your statement, but nothing changes the fact that it is wrong. go watch nietzche and the nazi's. on netflix. oh, and a corporation is a citizen. i run a corporation. should I not have any rights operating that corporation just b/c i chose not to be a sole proprietorship? go smoke some legal colorado weed and chill out. also, out of curiosity, what do you do to earn a living eric?

Last edited by mojo1127; 02-29-2016 at 4:29 PM.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-29-2016, 6:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Economically fascism and socialism are very similar
Well you do have to take a lot of money from people's paychecks to build the world's largest military. Then you have to take more from their paychecks to use it. Then you have to take more from their paychecks to rebuild the nations you invade. But since fascism comes from the govt and govt is basically the socialization of whatever people decides it should do, I can see the correlation.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-29-2016, 6:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1127 View Post
you're welcome to change the definition to suit your needs...
Oh no you can't do that because all knowledge comes from the dictionary.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       02-29-2016, 7:38 PM Reply   
So you are two people? One for yourself and one for the company you run? I run a sole proprietorship. Why is it that you can be two people but because I chose to be a sole proprietor, I am only one? We can both donate as individuals up to the allowed legal limit to any person's campaign. Your corporation, however, can donate an unlimited amount of money to that campaign which opens the door for bribery. By your ignorance of the definitions of socialism and fascism I doubt you make enough money to make a difference but you better believe that the fortune 500 multi-nationals can. How are you enjoying your corporate owned government? Is it everything you hoped it would be? Are the people bribing politicians paying them to do what you would have them do?
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       02-29-2016, 7:43 PM Reply   
per Websters:

Fascism - A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Socialsim - A theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

That is per the dictionary. Try picking one up some time. You might learn something. Are you ready to admit that you aren't as smart as your smugness would suggest?
Old    mojo1127            02-29-2016, 8:26 PM Reply   
per Websters:

Corporation - a large business or organization that under the law has the rights and duties of an individual and follows a specific purpose

The word nazi means national socialist german workers party.

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 8:29 AM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2016 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us